US used white phosphorus (Yahoo News) Rate it up

[shraby]

People have to see the story!

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051108/ts_nm/iraq_usa_weapons_dc>

[lakeguy]

1. done! nt

[mctrotter5]

2. Done!

[WiseButAngrySara]

24. Done...Excerpts below. We are a Nation to be so proud of! Torture, Lies,

Chemical Warfare, Mass Murder, Illegal and Immoral War, Corporate Corruption...I'm moving to Canada, though I doubt any decent country would want me!

ROME (Reuters) - The U.S. military in Iraq denied a report shown on Italian state television on Tuesday saying U.S. forces used incendiary white phosphorus against civilians in a November 2004 offensive on the Iraqi town of Falluja.

It confirmed, however, that U.S. forces had dropped MK 77 firebombs --which a documentary on Italian state-run broadcaster RAI compared to napalm -- against military targets in Iraq in March and April 2003.

The documentary showed images of bodies recovered after a November 2004 offensive by U.S. troops on the town of Falluja, which it said proved the use of white phosphorus against men, women and children who were burned to the bone.

"I do know that white phosphorus was used," said Jeff Englehart in the RAI documentary, which identified him as a former soldier in the U.S. 1st Infantry Division in Iraq.

"Burned bodies. Burned children and burned women," said Englehart, who RAI said had taken part in the Falluja offensive. "White phosphorus kills indiscriminately."

The U.S. Marines in Baghdad described white phosphorus as a "conventional munition" used primarily for smoke screens and target marking. It denied using it against civilians.

"Suggestions that U.S. forces targeted civilians with these weapons are simply wrong," U.S. Marine Major Tim Keefe said in an e-mail to Reuters. "Had the producers of the documentary bothered to ask us for comment, we would have certainly told them that the premise of the program was erroneous."

He said U.S. forces do not use any chemical weapons in Iraq.

A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said earlier on Tuesday he did not recall white phosphorus being used in Falluja.

An incendiary device, white phosphorus is also used to light up combat areas. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned by the Geneva Convention since 1980.

The United States did not sign the relevant protocol to the convention, a U.N. official in New York said.

The Falluja offensive aimed to crush followers of al Qaeda's Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said to have linked up with local insurgents in the Sunni Arab city west of Baghdad.

Some Western newspapers reported at the time that white phosphorus had been used during the offensive.

[cyberpj]

3. done. "I do not recall the use of white phosphorus" Lt.Col.Steven Boylan

A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said he did not recall white phosphorus being used in Falluja. "I do not recall the use of white phosphorus during the offensive operations in Falluja in the fall of 2004," Lieutenant Colonel Steven Boylan said.

[Dr.Phool]

7. Done, but the soldier who was in Fallujah

Seemed to remember it pretty clearly. You know, the same guy you were on Democracy Now! with this morning.

I'm so glad this story is getting legs. I was afraid it would be totally ignored. Still nothing from WaPo, or NYT.

[undergroundpanther]

12. I don't recall my ass

PLAUSIBLE DENI ABILITY is the bully fascist's best friend.

Every time some military asshole is hurting people they say ugggh I don't remember. Of course he remembers something that evil anyone would remember it! Trauma is something you remember and spend your whole life trying to forget it,even your brain fights to remember the incidents despite your wanting to get past it and forget to survive.
Trauma comes back years later to FORCE you to remember when you are traumatized that's what PSTD is..we hurt because we can be hurt because we are vunerable because we can step out of ourself feel for others..


There is no pain for those heartlessnarcissistic emotionless empathy-less pieces of shit we call"military bress" that deliberately stir up wars,to inflict trauma on people. Alot of Bully boys grow up to be military thugs who get off on ...Inflicting trauma.
The more sophisticated bullies get off without cost to themselves. Lynne England wthe Abu Gharib bully was given a slap on the wrist because bullies look out for each other they are monsters and they know it so they seek power so they can write the ruules of conduct so they are not the "problem".

