Teens Sought in Pa. Killings Found

[Bunny]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051114/ap_on_re_us/parents_slain_abduction

SNIP
BELLEVILLE, Ind. - A man wanted in a Pennsylvania double homicide and apparent abduction of 14-year-old girl was captured Monday after a car he was driving crashed in Indiana following a police pursuit, State Police said.

State Police 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten said David Ludwig, 18, was apprehended about 12:30 p.m. EST after a car he was driving crashed about 20 miles west of Indianapolis following a pursuit by State Police.

Bursten said Ludwig was found with the missing girl, 14-year-old, Kara Beth Borden, a daughter of the slain couple, and she was unharmed.

"He's in custody and we have the girl," Bursten said.
SNIP

[dave29]

1. hopefully everyone gets book deals

n/t

[henslee]

29. You knee jerk cynic.

[dave29]

31. sad, but true.

This is truly a tragedy. Lets hope the news coverage doesn't make it worse.

[rkc3]

2. Caught less than a day after the murders - doesn't make for

very exciting coverage does it?

I wonder if Fox will be able to give this story the justice it deserves.

[apnu]

3. wow I made the mistake of checking out the yahoo boards on this story

racists, pedophiles, and nut-jobs came out of the woodwork for that brief.

now I need to gouge my eyes out.

[MarianJack]

4. Yahoo Boards...

...are about as valuable as a 3 dollar bill with bush's picture on the front!

[lebkuchen]

6. Makes one wonder why Canadians approve of Americans 68%

The Yahoo boards and our deteriorating society would seem to give us away.

[RebelOne]

9. It's just as bad on the AOL boards. n/t

[Karla Marx]

33. Could you please post a link?

I am unfamiliar with yahoo boards. For some reason, I would like to see this stuff. Are they really that bad?
Thank you!

[classof56]

34. Welcome to DU!

Wish I was better at posting links, but if you go to yahoo.com, then to the "In the News" links on the right, click on the story, then when it comes up go to the bottom and click on the "discuss" icon. From there, I can only say "good luck and keep the antacids handy". Some of those posters are just plain sickos!

Glad to have you on our board.

Tired Old Cynic

[apnu]

36. There's a link in the yahoo article

Hit the link in the topic starter, scroll down until you see "Discuss" and get a bucket -- there will be some nasty stuff there.

[mtnester]

42. Here is a pen for ya, my gouging weapon of choice

with eye attached

[MarianJack]

5. Maybe the MSM...

...will dust off all of the old Charlie Starkweather stories.

[kskiska]

7. I was about to say the same thing.

This case is a carbon copy of the Charlie Starkweather/Caril Fugate story from the '50s, whereby the 14-year-old's entire family was shot to death in Lincoln Nebraska. Then the two of them went on a rampage across the whole state of Nebraska, killing everyone they stole cars from, and even from those who helped them in some way. They were captured as they entered Wyoming. Though she was convicted, there was always a doubt whether Caril Fugate was complicit in the murders. She appeared to be, but she passed a polygraph test on the old "Lie Detector" series with F. Lee Bailey. Charlie was executed.

[one_true_leroy]

26. thanks for enlightening....

i would venture to guess that this was the inspiration for springsteen's _nebraska_ album... closly matches the story and setting of the first song. gives me something to look in to.

[brentspeak]

28. There was an acclaimed movie based on the Starkweather murders

"Badlands" (1973), starring Martin Sheen and Sissy Spacek.

[H2O Man]

35. Right.

Chilling movie.

Already today, we see the different perception the media has regarding the male versus female in this case. On MSNBC, one lady said to an "expert," "Well, they had her in the front seat, so they must not consider her a suspect or dangerous." He was also in a front seat, and both were handcuffed.

While tragic, it is an interesting case. It may be more of a "Badlands" than the media has hinted.

[happyslug]

54. Some background on the Starkweather/Fugate murders:

http://www.karisable.com/skazfulgate.htm

[durablend]

8. She was in on it, most definitely...

I'd say how the car probably ended up crashed into the tree but I'd probably be banned from the boards

[Bunny]

10. Actually, an earlier Yahoo story indicated that they were recognized

when they stopped at a truck stop to get a sandwich. The police were called by staff at the truck stop. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that that's when the chase ensued, and the subsequent crash occurred.

[durablend]

11. Likely crashed while he was being (ahem) "serviced"

[Bunny]

12. Yeah, I'm quite sure that "servicing" was going on during a high

speed police chase. :eyes:

[MaineDem]

14. yeah we understood your meaning the first time

It's more offensive when you spell it out.

