I've been kicked out of my Dem Club at school

[LiveWire]

After a long battle, I've finally given up. I am a moderate democrat (and former republican in my youth). I told them all this when I came into the club. Over time, the hardcore leftists in the club turned against me. The whispers in the background when I speak are just too much. I've been called a chauvenist, a republican spy, and some things even worse (which could have easily brought the law into the matter). This is just too much for me to handle in my life. I expected members of the Democratic Party to be more mature in a well respected institution, but clearly this is not the case.

After working my ass off fundraising (which I did a damn good job raising a ton of money) the officers basically decided that I was not worth their time. I withdrew the offer, and returned the donations.

I'm really sorry you have to hear all of this. However, it does bring up a great question (especially in DU). Where do moderate Democrats fit in the party? Why should we even bother if we will just be attacked constantly? Most importantly, what is the difference between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans and is this very thin line the reason each wing hates us so much?

[Skidmore]

1. Define "hardcore leftist" for me.

[KurtNYC]

35. As someone familiar with Isla Vista

this website may give you some idea of the local politics. Isla Vista is a small area just north of the UCSB campus (and boy was it fun!)

http://www.islavistahistory.com/ivhistory/chapter7.1.html

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Guy Whitey Corngood]

66. Wait I'm getting somehting......you are male. Am I right?

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

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[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Your profile? n/t

[ChiciB1]

103. Ding! Ding! Ding!!

I'm going to stop now...

There are other threads that need much more attention.

LiveWire... please take time to either watch Online or download Democracy Now with Amy Goodman. Her report of today is covering Fallujah - The Hidden Massacre. It's pretty harrowing and if because I find the report compelling, this will make me "hard core" then so be it.

I actually think I'm more of a "pacifist" because of it.

[stop the bleeding]

2. Maybe a "Moderate" party should be started???? n/t

[Jane Austin]

3. What city and state? n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

4. "hardcore leftist"? nt

[beyurslf]

5. Depends how you define "moderate" Dem. What makes you moderate?

Most moderate Dems I have met here are really traditional Republicans. They just got pushed out of their party by the religious taliban. No reason to assume these new "moderate Dems" can come and change our party.

[FreedomAngel82]

151. Right

In some documentary I saw or a book I read, something like that, it was reported that a lot of moderate and traditional republicans just now call themselves democratic even though they still believe in their traditional ideals and views. They were just uncomfortable with the new republican party.

[WI_DEM]

159. Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were "moderate" dems

so I guess I don't see how they are considered "traditional republicans"?

[Danger Duck]

6. Good luck. You're screwed.

Moderates are not to welcome here, unless your moderation is between extemism(Support of a true socialist state) and the Democratic party platform. In my opinion. I've been flamed for complaining about taxes and the abuse of social programs. Lesson being, know what topics are going to inflame others, and avoid them if possible. No need to start a war.

However, I am curious what moderate positions you espoused that got you booted from the club. Also, why join any party or club like that in college? Did they run out of kegs?

[jsamuel]

204. You were attacked for claiming that you get NOTHING from taxes.

It is a completely different point from claiming that there is government waste.

And there are a few socialists somewhere around here, but 99% of people are wanting a MORE socially responsible Democratic government. That is a big difference also.

[Danger Duck]

207. I was attacked

because people like you would rather take offense then read something as hyperbole, or a dramatic overstatement. But if it makes you feel better, I kick puppies. Come and get me.

[AX10]

7. I find your story hard to believe.

The Democratic establishment has shunned any thing that is not "moderate" since the DLC became prominant in the early 1990's.
If anything, its the "left" that has been discriminated against. I too am a moderate and feel at home with the Democrats.

:dem:

[Name removed]

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[DS1]

48. It's written just like a thousand other "I'm disappointed" emails

I'm just surprised there's no "Imagine my surprise, when" sentence starters.

:boring:

[seabeyond]

8. being a moderate, not dem or repug, i ask you..... are you a chauvenist

why were you not able to get along. because though i live conservatively, am pro business ect..... i get along fine. need more info

[LSK]

9. what exactly makes you a moderate? n/t

[AlCzervik]

10. hmmm, "Hardcore Leftists" yeah, i'd be wary of you as well.

nice talking point though.

