THIS IS A BOMBSHELL !!......Look what I found. .... EVERYBODY READ THIS.

[Justice Is Comin]

I was wrong. Bush DID limit access. Here's the undeniable proof.



THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
PRESS BRIEFING BY ARI FLEISCHER

October 9, 2001

<...>

Q: Can you tell us why the President decided to issue the memo to the key Cabinet officials on secrecy? What prompted it, what individual leak, if you will?

MR FLEISCHER: Let me read to you from the memo in question, which is a memo that the President has sent to his members of the Cabinet who would routinely brief Capitol Hill about matters relating to the military or relating to intelligence. And reading from that memo directly it states that, this administration will continue to work to inform the leadership of the Congress about the course of and important developments in our military, intelligence and law enforcement operations. At the same time, we have an obligation to protect military operational security, intelligence sources and methods, and sensitive law enforcement investigations.

And I think that says it all about the memo. It's an effort to make certain that Congress has the information that it needs, while making certain that nobody is put in a position where they inadvertently could give any information that could harm anybody's life, as a very sensitive military campaign is underway.

Q: Can you tell us what prompted the memo?

MR FLEISCHER: It's an overall concern to make certain that information is protected, to save lives, and not put anybody in danger.

Q: Was there -- in general, but was there not a specific incident?

MR FLEISCHER: Well, rather than focus on any specific incident, it's a reflection of the President's ongoing concern to make certain that nothing classified is released inadvertently that could put anybody's life in danger. Really, what's changed here since routine notification would go up to Capitol Hill, are we are at war. And the price of an error is now too high. And the President wants to make certain that all people in government are protected, so that nobody can make any mistakes and put anybody else's life in danger.

Q: Well, let me just follow up one more time. Was there not at least one incident where the President was upset by what was said by a member of the Congress who had received a classified briefing?

MR FLEISCHER: Rather than harken back to any, if there was, one event, I think it's best just to leave it as the President's overall concern. This is something you've heard the Secretary of Defense talk about very publicly as well. It's an ongoing concern from the administration to make certain that nothing classified is inadvertently released that could put somebody's life in danger.

Q: Has the administration opened an inquiry?

Q: Does the President believe that Congress --

MR FLEISCHER: No, the answer on that is no.

Q: What was her question?

Q: There's no inquiry on any leaks that might have already occurred?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct.

Q: Does the President believe that Congress in particular is at risk for leaking classified information?

MR FLEISCHER: Well, as you know, these warnings have gone out to everybody. This is what we in the White House staff have been instructed, by the President, this is information Secretary Rumsfeld has discussed it about his employees and others in government. This applies to anybody who could possibly have classified information.

The memo itself, of course, is directed at Congress. But you've heard this in other ways about other government agencies, including our own White House.

Q: So, does he believe that the Congress is not being well managed when it comes to maintaining the secrecy of classified information?

MR FLEISCHER: It's a reflection of the fact that our nation is now at war, and the rules have changed. It's a reflection of the reality that disclosure of information in a time of war is far different from an inadvertent disclosure at a time of peace. It could literally mean the loss of lives of people who are embarking on missions.

Q: But, Ari, the last paragraph of that memo says the President notified the leaders of the Congress of that decision. Those conversations have been described as angry, animated, and that the President did cite a specific thing he was very upset about. Do you dispute that?

MR FLEISCHER: As I indicated, rather than focus on any one event that may or may not have taken place, the President's concern is broad. That doesn't mean it wasn't specific, but his concern is also broad.

Q: Ari, does the release of information that there is certainty within intelligence communities of another terrorist attack, does that constitute putting people's lives in danger, or is that public information?

MR FLEISCHER: You know, I'm not going to go down any potential line of things that may or may not be classified, if that's what you're asking me to do. But I think again, the memo speaks for itself.

Q: Is that the kind of information you think should be classified?

MR FLEISCHER: I don't discuss classifications. I don't make the decisions about what information gets classified.

<...>

Q: Ari, can I go back to the other topic? The congressional leaders who are allowed to be briefed, are they being instructed not to share information with their colleagues on the Hill?

MR FLEISCHER: They've been clearly told about the importance of keeping information that is sensitive, treating it in a manner so it is not released.

Q: So that he's not sharing it with other members of Congress? Are they specifically being told that? Is it being limited to --

MR FLEISCHER: Keith, I haven't heard every conversation that's been had with every leader, so I can't answer that fully.

Q: So, Ari, what is the response from some members of Congress who feel that they're not being fully consulted, that they're being left out of the loop by this?

MR FLEISCHER: Well, as the memo makes very plain, it still is important to share information with the Congress, to discuss matters with the Congress, and that still will be done. The question is, discussion of any information that is of such a classified nature or is classified, that it would not be germane to members who are not listed as the Speaker, the Minority Leader, the Majority Leader or the chair of the ranking members of the Intelligence Committee.

Q: So this memo does have the effect of dramatically limiting the number of eyes, if you will, on Capitol Hill that can see this information?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct.

