We disrupted John "i'm going to torture" Yoo's speech tonight.

[seg4527]

He came for a debate hosted by the federalist society here at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. The group I'm in on campus, Anti-War Organizing League (AWOL) planned a nice welcome for him, and Socialist Alternative, Babylon Art Collective, Women Against Military Madness and others were there to look on.

This is a repost of what I posted in the Minnesota forum, so sorry if some things don't make a lot of sense. It's been a long day, and I still got homework to do, so I figured I wouldn't write a whole new thing for GD.

Bad at crowed estimates, but I'd say maybe 100-200 people were there. When he started talking, about 1/3 of them held up signs saying things about torture and the war in Iraq.

About 5 minutes into the show, a woman dressed in an orange jumpsuit came down front and center and blew a whistle and started asking John Yoo a question about torture. At this point, another member from AWOL, the campus anti-war group that put this on, dressed up as a soldier came down to drag the "prisoner away". Then the police (4-5 of them were there) came down to escort them out, and the soldier replied "don't worry, i've got it taken care of". As they left, chants of "Shame on Yoo" started coming down from the audience.

John Yoo continues, says that it's okay to torture these people because terrorists targeted innocent civilians on 9/11 and aren't covered by the Geneva Convention, and someone yells "What about Fallujah?" his reply "Nevermind Fallujah", or perhaps it was something else, but whatever it was it was completely dismissive.

About 10 minutes passed, and everybody thought everything was back under control (well, the law school students anyway, not us AWOLers, Socialist Alternativers, Babylon Collective, WAMM, and any other group that helped with this that I'm forgetting) when another AWOLer stood up and started reading a paragraph about torture, the war in Iraq, and US policy on targeting civilians vs. Al-Qaeda policy. Soon after he started he was escorted out. As he was escorted out, another member started reading where the last member had left off, and this continued through three more people, the third one being me.

I have no idea what happened after that, as the policeman told me to leave the building and if he saw me or my buddies there again tonight we'd be arrested.

The response to the disruption was a mix between positive and negative.

So that's my story

[tk2kewl]

1. Great work!!!!

:applause:

Did anyone get video?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. There's a part of me that applauds this kind of stuff,

but, my better part says free speech is supposed to be free, and disrupting a speaker is just plain wrong.

Protests can take many forms, but this kind of stuff is a form of censorship. We have to keep in mind that hateful speech requires the most protection.

[mmonk]

4. and free speech is that of the protesters

disrupting lies from the government.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. Not exactly

Not all speech is free. If your free speech gets in the way of mine, there has to be a compomise. The old canard about no right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater applies here.

You cannot, in any kind of intellectual honesty, believe that you can use the concept of free speech to censor someone.

[calmblueocean]

5. I don't think so.

He had plenty of time to speak. He was just disrupted. Disruptions happen all the time in heated arguments. If he was shouted down the whole time, I'd agree with you.

[niallmac]

11. Did the doctor in Louisiana who yelled 'go "***k yourself"

during Cheneys TV talk break the rule of free speech or was he appropriately practicing free speech?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

25. It was fun to watch, but

I don't believe Cheney was making a speech when the doctor did that.

[EFerrari]

18. I don't have a better part.

:evilgrin:

I think this sh!t needs to be confronted, every time.

[The Stranger]

22. Then go find another place to post.

Woo is an embarrassment and an abomination. He should never have been invited to speak.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

26. That's not how free speech works

Sorry, but you're distorting the meaning of free speech.

And did you really try to tell me to "... go find another place to post"?

Man, you TRULY are fucked up about what free speech means.

[The Stranger]

27. No one is preventing anyone from speaking.

No one is censoring anything. Just because you don't like what someone posts or how someone protests does not mean your right (or that of anyone else) to free speech is somehow being violated.

Come on.

[Don Claybrook]

28. Civil Disobedience

I'd guess that, as an attorney, you know more about civil disobedience than I do. Still, whether a law was broken or not, this sounds like a case of civil disobedience to me, and I'm completely ok with it.