[Walt Starr]

11. I don't buy it

Sorry, I don't buy your story for a minute.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

22. LOL, neither do I.

My only question is, was the story made up merely for fun? Or was the OP hoping that Michelle Malkin linked to it? :)

[More Than A Feeling]

12. I had this experience too

don't worry about it. Intern for a candidate or an incumbent democrat. Get involved outside the campus club. If some people want to hate you on the basis of unfounded rumor, that is really their problem. You don't need them.

[LuckyTheDog]

38. I agree

There really IS room for all kinds of Democrats. The club you describe seems dysfunctional. Spend your time with grown-ups in the ACTUAL Democratic Party.

[FreedomAngel82]

157. I do agree

I think clubs are fun and all that but if you really want to get involved than you can make new friends in other settings. I would rather spend time working for a canidate than totally in a club where few things probably get done. Of course I don't know how the club was or anything.

[maxsolomon]

13. what is a moderate democrat?

what is a moderate republican? i truly don't know what they mean nowadays.

when you feel attacked & vilified as treasonous, intolerant naifs, which anyone to the left of your "very thin line" has been for, oh, 25 years or so, you become clannish & suspicious of those who would compromise.

[maxsolomon]

14. delete

[maxsolomon]

15. delete

[Marr]

16. Still waiting for the definitions of "moderate" and "hardcore leftist".

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[WilliamPitt]

28. Bullshit

I'd be interested in your definition. Seeing as how the mean old hardcore leftists have scourged you from their midst.

[Name removed]

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[LSK]

46. "the government should stay out of business alltogether"

And do you believe this or not?

[seabeyond]

47. we own business and i often see many people lump all business

in with the corporations of greed. and corporations are different than they were two decades ago too. since reagan taking away restrictions, business no longer has the regulation they need to not abuse both people and employee.

i hear what you are saying. sound like a huge oh well to that democratic party and sorry they went so far.

[BeTheChange]

96. Uh oh.. you have money, a religious background..

and are a male head of a greek org...heh... you might as well just put leper on your back and provide the stones. Priveledge has no place in liberalism... didnt you get the memo? ;)

Now seriously.. you gotta either be prepared to fight or just go ahead an let the assholes further radicalize the group. You must weigh what is most important to you. What I think is so incredibly sad is when a group of people that are supposed to be like minded, or atleast open minded, forces you to become completely combative and argumentative in order to fight for your position. Alot of people think thick skins and hardened hearts are more effective then logic, compassion and open hearts. We are becoming so belligerant and close minded as a culture it is freaking frightening. Anyone that doesnt fit into our exact box that we have painted on how a dem, or woman, or mom, or dad, or doctor, lawyer, yadda yadda should be simply isnt said affiliation. They are an abomination and should be ridiculed immediately. Sadly, it's not just in political realms. And...It is happening on both sides of the aisle.

Find another org to get involved in, Im sure they will appreciate your fundraising connections and there are many dem and liberal orgs that you would fit right in with.

Good luck. Dont let the bastards get you down.

[seabeyond]

99. i couldnt agree with you more bethechange thank you

for your words. gosh, just couldnt agree more. and i love your name

[BeTheChange]

126. Thanks, nice lady..

I always like your posts.. you have a kind heart and its such a refreshing change of pace to see sometimes around here:)

[the other one]

114. I call Bullshit!

Its not gay marriage, its equal protection under the law. Its not abortion, its the right of individuals to control their own reproduction system. Its not about enjoying the forests, its about having a clean and livable environment.

You are taking the opposite side of RNC talking points, not expressing any real positions. The Dems are not the opposite of talking points, they are a completely different way of looking at objective reality. And you don't look at it that way.

I call Bullshit.

[seabeyond]

119. would have said pro choice, gay marriage and clean air, personally

[Name removed]

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[mtpWriter]

124. Good grief. You know what he meant.

All you did was change the wording, accuse him of twisting talking points. Hmmm. The irony is thick here.

Weak attempt at piling on the witch hunt.

[Name removed]

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[mtpWriter]

134. I'm trying to defend you, man. LOL

[Fescue4u]

172. OMG! He used the wrong words

Out you devil Child! If one cannot use the politically correct annointed terms deemed by "real" democrats, then one is not worthy.

