Microsoft - a rant.

[Deja Q]

I've been noting the continuation of web-based applications, to render the PC obsolete.

Want a game? Get a console instead. That's what the xbox is for, but don't hack it!

Want a PC? Gotta have broadband and a plug-in box that can be swapped out in 2 years for another.

They will be able to sell it via subscription plans which means a continual stream of income for providing nothing of real ownership value.

Of course, a thin client world means no more PCs and no more PC support. No desktop client anymore. But I'm sure you all know this already and have no qualms about Gates' expansive involvement in a product line that will render TENS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS OBSOLETE/REDUNDANT/USELESS/WHATEVER.

Still think this guy is great? Here's more:

Microsoft means they release a half-broken product now and fix it later; no matter how much they claim that they care about security; for every product they make seems to come in as a "catch-up" slapdash product and then take over the competition who got there first. (this is amusing since Gates has said it's a matter of getting the product out first being more important...) This isn't responsibility, it's a careless quest for greed. This is only a small part of his business tactics, which are the most predatory, obscene, and sometimes ILLEGAL (his scam against computer makers that he got caught for in 1994 was truly vile).

Of course, the feds are clueless or have no concept of fair play so MS will never be punished for their "observe, catch up, exterminate" M.O.

But back to the first point, it's web-based. People in virus security right now have noticed an ALARMING increase in the number of virii being created. When something new in the wild is released, it spreads incredibly fast. Word is that they are all waiting for the Zero-Day, where a virus is so clever it will knock out the internet so quickly, it'll be a real pain to fix. And you can thank MICROSOFT for that.

And while NO platform is utterly secure, and having worked with several platforms myself, I can say that Microsoft seems to openly welcome virus writers with open arms, just for the sake of introducing costly problems.

So you MS-supporters can call him great for donating millions or even a billion into his own foundation (ala tax break). Unbless you have read up on Microsoft's past, you have no right in calling him a great man. And right down to his beginnings, before his QDOS venture even, he was scummy. (would you write a BASIC compiler and sell it for the same price as the hardware it was supposed to run on? Because of this, programmers made and freely distributed their own version, which angered Gates to no end... and he's as much a paranoid power freak from that far back as he was insanely greedy. Never forget this punk went to jail, and produced a smug grin ala Tom DeLay:




Read up on ALL his past, and there's a lot, and you'll find his current "philanthropy" is shameless and spurious P.R. image control. He's more people than he's helped over the decades and I'm sorry people prefer to not look up his past, as they do George W Bush's.

[acmejack]

1. Penguin power!

Linus Thorvald is a great man-oh wait, he didn't make zillions &b still answers his own e-mail. Bill would say Linus is stupid & missed his chance. We know better!

[raysr]

41. Mandriva 2005LE/Xandros OCE 3.0.2

dual boot here.

[ohio_liberal]

2. While I agree with you that MS is evil

According to the Smoking Gun, that mug shot was for a traffic violation. Not exactly a convicted felon.

[Gato Moteado]

3. one word:

linux

check out ubuntu if you get a chance. it's a nice debian linux distro with great alternatives to all the MS office products. you can freeley save and load word, excel, powerpoint, etc files.

[wakeme2008]

4. First

http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/ :) enjoy

Second... Gates did not give away $$$ until he got married. Before that he gave away "free" copies of software. :grr: IMHO it is his wife that is given away real $$$$

[liberal N proud]

5. You had to bring up Microsoft, didn't you

Now I get started.
The company which I work has been solicited by Gates to put the entire computer system under complete control of Microsoft.
Microsoft has written documents about the calling it an Experiment.
All of our IS support has been outsourced to Microsoft who outsourced it to someone else who outsourced it to a third party.
Basically, everything related to computers will be managed by Microsoft. Our email is already housed on Microsoft's servers and managed by them. They are currently in the process of taking all PC's and "locking them down" This means we will not have the ability to save any files to the hard drive. If Microsoft doesn't have an application that meets our needs we can not install or have installed software that does meet our needs, An example would be 3D CAD software. We will no longer be able to access the internet unless it is a Microsoft web site.
It is soon to be a living hell for those of us who look at the PC as a necessary tool for our job.
If you need document control, they have Sharepoint which is nothing more than a glorified web site for sharing documents, No management capability.
Anything but Microsoft, PLEASE!

