So we're thinking about moving up north

[BamaGirl]

amoung the damned yankees (I kid! I kid!) but after reading lildreamer's southern post I'm wondering if that's such a good idea. I mean, geesh, I lived in Vegas for a year and you would not believe the crap I got because of my freaking accent alone, ya know? That southern sterotype thing. Anyway. We have two reasons for seriously considering this, and we're thinking MD, PA, NJ, or DE.

One, we have this kid that's brilliant. I'm dead serious here lol. She's the highest test scorer in her school, over all grades, and even her teachers say they just can't challenge her. Her IQ is in the 150 range. So this kid of mine, is 9yo, and got the idea in her head a couple of years ago that she's going to Stanford. Hey, I'm all for that, but I'm thinking any high quality school outside of the South is not going to accept her, simply because she went to public school in the South. They teach creationism here, and are completely unapologetic about it. The private schools are the same. So this is one consideration.

Two, my husband works for the pd and the city hired a new chief this year. The man has declared war on his own dept. First he fired a bunch of people of bs (they were non-union members of course). Then he stopped all over time. Now, anyone familiar with the payscale of your average southern pd knows how important over time is. The finally straw came this week. The city has now decided it will not make the difference in worker's comp to regular pay. So now if you get hurt on the job you get like 66% of your pay while you're out instead of 100%. We can afford that on what they pay. Sure thing. :eyes:

Our concerns. Even at the difference in what northern depts pay and as low as we try to keep our cost of living, will I be able to not work? What are taxes like? What am I looking at in school class size difference? I'm not worried about my older dd, she's going to do well anywhere. My younger dd has add and she really needs closer attention. Population density is much higher in those states I mentioned than where we live now.

Appreciate any comments.

[KoKo]

1. Taxes are really high in he NE and so is real estate. Even in rural

areas. Have you thought about NC? You might get better schools and more options for housing. Charlotte and Raleigh are growing fast and it might be a good opportunity for your hubby. Also, you wouldn't feel worried about your accent in staying in the SE.

Delaware or Maryland also might be good areas without as high a tax rate as NJ and PA are likely to have. :shrug: I know you will get some good ideas from other DU'ers here.


Good luck. Sorry about your hubby.

[no_arbusto]

6. Call me crazy

but I think the NE "high taxes" thing is a bit of a misnomer. Comparing Alabama to the chart linked below, I don't see much of a difference between there and Maryland. Also, our schools are much better and the PD pays A LOT better. Unfortunately, housing is much more expensive here.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/statereport.html

[BamaGirl]

13. We have discussed the Raleigh area

because his brother and his wife just moved there from south Bama. They love it, say the cost of living is similiar, and the pay a lot better. Our biggest concern about staying in the south is that the politics in the pd here seem to be similiar in a growing number of southern cities. The northern pds we've looked at so far appear to be much better funded. Thx for responding!

[norml]

2. I've heard that Bucks County PA is nice, if you've got the bucks

to live there. It's sort of like a semi-rural suburb of NYC.

[buddysmellgood]

37. The Smellgoods settled in Bucks in the 1700's. Never been there myself

but it sure sounds nice. :)

[Horse with no Name]

3. I live in a podunk Southern town

I have a smart daughter who is making application for college.
She hasn't been turned down anywhere she has applied.
One of our students who graduated last year got a FULL ride at Harvard.
You may have legit reasons for wanting to leave where you are, however, I don't think that believing your child won't be able to go to a good school because she is from the South is one.
Good luck.

[BamaGirl]

14. I'm thinking that depends on where you are

and the philosophy of the district. I went to public school in the Atlanta burbs and feel confidant I could have gone to school anywhere. I do not feel that kind of confidance about the school my kids are in however, especially with a science backlash that is growing in stridency. It's completely surreal to watch it, believe me.

Good luck to your daughter!

[dcfirefighter]

4. Best of luck, I think you'll do fine

MD, PA, DE I can speak a little about. There are rural areas here where you wouldn't know you left alabama. Seriously. You'll fit in fine.

I grew up in Richmond, and wound up in Maryland. I've no children, so I don't know too much about the public schools in these states - I do know that in the DC area, lots of people send their kids to private schools - mostly Catholic schools (and most of these people aren't catholic).

Getting hired as PO with previous experience around here shouldn't be a problem, and the salaries are pretty good. However, housing is a beast - you're financially better off renting (in the DC suburbs), at least until the market cools off.

