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The CONVENTIONAL WISDOM Now Is That CHIMPY LIED To Start The War

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:40 PM
Original message
The CONVENTIONAL WISDOM Now Is That CHIMPY LIED To Start The War
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 01:50 PM by Beetwasher
Poll after poll now shows that people believe Chimpy lied and manipulated intelligence. This pathetic, idiotic speech of his will do NOTHING to change that, and in fact, it may make things worse for him.

It's already conventional wisdom, whether or not the MSM treats it as such (and most of the MSM, in fact does NOT treat it as such) doesn't matter. The public's perception has had a drastic shift and there is NO going back from that. It's just not possible.

The rest of this post is a repost, but it seemed appropriate in light of this speech and the apparent implosion of the Repubs. This is Bush's astounding incompetence coming to light.

{REPOST}

W is A Defective Product and Rove is a Moron

Remember when you were a kid and some new toy would come along and the commercials for it were plastered all over the Saturday morning cartoons and before you knew it everyone you knew had one and of course, you had to get one too? It looked so great in the commercial, shiny and fun and promising endless enjoyment. I'm sure it happened numerous times during your childhood. Only, you get the toy and it's not nearly as fun as it looked and it breaks after using it a couple of times. The dissapointment and resentment would well up every time you saw the commercial after that. You knew the truth now and no amount of marketing would ever get you to buy another one of those toys. Maybe they'd sucker you in again for a NEW product, but that toy? History.

Bush is that toy. He was sold to the American people through a marketing and propoganda campaign of epic proportions. 9/11 didn't change Bush, it changed the way the country saw him. The country desperately needed a leader and they projected everything they thought a leader should be into Bush. Unfortunately for Bush and his bosses, they picked a defective product to foist on the American people.

The lustre has worn off and no amount of PR or marketing or propoganda can bring the people back to once again accept what they now know is a defective product. Bush's neocon bosses might have actually been able to pull off their complete seizure of the country if they had picked a different puppet. Someone who had at least a modicum of competence. Bush is not that puppet. He has neither the competence, the charisma or the intelligence. He's lazy, incurious, dull-witted, boorish, obnoxious and astoundingly arrogant. He's defective through and through right down to the very core of his essence and no amount of propoganda or PR will make people believe otherwise now.

And in addition, Rove, who one can say is the puppet master, is not all he's cracked up to be. I've never shared the opinion of many that Rove is brilliant. I've always thought he was a low-brow, ham fisted goon with a few obvious moves: Massive full frontal attack, or backstab and bait and switch. He's over rated.

Always remember, he didn't get the Chimp in by WINNING the election. If he could have done it that way, with smarts and finesse, I would say it was brilliant. To actually successfully sell a defective product takes brilliance. His tactics however, were ruthless thuggery and threats of violence and complete reliance on the Supreme Court. Nothing brilliant there. The Chimps approval ratings skyrocketed because of 9/11, not Rove's brilliance. A brilliant Political strategist would have been able to sustain those numbers. Rove is unable to do that and has NEVER been able to do that. He's a moron and he sucks at his job. He doesn't understand subtlety or nuance or the big picture. He's neither the intellect, the insight or the instincts of a brilliant person. What he does have is vicious ruthlessness in abundance and a propensity to take big risks. That's not brilliant, as a matter of fact, with no sense of moderation, it's quite stupid.

There's no marketing tactic, no amount of propoganda, no selling this defective product anymore. This ride is over.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. I sure as hell hope that is the CW. BUT the media still seemed determined
to prop him up.

Presstitutes. :(
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Nordic65 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Absolutely spot on
An what a ride, or rather fall, it has been.

As craptacular as his presidency has been so far, try imagining three more years of the same. SCARY!
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes. Isn't it WONDERFUL?
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 02:02 PM by rocknation
On AAR this morning, Rachel Maddow played played a clip from Tucker Carlson's show. It starts with Tucker rattling off the names of Democrats who "aided and abetted" Bush by voting for the Iraqi invasion. Then you hear Rachel respond, "Being lied to, and believing it when you're lied to, is a different level of evil than actually telling the lie." Then she said live, "The argument you're getting from the right is that IF YOU BELIEVE BUSH'S LIES, YOU CAN'T BLAME HIM FOR LYING!"

You know that we've come a long way, baby, when you can actually hear "Bush" and "lie" in the same sentence on national TV!

:bounce:
rocknation
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. thanks for the headsup
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 02:15 PM by melissinha
I must now stream Rachel, I have been behind on that.... too pad I ran over my Ipod after a string of bad luck yesterday....

:cry:

I need to listen to Rachel, thanks!
:pals:
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Yeah, It's Good Stuff
It feels especially good to us ten percenters! :thumbsup:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. An Excellent Summation Of The Thing, Ma'am!
"If you believed Bush's lies, then you can't blame him for lying to you!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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Poet Lariat Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. There are two involved
From a quote I found about lying and cheating at http://www.romanceclass.com/miscr/LoveDtl/1569

"When one lie is told, two people are involved. The person lying, and the person being lied to. The person being lied to has it the hardest".


