So I wonder if the Freepers will find stores owned by Democrats, and

[Redstone]

leave carts full of stuff in the aisles as a "political statement?"

Hey, why shouldn't they? According to some DUers, it's a legitimate expression of opinion.

Imagine the outrage around here if the Freeps had come up with this idiotic idea first...

Redstone

[Mutley]

1. Better yet...

maybe the Freepers should spray paint "Liberal Scum Store" on those storefronts, on our cars, and our houses. Hey, it's only freedom of expression, right?

*sigh*

[Midnight Rambler]

43. I agree. Freepers would never be so eloquent

They're more likely to vandalize, break windows, and set the place on fire. Just look at what happened at Camp Casey. No capacity for thoughtful, symoblic, nonviolent statements, so just destroy.

[MojoXN]

2. Imagine the outrage...

Good point!

MojoXN

[bryant69]

3. I went to school at a university that had a rivalry

They won their first game in our stadium in like 60 yeras or something; and in their exuberance, they went to tear down our goalposts. They were stopped and for several days we went around and talke about how much classless they were. Those other guys had no class.

And then i heard, three days later, that at the dead of night, we tore down their goalposts.

So i guess that shows who the classy ones were.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Agreed!

One of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen here on DU.

[SHRED]

5. I missed that one...

Is this what is being done at Mal Wart?

If so...what a great idea!

:evilgrin:

[Redstone]

7. The you wouldn't mind it if you owned a store and the Republicans

did it to you?

Redstone

[SHRED]

10. my knee jerk reaction

I'll mull this one over.

[Redstone]

11. Thanks. It's good to see someone reconsidering the implications.

Redstone

[RagingInMiami]

6. Costco will be more of a madhouse than it normally is

[LaurenG]

8. Kicked and Nominated

:kick:

[dubyaD40web]

9. I hope they pick out good stuff to fill the carts with

I hate shopping, so that will save me the trouble. That way I could just push the cart to the checkout and skip the shopping part.

[Syncronaut Seven]

12. What, all 3 of them?

Freepers are a legend in their own minds. The few, the proud, the stupid.

Research the history of civil disobedience and opression in the American labor movement, then come back. we'll talk then.

[Redstone]

13. Vandalism is not "civil disobedience."

That's a ridiculous analogy.

Redstone

[Syncronaut Seven]

14. I'm sorry, let me punch you in the face and steal your future.

And your childrens, too. Enjoy the taste of the whip from your new corporate masters. Scratch your tummy? That's a good boy!

We a r e s o fucked!

Vandalism, Pft....... Paris is coming here, because the well fed rolled over. Lead, follow or get out of the way friend.

[Solon]

16. Actually, its more like you crapped in my yard, so I have to clean...

it up, then you try to justify it by saying that's what corporate America is doing to us at work. No matter how true that is, do you really think I would appreciate the sentiment after you crapped in my yard?

[Redstone]

18. Great analogy!

Redstone

[Solon]

20. Inspired by a real event...

Had a little kid at the Wal*Mart I was working in who crapped down his pants while walking through the store. Smeared all over the aisles, it was disgusting, and I was the only one who had any training on how to deal with "human byproducts". That was disgusting!

[Redstone]

17. And you'll change the world's inequities by leaving shopping carts

full of stuff at Wal-Mart?

Be my guest. I'll be REALLY patient, and wait to see how it changes the world.

Redstone

[MADem]

22. Naaah, all they will do is force some low wage Democrat to have to

put all the crap back, ON TOP OF their regular job assignment.

I agree with you, it is a DUMB DUMB DUMB idea. With gas at three bucks a gallon, I am not going to use my gas to drive to a GOP store, run around wasting MY time spending a half hour or more throwing stuff in a cart, and then leaving in a huff. All you do is screw over a wage slave, and waste your own valuable time, when you do that sort of idiotic thing.

Far better to spend the time writing a letter to the editor, or emailing Congress and telling them to get off their asses and get our troops home.