He might as well join the KKK and start voting Republican. He is beyond redemption.

[tx_dem41]

67. Not challenging, but I think its impossible to define for ourselves..

but easy to define it when it pertains to someone else. For example, I am moderate on some issues (economics) and pretty hard-core left on others (choice, death penalty, civil/human rights). So, what am I? I see the conflict within me, so I choose to not define myself, because I pin myself down ideologically. Others, looking at me, will gladly define me.

[greyl]

92. Some people call the DU the ReichWing.

It's possible livewire is dealing with that kind of fringe mentality.

[seabeyond]

102. again, calif and youth all. and really pissed off kids of a govt

run amuck. and calif, bah hahahah

i am a calif, grew up htere, went to college there, late 70's 80's. was a blast

[greyl]

117. I don't know if you agree or disagree. nt

[seabeyond]

123. lol lol cause these kids i just like seeing them particpate

even if extreme and i believe livewire and hear his story. not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, i dont do either, lol lol. i try to understand though

i was conservative when i lived in calif
i am liberal living in panhandle of texas.

i dont do group well
i just want repugs to get their ass kicked

[Name removed]

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[seabeyond]

125. monterey, san diego and was

acceptable at slo, just didnt go

on edit though, i was late 70' early 80's reagan youth. until after he was elected, i got older and started, well seeing, lol

[Name removed]

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[seabeyond]

41. k, youa re going to school in calif, lol lol with activist youth

of a democratic party that is totally active and pissed. if you evern believe in capitalism i imagine they will call you rw. lol lol. and being a pres of a faternity, well,...... maybe there is some male shot going on pissing off a bunch of women that are losing a whole hell of a lot of their rights because of stupid male stuff

and you are in calif, lol lol

i am a calif living in texas now. grew up there though

[Name removed]

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[Marr]

105. I'm assuming debate isn't part of your school's curriculum.

You certainly will need to define those terms if you want to make an argument like this.

[BlueEyedSon]

17. What are you politics?

[gollygee]

18. What is a "leftist"?

let alone a hardcore one?

Does that make republicans "rightists?" Why don't I ever hear anyone calling anyone that?

[AlCzervik]

23. Bill O'reilly and Hannity say it a lot.

[gollygee]

27. Then it's a propaganda term?

in which case, why is a democrat using it?

[AlCzervik]

32. i would say so and i don't know to the second part.

[Name removed]

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[AlCzervik]

34. well you heard it somewhere and i guess you think it's worth repeating

[Name removed]

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[AlCzervik]

52. Hey! Good for you but calling people "Hard core" anything is a bit

insulting.

[gollygee]

60. Well, just please change your language a bit

now that you know the word "leftist" is right-wing propaganda, please don't use it.

Use of words like that might have been what tripped the dem club radar. Maybe you can apologize and claim ignorance on that and things will go better.

[Name removed]

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[gollygee]

100. Ignorance doesn't mean idiot

Don't be so denfensive. If you were ignorant about the political language, it doesn't make you an idiot. Ignorant just means "didn't know." You can be ignorant about one thing without being ignorant about everything.

[mtpWriter]

108. Don't let anyone tell you how to speak.

I don't know what you apologized for (I haven't read all the posts in this thread) but I hope it wasn't for what you said. To the best of my knowledge you didn't attack anyone personally, didn't use racial slurs or anything like that. The people who are dictacting your speech should try to employ some of that "tolerance" they claim to possess.

[gollygee]

111. He used right-wing propaganda language in a dem. club

I don't think it should be illegal for god's sake, but it is not a way to make friends. He's wondering why people there don't like him. Maybe it's because he's talking like Bill O'Reilly?

[Name removed]

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[gollygee]

132. I thought it was possible that they'd picked up a vibe that you didn't

intend to put out.

I know on college campuses there are often a lot of very left dems, and that as a more moderate dem you might be sending out signals they are picking up and misunderstanding. It's just a communication thing really.

[mtpWriter]

130. Doubt it. Strange accusation to make with no proof.

[gollygee]

136. Accusation? Proof?

Huh? He said that they didn't like him, and he used the word leftist.