[bleedingheart]

12. then there is IBM...

try using their trainwreck of an email system....Lotus Notes...what a disaster....

[tomreedtoon]

6. Problem is, no real alternative to Windows.

And don't even mention Linux. Linux isn't an operating system; it's a hobby. Every time you think you can get a Linux system stable, where your word processor doesn't crash and you think you can get back to work...BANG! Somebody upgrades the Linux kernal and all your software stops working. Back to square one. It's like running a model railroad where the layout changes every week, and claiming it's a reliable transportation system.

(On edit: and of course, just like model railroad guys, Linux cultists are insanely proud of their wreck of a system, and rant like a cultist when someone suggests it isn't the Second Coming. I just hope Linus Torvalds doesn't start making his fans drink Kool-Aid.)

The only "stable" version of Linux is the Macintosh OS X, and now I find they're changing that. (Hopefully, the new Mac's, which will be using the freely-available Intel chips instead of the weird Motorola processors, will be more available - but they still will face a world mostly running on Microsoft Windows.)

About the only response to Gates has been criminal behavior; using illegal "cracked" versions of Windows, hacking the Xbox so it can be a full computer using Linux (but there you are, using the Model Railroad Operating System again), or simply creating viruses to screw up other people's lives by ruining their computers. Not very satisfactory situation, is it? Part of the tragic story of personal computing.

[moggie]

7. This is a parody, right?

I suppose all the rock-solid Linux servers I run in mission-critical roles are a figment of my imagination?

And OS X = Linux? :rofl:

[tomreedtoon]

9. Knew a Cthulhu Cultist would respond quickly.

Re-read the post (updated). You claim that Linux is a stable system? How can it be, when every new kernel released invalidates the software you've had to tweak into near-functionality?

Of course, you can try to put one version of Linux on, and ignore the many changes the kernal will go through in the succeeding weeks...but you'll have to revise sometime to improve functionality or add something the system needs, and then what do you do?

I am not a fan of Windows or Bill Gates. Although I have both a Mac and several Windows machines, I would love something more functional. But Linux, as mentioned before, is a Frankenstein monster with an army of mad doctors modifying and altering the beast. No wonder it staggers and lurches, and most sane individual users run in fear of it.

[moggie]

15. Meanwhile, here in the real world...

I've worked as a programmer and system administrator for more than 22 years. During that time I've been responsible for a variety of operating systems, and any tendency I might have had to rabid OS advocacy I grew out of years ago. That's for kids and fanboys. All platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, and a sensible professional doesn't invest too much emotion into defending them: OS choice isn't a religion.

Currently, among the systems I'm responsible for, there are 29 running Linux: mostly Red Hat, a couple of Debian. These provide a variety of essential services for an organisation of more than 1000 employees, plus for a large number of external paying customers. We've used Linux since 1998, and in that time I can count the number of crashes we've experienced on the fingers of one hand, none recent. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for Windows servers seem to struggle to keep them stable, and our desktop support people are scrambling to apply the latest security fix (described in Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-053) across the company.

How can it be, when every new kernel released invalidates the software you've had to tweak into near-functionality?

This doesn't match my experience. Tweak? Most of our applications run without any tweaks needed. Kernel upgrades? Infrequent, but, when they're necessary, they've never caused us any problems.

Among the menagerie at home is an iMac running OS X, and I like that too, though I've had a little less stability since upgrading to tiger. Tell me again how my Mac's running Linux! :rofl:

[tomreedtoon]

21. But your Mac isn't running Linux. It's running Mac OS.

Which is a Linux that was locked down and made unchangeable by all the mad programmers out there. In other words, Apple did what the Linux community was afraid to do - say "That's enough for now, let's leave it alone and not tinker with it."

If fiction writing were like Linux, J.K. Rowling would still be going back to Chapter 3 of her first Harry Potter book to rewrite, and the publisher still wouldn't have it.

[Solon]

22. Ignorance is bliss, is it not?

Darwin, the "base" of Mac OS X is based on BSD a totally different Unix like operating system.