My recommendation would be to find a place about an hour away from some of the major cities, and have your husband resign himself to a commute. He generally wouldn't be going during rush hour (and in PA & DE, there isn't always one).

Take a look at www.findmyspot.com if you don't know where you want to live.
I have no real advice on schools - the joke is that in pennsyvlania, they teach the three R's Reading, wRighting, and teh Road to Maryland, but I doubt that is true throughout the state.

[BamaGirl]

15. Thx for the link

I don't know that I want to fit in now that you mention it lol. Certainly never have here lol!

We haven't really talked about the DC area because of the cost of living. We'll have to look at the surrounding areas.

[dcfirefighter]

31. Most of the cops and firemen drive 70 miles to work

The salaries here can't be beat ($47-$66K for a lateral transfer). Unfortunately, 70 miles still puts you in expensive territory. You could probably easily afford a townhouse in a decent neighborhood.

[BamaGirl]

34. That's pretty impressive for a lateral

but the commute would be a killer. I'm assuming these are union depts? I wonder what the towns 70 miles out are paying...

[raising2moredems]

5. Research the schools

and read the front page of the USA Today (Nov 11) - policemen are a hot commodity these days:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-10-police-recruits_x.htm

Of course avoid Dover PA, psycho Pat has a hotline to god and says a disaster is forthcoming. And if she wants to go to Stanford, move to CA otherwise tuition will put a crimp in your budget!

Yes do get her out of what passes for public schools - nothing worse than being a smart female and it is just a matter of time before she starts asking the hard questions in creationism class. She'll be branded a heretic and there'll you'll be.

[politicat]

9. Stanford, being private, does not have instate tuition.

Stanford puts a crimp in EVERYONE's budget! :)

[lildreamer316]

7. Sorry;)

Didn't mean to cause a stir with you, dear....forgive?:dunce:

[BamaGirl]

17. Lol, I forgive you ;)

:hug: Some of the responses on your thread are a little scary tho lol.

[politicat]

8. PM Me....

I might have a suggestion if you're willing to A) look at a different state and b) if a private school with very good financial aid would work. But it would be a big change for you.

The other suggestion I have is Mesa, AZ. Mesa Public Schools are excellent and have a fabulous gifted and talented program, as well as a very good program for steering ADD kids (many of whom are gifted, but need additional help.) . The Mesa PD pays well, and since the city is growing by leaps and bounds, is hiring. They pay pretty well, and you can find a house for a reasonable dollar figure. (An example of how good MPS is: I got accepted to Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago and USC, with 95% scholarships at all four. It was that 5% I couldn't come up with, even with loans, thus, I ended up at ASU, which wasn't bad, all things considered. My sister also had her pick of schools, and she "came from behind" so to speak, having had a learning disability and a speech impediment as a child.)

AZ is going purple, slowly. There are lots of mothers who run the household (because that is work, darling, truly!), especially in Mesa, where being Mormon is not uncommon. (That's the down side of Mesa... Lots of Mormons, many of whom are RED and in the mood to convert, and do not take kindly to non-Mormons.)

Tuscon is also very, very nice, but I know less about it.

[BamaGirl]

22. I'll pm you

We hadn't really thought about out west, but should add it to consideration. Mesa sounds wonderful. I can handle the holy rollers, trust me lol.

[0rganism]

10. At first I thought you were going to Canada

Hehe, maybe something for you to consider in the long run. I sure am.

[napi21]

11. It really all depends on where you move in those states you mentioned.

I can only speak for Pa. That's where I grew up, and lived until I was 44. From the states you mentioned, it sounds like you are leaning toward the east coast. I'm from western Pa, just north of Pittsburgh. I can tell you that the schools are definately better than in the South. I don't know why, but it has nothing to do with creationism. Just an example: We moved to SC in 1987 and my son, age 19 enrolled in aircraft mechanics school. There were 23 students in his class, and all were between 19 & 26 yrs old. My son had to privately teach every one of the other students how to do the math because they didn't understand the basics!

I would suggest that you stay away from any of the big cities. Too much crime and way too much risk for your husband on a PD. We lived about 1/2 hour north of Pittsburgh, and encountered very few problems. Class size is probably in the 20+, but it does vary by area. Taxes vary by area as well, so do housing prices. Both are somewhat higher compared to the South, but here in Ga. we live close to the southern border of our county and 3 miles down the road, our house and taxes would be 25% higher than what we pay. Again, it depends on the area.