If we wait until the administration and it's hangers-on tell us it's ok to take a turn at the microphone, we'll be waiting forever.

Hey, it's much cleaner than putting their heads on a spike.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. I wouldn't call it "civil disobedience"

Civil disobedience is what Rosa Parks did in refusing to get up and give her bus seat to a white guy.

Civil disobedience is what the people who did the sit-ins at the segregated Southern lunch counters did.

Civil disobedience is refusing to pay your taxes in protest of the war in Vietnam and going to jail for it.

Civil disobedience was burning your draft card - a felony - to protest the war in Vietnam.

It's not about a microphone, and it's not about silencing people. It's about acts in defiance of laws - laws, not speech - that you find immoral, and it's a first step in getting those laws changed. That's civil disobedience. What took place - as recounted in the OP - was nothing but hooliganism, as I see it.

Of course I find what that man has done to be immoral, but consider what was done and then think of this - imagine Cindy Sheehan is invited to make a speech somewhere and a bunch of Ann Coulter wanna-bes do what was done to Yoo.

My firm belief is that all speech must be free, that no one has the right to silence or disrupt anyone's speech, and that there are time-tried and honored ways of protesting and making one's sensibilities known without censoring, which was what happened here.

You don't want it done to Cindy Sheehan, and I don't want it done to anyone. I respect the First Amendment far too much.

[Just Me]

33. The federalist society is akin to the "white guy" cept they destroy,...

,...democracy and threaten the rights and liberties of ALL people.

So, this is a case of authentic civil disobedience IMHO!!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. Well, no

When you write something like that, you betray the reality that you do not understand what free speech means.

It has to be free for all.

If it's not free for someone who speaks words we despise, it will not be free for us.

There is a stellar history of civil disobedience in this country, starting with the New England Transcendentalists. I would urge you to read about civil disobedience.

[Don Claybrook]

36. Hi again

I'm the one who originally postulated the civil disobedience label. And as I suspected, you know more about the subject than I do and you set me straight on that score. So, this wasn't an act of civil disobedience.

Now, I also like to think of myself as a strong supporter of the 1st Amendment, whether for popular speech or unpopular, issues I'm in favor of or opposed to. And I think young Dr. Torture here has the same rights in regard to the 1st as anyone else. But I still fail to see how his rights were infringed upon. He was interrupted for awhile, and then the inevitible happened: the hecklers were removed from the premesis. And Yoo went on with his speech as planned. I respect your knowledge and your experience (and I enjoy reading your posts), but I don't agree that this is a freedom of speech issue. Had he been stopped from speaking altogether, or had he been censured in some way for making the speech, I'd agree with you. But what I got from this is that the voiceless took their chance to have a voice when the time was right.

This might be a case you could win in court, but fortunately for me, it's just reasonable people discussing their opinions, and mine differs from yours. I do believe that Nazis should be able to march in Skokie or wherever, no matter how much I detest them. I believe GW Bush should have the right to call Democrats irresponsible, just as I believe Democrats have the right to make him pay for choosing to say such an idiotic thing. I don't think my understanding of the 1st Amendment is elementary or kneejerk or just for speech I agree with. I just don't see where free speech was violated here.

Thanks.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Funny you should mention Skokie

I was fortunate enough to work on that matter, as my first volunteer job for the ACLU, a brand-new lawyer willing to do anything to help.

Sure, he got to speak. That's not the point, though. The disruption, hey, I enjoy that, as any good leftie would.

But, my point was that it was done without regard for the rights of those who wanted to hear him as well as his right to speak without fear. Those antics are threatening, whether they're meant to be or not. I've been at speeches where the worst of it was waiting outside, and that's scary.

If anyone does anything to disrupt someone's speech, they're violating it. Simply disrupting is violative, and the fact that Dr. Torture got to finish is irrelevant. What if he hadn't? What if he'd been too shaken to go on? Would you hold that it was his personal choice not to continue, and, therefore, not a violation of his free speech?