Also, unchangable? They come out with a new upgrade every 6 months, more than Microsoft's Windows, which hasn't been upgraded in damn near half a decade.

[ErisFiveFingers]

27. Wrong again.

"Which is a Linux that was locked down and made unchangeable by all the mad programmers out there"

See:
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

It's not a variant of linux, it's a BSD based OSS project, that anybody can contribute to.

[Solon]

31. Have you tried Open Darwin x86 yet?

I was going to download it, but I ran out of blank CDs, as soon as I get some more I'm going to try it.

[ErisFiveFingers]

33. Nah, haven't tried it.

Yellow dog (for *nix) and OS X seems much more developed for my PPC boxen, and I've got FreeBSD/NetBSD and some various flavors of linix on my x86 boxen. It might be fun to give it a whirl, but I think I might have already reached my "maximum limits of OS installs for one house". I got rid of my HP/UX and SunOS and Solaris for the same reason.

[BurningDog]

51. Nobody forces you to upgrade for every minor kernel revision.

Its been over 2 years since there was a major version kernel release. Minor version kernel releases shouldn't break software (and major version releases shouldn't break much). If your system is working fine and there are new major security updates or no major features you need in the new revision, then why change out the kernel? If you want to look at Microsoft's track record doing the same thing, look at how many apps SP2 broke.

If you use a distrobution with good package management tools (e.g. debian and its derivatives), you'll rarely if ever run into a problem like that.

[acmejack]

8. Tom you're just too hilarious!

Thanx for the early morning laugh, I needed it!

[tomreedtoon]

10. Your Linux system is out of date. Please upgrade.

See the above Cthulhu message. Upgrade your kernal now. The power of Torvalds compels you.

[sproutster]

11. Linux is not a trainwreck

Do you even USE it in a professional capacity? I work in the tech industry, and my hardcore work is done on a linux.

Are there problems? Yes. Can they be overcome? Yes.

I can see people in graphics using a different system, or someone needs to make a better suite then gimp(? it's morning so I have trouble remembering names). For casual use that isn't critical it's great - artistic stuff where actual image size needs to be retained you need a different program.

Other then that - your options are limited only by your lack of imagination.

LONG LIVE LINUX!! Almonds! Almonds!

MS is sneaky tho, if I wasn't covered by an NDA I would spill about some stuff coming soon... They are truly bloated monsters that need to be taken down.

[tomreedtoon]

19. Those aren't almonds. It's Prussic Acid. Poison.

I use computers in a professional capacity. That means the computer has to have a reliable, stable system that I don't have to rebuild from scratch when some moron decides the kernal needs a few more bytes.

I did not say Linux is a train wreck. I said it is a MODEL train. You can put on your little engineer's hat and run the throttle on your Lionel and pretend you're doing real work. But don't tell me your toy OS is the City of New Orleans.

Although, I am convinced that the Linux people run their model trains like Gomez Adddams does, crashing the train just to enjoy the wreck.

[alfredo]

39. Ever hear of SELinux?

http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/

Not a toy train.

[Union Thug]

13. Love my G5 / OSX !

Stable, powerful and doesn't crash. Ever. I think I've had to do a force quit of an app...oh... ONE TIME ...

[Village Idiot]

14. WTF???

Never seen a screed so full of crap at this time of the morning before...usually it takes a bit of coffee to come up with bullshit like this!!!

[tomreedtoon]

20. Well, thank God your coffeemaker isn't Linux...

...or you'd have to order the upgraded kernel every time you changed the filter in the thing.

I wouldn't keep ragging on this if they would have the FINAL, PERMANENT version of the Linux kernel and the whole system, lock it down, and keep it unchanged for two years or so. But that would deny you guys the thrill of screwing up all the Linux users with upgrades, which is the only reason that anyone seems to take joy in the thing.

[ErisFiveFingers]

28. Are you trying to upgrade odd-numbered kernels or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel

2.2 took two years.
2.4 took two years.
2.6 took three days, oh wait, no, it was two years.

I'm sure there will be a "final, permanent" kernel as soon as there is "final, permanent" hardware, and nothing is ever changed again.