What are you talking about?

[Name removed]

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[gollygee]

145. self-delete

Sorry- I think this broke a du rule.

[mtpWriter]

143. This

He used right-wing propaganda language in a dem. club gollygee Nov-08-05 07:13 PM #111

Where did you get the idea that he used RW propaganda in the club?

[gollygee]

148. If he used the word "leftist" here

he might have used it there.

I don't know that he did, but if he sends off that vibe here he might very well be sending it out at hte dem club.

[mtpWriter]

152. It just looked to me like you

accused him of doing something for which you had no proof.

And I'm assuming that you aren't talking about me (using the word 'leftist') in your last response to him, correct?

[gollygee]

158. It wasn't an accusation

I was trying to understand with him what his problem was with the other dems at his college democratic club.

As for the other post - I deleted it because it broke a DU rule and to continue to discuss it would I would also be breaking a DU rule.

[mtpWriter]

162. Not only did it possibly break a rule...

it was a completely baseless comment. For that reason, I'm glad you deleted it.

[greyl]

195. Do a DU search for the word "leftist". nt

[Name removed]

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[jane_pippin]

168. Are you talking only about the word "hardcore?"

Lots of people use that word to signify intensity or dedication without hearing it from right wing lunatics.
As in:
"I ran a mile for the first time in a while yesterday and now my legs hurt hardcore!"
or
"Jimmy loves the rock and roll. He is hardcore. Dude."

I see where you're coming from but for a college student to describe someone as a hardcore anything isn't unheard of. Maybe it's nothing to get upset about.

Not being able to define the terms used in the original complaint, however, just might be part of our friend's problem.

[gollygee]

170. No - I'm talking about the word "leftist"

he didn't appear to realize that it is a propaganda term and if he used it around the (more left) dems in his dem club and they did realize it's a propaganda tool, that could have caused a pretty serious communication problem.

[jane_pippin]

175. Oh. Gotcha. However, I have to say that I had no idea that

leftist was in and of itself a propaganda term either. I know O'Rielly and the rest of his ilk like to bandy it about as if it were a horrible word, but they can cram it. I also know some people who do call themselves leftists (mostly in a retro-esque jokey way, but still).

Well you learn something new every day don't you. :shrug:

[gollygee]

180. Have you ever heard the term "rightist"?

If it were just a descriptive term there'd be an opposite.

[jane_pippin]

183. I see what you mean. I'm just saying I never thought it was

exclusively a propaganda term.

[Mountainman]

44. I don't think any of us call ourselves hard core leftists.

I don't even think we call ourselves leftists. We are liberals, progressives and Dems (moderate and left leaning.)
Use of the terms "hardcore leftists" can lead to people being suspect of your story because those are terms used by the right to define us.

I have a lot of trouble with the right's definition of us. It is not usually accurate. It is more a bunch of words used to stir up their followers.
"Hardcore leftists" is synonymous with communists or socialists in the minds of the right wing. There are very few of us who would call themselves communists or socialists.

If you think that group was communist and you do not support communism, then you are probably better off.

Why can't a group have all points of view welcome? For the same reason I can't post my thoughts on freerepublic.

[Name removed]

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[wellst0nev0ter]

121. Heh, If It's On A College Campus, I Can See Where You're Coming From

You probably have to deal with the PETA types, and those who use Max Weber as THE guiding path though social sciences or those that are fanatical and self-righteous about whatever pet issues they have that they don't allow much for deviation.

No, I don't hate those types, I just find them annoying at times.

[DebJ]

19. Maybe you should live in Pennsylvania. I just moved here from

Maryland about 2.5 yrs ago. Most of the activists are left wingers, like myself. But most of the voters in my area would seem to fit your self-description. At least one in 5 dems I called last year voted for Bush because they want (Christian) prayer in schools. And abortion is murder, but war is not. It is okay to kill and maim young American men and women and innocent Iraqi children by the 1000's...they are at war with Muslims; they do not believe in freedom of religion. They have no desire to help the inner city poor children, and they avoid going in the city at all. Sorry I am ranting ... but a Pa Dem is a Md Republican. You might be comfortable here.

[BurtWorm]

21. How "moderate" are you?

Why do you call yourself a moderate?