Q: What I was getting at really is that you're not -- just to follow on that, you're really not briefing Congress, you're basically just briefing about five or six select members of Congress.

MR FLEISCHER: It's quite clear, it's briefing the leaders of Congress.

Q: Ari, there are other members of Congress, certainly, who are cleared to receive classified information: the Chairman of the Foreign Relations and International Affairs Committee --

MR FLEISCHER: It's not a question of cleared to receive information, this is a question about how the administration is going to work with Congress in the dissemination of information that's classified.

Q: Why wouldn't, for example, the leader -- the Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, ranking member -- Armed Services ranking member -- why wouldn't they be able to receive this information? Is there some --

MR FLEISCHER: Because the President has made the determination that at a time of war like this, he wants to make certain that every step is taken so that there cannot be a loss of life as a result of an inadvertent release of information. And therefore, the President has decided that he wants to make certain that the agencies that report to him provide information in a fashion that is a smaller circle to members of Congress.

Q: Just to follow up, how can those committees and those committee chairmen do their proper oversight if they don't get the information?

MR FLEISCHER: I think they are able to do so, and that's why the information is shared with the Intelligence Committee, as well as the leadership.

Q: But Armed Services and Foreign Relations are directly responsible for oversight of armed services and foreign relations. How can they be of help if they don't have the information?

MR FLEISCHER: Because not every aspect of their job deals with having immediate information that of classified nature about what may be happening on a military operation on an operational sense.

Q: But Ari, connect the dots. A larger circle was being briefed initially. And now you've restricted it to the four leaders plus the chairmen and ranking members of the Intelligence Committee.

MR FLEISCHER: Correct. Exactly right.

Q: Was the assessment made that in the case of the Foreign Relations or the International Relations Committee and the Armed Services Committee that the chairmen and the ranking members or the other members could not be trusted?

MR FLEISCHER: John, it's not a question of people not being trusted, as you put it.

Q: Then why pull back?

MR FLEISCHER: It's a question of the determination made by the President that in a time of war, the usual rules do not apply, and that the President is going to err on the side of protecting lives, so that inadvertent information -- inadvertent release of information cannot occur.

Q: I understand that point completely, but they were being briefed at the beginning.

MR FLEISCHER: And that requires necessarily a tightening of the circle about who has access to all this information that I described. It does not mean that members of Congress will not continue to receive information; they will continue to receive information. And the President makes that perfectly plain in his memo to the agencies when he said that we will continue to inform the leadership in our critical military intelligence law enforcement operations.

But I remind you, even in peacetime, not every member of Congress had access to every bit of classified information.

Q: Yes, but you did pull back; that was John's point.

Q: Because the President was not happy --

MR FLEISCHER: Absolutely. I acknowledge it. It's plain as the memo reads --

Q: You pulled back because the President was not happy?

MR FLEISCHER: -- that the circle has been diminished, because the President is going to make certain that every step is taken to protect lives from the inadvertent release of information. That's correct.

Q: And the upshot of it is that the conduct of the war policy and its oversight is now being done by the Executive Branch and six members of Congress?

MR FLEISCHER: The information-sharing on the matters that are described in this memo will be available to six members of Congress -- actually, it's eight.

Q: Sorry -- the congressional role of its contribution to the war policy and its oversight is now going to have to fall into the hands of those eight people?

MR FLEISCHER: I think the President is very satisfied with the sharing of information and the decision he's made.

Q: Does this cover information about the possibility of threats of attacks on American soil, or is it just about overseas military?

MR FLEISCHER: It's information that is classified in nature. I can read it to you again, if you want -- consistent with --

Q: Any classified information?

MR FLEISCHER: Let me read -- I think you have copies of the memo, so you can take a look and read it for yourself. But the memo makes clear it's classified information.

Q: It seems to be any classified information. So that's anything that the White House decides should be classified and they don't want to share with Congress.

MR FLEISCHER: The classification decisions are made by the appropriate intelligence officials. And, again, the President is going to make certain that this information is provided to the Congress so the people who need to know it will have full ability to have it, and he wants to make certain that the circle is diminished, so that nothing inadvertent can happen.

Q: Isn't it a huge shift of power to the Executive Branch?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct -- that's what the President has decided.

Q: Ari, is there any precedent -- did the White House Counsel's Office -- is there any precedent for limiting the circle in wartime to this small, in terms of briefing Congress?

MR FLEISCHER: I would have to check with some historians. I can't tell you of the top of my head.

Q: Gulf War, World War II -- any time when so few members of the elected leadership of this representative government have been informed of the operations of the Executive Branch?

MR FLEISCHER: I very much appreciate your desire to have a large group as possible of people who have this information, but I've said about all I'm going to say on this topic. The President has done this for a reason, the President stands by it, and it's the right thing to do, in the President's opinion. And that's why he's done it. He is aware of the types of questions you're going to ask about this, but the President has done it deliberately, because this is a time of war and in his judgment, this is the best way to save lives and protect lives of the people that he is putting in harm's way in the course of this war.

Yes, this is a determined decision by the President.

Q: It's very hard to argue with the idea of saving lives, but there's another principle at work here as well, as you're well aware. And that is the oversight that is usually provided by Congress.