As far as updates, I generally run yum as a cron job... keeps things simple, it updates in the background, and I don't have to care.

[tomreedtoon]

36. So, do you sacrifice a chicken at the full moon?

You see, you're taking more time trying to get the faulty Linux system to work than you are writing, editing video, or whatever you're SUPPOSED to be doing with your computer! Taking three years to get a working system together...you could go to a lab and manufacture your own CPU chip in that time!

That is why Linux is a hobby system, not an operating system. Meanwhile, roughly half of the useful Windows apps will still run on Windows 95, 98, 98 2nd Edition and the like. They are faulty systems, but they still do useful work. (My employer still uses 98 on about twenty systems and has no real problems with it.)

[moggie]

52. I still have one system running 2.2.10

That kernel was released in mid-1999, and the system in question is still in regular use and does useful work. Reliable, too.

All operating systems, whether Linux, Windows, MacOS etc go through much the same lifecycle. Minor updates are released from time to time to fix bugs, improve performance, support new hardware and so on. Then, at less frequent intervals, a whole new release comes along which provides major new functionality. If you're running Windows XP you probably use Windows Update regularly to keep it updated, and unless you're new on the block you've probably personally been through several different releases of Windows. But if you don't need the bugfixes, performance enhancements, new hardware support or new bells and whistles, you might be happy still running Win95. The principle is exactly the same.

Incidentally, I've just updated the Linux home system I'm typing this on. Trivially easy: just typed 'apt-get update; apt-get upgrade' and then just carried on web browsing while it did its stuff. Nothing broke.

I realise that those of us in the reality-based community can't persuade you with facts, because you're obviously coming at this from an ideological rather than rational position, for whatever reason. Maybe you own SCO stock, or maybe a Linux geek kicked your dog, I dunno. But I think it's still worth us pointing out the facts, for the benefit of any uninformed third parties reading.

[tomreedtoon]

54. Perhaps the problem is...Linux is NOT a religion.

But too many of you guys think it is. You have all lost the important part - a computer is a tool that is supposed to perform useful tasks. Yet you evangelize the thing like it was the Second Coming. And you treat people who don't worship at the altar of Torvalds like pagans and unbelievers.

For the record, I don't mind paying Bill Gates for his system. (Paid about four times, by the way.) It works. It works with a lot of useful programs.

And I don't have to belong to a cult of continual upgrades. This DOES happen, deny it as you will. Whenever I eavesdrop on Linux people, these are the topics they discuss, in order of frequency:

1) Upgrading to the next kernal.
2) Making their system work after upgrading to the next kernal.
3) How evil I and all other Windows users are.

[moggie]

56. So your problem is with some Linux idiots

Rather than with Linux itself. So why not criticise the users, rather than the OS?

All operating systems attact their share of fanboys, who are often technically clueless. Yes, I've encountered Windows users who are like that, though at present Linux is more fashionable with those prone to this sort of behaviour. It's possible you've been eavesdropping on the sort who like to stay on the bleeding edge, always running the latest development kernel. Those are intended for kernel developers and testers, not the rest of us and certainly not for production systems.

Several of us have pointed out that continual upgrades are not necessary, and the infrequent upgrades cause no problems. But you seem to think we're lying, so there's not much point continuing. I'll just add this: my employer needs stability, so if we'd found this impossible to achieve with Linux we'd have dropped it like a hot potato.

You accuse Linux users of treating it like a religion, but the irony is that you're the one behaving in the most religious manner in this discussion. The signs are there:

• An us and them mentality: check (visible in every post)
  
• Insulting the opposition: check ("of course, just like model railroad guys, Linux cultists are insanely proud of their wreck of a system")
  
• Projection: check (behaving irrationally while accusing the opposition of same)
  
• Cavalier attitude to facts: check ("the only "stable" version of Linux is the Macintosh OS X")
  
• Believing the opposition to be bad people: check ("I am convinced that the Linux people run their model trains like Gomez Adddams does, crashing the train just to enjoy the wreck"; "about the only response to Gates has been criminal behavior")
  
• Refusing to accept facts from the opposition: check ("this DOES happen, deny it as you will")
  

You'd fit right in with the Intelligent Design crowd. Me, I prefer to make my computing choices strictly on rational grounds.