[Syncronaut Seven]

23. An act certainly more symbolic than effective for sure.

Yet, outside of Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink I see so few concrete examples of effective civil disobedience.

I'm not attached to the Wal-Mart idea at all. Direct confrontation in the streets results in death and misery. Creativity is our only hope. Fortunately, the polite brigade will stomp that idea all to hell.

Fine, lets take the egregious wall mart idea off the table. What's next? Ideas?

[Solon]

24. Union flyers on cars in parking lots...

Or other types of flyers, including but not limited to invites for free screenings of the new Wal*Mart documentary, informational meetings with associates, etc. etc.

[Redstone]

25. A few ideas:

1) Vote.

2) Don't shop at Wal-Mart if you don't like them (I don't).

3) Volunteer for civic organizations in your town.

4) Volunteer for charity work if you want to improve the lot of your fellow people (I donate 20% of my professional time to charities).

5) Get elected to a local position. It's a great way to get into politics whaere you can have at least a bit of an effect. Serving on, for example, a school board or wetlands commission is a great contribution to your community.

6) Volunteer for your favorite candidates' campaigns at any level you choose. Local has the most effect.

I know there are others at DU who have better ideas than mine...I'd be REAL happy if this thread turned into a discussion of positive ideas, thanks to the challenge in your post. I'm not being sarcastic here; I'm being sincere. Pitch in your ideas as well, especially if they're something I hadn't thought of.

Redstone

[Syncronaut Seven]

27. Short of number 5, I'm right there! Maybe even more than 20%

of my professional time. The response to my agitated post is ultimately good. I meant no real harm.

Would an ideas thread be a good idea? I'm so pissed and frustrated right now, most all my ideas run to the extreme.

A fair and good response my friend.

Edit because I pressed post too early, Damn corporate overloards! ;-)

[Redstone]

31. Good, good. Charities really appreciate getting services that they can't

afford to buy on the open market. Very few of them could afford my standard rates, maybe it's the same with you.

In some cases, donating skilled time is better than actually writing them a check.

Redstone

[Syncronaut Seven]

32. Yes, and edited #27 to finish post, wrong button.

.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. I haven't made up my mind if the shopping cart deal makes sense

from a political strategy point of view. If done at a certain level, it would seem to insure more workers would need to be hired to deal with the extra re-stocking or that current workers would be more important to running the store.

I wouldn't call it vandelism either. The Berrigan brothers poured blood on draft records and that was widely viewed as civil disobedience.

The question to me is not if it's morally aceptable to leave carts with merchandise, heck that happens all the time for any number of non-political reasons, but rather if it's a good strategy to pressure Walmart to be a responsible employer.

[Solon]

19. Believe me it doesn't...

Look at it from the mind of a floor associate at Wal*Mart, at this time of year, they are overworked, don't have enough time in the day to do the jobs they are assigned(no overtime), and then a bunch of jackasses decide to pull a stunt like this at my store, and leave notes about unions around afterwards. Oh yeah, I would really care about unions and "workers rights" after that. :sarcasm:

More likely I would want to kick the living shit out of whoever pulled that type of shit.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. That's definatly a consideration. But being overworked is just

everyday life at Walmart anyway. If it's not restocking from a cart, it's something else. It's not like that would be down time if it didn't occur.

It could also be argued that refusing to shop in Walmart just means they need to hire less workers and someone loses their job. Of course someone somewhere else at a different store will get a job because people need "stuff" whether they get it at Walmart or somewhere else.

My concern is not so much whether it's nice or not. My concern is whether it makes sense as a tactic in this situation.

Your point needs to be considered in that equation.

A concern I have is that it takes someone a lot of time to FILL a cart and leave it. Is that time well spent that will pressure Walmart, or is it a waste of time from an organizing view point? I think that might be so, but I'm still mulling it over.

[RandomKoolzip]

21. Walmart will feel NO pressure to hire more people.

They'll just make the workers they already HAVE work harder and not pay them for overtime.