MR FLEISCHER: I think we have exhausted this topic. This is about a half an hour briefing. We can spend all half hour on it if you like. I'll be here for that.

<...>

Q: You use the phrase so often, this is a time of war. Has there been a formal declaration of war? Is it necessary? How much further would American society change if there was a formal declaration?

MR FLEISCHER: There has not been, and I can't speculate about how much further it would change.

<...>

Q: Going back to this letter. Apparently, a lot of these congressional leaders, or the congressional persons, were given this information because many people in the White House and in the Cabinet felt that they had some kind of critical input. Now that the circle has been closed, the input has been stifled somewhat. Do you think that it could hurt the mission that you're trying to accomplish right now by closing the circle?

MR FLEISCHER: The President does not think that.

Q: But I know you say it's going to -- this inadvertent information that's going out and you want to prevent the loss of life, but those congress persons that were told in the beginning, they were told for a reason, for their critical input.

MR FLEISCHER: And they're still being told. The leadership is still being told. Q: But it was other than those eight, prior to.

MR FLEISCHER: You know, I'm not aware of exactly how widespread briefings were prior to it. But the President's memo speaks for itself on this topic and I think we've covered it extensively at the beginning of the briefing.

THE PRESS: Thank you.

[autorank]

1. A little more information for those of use who had too much coffee today.

:shrug:

[gordontron]

7. this bit is the section I found most revealing:

"Q: It seems to be any classified information. So that's anything that the White House decides should be classified and they don't want to share with Congress.

MR FLEISCHER: The classification decisions are made by the appropriate intelligence officials. And, again, the President is going to make certain that this information is provided to the Congress so the people who need to know it will have full ability to have it, and he wants to make certain that the circle is diminished, so that nothing inadvertent can happen.

Q: Isn't it a huge shift of power to the Executive Branch?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct -- that's what the President has decided."


nice find btw

[Bluebear]

10. Excellent find.

And thanks, that does seem to be the most revealing---and most frightening---part.

[autorank]

16. "..that's what the President has decided."

And of course, he gets to make all the decisions. Why? Because he's the President. Frightening. Thanks!

& Compliments to Justis in Comin -- Welcome to DU!!!

[Tin Man]

44. BushCorp ensnared in its own tangled wed

The truth will ultimately emerge, that much is certain.

The battlefront is quickly becoming the SPEED at which the WHIG conspiracy is revealed, with an eye toward the midterm elections. This is exactly the reason that Scooter Libby has pled innocent - the Pukes understand that they can best postpone the opening of this particular "window" into the conspiracy by dragging it into a court of law, in which they can better slow/control the rate of revelations through legal wranglings and delay tactics.

As we witnessed in the recent gains in VA and NJ, the momentum is shifting our way. If we can keep this ball rolling, keep educating the media, there's a real opportunity to retake the House and/or Senate in 2006. Only with Democratic control will we have REAL investigations and a REAL opportunity for the impeachment that this president so justly deserves.

It all hinges on how quickly events unfold prior to 2006. The Pukes understand that also. Let's keep the pressure up!

[gordontron]

81. who wants to place bets that the week before the election the

threat level is raised dramatically?

lets get back this congress and kick bush where it hurts..in the truth

[linazelle]

76. This is also very revealing....

"So this memo does have the effect of dramatically limiting the number of eyes, if you will, on Capitol Hill that can see this information?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct."

[Carolab]

8. I think this is it.

"The question is, discussion of any information that is of such a classified nature or is classified, that it would not be germane to members who are not listed as the Speaker, the Minority Leader, the Majority Leader or the chair of the ranking members of the Intelligence Committee.

The congressional role of its contribution to the war policy and its oversight is now going to have to fall into the hands of those eight people."

[autorank]

14. Oh my, I'm sorry Iasked;) What a crew to run the shop.

Thanks!

[Bluebear]

2. "that's what the President has decided"

Shiver.

[mike_c]

3. nice catch....

eom

[Rainscents]

4. Very good catch!!!

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. nominated and will be sending ot one of my senators

they can use it

[tulsakatz]

6. the briefing said:

"But I remind you, even in peacetime, not every member of Congress had access to every bit of classified information."



Which means Bush is wrong when he says Congress had the same info as he did before the war.

We all (probably) knew they didn't have the same info but it's good to see it in print.

[fooj]

21. He's been lying his entire life...

looks like it's coming back to bite his treasonous ass!:kick:

Peace.

[EuroObserver]

36. Yes yes. But there is, legally, NO WAR

Congressional oversight is your business, of course. From an international perspective I appreciated this (half-assed) clarification:

<snip>

Q: You use the phrase so often, this is a time of war. Has there been a formal declaration of war? Is it necessary? How much further would American society change if there was a formal declaration?

MR FLEISCHER: There has not been, and I can't speculate about how much further it would change.

</snip>

Any answers to the second question: "Is it (a formal declaration of war) necessary?"