[sproutster]

37. No your coffee maker will be MS...

[AntiCoup2K4]

40. Is that when Micro$oft merges with Starfucks?

:shrug:

[sproutster]

53. Look up XPe. :) Can't wait for my coffee makers blue screen

[Dogmudgeon]

16. Mægick Bunnywomen from the Chrome Universe

I'm migrating from Windows to Linux, and it's not an easy job. I haven't had any kernel-switch problems, but security model is complete overkill, and makes it difficult to do so much as look around without being informed that you don't have "permission" to use your own system. And Linux really has no killer apps, except if you want to use CCRMA's specially-tweaked Fedora Core system to build an audio/video studio. OpenOffice is very good, but it's still behind Microsoft Office. As for development, MS IDEs (Integrated Development Environments) are far and away superior.

Then, there is Culture. I now understand why certain bad guys were moved to reach for their revolver.

The same way as the Mac world is dominated by a twee upper-class hipster culture (Dredlocks and $500 iPods! It's a young marketeer's wet dream!), the Linux world is saturated in cutsie-poo Geekdom, to the point where it interferes with the actual operation of some of the programs. Speaking of IDEs, there are two popular IDEs for Python development: Eric IDlE and Idle. Which to me were the same thing until about the fourth time I made the mistake. (Yes, Python was named after Monty Python's Flying Circus.) There is no shortage of SMEGs, several apps with Japanese anime names like xHentai or xTetsuo, and a ton of Crowleyan "Magick" words from Daemon to Aeon to Magick this and Magick that. ("Io Pan! Io Pan! Yo Adrian!")

Yeah, it's gonna be real easy to justify loading Magick Cleese SMEG for xBukakke 0.4b on 500 machines in Accounting.

And to those who try to tell you that Linux never crashes, I have one word: Desktop. Gnome is somewhat stable, and KDE is occasionally stable. And most of the "skinz" are ugly-ass imitations of spaceships modeled after 1950s automobiles which were themselves designed to suggest the human vagina. The overall effect (if you could call it that) detracts from usability like the nudies and half-women-half-rabbit anime models that appear on waaaay too many of the desktop previews.

Still, Linux is the way to go in the long run. Gates and Co. are going to shoot themselves in the collective foot, and intend to use a Bushmaster rifle with a high-powered scope to do it. Looking the other way while people "illegally" used their OS was the best form of advertizing Microsoft ever did; they now require a painful and humiliating multi-step registration process for WinXP, which is a $180 "product". I was a MS developer for a major pharmaceutical company; MS convinced the executives to fire us and outsource all the work. They now use thin clients that are about as functional as thin models -- they look real pretty, cost a ton of money to keep up, and have frequent breakdowns. The only ways they differ is that the thin clients do not chain-smoke and aren't heroin addicts. (They may or may not fuck rich men, depending on who you talk to.)

So now Gates has also alienated a large chunk of his developers, and has changed the entire enterprise computing model to satisfy the neuroses of a few hundred executives of enronmous companies and bugger all to the smaller operations. These power-crazed, insecure fat-cats don't need cognitive therapy, they need a couple years of full-throated primal screaming with Dr. Arthur Janov himself.

Following current trends, in five years, Windows will disappear into a licensed, sterilized, professionalized "cyberspace" while most people will finally be upgrading their Win98 and Win2k systems to a modularized Linux that has had all the bugs worked out and much of the geek-speak translated to English (or other users' languages) for ease of use. (I also hope they lose the Bunnywomen from the Chrome Universe by then.)

Linux ain't perfect -- but it doesn't merit trashing, either. Its users may still mainly be cultists, but at least the cult has fully-functioning deliverables, all free* for the using.

--p!

* "Free" as in "Free Base", not "Free Republic."

[Gato Moteado]

17. beautiful.

i'm laughing, but i'm not sure why. i couldn't tell whether you were trashing linux or not until the end.

but, good post. i enjoyed it.

[Dogmudgeon]

18. I like Linux

But those Bunnywomen have got to go.