Have you ever WORKED in big-box retail? THis idea that somehow leaving shopping carts full of swag unpurchased will bring down the largest retailer in the world is about as stupid and Don Quixote-esque as trying to levitate the Pentagon through Buddhist chanting.

[Redstone]

29. You mean we CAN'T levitate the Pentagon by chanting?

Damn. There go my plans for the weekend.

And there goes my hand as well. I need to stop typing for the day.

But I'll look in later; I see some good ideas popping up for positive actions that really work.

Keep it going, guys.

Redstone

[John Q. Citizen]

33. I think you might be right. And that in the end is the most

important criteria.

The question from an organising point of view is how many carts can you put on the floor of an average Walmart, and my guess is not very many. In which case it does nothing to change things.

A better idea might be to chose one or two high profile stores and concentrate a short term effort at those, where you can actually cause a bit of havoc, use it as a media focalizer and move on to a better tactic in terms of widespread opposition to worker exploitation.

[Solon]

35. Not to mention it being a PR nightmare...

Imagine having a 100 "customers" in a single store that are part of this campaign, in the beginning, they fill the carts, and then leave them en mass, I would imagine Wal*Mart managment may file a complaint with the city, have the cameras in the store turned over to police, and all the "protesters" arrested for vandalism and other charges. Just imagine what the headlines would be like!

[John Q. Citizen]

36. Yeah! Now you are talking! However, i don't think it could be

called vandalism. It's not a crime to fill a cart and get a call from your babysitter and rush home leaving the cart full where it is. It's not a crime. Happens all the time and the cops aren't called and they aren't called for a reason.

You know, your scenario reminds me of the sit-ins of the civil rights movement, where exactly the same kinds of dynamics were at work. That was a tactic used withen an overall strategy. I remember after the invasion of Cambodia in protests people would walk out on the Freeway in mass and shut it down for a few hours. This pissed some people off, got a lot of headlines, and wasn't nessesarily bad for the antiwar movement. Sometimes pissing some people off is a good tactic.

Don't be so timid to upset the applecart so to speak. But upsetting the apple cart just to upset it is usually a waste of time.

So your scenario isn't nessesarily bad or good for the anti-corporate exploitation movement. It needs to be analysed and weighed withen the context of a strategy.

(I know you weren't arguing for it. My point is your scenario could be considered a success under the right circumstances)

[Solon]

37. Problem is I don't really see how...

First is the cowardly aspect of it, kind of like, instead of sit-ins, people paper the places with a shitload of notes about equality before those places open, and don't bother to sit in them at all afterwards. Also, intent is a factor here, if a 100 people all came in within a half hour, and then left, let's say an hour later, without a single purchase, that I imagine, can be prosecuted.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. Yeah, i'm not sure sure on legalities. Could be restraint of trade

or something like that. Or trespassing.

My whole point is that the idea shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but it shouldn't necessarily be embraced just because it's an action.

Protest's success at one time were measured by the # of people arrested. The more the better. On the other hand, just because someone thought something up doesn't mean it's a sound tactic within an overall strategy.

I could see this possibly at one or two high profile stores, (I don't know if flyering or leaving notes makes sense or not, like what would they say?) in a context of civil disobedience. But like I said, I think it needs to be well thought out.

I'm still mulling it over.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Ok, after listening to what people have said pro and con and

thinking about it, I have what I believe to be a better idea.

Day after Thanksgiving. 1 or 2 high profile stores. non Violent civil disobedience.

100 people or so trickle in and start filling carts, then at a signal, half of them leave thier carts (with or without notes) and sit down at the entrance blocking the entrance unfurl banners, hand out flyers and demand the store treat their workers right.

Cops come and people get carried out to the paddy wagons. When the entrance is clear again and things have settled down, the other half leave their carts and do it all over again.

This makes more sense to me than the original idea in a lot of ways.

[itzamirakul]

28. It keeps the staff occupied so they will not be bored...

and certainly acquaints them well with the stock. :)

[AnnieBW]

30. If I Find This Stuff At Costco

I'm complaining to the management! After all, Costco is as "blue" as Mal-Wart is "red".