I can't guess wether you will have to work or not. My best friend was a cop. He worked for an upper class municipality and made pretty good money. His wife did go to work after the last of their 4 kids were out of school.

I hope some other posters will make some area suggestions to you on areas that might interest you.

If I can help you in any way, please ask.

[BamaGirl]

18. My husband is from Ireland and when he came here he lived in south NJ

so that's the area he's talking about it. He doesn't want to be in one of the big cities tho. I'm from Atlanta, so I don't care. Cities are good for me. ;)

What's the economy like in Pittsburgh these days? Do you know?

[napi21]

47. It depends on what job you have. Some are doing very well.

The problem with Pittsburgh is that there are a whole lot of older people. They still live in the same old homes they've always had, so the values aren't increasing very much and certainly many are retired or soon will be. It's eroded their tax base. I still have several relatives there and they're doing fine, but I don't know if I'd suggest that you move there. There's an area a bit north of Pgh. "Cranberry Township" that is doing very well, and I think there are still some rural areas that haven't built those hugh homes that everyone seems to love these days! They're nice, but you aren't going to have one of them on a cops salary! I didn't have one either!

[Verve]

12. You might consider midwest states if cost of living is an issue.

Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Great places to raise kids (many areas value education), low housing costs and standard of living costs in many of the areas as well.

[erinlough]

16. Check out Michigan, Kalamazoo area

They value education, are the home of Western Michigan University which has a lot of innovative eductional ideas and one of the best Special education programs in the state. I just read where Kalamazoo just pledged to give every student in Kalamazoo Public Schools a full ride scholarship to any Michigan State University. That's committment to education.

In addition the cost of living is moderate and there are enough small towns around Kalamazoo that you can have a smaller class size and the advantages of a big city cultural feel. Chicago is only about 140 miles away and there is rail service to go right downtown in Chicago. The lake is close to you and beautiful to boot.

[BamaGirl]

19. We did talk about those states

for about a minute lol. Sorry! I'm afraid I'd freeze to death. We live 60 miles from thh Gulf now, so adjusting to a very different climate is going to be an issue anyway. Seriously, the main focus on those other states is that my husband has family there. I'm hoping at some point to get Wisconsin on the table for consideration tho!

[Lexingtonian]

20. don't worry about colleges

They're always looking for smart and well adjusted applicants from the South and Midwest, because there are relatively few. Don't worry about Creationism. Admissions people assume that the top few percent are smart enough to not buy into it in a serious way.

(If your kid, despite your best efforts, buys into it in a serious way you don't want her going to one of the really competitive places- those places are nasty on egos in any case, and that sort of thing is a horrible vulnerability.)

Don't worry about having an accent, decent and intelligent people with wide interests and compassion are desirable and an improvement everywhere. If you move, our townies tend to look for and respect private and pragmatic/practical efforts at adaption more than you think. And a lot more than any deliberate public efforts at assimilation or defining a role.

[BamaGirl]

26. Not to worry, my kid is a complete skeptic ;)

(If your kid, despite your best efforts, buys into it in a serious way you don't want her going to one of the really competitive places- those places are nasty on egos in any case, and that sort of thing is a horrible vulnerability.)

[Elwood P Dowd]

21. Have you checked out Lee County in your own state?

For schools, the Auburn system is one of the top 3 or 4 in the state. Auburn High School was recently rated No.3 in the state and one of the top 250 public high schools in the nation.

On the downside, the PD doesn't pay that great, and housing costs are higher than average for Alabama.

[BamaGirl]

25. He looked there

Anniston, the B'ham area, the Montgomery area, and the pd's seem to be having their own issues. It sucks, but that's why we're looking outside the south. I'd love to move to Auburn myself...might actually get to finally go to grad school! We were really hoping things would improve here but it's looking less and less likely for that to happen.

[madrchsod]

23. come on up to northern illinois or southern wisconsin

not to bad a place to live. good schools and shouldn`t have a problem getting a job in the rural or urban areas. chicago burbs, madison wisconsin,and milwaukkee burbs aren`t to bad at all. lots of good rural towns in the whole area. oh ya housing is alot cheaper than the east coast..

[BamaGirl]

33. Thx

After seeing so many suggestions for the area, we're adding it to the list!

[Jersey Devil]

24. NJ cops with 5 yrs on the job make 80-90G

but taxes and housing costs are also very high, as well as the cost of education.

[BamaGirl]

28. No wonder he wants to move back to NJ!

:wow: Five years experience here gets you $29k. I'm thinking even with taxes and a housing difference we might be better off in NJ lol.