--p!
Now running Magick Cleese SMEG for xBukakke 0.4b on VMWare.
Why, I'll never know ...

[Solon]

25. Me too...

I have a tendency to seem like a fan boy of it, but then again, trying to dispense with BS will make anyone seem so. I recently removed Windows from my computer completely, mostly because I was duel booting for a while, but found myself under Linux more than Windows, part of that were games, but then again, my favorite game Neverwinter Nights, has a Linux binary already, and so does Doom3, so what's the point of Windows? Not to mention that I'm not about to shell out 300+ dollars on an office suite when I could use Open Office 2.0 just fine, thank you. I upgraded from Microsoft Word 97, Open Office is definitely better than that, and it will continue to improve as time goes by.

Another thing that I frankly found surprising is this, I chose Ubuntu Linux as my distribution, I downloaded it, burned it, and then popped it in for a spin. Besides the fact that it actually took less time to install on my computer than Windows XP, it actually was easier to install drivers for my Nvidia card, I mean seriously, in Windows XP, gotta boot into VGA mode, install drivers and boot again, then it may work with tweaking. On Linux, downloaded one package from Synaptic, did typed a single command line, hit control-alt-backspace, and boom, done. Re login and Nvidia just works. I was surprised because I heard so much how hard Linux is to setup, but really, is it any harder than Windows. Try to download a Divx movie sometime in windows, without looking for the codecs, and its "update" in Media Player 10 is a joke. So, besides some tweaking, that has to be done in Windows as well, I find it just as easy to do in Linux, and the documentation and community are tons better.

I didn't even talk about my SB Live! card on my computer, on Windows, I lost the freaking CD a year ago, so I have to search for the driver on Creative's website, and the install program didn't even recognize the damned thing!!!! That pissed me off, but under Linux, it just worked. Maybe, in a year or two, the command line, which is probably the ONLY thing holding Linux back from true newbie acceptance, will be delegated to the same level as Windows CMD.

Not to say Linux is perfect, some of the programs available aren't exactly that great(GIMP), but for the cost(0 dollars) they really can't be beat. Open Office, while not offering all the bells and whistles of Microsoft Office simply didn't have that long a development time yet, its catching up, and catching up quickly, so I'm not that concerned, and it is definitely good enough to be useful.

[moggie]

34. Desktop vs server

Whether Linux is ready for the desktop is, of course, a valid question. It's just not particularly interesting to me. My area is general purpose servers, and in that sphere the marketplace has decided, for solid pragmatic reasons, that Linux is fine.

I think there's no compelling reason why a single OS needs to dominate across the board. Real time embedded applications have different requirements from desktops, for example. I understand that Linux is doing quite well in the embedded market, but there are also niche embedded operating systems which will never make an impact on the desktop.

A little diversity is a good thing, I think. I don't want to see a single platform achieve total world domination. I certainly don't want to see an OS owned by one company in that position, particularly a company with a history of unethical (or downright illegal) activity, like Microsoft. But I don't think it would be particularly desirable for a single open-source OS to dominate to that degree either. Monocultures are unhealthy.

[Solon]

35. You bring up a good point...

I agree with you in principle, that is part of the reason I am an advocate for Open source or alternative operating systems. Microsoft is beginning to try "trusted computing" which, if its anything like the shit pulled for Windows XP, simply will further restrict ways in which computers are used, or become persistant annoyances. Not to mention stuff like Sony's rootkit for windows, or its kernel extensions for MacOS X, at least in the Mac's case, you had control, yet in Windows, not at all. What I wouldn't mind is a computer world that is like this, 30% Linux, 30% BSD, 20% Mac, 20% Windows. This would force monopolistic companies like Microsoft to actually think about customer service, rather than worrying about controlling their customer's computers.

[ErisFiveFingers]

32. OMG.. "Io Pan! Io Pan! Yo Adrian!"

Absolutely brilliant. I laughed very long, and hard, over that image... but crowley didn't invent all that much of those words. Pan is a greek god, and Io was a maiden of Zeus. He was big into sex magick, and all...

WRT the security model, one of the reasons Windows is so broken is because it lacks a tight security model, any user can hose a machine.