:(

[spancks]

27. OMG what a troll!

Thank you so much for keeping that to yourself.
:puke:

[H2O Man]

20. Wrong state, wrong direction.

The earlier call that had been reported was clearly in error. They were more than 600 miles away in another direction.

[Bunny]

23. Ah. I thought the truck stop was in Lamar, Indiana.

I guess not. Hmmm...

[rabid_nerd]

40. Right state and right direction, actually...

Just a little too far to get there that quickly..

500 miles in 4 Hours? Doable, I guess...
9AM - 1PM

lititz to lamar
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from%3A+Lititz,+PA+to%3A+lamar,+pa

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5414097,00.html
Two Teens Sought After Killings Spotted
By MARTHA RAFFAELE
Associated Press Writer
LITITZ, Pa. (AP) - A missing 14-year-old girl and an 18-year-old man who allegedly murdered her parents were spotted at a central Pennsylvania truck stop Monday morning, but were not caught, police said.
A worker at the truck stop told The Associated Press the girl appeared to have been crying.
Lititz Police Chief William Seace said Monday afternoon that Ludwig and Kara Beth, who is believed to be Ludwig's girlfriend, had been ``positively identified'' at a truck stop in Lamar, about 90 miles from the Borden home.
Amanda Workman, the shift manager at the Subway sandwich shop at the truck stop, said she sold the couple an Italian sub at about 9 a.m. Monday, and thought they matched a radio description she had heard earlier.
``Her face was all puffy, her eyes were puffy,'' Workman told The Associated Press. ``You could tell she was crying.''

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=from%3A+lamar,pa+to%3A+indianapolis,in
Start address: Lamar, PA 16848
End address: Indianapolis, IN
Distance: 526 mi (about 9 hours 21 mins)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/14/parents.slain/index.html
Police: Teen murder suspect captured in Indiana
Missing girl found safe, day after her parents were killed

Indiana State Police 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten told The Associated Press that Ludwig was apprehended about 12:30 p.m. ET after a car he was driving crashed about 20 miles west of Indianapolis following a pursuit by state police.

[H2O Man]

48. Not only should the

500 miles in 3 hours be a clue to rational people, but the fact that at the truckstop, the witness noted the boy had shaved his head, and four hours later, his hair was exactly the same length it had been, might be enough to convince even the less exacting that the couple was not at the truckstop.

[MaineDem]

13. Gee, give the girl a break!

How do you know she was in on it and what makes you insinuate the reason for the crash? Good lord!

If she's involved fine but let's wiat for the story to come out before we start making insinuations.

[LostinVA]

15. Thank you n/t

[Bunny]

16. Thank you! I fine this whole line of thinking repulsive.

And it's disgusting to bring it up here.

[H2O Man]

30. Actually it only exposes

something about you.

In fact, the police saw the two in the vehicle, gave chase, and at an opportune time -- when the boy had slowed to negotiate a turn -- the closest police car nugged the suspect's car.

[NVMojo]

17. woooooooooooooo! This is breaking news for DU!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Bunny]

18. I don't understand. Do you think this isn't noteworthy?

[Mike Daniels]

22. For a good portion of people it is newsworthy

However, you'll find there's a certain set of people on DU who feel that LBN should be exclusively limited to stories about the Bush mis-administration.

Nothing else is deemed worthy.

[Bunny]

24. Yeah, I know we're not supposed to post frivolous "celebrity"

type stuff in LBN, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with this.

[LostinVA]

25. There isn't anything wrong with posting this

I've been hoping they found them ASAP. I was glad for the info.

[IChing]

32. Something something missing white blond girl tragic killings flashing news

I just wish the OP would have titled it correctly, like this

[LostinVA]

19. This is newsworthy

Reporting on it for the next two months wouldn't be.

[OzarkDem]

21. These posts always bring out the trolls

[SoCalDem]

37. She was not kidnapped..just pissed off because her parents said "NO"

a 14 year old with an 18 year old "boyfriend" is what drives parents CRAZY...

unfortunately lust conquers love...add a firearm, and you get dead parents and "runaway lovers".:cry:

4 lives ruined, and mourning families forever

PARENTS...PLEASE TRY TO HOLD OFF "dating" as long as possible for your girls... 14 is TOO damned young...especially when the boy is more than a year older..:cry:

[sandrakae]

38. She went with him because he had a gun.

He just murdered her parents. She did not go willingly. It amazes me how people can be so cruel.