You also must take into consideration the free speech does not exist in a vacuum. The people who invited them to their gathering also had a right to hear him. The protestors - while I agree completely with what they say - did not have the right to disrupt his speech. Protest it, sure, but not to disrupt it.

Street theater is just that - in the street. The protests belonged outside, and, incidentally, wouldn't make the protesters look like jerks - which is precisely how they look to people who don't like people like us already.

Thanks very much for considering what I wrote, and I'm glad I was able to pass along a bit of information. The civil exchange of ideas and concepts is another of the things that make DU, and its denizens, so very special.

See, this is free speech - and it cannot be disrupted...............

[Just Me]

40. "If anyone does anything to disrupt someone's speech, they're,...

,...violating it."

We are herded like cattle and locked out of discussions sponsored by those who are governing our domestic and national policies: members of the federalist society.

Allowing them to lock us out while simultaneously advocating that we must never disrupt them is like telling Rosa to stay off the bus 'cause their rights are greater than hers.

Silly!!!!

Are you REALLY an OLDLEFTIELAWYER? :shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

42. I understand anger,

but, really, do you feel any better trying to insult me? Probably not.

If you don't understand the concept of free speech and protest, you have a lot to learn. I doubt that calling me names is going to increase your knowledge or make you any more credible.

They're smarter than you are, and they're still outsmarting you because you haven't yet figured out how the game works. That makes me very sad for the youngsters who want to be on our side.

You're getting trounced and looking silly in the process.

Go learn about civil disobedience and political protest. You'll awaken, I'm sure. I hope.

[Just Me]

38. The bus driver had the freedom of both speech and action to reject,...

,...our dear Rosa. She took action against that,...just as these folks did,...and they, like her, were escorted "off the bus".

Let's separate "freedom of speech" protections from civil disobedience against those who are violating our rights and liberties by advocating policies that undermine both.

'kay.

I know you are quite clever. ;) But, I oppose you chastising/discouraging those who are otherwise silenced by a regime that is damaging our country.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. The bus driver had nothing

Where did you get THAT idea? My heavens, stretching the notion of free speech to the bus driver?

You really must understand what "civil disobedience" means before you can go bandying around such a precious term and concept. It's not disrupting the speeches of people you don't like.

I'm not clever. I'm educated, trained, and experienced. And if you don't like what I know, feel free to ignore what I write here. But, making up nonsense like that stuff about the bus driver betrays your basic lack of understanding of how any Constitutional issues function, and that, in turn, makes your words laughable.

Sorry, but you cannot confuse the speaker with the concept.

Read about Skokie and the ACLU, then read about the Berrigan Brothers and the Catonsville 9 (or was it 7?). Read about Martin Luther King, Jr., and read about Gandhi. Read the New England Transcendentalists for a splendid experience, and see the American origins of the concept.

You will have a wonderful time reading about how all this came about. It is, after all, the history of the very country we all love and want to protect.

[hwmnbn]

3. Far out!......

College kids can be wonderful for their ingenuity. It's great to see the anti-war movement percolate in that crowd.

Thanks for your action and report. Now go do your homework!

[bpilgrim]

6. applause! very well done!!!

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Personally, I am very proud of you!

You are a true patriot and I am honored to be in your presence!

[burythehatchet]

8. good work

that guy is a complete douchebag

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. He's also responsible for the "Yoo Memo," which is a basis for the Bush

Administration to claim that ONLY the president has the power to declare war or have any power whatsoever over the military. Full of lies and blatantly unconstitutional - but they rely on it.

more info and link in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4790112&mesg_id=4790660

[lostnfound]

10. Yoo !! Uggh.

I am still irritated that our local paper (and many others) published op-eds by the guy about the torture issue without identifying him as being in the middle of it! Instead he was presented simply as a law professor giving an independent view on it.

What a disgusting man.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

12. John "i'm going to torture" Yoo

:spray:

[Swamp Rat]

13. Yaay!!! +1 for the Humans!

:applause:

[The Magistrate]

14. Good For You, Sir, And For Your Compatriots

This Yoo fellow is a disgraceful wretch, who well deserves the hounding.