I'm not a big fan of IDE's, as they provide for too much foot-shooting, and Python... well, whitespace parsing makes me want to... nevermind. (I'm a C/PHP/Perl text editing guy, I guess. Most OO and IDE bloat makes me want to smash things.)

Of course, since it's (likely) OSS, you are free to change the name "Magick Cleese SMEG for xBukakke 0.4b" into "Vital Accounting, 7.1", without any sort of problems. Simply Regexp the original string out before deployment. All you have to do is make a one line regexp available.

[Solon]

24. Its a shame that IBM's blade servers, and of course the fastest...

computers in the world run Linux, I mean, its only a hobby, not like its modeling the Earth for research, or running Apache for 60% of the webpages out there.

[moggie]

29. Including DU

According to Netcraft, DU is hosted on Linux.

[Solon]

30. Learn something new everyday!!!

Thanks for that!!!

[ErisFiveFingers]

26. Kernal?

Kernel upgrades are simple:
1. Install kernel
2. Reboot

If it broke something after reboot, then your software itself is broken. Word processors (and the like) should never be dependant on specific kernels. Having done maybe 50 linux kernel upgrades (been working on linux, on a whole lot of machines, since '99) in my life, I've never seen anything in userland break, beyond crappy wireless network cards.

"The only "stable" version of Linux is the Macintosh OS X"

...Uhm, this is wrong on so many levels.

1. First of all, OS X doesn't use a linux kernel. It uses a MACH kernel.
2. OS X doesn't even use GNU/Linux for it's lower level commands, it opted for using BSD for the Darwin layer.
3. The Aqua layer of OS X doesn't even run under linux.

I think you're confusing Unix and unix clones with linux.

"Hopefully, the new Mac's, which will be using the freely-available Intel chips instead of the weird Motorola processors, will be more available"

The POWER series of processors are an IBM/Motorola joint venture. Macs haven't used Motorola exclusive processors since the 68K->PPC transition days. Now that Intel has caught up and created RISC core chips (as compared to a CISC core design), Apple can chose a better chip. When they were using the POWER chips, it was because they were better than the early Pentiums. Now they're switching because Intel has finally gotten close to catching up with the POWER series of chips.

[area51]

44. unix links

FreeBSD

NetBSD (the real base of Mac OS X)

OpenBSD


<obligatory>MS drools, Unix/Linux rule. :evilgrin: </obligatory>

[jmatthan]

47. This is hilarious!!

"The only "stable" version of Linux is the Macintosh OS X,..."

The Mac OS X uses Unix. Linus Torvald, from my part of the world, Finland, did not invent the Unix system.

This is from Wikipedi:

"The Linus / Linux connection

Torvalds originally used the Minix OS on his system which he replaced with his own OS, Linux (Linus' Minix). However, Torvalds thought the name "Linux" was too egotistical and planned to rename it Freax (a combination of "free", "freak", and the letter X to indicate a Unix-like system). But, before the name was changed, his friend Ari Lemmke encouraged Torvalds to upload Linux to a network so it could be easily downloaded. Ari, however, not happy with the Freax name, gave Torvalds a directory called linux on his FTP server.
In August of 1991, he publicized <1> his creation on the USENET newsgroup comp.os.minix.

Only about 2% of the current Linux kernel is written by Torvalds himself. Despite the relative size of his contribution, Torvalds remains the ultimate authority on what new code is incorporated into the Linux kernel. Torvalds tends to stay out of non-kernel-related debates. The Linux kernel, when combined with software developed by many others, (mainly the GNU system) results in a so-called Linux distribution. Most people refer to this combination as just Linux. However some, including Richard Stallman, refer to it as "GNU/Linux." Torvalds maintains that the name "GNU/Linux" is only justified if you make a GNU-based distribution.
Torvalds owns the "Linux" trademark, and monitors <2> use (or abuse) of it chiefly through the non-profit organization Linux International. Linux's wide and passionate userbase make trademark abuse difficult as it is rapidly detected."

The GUI interface already existed in the Mac as far back as 1984 when I bought my first Mac.