[Lex]

24. What are the specific issues that makes you a "moderate"

as opposed to a "hardcore" leftist.

There must be specific issues where you differ and I am curious about what they are.

[Jed Dilligan]

25. What part of

a progressive tax system, social security, racial equality, women's rights, gay rights, and strict environmental regulations are you against?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

30. I'm sorry to hear...

...that you had to endure that experience. Hopefully, you won't let it dampen your healthy spirit of political activism. People are so angry and frustrated over what BushCo has done to our country, and sometimes they vent this anger (irrationally) on whoever happens to be convenient. I suspect you may have been on the receiving end of this kind of venting.

Keep active. You will find like minded Dems to work with.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

31. What can I say? That sucks. n/t

[itzamirakul]

33. Join the DLC or call Joe Lieberman.

I think either place could give you some good advice about finding people who CALL themselves Moderate Democrats.

[BJW]

37. All I Can Say

Is that I am happy to see that you are very interested in politics, and it sounds like you want to continue being active. With that said, generally politics is not for the thin-skinned, and criticism of one's positions and policies, however unfair, is pretty much non-stop.

If there aren't other suitable alternatives, I'd like to encourage you to take a break from this particular group, and then go back to it with a different mindset.

Look at it as practice. Read up on logical fallacies, sharpen your arguments and rhetorical arsenal, read up on political theory and strategies and group social interactions. Look at it as an opportunity for you to learn how to analyze and criticize and to be analyzed and criticized, how to argue and be argued with, and how to maneuver and be maneuvered.

In short--don't go into a political group with the expectation that people aren't going to be political--learn and practice the art and sport of politics instead.

[ChiciB1]

40. IMO... This Is A VERY Suspicious Post!!

I'm a Liberal, but I don't define myself as "hard-core" so the terminology raises my eyebrows somewhat.

Perhaps we're dealing with a "youngster" here who hasn't honed his political tactics yet. The usage of "hard-core" makes me wonder.

I could be wrong, but I will say... MOST LIBERALS welcome everyone!!

Look the word up in the dictionary!!!

[Name removed]

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[ChiciB1]

74. 353 POSTS Don't Constitute Years!!

I have over 2500 and have only been here since Oct. 2004!

[BeTheChange]

104. Wow.. some people have life to live..

They dont just sit around and post on DU. It is against the rules to make the post you did above. Im not going to alert on you.. but for shame.

[tx_dem41]

115. Ouch! Be sensitive to my feelings...

you and I joined within 3 days of each other, yet I have 4 times the number of posts that you have. Hanging my head in shame.

[Name removed]

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[tx_dem41]

142. Don't worry...I was actually responding to someone else's post..

btw, hang in there...you're doing pretty good handling the buzzsaws on the forum.

[BeTheChange]

138. Well, by all means.. if you have something important to say, then say it..

if DU serves as an important outlet for you, interact with it.

I didnt mean to hurt your feelings. I just dont appreciate it when people equate post count of a poster who they disagree with to their democratic views.

Some people dont talk as much as I do and that is okay. Some people talk more and that is okay too.

[tx_dem41]

147. I was just speaking lightheartedly...no offense taken.

and I agree with your views on post count (well, maybe above single digits :) )

[BeTheChange]

160. Doesnt compute..

no offense taken? Holy crap.. are you sure? Are you absolutely positive? Cause you'd be one of the few in this thread that hadnt taken offense about something.

Can I interest you in some alternate offensiveness?

:hug:

[Walt Starr]

146. Correction, you've been posting here for *YEAR*

Plural requires two or more, and you have not been here for two or more years, so says your profile.

[Name removed]

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[Walt Starr]

161. Son, you CAN't alter this entry in your profile

Member since Jul 22nd 2004

That means you've been posting here for just over a YEAR which makes your statement that you've been posting here for YEARS false on its face.

[BeTheChange]

167. Geezer, way to make him feel welcome..

Doesnt feel nice when someone talks down to you, does it.. Son? Why would you even do that over someone adding an S? Maybe the young man has been here for years looking around and only decided to register 1.25 years ago. Is it really worth getting all upset about and talking down to him about?

Goodness.. how does one say Ive been posting here for 1.25 years?

