Why in the HELL are the democrat poll numbers so low ?

[Justice Is Comin]

Shub is falling through the floor in his polls. He's almost tied with Nixon. And he should be.


But we're at 25% popularity in the congress. What else do they possibly want us to do? For Christ sake,


* We exposed the cut and paste war.

* We exposed the lies that are daily routine with this group resulting in a 5 count criminal indictment.

* We shut down the senate to prove that the coverup was in place for the never intended second phase investigation.

* We battered the republicans mercilessly on the house and senate floor and stopped their deficit reduction increase bill they were going to jam through.

* We forced them to actually pull their desperate plans to extend the tax cuts for yacht owners.

* We just shamed the republicans into adopting OUR forced amendment adopted almost word for word that requires Shub to report quarterly to congress on Iraq progress, spending and goals to withdraw troops.

* We have blue dog democrats begging to reinstitute paygo.

* We've now caught the oil companies lying before Congress thanks to Frank Lautenberg.


What the hell is wrong with these people ? :banghead:

[still_one]

1. I am NOT sure what questions they are asking

You must also remember that most of the Democrats in Congress rubber stamped ever thing * sent accross. It has only been since * poll numbers have dropped that they have taken a real stand in numbers

In addition, the democrats MUST come out with ideas. Yes, they are coming out with ideas how to get out of Iraq, but we also have a budget deficiet, energy problem, medical crisis, jobs being offshored, pension crisis, etc. and they do not seem to be throwing out many ideas on those issues

I do believe we will see a more dominant role from them though, and feel there poll numbers will go higher

[INdemo]

4. Media manipulation of the polls

This is deception at its best..No Way are these poll numbers accurate.
But as a typical Republican scheme this info is fed to the public over and over again,the public starts to believe.

Check this out: http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm

[Justice Is Comin]

13. But this is a Gestapo

in all three branches. Most of our proposed bills don't even get to mark up because the republicans have the majority leader. All their committees are run like dictators. Lock outs, closed door sessions, 3 AM votes, holding votes open two hours beyond expired time while they strong arm their own members and then re-vote.

All we can possibly do is strategize to defensively defeat their corporate welfare bills or attempts to cover up what they don't want to expose and we're doing that. We're doing an amazing job. Where would America be now without us? We just stopped a huge cover up of Iraq and a 70 billion dollar tax give away to
millionaires.

All I can say is those republicans better enjoy it while they can because next year we will be the majority. And I hope Reid makes them bastards get on their knees and beg like a dog that hasn't eaten in two months.

[mmonk]

2. It might have to do with

inaction in the past few years or most likely, a press that vilifies the party.

[sendero]

3. Because we have a vacuum of leadership...

.. the "leaders" of our party (with notable exceptions) do not LEAD.

"Leading" means coming up with plans and making them happen. To "lead" would be demanding a pullout from Iraq, most Dems can only muster demands for a "timetable".

To "lead" would be to say "we can fix SS by simply removing the earnings cap on FICA deductions" but no one will because some rich asshole might get pissed off.

To "lead" would be to SCREAM TO HIGH HEAVEN that the current account deficits we are running right now are going to CRIPPLE OUR ECONOMY.

Everyone around here likes to claim that the MSM's assertion that the Dems "have no plan" is just more right-wing spin, but IMHO it is a valid criticism.

I'm ready for the flames, bring them :)

[hippiegranny]

5. It's pretty impossible to lead

when you can't even get your ideas out of committee. It's even harder to show the public you even have ideas when the press refuses to give you air time.

I'm not flaming you, but I think the recent weeks have shown an emboldened Dem leadership and I think we need to applaud that and encourage more.

We've been down so long it is easy to be a bunch of Eyores, but we also need to celebrate the victories and never look back, only forward!

[mondo joe]

7. But that's the POINT of leadership - to lead despite difficult

circumstances.

The public is never going to take "I would have been more of a leader but it was too diffficult".

[PuppyBismark]

15. It is not impossible to lead, it just takes lots of work

While we cannot get the congress to accept our ideas, we can certainly formulate them, discuss them, accept them, and then start educating the public and media about them.

At this time, we have not shown the country what we want to do in any cohesive way. It is very easy to point out what is wrong with what is being done, it takes much more work to put together a comprehensive plan for our future, get buy-in from the rest of the party, and then communicate it to the country in such a way that they understand it.

Until this happens, we will continue to just be "slightly better" alternative to what is happening.

I've just recently started reading these forums and have been struck with the observation, that all I see is discussions about some problem or issue, lots of opinions about how bad the issue is. Very little discussion of long-term goals, visions, etc.