[Jersey Devil]

35. The move would probably be impossible for most people

In my town in Bergen County the cost of a small cape cod home starts at about 400K and real estate taxes are about 6-7K. If you are coming from an area where housing is cheap the move might be very difficult.

That's why you see so many retired people from the northeast going south to retire. They sell their homes, buy one in the south for less than half what they sold their home for up north and taxes less than half of what they paid up here and wind up with a big piece of change in cash to boot.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

27. How about as far north as North Carolina? Chapel Hill...

is looking for officers:

http://townhall.townofchapelhill.org/police/
http://www.ci.chapel-hill.nc.us/

(I just moved to the Triangle area and can't say enough good things about it.)

Jersey has much to offer, but the real estate tax is truly insane (Corzine to the rescue?!).

http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/snapshots/45245.html
http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/snapshots/31984.html

PA is beautiful, but I'd stick to the non-"Pennsyltucky" areas of Pittsburgh and Philly (expensive!). There are quaint little towns sprinkled throughout PA, but I'm not sure how progressive they are. Real estate is pretty steep in MD too--DC and Baltimore factors. Western and southern MD are more affordable - mountains or beach? Can't offer much re public schools, but I've lived and/or traveled extensively to all of the states you mentioned, so I'd be happy to try to answer any other Qs you may have.

[BamaGirl]

30. Thanks TWriter

We'll have to see if we know anyone who knows anyone in that pd. The politics of the pd concern us more than anything else at this point. Things are getting really nuts here.

Hubby has family in NJ and he lived there when he moved to the states, so he's pushing for it. I was thinking more PA myself. Is housing outrageous in the burbs/towns outside Pitts/Philly?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

41. P-burg is much more affordable than Philly, but it's a major...

haul to south Jersey (aaah, the PA Turnpike!). :-) I'm from near Pittsburgh and really miss it. It's a good mix of white collar/industrial/"ethnic". Excellent college/universities. Steelers! One thing I've heard repeatedly over the years is that people from PA are extremely friendly - and P-burg is no exception. You didn't mention what field you're in (or maybe you did and I missed it...), but you'd probably be set if in banking/financial services or the medical arena. There can be some serious cold/snow though, or at least there was when I was a kid!

http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/snapshots/45798.html

(Not sure how much stock to put into these CNN rankings - I just remember them from a while back.)

Perhaps DE would be a good option as far as proximity to south Jersey and more affordable real estate, but don't know a thing re public schools. Rehoboth is wonderful - that I can vouch for.

http://www.rehoboth.com/

And you'd get The Honorable Joseph Biden, Jr. as one of your senators.

[BamaGirl]

43. This looks like a good area to me

I don't work. Before I had babies I was an Army MP. Can't exactly go back to that ya know lol? I would like to go back to school tho, and do who knows what lol. The cold/snow thing is my biggest concern frankly, being a whimpy southerner who can't take it. ;) I'll have to take a closer look at DE too.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

50. LOL...no, we don't want you going back to that! I don't think the...

winters are as bad as they used to be - just bundle up! Here, I just found this, "Hot Drinks for Cold Weather" (from Penn State, perfect!):

http://mifflin.extension.psu.edu/Families/Hot%20Drinks%20for%20Cold%20Weather.htm

That Friendship Tea sounds kinda yummy.

[Digit]

36. I have a NC real estate license, too

I need a total knee replacement, so have not been able to show any homes for almost a year. Currently, I am undergoing a new therapy that is supposed to grow new cartilage.
We will see how it goes, but I can at least answer questions on the Triangle area, and I also have access to MLS.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

46. Good luck with the knee therapy! That's another huge plus...

about this area - excellent medical facilities.

[sandnsea]

29. Come to Oregon

That way when I tell people to vote against this Republican crap and say "if you want to live in Alabama, just go there", I can add "just ask BamaGirl".

Try Ashland, good schools, nice liberal college town, fairly nice weather all year. Even when it snows, it doesn't get that cold. I don't know exactly what the pay/housing ratio is. There's areas around Medford where you might feel at home too, although I don't know about all the different schools. Rural Oregon is more conservative than say Portland, scary conservative in spots, but generally not as conservative as the south.

Good luck!

[BamaGirl]

32. Well if we relocate the benefit would be getting out of

scary conservative lol. ;) I've been trying to talk my family into moving out there for years, Seattle or Portland. No one will even consider it. :cry: Too far from home I guess.