Linus's total dislike of the DOS Microsoft interface (Windows did not exist at that time, was what drove Linus to give his Linux a GUI face.

I sleep peacefully at night as I know that I have NO viruses - thanks to my using the Mac system for the last 22 years! I have NEVER EVER had to call in a IT service engineer to solve problems on my Mac - AND I AM A COMPUTER IDIOT!!

[demobabe]

48. Huh?

Unix has been used in mission critical servers for a looooooong time. Think Sun, and SGI with their IRIX...

Linux is one flavor, Mac's Darwin another... and I have a couple FreeBSD servers that are far more stable than my Microsoft Server with IIS/SQL, etc. I use Macs almost exclusively, and OS X is far more stable than any previous OS for the Mac since the days of version 6.x...

[wtmusic]

55. whatever

More Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux threads than I can remember.

I've programmed machine language on both platforms, and don't have time for Windows. There is nothing on it you can't do better on a Mac, except fight virii and have opportunities to turn your computer off and on. If that's how you like to spend your day, by all means--feed the monster...

[dorktv]

23. Evil comes in hot packages because man I could use some of that.

[MrDale]

38. good discussion...

unfortunatly we are stuck. although i love the simplicity of apple and the over sleek simple looks of apples software and applicatons, this is a windows world. for a web developer like me, i design everything for windows. IE pisses me off to no end. i have spyware on my pc that i just recieved last week that adaware, spybot and microsoft's spyware program cannot get rid off and apyware is super annoying, but...

ive been using firefox because i love the rss feeds and LOVE tab browsing but the IE is SLOW and chunky, and i like speed.

it'll be a LONG time before we see real competition to micrsoft. we just have to deal with gates' bullcrap until then.

just like the republicans, when you have a monopoly or control, you pull any kind of crap that you want.

[kineneb]

42. don't forget CP/M

which was one of the other OS-es that Bill stole/destroyed. Yes, I used to use it, long ago in the mists of time. After breaking 98SE one too many times, I became a happy penguin fan (see avatar).

For some of us, Linux is our only desktop. I also am quite poor and products running on M$ are beyond my price range. I have been using SuSE Professional for several versions and am quite happy with it. OpenOffice, the Gimp, and other programs do what I need. Linux is an excellent choice for those on a restricted budget and/or those dealing with older hardware. The ancient IBM 600E laptop at work happy runs on Linux as a dual boot, although I haven't used the M$ side in some time.


No I am not a computer geek, I am a classical music geek. My favorite music writing application is a low-cost shareware program called Mup ($30). It is so much cheaper than Finale or Sibelius, and produces excellent quality printed music. And it is a cross-platform application.

[thebigidea]

43. "Has anyone seen the mouse for my Amiga?"

[regnaD kciN]

45. I probably have an extra one or two...

...to go with my original Amiga (the 1000), A2000, and A1200.

[BBradley]

46. I once heard Bill Gates was part of some conspiracy to take over the world

then I woke up and realized someone on the internet was blowing things out of proportion.

But seriously man, I heard he bathes in the blood of infants.

[FVZA_Colonel]

49. I'm sorry, but I'm a big gamer,

and until the gaming catalogues of the Macintosh or Linux equal the P.C.'s, I won't be switching.

[regnaD kciN]

50. In case you haven't noticed...

...PC gaming is dying on the vine. (I used to be a game programmer. Believe me, all the action is on the dedicated game boxes now.) Part of this is, also, Microsoft's fault. When they first announced the XBox, we thought it would be great, since you'd be able to easily write the same game for PCs and a major gaming machine. How little we knew! Since bringing out the XBox, Microsoft has encouraged game companies to write for it instead of, not in addition to, PCs.

After the Amiga went out of production, I went with a Wintel platform, since it would handle both the productivity software I needed and the games I enjoyed. Now, if I had to make the same choice, I'd get a Mac or Linux machine for the desktop, and a Playstation for the family room.

[LiberalPersona]

57. It's not just dying

It's basically dead, in the same way that the PS1 was dead when the PS2 was released. In other words, there are still a few games being made but PC gaming is for all intents and purposes, dead.

That became more apparent with the fact that EBGames recently quit selling pre-owned PC games.