Is it year, or years? Does it fucking matter? What the hell does that accomplish?

[Walt Starr]

182. The implication in the post is he's been here since before Nov 8, 2003

which is a false implication.

So yes, it matters.

[BeTheChange]

194. How do you know what he is implying?

Nobody said anything about election day 2003. I think your mind may be one of the few that is drawing that implication. What if this young man couldn't vote on Nov 8th 2003? Is the opinion and alliance of our youth not wanted by this party?

So he got a little vague when being attacked.. maybe he didnt use the words that you would have used.. Im sorry, but it just boggles my mind why you would pick that as some weird point of contention.

[Walt Starr]

197. sorry, but the wording itself implies 2 or more years.

A fraction of the year added to a year is more than a year, not years.

[ChiciB1]

173. Hey Walt....

I was just told that pointing out this "fopah" was against the rules!

Now, I readily admit I have made a few mistakes about rules because I'm usually too busy posting and haven't read all of them. Just scanned them. My BAD!!!

I guess I'll have to go back and check things out.... still I WAS the first one to voice the opinion, so thanks for the help.

[Fescue4u]

178. technicaly anything over a year is years

IF its 1.1 then he has been posting for 1.1 years.

But its just semantics which really don't matter anyway.

[Walt Starr]

184. Look at the post subject line again

The implication is he's been here for two or more years, not 1.25 years. Had he been implying the latter, the terminology would have been "I have been posting here for over a year."

[Perky]

56. When you say most liberals

I assume you are not including those who revile people of all faiths as morans.

[ChiciB1]

80. I Don't Suppose I Fit Into That Category Of Liberal!

I'm more a "kill 'em with kindness" type Liberal!

Always be nice, but know your subject and present your point in an intelligent manner!!! I will admit to the fact that I have SERIOUS SERIOUS issues with this Administration simply because I think they have LIED for so long. But that DOES NOT make me "hard-core!"

Works most of the time!

[BeTheChange]

107. Heh.. Perky..

They really got under your skin with the religion bashing, eh? I too can relate to the OP :) I dont "religion" right according to some.

[maximovich]

112. lol....

Here we go...

[Perky]

156. Hey...I stoppped short....lol (n/t)

[NorthernSpy]

72. I have occasionally been treated with suspicion by some activists...

Apparently, I "don't look like" a Lefty.

:eyes:

But I don't encounter that sort of suspicion in my own state, because progressive politics are quite mainstream here -- rather than being solely the province of a university-centered activist subculture, as in some other places.

[tx_dem41]

85. You're kidding...right?

If your definition is true, what about some of the "liberals" on this forum. Its a witch hunt sometimes.

[seabeyond]

118. ah hahahahahahahaha....have you met some of our hardcore

on this board. lol lol. i have. we have butttt heads at times. so funny. i am a believer, youth and calif personally

[Armstead]

42. IMO a start might be to refer to them as jerks instead of "leftists"

A jerk is a jerk is a jerk, regardless of ideology.

If you believe the members of your Democratic Club are acting like jerks, you should not use an ideological label. Just say they're jerks.

There are plenty of people who are on the left side who may be radical in their views but also are accepting and open minded about those who are more "moderate." And vice versa -- many moderates get along fine with those who are further to the left.

If, in fact, your Democratic Club is dominated by narrow minded jerks who will disrespect you simply because of your beliefs, you should not react in similar manner by tarring their behavior as being "hardcore leftists." Their immaturity has nothing to do with their ideology.

[Name removed]

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[Armstead]

94. "Jerk" would suffice

That gets the point across. :)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

171. Wow.

The more I read this thread, the better it gets.

"Jerk" = "this kind of profanity?" :rofl:

[mtpWriter]

43. A friend and I both stopped attending the

Liberal Club on campus. They didn't kick us out nor do I think they would have. But it just got to be too much...

The group was run by what I call "Turbo Liberals" who have to take on every damn issue on the planet. You can agree with them on the major issues in this country but if you don't put a "Free Tibet" sticker on your car and write letters to companies about animal testing and attend every single march/protest for every obscure cause in the world, then you aren't a "true liberal." That's about what these people were like.