I would change this to read:

"When one lie is told, 295,734,134 people are involved. The person lying, and the other 295,734,133 people being lied to. The people being lied to have it the hardest".
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Then it's time for the Democratic party to unify on a platform of honesty
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 02:09 PM by 0rganism
Not just more of the same-old, with an "honesty gloss".

No. Total repudiation of all misinformation and spin. No more "the meaning of is" bullshit. No more "I voted for the bill before I voted against it" crap. Call the president out on his incompetence and lying, and take responsibility for being his willing dupes. Swear before God (since Americans demand that kind of thing from elected officials) that we will never let it happen again, that there will be no more taxpayer-funded killing for false pretenses and corporate profits.

And run some Iraq war veterans in those "untouchable" repuke districts, to make them sweat. Make the GOP spend boucoup bucks to defend its "safe" seats. The vets will run on the basis of what they've seen in Iraq, rejecting the corruption and croneyism and utter wastefulness of the bushistas. Make sure that the wingnuts there know that by supporting a GOP incumbent they're supporting lies and the senseless killing of innocent fetuses, as well as children, women and livestock.

Every time a republican runs an attack ad, the first response -- and it should be done quickly, simply, and within a day -- should be to call them on their lies. "Truth squad" every attack ad, and point out that their positions are rooted in dishonesty, and their MO is slander. Hit the cable news shows with calls to the media to repudiate lies and slander when they see it, if for no other reason than to preserve their own waning credibility.

Our leadership must make full use of this CW in the next 12 months.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Oh, Hell Yeah!
Absolutely. I think the Dems actually need to start a generic national campaign NOW and keep it going to the '06 elections.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Now that would be a peaceful revolution
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. What he said.
:thumbsup:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. excellent points made....check this site for some backup
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Cool, Thanks!
n/t
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. One very good reason why he'll not reverse the course of opinion:
No WMDs were found.




Let me repeat:


No WMDs were found.





:)
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Yup, There Is Always That!
n/t
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. I do think the speech will only hurt him.
He came accross as too defensive, and is still pushing the same old agenda that AMericans have already rejected.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. He's Too Pathetic, Too Disingenuous, Too Damaged and Too Defective
No one's buying it. And further, his defense seems to be "You believed my lies, so it's YOUR fault!"

The majority (the LARGE majority I may add, like 60% of the country) completely identify w/ the Dems. We believed you when you told us Iraq could nuke us and attacked us on 9/11. We believed you and trusted you and you lied to us. Never again.

It's too late to and he just comes across as a disengenous, lying shuckster.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. The other Rovian mistake is
that he could only focus the ham-handed approach on a war effort--whether a bricks and mortar war in Iraq or a virtual war against "terra." What he could not do was split off his energy on the other major issues--the social problems that the administration faces.
I recognize that that is a Phase II plan--but they've spend the real and political capital already and the well is now dry.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well, When You're Only Weapon is Lies and Spin
Reality eventually catches up w/ you because there are no actual tangible results. Since there policies are totally bereft of substance, they have nothing to show and say "See, we were successful, here's the evidence!" Instead what they have is FAILURES and then they (Rove) point to those failures and try to spin them as successes. That can only work under certain conditions; if you're very popular and people trust you, like Chimpy right after 9/11. Chimpy could have taken a dump on TV after 9/11 and Rove could have proclaimed it a major accomplishment and people would have gone along at that time. Once that trust is gone however, it's no longer possible to pull something like that off and once that trust is gone, only someone skilled and competent can get it back. Say what you will a bout Reagan, he DID accomplish getting some of his trust back after he lost it, because he DID have SOME skill in that he WAS actually personable and DID have REAL charisma. Chimpy is NOT really likeable and had NO real charisma.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Reagan also took to heart
advice that he needed to regroup--and he got rid of some of his losers, replacing them with a more serviceable crew. B* has some weird thing that tells him loyalty is a supreme value--and that is biting him in the *ss big time.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Right, Which Was a Move That Had Substance
and got actual results. Something Chimpy and Rove are incapable of doing.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. THANK YOU for this paragraph alone (although it's all good stuff)
"Always remember, he didn't get the Chimp in by WINNING the election. If he could have done it that way, with smarts and finesse, I would say it was brilliant. To actually successfully sell a defective product takes brilliance. His tactics however, were ruthless thuggery and threats of violence and complete reliance on the Supreme Court. Nothing brilliant there."
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You're Welcome!
Glad you appreciate it!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Today's speech will
only be popular with people like Sean Hannity. It will rank with the 5-1-03 "Mission Accomplished" foolishness. In the months to come, it will be used by the late night comics as a cheap source of amusement.
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