[Pam-Moby]

9. Do you have a link?

[applegrove]

11. Where is the link?

[Luminous Animal]

13. Link

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011009-1.html

[applegrove]

17. Thank you. You cannot land a bombshell without a link - there are

too many dupes out there.

[Carolab]

12. Much more on this from Raw Story right here.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/HowSenate_Intelligence_chairman_fixed_intelligence_and_diverted_blame_fromWhite_House__0811.html

Senate Intelligence chairman quietly 'fixed' intelligence, and diverted blame from White House over Iraq
Larisa Alexandrovna


Shortly after the 9/11 attacks, President George W. Bush issued an order to the Central Intelligence Agency, Department of Defense, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the State Department, and his cabinet members that severely curtailed intelligence oversight by restricting classified information to just eight members of Congress.

"The only Members of Congress whom you or your expressly designated officers may brief regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information," he writes, "are the Speaker of the House, the House Minority Leader, the Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, and the Chairs and Ranking Members of the Intelligence Committees in the House and Senate."

The order is aimed at protecting "military security" and "sensitive law enforcement."

But what was said to be an effort to protect the United States became a tool by which the Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Pat Roberts (R-KS) ensured there was no serious investigation into how the administration fixed the intelligence that took the United States to war in Iraq or the fabricated documents used as evidence to do so.

{snip}

[pnorman]

15. Great find! That ties in with this:

10/5/01: Bush Pulls Security Clearances From 92 Senators

�We can�t have leaks of classified information. It�s not in our nation�s interest.�E- President George W. Bush, 10/9/01

President Bush�s defiant statement came in the immediate weeks following 9/11, as the administration clamped down on the information it provided to Congress. President Bush issued an order limiting access to classified intelligence only to 8 members of Congress �Ethe Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, Senate Majority Leader, Senate Minority Leader, and chairmen and ranking members of the House and Senate intelligence committees.

What precipitated this course of action?

Gannett News Service reported on 10/1/01 that Bush was restricting information because, �The Washington Post reported last week that various lawmakers had been told there would be more terrorist attacks if the United States retaliated.�E
Here�s what the Washington Post reported:

Asked whether more terrorist attacks are inevitable if the United States retaliates, Shelby said, �You can bet on that.�EU.S. intelligence officials have told members of Congress there is a high probability that terrorists associated with Osama bin Laden will try to launch another major attack on U.S. targets here or abroad.

So at this slightest whiff of evidence that information was being leaked, President Bush pulled classified intelligence access for 92 senators. There was no ongoing criminal investigation nor was there evidence that all the members who had their access limited had leaked information. And now he refuses to hold Karl Rove and Scooter Libby to anywhere near the same standard, despite confirmation of their involvement in the leak of an undercover CIA agent�s identity.

Bush's intel order

http://www.thinkprogress.org/2005/07/26/bush-pulls-security/

pnorman

[johnnydrama]

19. so who were the following

Not sure if they're still the same.

Who were the following:

House Minority Leader
Senate Minority Leader
ranking Dems on the house and senate intelligence agencies

Because in reality, these are the only people that the Republicans can try to claim had "the same intelligence" as the White House, and that doesn't get by the fact that the intelligence probably worked it's way down through the white house first.

For all those leaders knew, there was 1 report that said something about Iraq and nuclear capabilities, and 50 reports that said that they had no possible capabilities.

[liberaltrucker]

18. Saved to read in the morning

Very good find.

[Old and In the Way]

20. Served 2 purposes......shut down intel on th 9/11 attack and prepare the

groundwork for their bogus intel on Iraq WMD. Far easier to feed fabricated intel to 8 people....who are they going to challenge?

"Live would be easier if I was dictator"....I hope he gets to beg for his foriveness from the American people before final judgement is served on him.

[Hissyspit]

22. I remember all this now from at the time. But what bothers me...

is that I had forgotten all this, at least the details. It is so hard to keep up with all the shit these shits have pulled over the past five years. Thanks for finding it.

[chat_noir]

23. Media blast, anyone?

Q: You pulled back because the President was not happy?

MR FLEISCHER: -- that the circle has been diminished, because the President is going to make certain that every step is taken to protect lives from the inadvertent release of information. That's correct.

Q: And the upshot of it is that the conduct of the war policy and its oversight is now being done by the Executive Branch and six members of Congress?

MR FLEISCHER: The information-sharing on the matters that are described in this memo will be available to six members of Congress -- actually, it's eight.

Q: Sorry -- the congressional role of its contribution to the war policy and its oversight is now going to have to fall into the hands of those eight people?

MR FLEISCHER: I think the President is very satisfied with the sharing of information and the decision he's made.


We'd better get some screen shots of this briefing before it disappears or history rewritten again.

[Catchawave]

24. MSNBC/Newsweek article.....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6732484/site/newsweek/

"2001 Memo Reveals Push for Broader Presidential Powers
A Justice Department lawyer may have been laying the groundwork for the Iraq invasion long before it was discussed publicly by the White House"

"Dec. 18 - Just two weeks after the September 11 attacks, a secret memo to White House counsel Alberto Gonzales� office concluded that President Bush had the power to deploy military force �preemptively� against any terrorist groups or countries that supported them�regardless of whether they had any connection to the attacks on the World Trade Towers or the Pentagon.