So I am not surprised how the general public sees us.

[newyawker99]

53. Hi PuppyBismark!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sendero]

24. I'm not talking about creating legislation..

... obviously we're not in any position to do that.

But we have always been in a position to answer our critics by getting on the talk shows and making "bold" proposals such as those I've outlined.

The idea that the media "freezes out" the Dem message doesn't wash with me. The media freezes out same-old same-old milktoast toe-in-the-water stuff that the current crop of Dems seem to specialize in. One of the reasons people warmed up to Bush was his willingness to boldly follow his vision. The fact that his vision was shit is now dawning on folks, but nonetheless people tend to have more respect for a dynamic loser than a passive anything.

As for victories, well Reid's "stunt" was certain a great one. But really, we doing a lot more of "stand back and watch the Repubs lose" than we are winning and the public recognizes that.

[KittyWampus]

29. You mean Dems can just wave their magic wands and get on talk shows?

[sendero]

57. If they have something interesting...

... to say, yes. Not just any dogcatcher, but certainly any high-profile senator.

[kcwayne]

6. Democrats are being skewered on their lack of courage

Kerry and Edwards and many, many other Democrats climbed all over themselves to be Republican lights during the run up to war. They made political decisions to stand behind the Bush regime and would not speak out against the absurdities bandied about by the Neo-Con cabal. They even attacked Dean for doing so. They were afraid to speak out for fear of being branded "weak on terror, not willing to protect America, yada yada".

Now that the political winds have shifted they have found "courage" to speak out. Republicans counter their criticism with "they had the same intelligence that we did, and they reached the same conclusion that we did to authorize force against Saddam."

And the Democrats response is? "Our intelligence was filtered." Horseshit. When Colin Powell goes before the UN and shows drawings of trucks and balloons and claims this is an imminent threat to the US, and these clowns don't have the courage to say BULLSHIT, when virtually every person on this board knew Colin was bogus, why didn't the Democratic leadership? Given that pitiful failure of leadership, why should anyone trust them now?

[hippiegranny]

10. "why should anyone trust them now?"

because they are the only party that has a chance to turn this ship around. You don't have to trust them as much as you have to be behind them ready to put your own shoulder into the push. Let the pukes eat their own... we need some solidarity for once.

[mondo joe]

18. That makes them a "consolation prize" which explains the low polling.

[earthside]

8. Because they have been gutless.

Democrats may be seen as the default opposition to the radical Republicans.

But, let's face it ... the Democrats in the Congress have been gutless. They've only started fighting back a bit since Bush poll ratings went into the mid-30s. Reminds me of the Democratic elected officials who came out aganst the Vietnam War on Moratorium Day -- what took them so long?

Even now, we've got a Sen. Levin compromising habeus corpus with Lindsay Graham; we see compromises to renew the Patriot Act; we've got Alito skating through the Senate.

Democrats have a long way to go to start being respected and having their approval ratings start going up.

Most of all they've got to oppose this war, stake out principled positions, then STICK WITH IT!

[mattclearing]

9. Democrat is not an adjective. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

19. Thank you. Makes me nuts. Have you noticed NBC using that

all the time now, too?

[mattclearing]

26. No, but if I do, I will wreck a ton.

It is a Tom DeLay slur.

[Sinistrous]

44. This mis-use of "democrat" makes one wonder about

the bona fides of the poster, especially in the context of uncritically promulgating a WSJ "poll".

Sinistrous

[mattclearing]

50. Yeah, me too, but I try not to go there.

Gotta love the dissension this retarded poll caused, though. Makes you wonder...

[sandnsea]

11. I think you got your answer

Until we stop trashing our own, those numbers will never go up.

[KittyWampus]

31. This is from a WSJ poll. Hardly something I'd worry about.

[sandnsea]

34. It's not just this poll

It's alot of polls. And the crap in this thread is the reason why. I don't know how many times some of us have to say you can't win elections by trashing your own party.

[KittyWampus]

37. Polls also indicate people prefer Dems in charge. And I agree DU'ers

just reinforce GOP talking points and damage the Left's viability all too often.

[AlGore-08.com]

52. When you poll on individual dems vs. individual GOPers, GOPers win

McCain out polls HRC and Kerry by a landslide.
Ditto Guiliani.

Out here in Cali, Aahnold's poll numbers are in the toilet - - but he still polls 55% against any named Dems who are expected to try to run for Governor.