These military bullies are morally inferior people doing evil things to the less powerful because that is what they get off on.They replay the horrors they've inflicted themselves or by proxy in their mind for years in their secret ugly thoughts because they ENJOY it.And these sociopaths have no shame when they lie and say "I don't recall" to people who seek to stop the torture.

Every criminal caught never seems to recall thier crimes until they are cornered and have to plea bargain to save thier hides. That's how evil these sociopath pigs are. They put on a mask that convinces most people they are normal but they are pretending they are"normal" when in fact they are very skilled manipulative,violent sociopaths that have an entire nation fooled and a nation paying for weapons that maim and torture,kill and opress, and soldiers who do not question the immorality of authoritry giving them their war porn and supplying them victims and victimizers.War is a racket made for sociopaths to get off on.

[jobycom]

14. Lt. Col. Bubba needs some Ginko Biloba. nt.

[fight4my3sons]

4. Done!

[Eugene]

5. Done.

[LSK]

6. Done

[Larissa238]

8. Done

[drduffy]

9. done

[prescole]

10. ditto...er, done

[Protagoras]

11. Wait Wait it's ok because we didn't SIGN! Read this!

and puke. I am.

"An incendiary device, white phosphorus is used by the military to conceal troop movements with smoke, mark targets or light up combat areas. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned by the Geneva Convention since 1980.

The United States did not sign the relevant protocol to the convention, a U.N. official in New York said."

[donheld]

13. done

:kick:

[oregonindy]

15. this a WAR CRIME. no way to sugar coat it. complete WAR CRIME

[NNN0LHI]

23. Invading a sovereign country is a War Crime n/t

[Tommy_J]

16. Done

There is another thread on this and an Incredible video on the use of white phosphorus in Falluja at Information clearing house.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

WARNING! This movie is Very graphic. A must see if you can stomach it. First few minutes appear to be about Vietnam but that is to provide history of incendiary use.

[methinks2]

17. f***king ba*****s what I don't understand is how any troop

could participate in this murder of civilians. These guys ever hear of Karma, or rule of three? Returns? Good grief. This reminds me of the sh** that went on during our panama invasion. :puke: :wtf:

[northamericancitizen]

18. Done while I wept. I will not watch people melting away!

I will not view this video. I'm not scared or disgusted easily but seeing people melting...

Just to know it is almost unbearable.


This is as bad as gazing people in Germany. The difference is that its a few dozen at a time.

How can we do that to each others?

How long are we going to let this happen?

How can we stop it?

My soul is weeping and when I am hurting that bad I either look for one of my many addictions or for action. (Both make the pain more bearable.)

Today I won't go for a drink or a puff of the white smoke. I want to make a call for action. No, not a call, a fucking scream for action.

I would have put the last sentence in bold but I don't know how. So imagine it in you head, in huge bold letters.

Be indulgent for the way its written.

PEACE
northamericancitizen
lise

[cyberpj]

19. Hope you'll write something very similar to your congresspeople -

I know I did. And left the tear marks on the page with a few 'saved' photos.

Every single one of our congress people need to hear from us on this.

[northamericancitizen]

20. I live in Canada

I have to think of something else. maybe an other "across the World" Peace March

[cyberpj]

21. I'm sure you'll think of something.

Nice to see you here :hi: helping us keep tabs on these fascists.

Maybe just spread it around where you are and help fire up the indignation and outrage. Write LTTEs or something?

[northamericancitizen]

22. I feel it is my "human" duty to spread the word on those fascists.

Many of my friends and family members don't get why I spend so much time on DU and mostly why should I let myself be perturbed by what's happening in the big US of A.

My answer never varied: It concerns all of us. Not only the US is our closest neighbor but its government is bullying the world. Our world.

Being a member of DU, keep me inform and bring me some hope.

[Shallah Kali]

33. Thank you for caring for all people

It is folks like you who don't limit your compassion to your own religious/ethnic/family/social group that will make the world a better place for all people!!!

:grouphug:

[Supersedeas]

43. Karma even if they never heard of it.

[sufrommich]

25. Are the Yahoo

discuss boards after the articles always filled with such right wing nutjobs?

[Cleita]

26. That story makes me sick.

But the raid of Falluja made me sick even when they wouldn't tell us the truth.