"The memo, written by Justice Department lawyer John Yoo, argues that there are effectively �no limits� on the president�s authority to wage war�a sweeping assertion of executive power that some constitutional scholars say goes considerably beyond any that had previously been articulated by the department.....cont'd"

[applegrove]

25. See later thread. This thread has been updated.

[QuettaKid]

26. Kicked and nominated....nt.

.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. I just sent this to Durbin and Obama.

I told them to get a video copy of the press briefing and play in on the floor of the Senate...just to "remind" the repuke Senators who REALLY had access to their cherry-picked intelligence.

This press briefing should be played all over the airwaves! Talk about proving the idiot-in-chief's a LIAR!!!

[applegrove]

28. Is it verified?

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. Verified? It's from the WH web site

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011009-1.html#President-Memo

[applegrove]

43. I just read it. Sounds bad. We will know more if the bloggers get

ahold of it and research it. Someone suggested the policy was later recinded on another thread. Then that thread was shut down.

I wait till someone else has done background. I'm sure a discussion like this took place. I'm sure all the characters in the WH had all sorts of War Dreams & powers to cook up - they had been dreaming of that for years.. no?

I need context. Shows intent - but what happened the next day et all.

I guess I'll tune in tomorrow.

[lonestarnot]

29. October 9, 2001 and I was outraged!

Remember this, going to work, pissed like a hornet on a mission. That Ari poison air message, "because the bushitler has decided...blah blah blah" and there you have it .... again.

[Justice Is Comin]

31. I subsequently found this.

It appears Bush may have quickly got the message by the angry congressmen and pulled back his order the very next day. This is a very obscure press conference the next day.

I found it by continuing to dig for more information after my original post. I think it's very important that we strive for getting the truth at DU so I'm posting this. Make your own decision as to what this press conference tells you.

No matter what, he looks like an idiot either way.





THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
PRESS BRIEFING BY ARI FLEISCHER

October 10, 2001

<...>

Q: Yesterday, the President made clear his point about leaks. He's had breakfast today with congressional leaders. Is the President willing to go from eight to a higher number of congressmen and senators getting the information? And, if so, when would this occur?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, let me try to bring you up to speed on where we are. That issue did come up in the meeting with the four congressional leaders. And I think it's fair to say, message received. There's no doubt about it that the importance of keeping classified information classified has been stressed, and the President hopes that it will be closely, exactly adhered to.

Having said that, the President did say this morning that he does want to make certain that the members of the Armed Services Committee, for example, can be briefed by Secretary Rumsfeld; that the members of the Foreign Relations Committees can be briefed by Secretary Powell, et cetera. It's important that members of Congress have information that they need to do their proper oversight activities; while at the same time, the President will continue to remind members of Congress about the importance of keeping classified information classified.

Q: On the same subject, he had the two highest-ranking members of both the Houses on the Intelligence Committee. Does this mean the same thing applies to Armed Forces and --

MR. FLEISCHER: As I just indicated, there will be briefings by the Secretary of Defense to members of the Armed Forces Committees.

Q: I mean, the number of people who can receive this information. He had the ranking Democrat, ranking Republican on each committee of Intelligence. Does this mean the same rule will apply to Foreign Relations and to Armed Forces?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, I think when Secretary Rumsfeld goes up, he will be talking to all members of the committees.

Q: When the members emerged, their perception was that the administration was going to be much more careful in what information it shared; that if it was classified or sensitive, they would share that information if it was past-tense information, what happened earlier today or yesterday. And the President made clear he would be much more reluctant because he doesn't trust them to share "this is what's going to happen tomorrow" information. Is that fair?

MR. FLEISCHER: I can't speak about past tense; I haven't heard that. But I can suggest to you that secrets will be kept secret. And the President knows that he will work with the Congress so that objective can be achieved. And he was satisfied with the meeting this morning; the leaders were satisfied with the meeting this morning. So I think it's fair to say that from the members' point of view, and the President's, this issue has been addressed. And I hope there is a new sense of awareness throughout the government about the importance of keeping information classified.

Q: Ari, is there also a new memo going out from the President -- the one he sent out was fairly stern and very specific --

MR. FLEISCHER: No, there is no memo forthcoming.

Q: Wait. That one shared very specifically this policy will be in effect until you are told by me that it is not.

MR. FLEISCHER: I think he actually wrote in there "until further notice." And the President met this morning with the four leaders of Congress and gave them some notice.

Q: That memo was written to Treasury, State, Central Intelligence, FBI, all --

MR. FLEISCHER: The President has many means of communicating with the people who work for him.

Q: So should we take from that then that the full select committees on intelligence will now be briefed?

MR. FLEISCHER: The briefings will proceed as I just indicated in performance with the President's wishes and as he expressed to the members this morning at the meeting.

Q: Does that mean the full select committees on intelligence?

MR. FLEISCHER: I think just watch events unfold on the Hill and you will see. And as I indicated this morning, the leaders seemed to be satisfied.