[ms liberty]

34. Here's my take on this idea, from another thread...

The thread was called something like "Are Du'ers Getting Old?", and told us we should do it because it would be "fun":

I can think of very little that would be LESS fun than spending a bunch of time in Wal Mart, filling up a cart with crap I'm not going to buy, and then leaving it in the middle of the store for someone else to put back. I do shop some at Wal Mart, there isn't much choice in my small rural town. I know many of the people who work there because this is a small rural town. How effing RUDE and INCONSIDERATE an idea is this? It sounds like it came from some damned bratty spoiled asswipe who never had to work in their life. You worked at a GROCERY STORE...this idea would not be like restocking the canned vegetables, do you even realize that? There would be people filling carts with microwaves, computers, furniture; heavy, bulky items. And here near Christmas, when Wal Mart is going to be packed 24/7 with people who can't afford to shop somewhere else. A lot of the people in MY Wal Mart are working there because there is no where else TO work here, since the local industries have outsourced virtually all the jobs. These are ADULTS, some of them working 2 or 3 jobs, to keep from losing their homes to foreclosure, and shoes on their kids, and keep the electricity on. They're getting 4 or 6 hours sleep, and worrying all the time. THOSE are the people this would impact the most, the employees. The people at the top in the corporation probably wouldn't even KNOW or CARE. And the reality is that as soon as a manager at a Wal Mart figures out that something like this is going on...they will be on the lookout, and anyone caught would be banned from the store. And that would end that , and it would be the least important aspect of this incredibly stupid idea.

No, this would be NOT fun at all, nor would it be simply "mischief". Not to mention that I have better things, things that actually ARE more fun, to do with my time. And as far as activism to change the Wal Mart "way", well, I like the idea mentioned in another thread about saving all your receipts from other stores, and sending them to the corp office showing them how much money you did NOT spend in Wal Mart each month. I'm sure you've heard the saying "hit them in their wallet"? THAT sounds far more effective than acting like an ill mannered adolescent.
.....................................................................

This whole idea just jerks my chain, big time. How could someone, anyone think this is the way to show solidarity with working class people? And think that the people would appreciate the gesture, and join the righteous march to equality and better working conditions for all? This idea comes across as to me - a working class woman - as some kind of elitist folly...someone in a different thread described it as the idea of a "Latte Liberal" (can't remember who, but kudos - great tag!). This idea would alienate the very people it is allegedly intended to help.

[MrBenchley]

39. I wonder if freepers can find stores....

and if they aren't followed around by store detectives when they do...

Rupert Murdoch and Alfred Bloomingdale once encountered each other at Le Cirque. Murdoch boomed out, "Alfred, how come you don't advertise in my New York Post?"
The normally reserved Bloomingdale answered in an equally loud voice, "Rupert, your readers are my shoplifters."

[DearAbby]

40. I agree, I have stayed out of the threads calling for this action

but have to make a stand here, the idea is not only a bad idea. It is mean spirited. People can come up with more effective ways to express theirselves without being mean spirited.

They idea of making these people work harder for their wages, because they have to do it anyway. Is jawdropping to me in the lack of care about what these people have to do. It is a childish idea. Fill carts and leave them.

Had a freeper thought of it, there would be hundreds of threads, crying outrage.

[Redstone]

46. Then let's hope that this thread kills that ridiculous idea for good.

And maybe people will put some time into positive ideas and actions instead of juvenile pranks.

Redstone

[Lefty48197]

41. DO NOT LEAVE BEN & JERRY'S IN CARTS!

you monsters!

[SHRED]

44. Is it okay to stick this up in Mal Warts?

Probably not huh?
Still vandalism.

:evilgrin:

[Redstone]

45. Yup. Still vandalism. Wal-Mart's walls, not yours.

OK on your car, though. Get your friends to put them on theirs too. It's a good sticker.

Redstone