[mitchum]

46. Well, that defense (sorta) worked for Caril Fugate...

[Nikia]

39. Well, the parents didn't want her to date the older boy

Even though the girl was arguing with the parents before the incident, it seems like he just showed up and started shooting. We don't know if she had any idea that her boyfriend would be showing up to kill her parents. If he didn't plan to kill them, I am unsure why he would bring a gun to their house. From the sister's testimony, it was the boy who shot the parents and since he was calling for her, evidently she was not right there. We don't know if she went willingly or not. If someone had just killed your parents, was looking for you, and you were unable to get away without further provoking, you would probably go too even if you were really upset about what happened. The whole chain of events was probably very shocking and confusing to her.

[meow2u3]

43. The parents were in the right

Ever heard of statutory rape? An 18-year-old who boinks a 14-year-old is committing a crime, whether or not the younger kid "OK'd" it. The relationship is freakin' illegal!

[Nikia]

47. Personally, I agree with you

I was responding to the other poster about try to put off your child's dating as long as possible. They tried, and it didn't work. Personally, I think that a 14 year old is too young to date a 18 year old. There is a lot of change going on between those ages.

[happyslug]

52. May NOT be Statutory Rape in PA.

Pennsylvania has TWO sets of Statutory Rape laws. First it is illegal to have sex with anyone UNDER age 13. She was 14 so that statute does NOT apply. The Second Statute set the age at 16 IF THE OTHER PARTY IS MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OLDER. 14 plus 4 is 18. Thus this MAY not be statutory rape.

Pennsylvania Crime's Code:
http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/18.Cp.31.html

§ 3121. Rape.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a felony of the first degree when he or she engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant:
<snip>
6. Who is less than 13 years of age.

§ 3122.1. Statutory sexual assault.

Except as provided in section 3121 (relating to rape), a person commits a felony of the second degree when that person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant under the age of 16 years and that person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and the person are not married to each other.

Please note, the reason Statutory rape is called statutory Rape is that the age on Consent under the Common law was 12. No one liked that age so by Statute the age was increased. Thus its name, Statutory rape.

[Bunny]

41. You're sure of this?

I didn't realize the authorities had made a ruling on this yet. If they have, please post a link.

[H2O Man]

49. You are right.

One can only speculate at this time. However, the fact the two had reportedly spent most of the night previous to the murders together; that both sets of parents reportedly had voiced concerns about their relationship; and that they appeared to have covered a significant distance in a short period of time, could be viewed as supporting the possibility the two planned at least part of this. Again, that is only speculation on my part, and any post that claims they are able to do more than merely speculate is clearly wrong.

[OzarkDem]

53. Let's avoid jumping to conclusions

and wait til the facts come out.

[PSPS]

44. Here are their personal websites

For David Ludwig:

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=haydren
http://www.xanga.com/guestbook.aspx?user=Haydren


For Kara Beth Borden:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26449326&Mytoken=680F5197-9955-497A-938BC5837152B6A4434716515

[Carni]

50. Hmmm-- she had a blog entry last night

She must really be broken up about the death of her parents.

[Carni]

51. Had to post again after looking at his blog...

What the hell? No really...WHAT THE HELL?

No warning signs there (YEAH RIGHT)

[ultraist]

57. Not surprised. The kid liked to kill animals

On his blog, there are several photos of him with dead deer.

I noticed another shot of him in front of a bookcase with a Jesus pic and a bible---likely, hell, fire and brimstone fundies.

I think the most disturbing shot tho, is where he is holding up a sword and has a wicked look on his face. This kid showed a lot of signs of being disturbed.

[mitchum]

45. I've got my money on another Chuck and Caril situation

[gauguin57]

55. I feel sorry for little Lititz, PA, here in Lancaster County ...

Just last week in Lititz, a guy went nuts over being served a traffic warrant and shot a cop (cop is in serious condition, I think, but will survive). The shooter was chased all over the Lititz area and through Lancaster County and finally shot dead by police. There were local, state and federal authorities swarming all over the town.

Now, this double homicide/teen kidnapping (runaway?) happens in the same little town a week later.

Too, too many guns in this world.

And too much excitement for Lititz, PA, this month!

[jazzjunkysue]

56. David Ludwig: Murderer, Kidnapper, Poster Boy for Home Schooling.

Thank god he was never, ever contaminated by those public school heathens.

[ultraist]

58. Poster boy for fundies who teach their children to love to kill

by having them kill animals. They were big hunters.