<...>

Q: To follow on Jim's question, is it fair to say now that the President has served notice that this policy is no longer in effect, or will there be some classified information that will be provided only to the eight members of Congress that he mentioned?

MR. FLEISCHER: I think it's fair to say that the message the President said about the importance of keeping classified information classified remains fully in effect; that the message on the bottom of the memo about further notice -- I would draw your attention to the subsequent statements made by the President.

Q: What happens if somebody does leak after this, if Congress has been put on notice? What happens now --

MR. FLEISCHER: I'm not going to deal with hypotheticals. I'll just hope it doesn't happen.

<...>

Q: Ari, all of these bills do require a lot of bipartisan work, and that's been an important goal of the President, especially since September. But there was a feeling, especially yesterday, on Capitol Hill that the release of the memo and the tightening of information with Congress had created a lot of ill will, and some people saying, this is ricocheting all over the place, it's busting unity that's been on the Hill, even though it might have been fraying before yesterday. But does the White House have some concern that the impact of that memo might have poisoned the waters a little bit, by the time --

MR. FLEISCHER: Jean, I think the members of Congress know that they have many important responsibilities and that they will work with the White House, work Democrats with Republicans, Republicans with Democrats, on behalf of those responsibilities. That includes taking action so the domestic agenda can move forward, so aviation security can pass, so counterterrorism activities legislation can pass. And I think members understand that.

I think members also are pained by what happened. I think they recognize that they put the President in a difficult spot. Imagine if the case had been that as a result of a CIA briefing to a committee, information was revealed that was classified and the President didn't care or said nothing. I think that also would suggest that classified information is not being handled in a manner that it should be because of the serious nature of classified information. And many members on the Hill are very concerned about the fact that classified information was leaked. They understand that there are important issues involving sharing information with the Congress, and they want to see this matter worked out as well as the President does.

Q: Two questions about the agreement between the President and the Hill leaders on information. Number one, does it also include administration officials below the Secretary level, such as Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, who was scheduled to testify before Senate Armed Services before all this came up? And, number two, does it also encompass committees such as the Appropriations subcommittees that have jurisdiction over State and Defense, the Judiciary Committee?

MR. FLEISCHER: Again, as I said -- and I think we've pretty well exhausted this topic -- as I said earlier, the President discussed these matter with the congressional leaders. The President is satisfied; the congressional leaders seemed to be satisfied; and I think this matter will run its course and take care of itself.

Q: Ari, going back to this letter issue, since it's caused a little bit of a rift, what was the mood going into this meeting this morning? And was he happy that he had to open the circle up a little bit more after he closed it down?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, first of all, the meeting discussed many issues. I have to tell you that from the report I have, the discussion of the memo was five minutes of an hour-long meeting. Yesterday, when all the members of the Foreign Relations Committee that were here, it was a 45-minute meeting, and the discussion of the memo took about two minutes. So I think you could say there is a disproportionate focus in the media than some of the members when they meet with the President.

Q: Well, what was the tone of that five minutes? (Laughter.)

MR. FLEISCHER: The food was good. I don't know, I wasn't in there for the meeting, so I couldn't share that. Thank you, everybody.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/10/wh101001.html

[lonestarnot]

32. Briefed by Powell and Red Rummy.... secrets still kept as they would

select what info to brief. Info selected and nothing here to indicate otherwise.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. So, just because they SAID Rummy would brief the entire group of Senators

on the Armed Forces committee, we're suppose to believe that actually happened? It sounds like no other "memo" was written to say such a thing?

Q: Ari, is there also a new memo going out from the President -- the one he sent out was fairly stern and very specific --

MR. FLEISCHER: No, there is no memo forthcoming.

Q: Wait. That one shared very specifically this policy will be in effect until you are told by me that it is not.

MR. FLEISCHER: I think he actually wrote in there "until further notice." And the President met this morning with the four leaders of Congress and gave them some notice.

[Chiyo-chichi]

42. Could Ari have been more evasive?

"That issue did come up in the meeting with the four congressional leaders. And I think it's fair to say, message received."

(WHO "reveived" the message? The Prez or the Congressional leaders?)

MR. FLEISCHER: The briefings will proceed as I just indicated in performance with the President's wishes

(Oh, so classified info will just go to the 8 leaders? Those were the president's wishes, right?)

and as he expressed to the members this morning at the meeting.

(Oh, did his wishes change since yesterday?)

Q: Does that mean the full select committees on intelligence?

MR. FLEISCHER: I think just watch events unfold on the Hill and you will see.

(Criminey! "Hide and watch" was his answer?)

[Terre]

78. Wartime Secrecy

The NYTimes wrote an article on 10/11/01 called Wartime Secrecy
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:JxG9yd2gbCoJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html%3Fres%3DF70E17FA3C5B0C728DDDA90994D9404482+%22wartime+secrecy%22+2001+new+york&hl=en

Unfortunately, it's now archived, but the abstract says:

"Editorial says Pres Bush wisely backed away from his threat to curtail classified military and intelligence briefings to Congress.."