[deutsey]

27. I wonder how long it will be until Englehart meets with an accident?

[WiseButAngrySara]

28. K & R!

:kick:

[redacted]

29. done, recommended thread

[dutchdemocrat]

30. I also put the video up encoded in streaming Flash 8 video and WMV file

http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah /

Streaming Macromedia Flash 8 video or download the WMV file.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah /





Here's what Jeff writes... (one of the US military lads in the video).

What I find to be commonplace is the people who label me a traitor, call me a coward, and then accuse me of sedition are always the misinformed, close minded, naïve and ignorant soldiers who have been deceived by their chain of command, from the President all the way down to the lowest level, into believing in a twisted cause to establish a world police force across the globe under the guise of a war against terrorism.

I have received cynical and even very hateful criticism for as long as I have written on this website. It has never deterred my train of thought nor has it frustrated me. By receiving hateful comments is how I know I am doing my part to bring some level of consciousness to the table.

While I was in the army I was labeled a problem simply because I did not believe in the war, and I was vocal about it. What I cannot fathom is the soldiers out there who not only cannot see the obvious truths of this war, but actually get angry when they know of one who disagrees with the military and government’s war-gospel. I never could understand how anyone involved with the Iraqi OCCUPATION could whole-heartedly support it. The foul machinations behind it should be crystal clear, but then again military brain washing is rampant and seems to affect everyone with a myopic scope of reality.

When I was finally caught for my writing in November of last year, the Command Sergeant Major wanted to court-marshal me under his firm belief that what I was writing was “aiding and embedding the enemy”. However, a court-marshal was not possible after our written material was sent through military intelligence and came back clean. You see, my intentions are not to help the Iraqi insurgency but only to raise the awareness of what I went through and what I saw during Operation Iraqi Freedom II.

I do not regret anything I have written, but I do wish to make one thing clear. CPL Mathew Shelberg made a very valid point when he asked, “In what areas of the country did you serve to have "never once saw a terrorist with extreme inclinations for senseless bloodshed"? Does targeting Shia civilians with car bombs count as "extreme" in your eyes? Are the "angry farmers and shop keepers" the people who manufacture the car bombs that have slain thousands of innocent Iraqis?”.

My year of combat from February 2004 through February 2005 was spent with 3rd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division in Baquba, Iraq--centralized in the Sunni Triangle--35 miles northeast of Baghdad. I specifically remember two weeks in the month of July where our sector had the most car bomb attacks in all of Iraq. So I do know the maniacal savagery that was wreaked because of the insurgency’s tactics.

I wish to correct myself by not recognizing car bomb attacks, or any attack that would kill or maim innocent civilians, as indeed an act of terrorism. It is very true that acts of terrorism are occurring in the war in Iraq. But what I would like to make clear is that our involvement in this war is like trying to extinguish a lit match with gasoline. I do not see how terrorism can be snubbed out using conventional warfare. Some of the insurgents’ attacks such as suicide bombers, car bombs, and arbitrary assassinations are unfortunately taking the lives of innocent civilians. This is always wrong. But what needs to be understood is the primary targets of these violent acts are either the Iraqi forces that we empowered or the US military presence exclusively. The Iraqi insurrection, in itself, is what I believe to be an honest rebellion. Because it is a guerrilla war against an illegal occupation enforced by our conventional military force, with far superior weapons and technology, it seems obvious that acts of terrorism are also acts of desperation. One would have to study terrorism for what it is: political violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, carried out for political purposes. One would have to wonder why international factions of terrorist cells, especially those located in the Middle East, would target the people of America. But what is commonly ignored is the role the United States government takes in aggravating terrorist acts through our hegemonic stranglehold on those regions of the world. With no other means to attract world attention for the economic desperation these third-world regions face, and no way to effectively counter a military superpower, it is no wonder these extremist factions choose terrorism to fight back. Is it right? Certainly not, but then again, neither are economic sanctions and the corporate subsidization of localized goods (oil) and services that our government is notorious for generating. Terrorism should never be accepted by any rational person or society and is certainly an immoral act, but to say that the US government is clean of all responsibility of terrorism is very naïve. Like Noam Chomsky says, “The best way to end terrorism is to stop participating in it.”