It's a very, very real problem. IMNSHO it's a combination of our appalling messaging - - even when we have something to say, our "leaders" can't say it in a coherent way - - and all our strategists consistently fighting a defensive battle (instead of having people who opposed the war from the start lead the opposition to the war, having people who voted for it lead the opposition is a good example), and basing so much strategy on a flawed model: Clinton's victories in 1992 and 1996.

The flaw is that they treat Clinton's electoral victory as decisive, ignoring the fact that (because of Perot getting 18% of the vote nationally, and more in some states) Clinton won most states with less than half the vote - - some states by less than 40%. The argument "the Perot voters would have voted for Clinton if Perot was not in the race" is specious - - if Clinton's campaign swayed them, they would have voted for Clinton. Even with the power of incumbency, and Bob Dole as his competition, Clinton didn't win the majority of the popular vote in 1996 (Perot, although not running, won over 8% of the vote). Clinton did win, but he and his platforms never convinced the majority of Americans to vote for him.

And even if this wasn't the case - - why aren't we planning based on current political events (or even future trends) instead of acting as if it was still 1992?

[dkofos]

12. Was that 25% amongst registered repubs??

[madokie]

14. My take is that the pollster are calling mostly repukes

trying to get a poll that shows * numbers climbing. So no good numbers for the dems.

[kurth]

16. Because Democrats were too chickenshit to stand up

Name one thing that Democrats took a FIRM stand on in the last five years. The right-wing propaganda machine hasn't ignored this fact, and they will use next year in arguing for status quo ("Dems have no ideas, no plans, etc. etc.")

[KittyWampus]

32. Corruption in Iraq, Holding Bush accountable for Iraq, Corruption in NOLA

holding Bush accountable for 9/11. Trying to get breaks for Irar war veterans, trying to get Middle class breaks in the Bankruptcy Bill, trying to get Energy CEO's held accountable.

You don't keep up with actual news much, do you?

[StopThief]

17. You need a "POSITIVE AGENDA". . .

in order to be popular. Don't worry though, Schumer has promised that the they will announce what they stand for in 2006.

[rucky]

20. We the people: "It's Time To CLEAN HOUSE"

incumbents beware: 2006 is going to be a blood bath.

I'm ok with that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. They're still being timid. They don't offer alternatives.

Nipping at the repugs heels and promising more of the same but "not as bad".

[Justice Is Comin]

22. I'm with Hippiegranny

If you had football rules that allowed one team to have the ball and after four downs they just got another four downs, it would be almost impossible to score.

That's what we have now. The only thing we can hope to do is steal the ball and run with it. We're doing that. This point is just not being driven home by the MSM.

If America had no democrats in Washington right now, the public would know the difference in a hurry.

[Tesha]

23. Probably because Dems have made themselves mostly irrelevent.

[KittyWampus]

33. Gee, another DU'er who doesn't actually keep up with the news. Democrats

HAVE been putting up bills and amendments and speaking out.

Where have YOU been?

If the news doesn't trumpet it, does that mean the Democrats never did it?

[Tesha]

40. Curious. The USA PATRIOT Act still is crusing along, Roberts was...

Curious. The USA PATRIOT Act still is crusing along, Roberts was
confirmed, Alito will probably be confirmed, funding for the war
keeps going, the Democrats still haven't learned to simply say
"Bush lied", ...

Jeff Danziger has it right.

Tesha

[skipos]

25. What poll states this? Link?

The only polls I have been saying indicate that most voters would prefer Democrats to be in power right now.

[Justice Is Comin]

35. Here ya go my friend.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113216347138199155-5Z1Ri_om8ITUbV_jD2bx6maguMY_20061116.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

[KittyWampus]

36. Indeed, this is from a WSJ poll that didn't indicate what questions were

asked and how many and who.

[Loonman]

27. No concise and permanent message

That everyone agrees on.

[FlaGranny]

39. There will never be such a thing,

not if this forum is any indication. :-)

[gatorboy]

28. I think it's because of the sheer bulk of Republican scandals going on..

You have Frist, Delay, Bush, Cheney, Libby, Schwarzenegger, the Ohio Governor (Coin Gate)....All getting bad press in the last few months. I don't ever remember when a party had this volume of bad press from so many members at once.
At the moment I think these guys helped put a bad taste in the public's mouth for any politician, regardless of party line...

[oasis]

30. Which poll is showing 25% Dem approval? The GOP must be at 3%.

[Jacobin]

38. Ya really wanna know?

1. Gonna take our guns away.
2. Gonna take our bibles away.
3. Won't let us pray in schools (most people who say that don't even go to church, they're just parroting Rush)
4. Democrats love gays and might let them get married.
5. Democrats will raise your taxes (ignoring that the middle class got screwed with the RW's tax policy)


Plus librul=democrat and Rush, Hannity, and the MSM has spent the last 20 years talking about how libruls are commie, pinko, weak-kneed, government giveaway to 'welfare queen' sissies.