Additionally, the AP reported (also in the NYTimes 12/41/01) the following in an article titled Ashcroft Announces Leaks Task Force
http://www.nucnews.net/nucnews/2001nn/0112nn/011214nn.htm#405

The decision set off a brouhaha in Congress, where many lawmakers criticized the limitation, saying it would impede their ability to carry out their constitutional oversight responsibilities.

"It's an overreaction," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a Senate Intelligence Committee member.

But Shelby, that panel's top Republican, said, "Leaks will not only cause people to get killed, they will destroy a lot of our ability to engage ourselves militarily, diplomatically and doing even intelligence gathering."

The squabble lasted a week, during which Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., pledged that lawmakers were committed to handling sensitive information with "more discipline and greater discretion," and Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., showed Bush a law requiring the State Department to share information with foreign affairs committees.

On Oct. 12, Bush dropped the limitations entirely.

[Nordmadr]

34. I have never hated another human being on this planet as much

as I hate George Bush. I simply can not understand how people can be so blind. The speech he gave at the base in Alaska while on the way to Japan clearly attacked Democrats while addressing military personnel. How can this not be exactly the sort of divisiveness he is accusing Dems of perpetuating?

At that speech:

"They spoke the truth then and they're speaking politics now," Bush charged.

"Some Democrats who voted to authorize the use of force are now rewriting the past," Bush said. "They're playing politics with this issue and they are sending mixed signals to our troops and the enemy. That is irresponsible."

"Reasonable people can disagree about the conduct of the war, but it is irresponsible for Democrats to now claim that we misled them and the American people," Bush said.

It is amazing the lies he still continues to get away with. Of course if Democrats get information filtered through the White House tht says we are in danger. They are going to make statements to that effect. Plain and simple, we did not get the same unadulterated intelligence that the White House did. It is as plain as the nose on my face. Yet he continues to spew his rhetoric, and to the troops no less, making a clear and blatant attempt to turn the Armed Forces of this country against the democratic party, the very same party that is trying its damndest to save their asses. My anger exhausts me these days.

Olaf

P.S. Link for quotes: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/14/bush.asia.ap/index.html

[PegDAC]

57. I don't even hate my first husband as much as I do Bush, etc.,

and he almost killed me!

:mad: :grr: :nuke: :banghead:

[Nordmadr]

62. LMAO, Sort of throws a monkey wrench in that whole checks and

balances thing doesn't it. Well let's see...I don't want them keeping track of me, so I'll restrict their info and say it is in the interest of National Security.

Maybe his God will smite him.

Olaf

[mainer]

35. So Democrats who voted for force did it while blindfolded by Bush

Here's the evidence that Bush with-held necessary information so Democrats couldn't make informed decisions.

[cantstandbush]

40. And if they fail to point this out STRONGLY woe unto them! n/t

[Loge23]

37. Stupid? or Liars?

With apologies to Tom Tomorrow and the terrific "Fibby" cartoon thread.
This excellent piece of forensic journalism clearly points out the inevitable question: Are they blatant liars, or are they just stupid?
In particular, who's coaching the shrub on retro costume/military speeches these days?
This administration continues to be exposed as they were from the start: An illegal, evil cabal of thugs, liars, and other white-collar criminal specialists whom seem to be bent on actually hijacking this country.
We need some serious help - and fast!

[BR_Parkway]

38. K&R - thanks for finding this. I'd seen your comments on my earlier

post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5340848

and was looking for more background information. Great find.

No George, the Dems didn't have all the information you did. And they didn't all vote to let you bomb Iraq and steal it's fortunes for your friends cronies campaign donors

[nuxvomica]

39. Note that Sen. Bob Graham voted against IWR

He was chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at the time so he was one of the eight in the know.

[ClintonTyree]

54. You'd think more Democrats would have followed his lead...

after all, he supposedly DID have all the information the moron in chief had and he voted NO! The rest of the Democratic contingent (most of them anyway) decided to ignore Graham's advice (if they even asked him) and vote WITH the knucklehead! They were so scared that someone would call them "soft on terrorism" that they themselves were terrorized by the bushistas into voting for this. :eyes:

[nuxvomica]

60. Keep in mind that he couldn't share any knowledge with them

It's hard to make a case, even within your own caucus, if you are restrained from discussing particulars. That's the insidious thing about Bush's order -- it isolated those who could have mounted an opposition. Regardless, the fact that Graham voted against IWR disproves Bush's contention completely and I wish Graham would speak out on this if he can.

[Carolab]

74. If you read the Raw Story article posted upthread

"At the time of the order, Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL) chaired the House Intelligence Committee. His counterpart in the Senate was Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), whom Sen. Roberts replaced in 2003.


In a sense, the pre-invasion of Iraq and the post-invasion intelligence blame game can be seen through the lens of a chess game, with the pieces in place well before any troops set foot on the ground.

Roberts appears to become an extension of the White House in selling the war beginning in January 2003. That month, he is appointed to chair the Senate Intelligence Committee, picking up one of the eight coveted clearances.