SNIP

http://www.ftssoldier.blogspot.com /

[Labalanza]

31. A veteran I heard speak confirmed this.

I went to listen to three brave Colorado antiwar vets speak, and one of them who'd been in Fallujah after it was destroyed remarked on the grisly results. Seems white phosphorous burns up anything with any moisuture in it. He described casualties as including: civilian women,the elderly, children,and babies. He also found it haunting that bodies were so thoroughly burnt, yet their clothes would be intact.

[northamericancitizen]

32. Welcome to DU Labalaza

[Swamp Rat]

34. Done n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

35. Done..n/t

[CoffeeCat]

36. Check out the quote...what a bunch of frickin liars!!!!!!

"Suggestions that U.S. forces targeted civilians with these weapons are simply wrong," U.S. Marine Major Tim Keefe said in an e-mail to Reuters.
------

Oh Please!! How much longer will we allow these evil thugs to be held unaccountable for this sickening crimes against humanity?????

The issue is not---as Marine Major Tim Keefe states--that our forces are "targeting civilians with these weapons..."

THE FRICKING ISSUE IS THAT THEY ARE USING THEM AT ALL!!!!

He didn't say they DIDN'T use these weapons. He said they didn't target civilians! No one said you are "targeting civilians".

However, there seems to be a careless, dismissive attitude toward civilians--when you attack the insurgents. You appear to not give a rip that your tactics will undoubtedly kill and maim innocent civilians during this process. That's the point!!

Everyone understands that if you use these weapons against insurgents--whom are dispersed among civilians, villages and places where many innocent men, women and children are---that civilians will become victims of your weapon of choice.

Insurgents are not huddled in one area, in one building. Marine Major Tim Keefe damn well understands that! We all remember what happened with Falluja!! Many citizens remained in their homes. Many women and children--with no where else to go--stayed behind. I knew it. The military knew it. Certainly, Marine Major Tim Keefe understands that.

I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF THE LIES, THE MANIPULATIONS AND THE PUBLICITY STUNTS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT USES TO COVER SUCH DESPICABLE, SICKENING CRIMES!!! I'M SO TIRED OF MY TAX DOLLARS PAYING FOR PURE EVIL!!!

--sorry for the rant. i'm just so disgusted.

[Czolgosz]

37. Finally -- we've found the chemical WMDs in Iraq! It's about time.

[justiceischeap]

38. Done n/m

[callady]

39. kick

Children fleeing a napalm strike, Vietnam , 8 June 1972.




one exerpt showed footage of what looked like cluster munitions used at night. That munition, was in fact, M-825 improved smoke. It's a 155mm artillery delivered obscurant.


This image from video made available by the website of RaiNews24, the all-news channel of Italian RAI state television, as part of a documentary aired in Italy Tuesday, Nov. 8, 2005, which allegedly shows white phosphorous being used by U.S. forces in Iraq in November 2004. The documentary alleges the United States used white phosphorous shells 'in a massive and indiscriminate way' against civilians during the November 2004 offensive in Fallujah. The report said the shells were not used to illuminate enemy fighters at night, as the U.S. government has said, but against civilians.(AP Photo/RaiNews24,ho)

[Pachamama]

40. OMG! I just watched the Italian video story & I feel nauseated....

:puke:

What have they done? What have we become as a nation? The United States of America was supposed to stand for freedom, democracy, truth, human rights and justice....We are signatories to human rights doctrines...we are signatories to bans on the use of chemical weapons....we were told that Saddam Hussein was evil and used chem weapons on his own people...what??? And what are we doing? What have we have done?

May God forgive us all..... :cry:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

41. When did our...

U.S. armed forces become BushCo's private militia? Why is there no revolt from within the military ranks? These are war crimes of the highest order. This must be why they wouldn't give the go ahead on Fallujah until the '04 election results were official.

[peacebird]

42. done - Democracy Now last night ran with this story!

[northamericancitizen]

44. kick.