[Stockholm]

15. Young man - stand and be recognized

for your courage.

Nominated

[xchrom]

16. ok -- you rock!

i can't believe nobody else said that.

:yourock:

[EFerrari]

17. Well done! Thank you!

:applause::applause::applause:

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Take a bow! *High Five*

:thumbsup: Good job! :woohoo:

[kliljedahl]

20. Good job

Congratulations

[chat_noir]

21. We salute Yoo, Mr. Torture

Let’s welcome the former deputy assistant attorney general of the United States.


Today we salute you, Mr. “The CIA is Too Good for the Geneva Convention Man.” Welcome to the University. While the president of the United States claims the U.S. military does not engage in torture practices, nor would he ever authorize their use, you managed to write legal briefs trying to claim that the CIA is, in fact, legally exempt from those restrictions. And even though our country condemns all other nations that use such interrogation methods, you apparently think they’re OK as long as we’re the one using them.
The real man of genius here, the “Yoo” being saluted, is none other than John Yoo, the former deputy assistant attorney general and author of documents sometimes referred to as the “torture memos,” which are being used to argue that the CIA should be exempt from measures prohibiting the United States from torturing overseas detainees. Yoo, who now teaches at the University of California-Berkeley, will be visiting the Law School this evening for a debate hosted by the school’s Federalist Society of Law and Public Policy Studies, and several groups are not happy he is coming to town.

At 7 p.m. at the Law School, the Babylon Collective, a nonprofit organization aiming to use visual and performing arts to effect social change, will hold a street theater performance to protest Yoo’s visit and the memos he wrote promoting torture practices. Such performances are a unique way of expressing a popular opinion: Torture is not acceptable in any way, shape or form, and President George W. Bush should be ashamed he is standing by while his underlings fight for what is truly wrong.

So crack open a nice cold bottle of Evian bottled water, Mr. “It’s Not My Fault, I Just Wrote the Legal Briefs,” and remember what makes this country great: the freedom and prosperity that let you buy that overpriced water, and the knowledge that that freedom was won not through torturing our enemies, but through setting an example of independence and freedom for the whole world.


http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2005/11/16/66163


Don't forget to rate this editorial!

[UTUSN]

23. Thank You. John YOO Did the Real Dirty Work for Beto GONZALES n/t

[progressoid]

24. Bleeech! The Federalist society and John Yoo in one room. Disgusting.

I salute your gastro-intestinal fortitude.

[Just Me]

29. Wow!!! What a well-organized protest against Yoo's policies!!!

Y'all did GREAT!!! Wish I could've witnessed THAT!!!!

:hi:

[seg4527]

32. Just for the record, I forgot to mention this

There was a specific place and time for Q and A. You had to fill out a piece of paper and hand it in to a person from the Federalist Society, and then he was going to pick some questions to read.

So, as you can see, this was the only real way to create a dialogue. The person he was "debating" was actually a former CIA guy and, from what I hear, disagreed hardly at all from what Yoo said. Although I had already been forced to leave the buidling at that point.

[Solly Mack]

34. Excellent!!!! You rock!!!

Thank you so much!!!!

[oregonindy]

39. All of us should be doing stuff like this. disrupt the machinery of lies

[Mr_Spock]

43. Never heard of this John Yoo character, but he sounds like a murderer...

You did well to inform him that we don't condone torture and killing as a matter of policy. I wonder why Republicans are obsessed with killing and torturing? Is that a reflection of their "Christian values"? One has to wonder. Gov. Romney (R-Mormonutbag) in Mass lost another attempt at reinstating the death penalty yesterday. He says he'll keep trying and that it will pass after another horrific killing. We rarely have those in this liberal area, but I'm sure he'll hire someone to get to it so he can get to the business of killing. Ah, the Romans...

[TheGunslinger]

44. NBC just had Yoo on as the pro-torture aspect of a dual-interview

DISGUSTING PRICK!!!