[Arugula Latte]

38. I think that there is a lot of libertarian-conservatism in Oregon

so it is not quite as scary/creepy as fundy conservatism (of course there are some religious nuts like there are anywhere)...

[Wapsie B]

39. Check out Iowa, Minnesota, South Dakota, Nebraska and Wisconsin

Illinois too. Good educational systems here and in the right place would challenge your daughter to excel. Housing is still reasonable, downright cheap depending where you are. Jobs are here, more plentiful in the larger communities.

[BamaGirl]

44. Funny, my friend in Omaha

is bugging me now (instant messaging is a blessing and a curse lol) to move there. Her property taxes are pretty scary tho. I will be looking more in those areas tho. Thx!

[Wapsie B]

48. Look in Council Bluffs.

It's a nice town, right across the river. I wish I was living right there as any place in Iowa.

[sleipnir]

40. Sounds great. My one comment. Perhaps you don't own a house up north?

Rent an two bedroom apartment. In the long run, I think you might be better off. Especially if you follow the "bubble" which might just burst. The only city that will be mostly protected from that bubble will be NYC. If you're not thinking of moving to NYC proper, I'd be very nervous about buying property at the rates right now.

I will agree with the other posters, the largest expense in the Atlantic North/East is rent/mortgage payments.

Best of Luck!

[BamaGirl]

42. No, I own a house in Bama lol ;)

We'll make a little money selling our house here, but not enough to really make a dent in a mortgage up there. Three kids too, so a 2 bedroom wouldn't work but we have discussed the necessity of renting until the housing market cools. Buying property anywhere right now concerns me!

[bluedawg12]

45. Check out Indianapolis, In. nice mid -sized city.

Folks are friendly and outdoor life is near by.

Bloomington and IU is near by there, good school.

State tax 6% and no tax on food.

[kcwayne]

49. The creationism brain drain is turning from a trickle to a flood

You are the vangard of an exodus, the likes of what hasn't been seen since western migration in the 1800's. Communities that embrace anti-science dogma will create a landscape that looks similar to Afghanistan in 100 years.

A civil divorce needs to occur if the rationalists in the US do not want to be drug down by the poverty and dependence that creationist communities will foster. As the best and brightest escape to more intellectually stimulating and free environments, the federal assistance required to sustain the creationists with science based stuff like medicine, energy, and food will sky-rocket. We should start filing the divorce papers now, while the creationists think it will be a good thing to be separated from secularist.

[Obamarama]

51. Move to Kalamazoo, MI and your lil genius can go to college FREE

Or almost free. This news just broke today. This is wonderful news for our city.

The Kalamazoo Promise: Helping students go to college for free

(Update, Kalamazoo, November 11, 2005, 3:05 p.m.) A plan called The Kalamazoo Promise could send every public school student in the city of Kalamazoo off to college for free.

It is an idea so big that it could change the way of life in Kalamazoo, including the schools, housing market, jobs and industry.

Every student in the Kalamazoo Public School District is entitled to a scholarship to any public university or community college in Michigan, starting with the class of 2006.

Cheers rang out when the announcement was made by Kalamazoo Public School Superintendent Dr. Janice Brown just before the school board meeting Thursday night.

A group of anonymous donors is underwriting the program.

Eligibility for this program is based on how long the student attends Kalamazoo public schools.

To receive any assistance, a student must live the city of Kalamazoo and would have had to attend since at least ninth grade. Sixty-five percent of that student's tuition would be paid.

The scale goes up from there, with eighth graders receiving 70 percent of their tuition paid, 75 percent for seventh graders, 80 percent for sixth, 85 percent for fifth, 90 percent for fourth, and 95 for first through third graders. Students attending schools in the district from kindergarten through high school graduation will have 100 percent of their tuition and fees paid.

http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?s=4103895

[raising2moredems]

52. IL is ok but I'd stay near out of the very rural areas

Schools aren't as good there, lots of consolidation and few towns ran by "boss hogg" if you catch my drift. Our districts our good but growing pretty fast - K-8 has almost 2000 kids now. Older daughter took AP classes and tests in high school and she ended up with 31 college credits at the end of her senior year in high school. Plus she got an academic scholarship that pays her tuition at an out of state college. We also have online classes (illinois virtual high school) - you pay $175 per semester but younger daughter took the AP US Govt class last year (sophomore) and got a 3 on the test (5 is top score, 3 gets you college credit at most colleges) - all independent study. Our high school is in the top 50 of Illinois but I don't know how much our local police departments pay.