By the end of the month, Roberts is convinced that Saddam is harboring both al Qaeda and weapons of mass destruction. Much of what convinces Roberts is a series of briefings organized by then-Deputy National Security Advisor, Stephen Hadley. Hadley led a White House team to help sift through CIA intelligence, filtering information for Congressional briefings.

Roberts embraces a larger pro-war role. His voice is joined by Vice President Dick Cheney and then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice."

[Little Star]

41. After reading this thread and

also reading the other referenced threads am I correct to say that this admin. purposefully orchestrated to keep congress from getting intel so they could go to war with no questions asked??????

[Carolab]

75. It's clear that Roberts was controlling the intel

aided and abetted by Hadley, Rice, Cheney, et al

[kentuck]

45. Good one!

It's there in black and white...

[Sydnie]

46. Liars ... and they think we will let them get away with it again!

They are all in this up to their necks.

Thanks for posting this!

[stop the bleeding]

47. This is too good n/t

[ray of light]

48. make sure you forward to fence sitters and naysayers!

[Kota]

49. There was an incident with Orinn Hatch right when 9-11 happened

where he disclosed on T.V. some classified info. He was all hyped up and almost bragging about it. I think thats the incident they are eluding to.

[texpatriot2004]

50. Great find Justice...I hope you get a gold star. n.t

[baal]

51. I am so unspeakably disgusted with the Repugs on this issue.......

See what these guys are doing now, continuing to spin ... http://www.gop.com/?s=video

but it will do them no good in the end. They are finished!

[texpatriot2004]

55. I think that they only dig a deeper hole for themselves the more

they talk about this issue.

[newyawker99]

65. Hi baal!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Career Prole]

52. So in a nutshell, what the vast majority of Congress recieved was

a briefing of a briefing of a briefing.

Q: What I was getting at really is that you're not -- just to follow on that, you're really not briefing Congress, you're basically just briefing about five or six select members of Congress.

MR FLEISCHER: It's quite clear, it's briefing the leaders of Congress.

Tenet briefed the WH, the WH briefed the leadership, and the leadership briefed the members. Thrice watered down.
And on that they held a war vote. :puke:

[Selteri]

53. Gee - So the President is trying to become a dictator and now admitting it

[ClintonTyree]

56. What happened to that duty to protect people's lives?

"At the same time, we have an obligation to protect military operational security, intelligence sources and methods, and sensitive law enforcement investigations".

They obviously didn't share that sentiment when it came to CIA Agents and their entire cover operation. They purposely disclosed the name of an active CIA Agent thus destroying her cover and the cover of Brewster Jennings and Associates, her cover company along with any other CIA Agent associated with said company. They weren't too concerned with protecting intelligence, sources and methods there, were they! :mad:

It seems they put peoples' lives in danger then. The difference being they WANTED to have people harmed in the Plame case, they WANTED to make her and her husband pay for "disagreeing" with our knucklehead in chief. And what of all the soldiers and civilian personnel that have died because of this evil cabal's deceit? Saying they were doing this to protect lives is farcical.

These criminals must be made to pay for their deceptions. Too many people have died because of their sneaky, deceitful, immoral and illegal actions. They MUST be made to pay! :grr:

[milkyway]

58. The President [i]decided[/i] to shift power to the executive branch? It's

not his decision to make.

The President decided to give himself dictatorial powers. Let freedom ring.

[EFerrari]

63. The President decided to suspend the Constitution?

WHERE ARE WE?

[bostonbabs]

59. wow...great work!....thank you ! n/t

[Ron Green]

61. "Put anybody's life in danger"

it's a reflection of the President's ongoing concern to make certain that nothing classified is released inadvertently that could put anybody's life in danger.

"Anybody's life" that he's talking about are the POLITICAL LIVES OF BUSH AND HIS GANG!!!!!!!

[WiseButAngrySara]

68. K and R! Great find. Let's hope the Dem 'Leaders' blast these crooks.n/t

[BrightKnight]

64. no authority to feed Congress cooked intelligence

Rove might like to feed Congress a restricted diet of cooked intelligence but they have no authority to do it. Congress has the right to access any information that Congress needs. The executive is only one branch of government.

[MellowOne]

66. Why does Bush have so much power?

"That's what the president decided."

He also decided to go to war and needed a reason.

[populistdriven]

67. Tell the DNC that this video needs to be in a TV Ad:

Q: Isn't it a huge shift of power to the Executive Branch?

MR FLEISCHER: That's correct -- that's what the President has decided."


and look what the RNC did with all that power...

[lovuian]

69. This clearly shows Bush is responsible and IN CHARGE!!!

He's LIBEL!!! He made the decisions!!!

[Stand and Fight]

70. Good stuff. Refutes a lot of right-wing talking points. n/t

[ProSense]

71. This makes up for it. Thanks for posting! n/t

[mb7588a]

72. Were dems in control of the Senate at this point? nt.

[Armstead]

73. Kick

[chknltl]

77. I just sent this to Congressman Jim McDermott

I do hope he finds this useful....thank you for this.

[shayes51]

79. Thanks for this post.

[Little Star]

80. Kick n/t