I have lived in the south for decades and the bumpkins parrot those talking points without any reflection or thought whatsoever. I stress that NOT ALL southerners are bumpkins by any stretch. In fact Kerry lost Louisiana by only 6 points, last time around, so there is not that much ground to gain, particularly since Smirk has screwed up so spectacularly

Whoever the dem nominee may be has to fight 20 years of media demonizing of the democratic party.

[Norquist Nemesis]

41. Because "Democrats don't have a plan"

At least that's what the talking heads keep repeating ad nauseum. Day after day, I hear "Where are the Democrats?" Meanwhile, the Republicans are squelching us at every turn and cherry-picking Democratic suggestions that they can claim are their own original ideas. :banghead:

It was hilarious to see Ken Mehlman shuffling out this past Sunday toward the microphones after the Dean/Mehlman appearance on MTP. This was on CSPAN. Now get this...Mehlman tells the newshounds "The American people want change and we're going to give it to them!" Mind you, he gave no details.

My first reaction was :wtf: followed by :rofl:

[Loonman]

42. Well, they're right

Republicans always roll the Dems because they all stick together and say the same things and back each other up. Regarding the Democrats, everybody is doing their own thing, there is no sense of unity or common purpose besides getting Republicans out of office.

It's great to get the Repubs out, but you've got to replace it with something with substance and staying power.

[Justice Is Comin]

43. Yeah it just makes no sense and really pisses me off.

I'll be the first to say we have some pathetic representatives that appear on television. Just pathetic. And for far far too long.

But the public is not comprending their own reactions. We dropped 6 percentage points from August to November in the congresss. And we've been doing nothing those four months but saving America's ass.

C'mon America watch some goddamn C-SPAN.

[kurth]

45. Name ONE (1) bill that Democrats PUBLICLY threatened FILIBUSTER.

Democrats helped Bush go to Iraq. They helped him get his tax cuts for the rich. They helped him get his bankruptcy "reform" bill. They helped him get his price protection for drug companies in the Medicare prescription bill.

Holding Bush accountable after the fact and stating the obvious doesn't count. Press conferences on C-SPAN that nobody watches don't count. "Proposed" bills don't count - any Congress critter can propose a bill.

[Justice Is Comin]

48. When you have 200 pounds of weight

on one side of a teeter totter and 180 pounds on the other, you are never going to get the teeter totter to balance.

I sometimes wonder why they even go through the motions of having a hearing in a committeee. If there are 11 republicans and 9 democrats, it's stupid to even think democrats will get amendment inclusion. The outcome is already decided.

And the filibuster can't be pulled out every other day on the floor.

[kurth]

58. It's a tool available to the minority party in the Senate

And Democrats never - not ONCE - THREATENED to use it - on ANY bill.

Perhaps Daschle was soooo scared of being "obstructionist". Look at what happened to him.

[mrcheerful]

46. Remember the same thing happened

after Water Gate. Seems the vast majority of the people think Dem's could have done more to stop it from going that far. Its just easier to blame all regaurdless of party for wrong doing then looking at their part they played in the mess. After all where were the Dems when GW was playing them for fools.

[tx_dem41]

47. Its simple...we can expose and be AGAINST forever....but until

we offer alternative solutions/policies to problems, we will not advance.

[kentuck]

49. A major reason is the Repub propaganda machine...

and money that is doled out to them.

Just about the only warroom that our Party has is here at DU...

[Toots]

51. Name one single thing Bush* has put forth officially that Democrats have

not allowed to pass. One thing.......Democrats have acquiesced on every single issue since 2001 beginning with Bush* overruling Congress on Presidential Papers act. I am a strong Liberal and I don't hold them as a whole in very high esteem myself. They have allowed the Republicans to run rampant over America and now wonder why no one likes them....

[Justice Is Comin]

54. Uughh.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Everything is on a straight party line vote.

We do NOT have the numbers to stop it.

[mrcheerful]

55. Besides when all else fails

repukes go behind closed doors and pass laws in the middle of the night excluding dems from participating. How can someone vote or do something when everythings kept from them?

[Toots]

56. Not true at all.

A lot of Democrats vboted for Bush"s tax cuts and a lot voted for IWR. Democrats have voted for every single issue Bush* has put forth. Not all Democrats for sure but many voted with the Republicans and still do. In fact I don't believe there has been a single straight party line vote in over five years....