My argument was, why not pick four or five big issues, concentrate on them, and focus on winning what you can RIGHT NOW instead of spreading yourself so thin. All that does is elevate the issue of how workers are treated in Iceland to the level of providing health care to all Americans.

Focus people.

Plus it just makes them look stupid and hollow. All they really cared about was TALKING liberal and that's why they had to have the same intensity on every issue they could dream up.

[Name removed]

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[ChiciB1]

68. What ARE Your Issues?????

Personally, I agree with others here.... YOU are being Very Coy.

Perhaps I could commiserate with you a little more if you would "expand" on your views a little bit.

What issues did you disagree with??

I live in a "very" conservative part of the country and find the local Democrats a bit "light" but they haven't kicked me out!

[mtpWriter]

87. For what (little) it's worth...

I think you made your case. There are some people you aren't going to convince no matter what you tell them. And that's fine. Just time to move on.

My major issues are (in this order):
1. Health Care for all Americans
2. Stopping the war in Iraq
3. Environment
4. Jobs

The reason I think it's important to pick a few issues and concentrate on them is the same reason why politicians do it. You can't do everything! And if you try, you will spread yourself so thin you are likely to fail in all of it. Pick a few things and win them. Then, when the time comes, add something to the list.

The poeple in that group I mentioned were more interested in their IMAGE than they were in results. It was obvious. A waste of time.

I guess the fact that I am not against the death penalty means I'm a conservative. And the fact that I support spending cuts in some areas (before raising taxes)... That's what I was told. Regardless of me being liberal about 90% of the time and having MUCH more in common with Democrats. Oh well. Screw those people, they weren't accomplishing anything anyway. :)

[Name removed]

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[NorthernSpy]

49. if "moderate" means backstabbing loyal Democratic constituencies...

... then I'd have been the first to shoo you out the door.

Of course, all of this hinges on your definitions of "moderate" and "hardcore leftist". I do wonder why you're being so coy about defining your terms.

[Perky]

51. I for one beleive you.

There is substantial intolerance in both wings. But here is the diference:

The right wing want to run the country and the left wing is content to run the party.

[Name removed]

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[tx_dem41]

57. Hang in there LW...People at the ends of the spectrum

are often doomed to marginalize themselves. You can try to keep it from happening, but ultimately its up to them.

[SmokingJacket]

58. A lot time people with abrasive personalities don't realize it.

I'm not saying you have one; obviously I have no idea.

But I believe it's just as likely that your rejection was personal as it was political.

[NNN0LHI]

61. Name an elected official who you consider moderate

And also one who you would consider a hardcore leftist. Thanks in advance.

Don

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[WilliamPitt]

73. "Hardcore Leftist=Lyndon LaRouche"

You have A LOT to learn, chief.

Try Tom Hayden on for size.

[Mr_Spock]

190. This book is by Lyndon LaRouche...

He's a funny guy. "Children of Satan" :rofl:

[mitchtv]

199. ooooooo I love Tom Hayden

guess that makes me an HCL( hard core leftist)
we can thank moderate dems for ousting Gray Davis ( was he a leftist?) and voting for Herr Boobengrabber.
For you live wire, good luck. since this party is infested with moderates, I think there is plenty of room for you. College maybe not, but a regular Dem party would love you, especially in So Cal.

[seabeyond]

i said something to father about shay and mccain

dad said, they are liberals, lo lol

[Norquist Nemesis]

77. ummmm....well....

Sorry. I was with you till you cited John McCain as your moderate benchmark. Considering McCain was the one out shilling for Bush and all...well.

You might want to don your flamesuit.

[Name removed]

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[Norquist Nemesis]

84. See #82 below

:)

[tx_dem41]

90. If you haven't learned yet...you soon will.

There is no politician (or person for that matter) whom you will every completely agree with. I wish more people could learn that lesson.

[Protagoras]

95. So Moderate = Republican?

I'm also a bit confused by the two examples since neither are actually Democrats (LL calls himself all sorts of things) and McCain is most certainly well within the Republican Party.

We were talking about being a Democrat...a moderate democrat...dealing with other Democrats...on Democraticunderground right?

I'm suspecting this is a lot more about emotional disregulation than it is about politics.

Peace

[AntiCoup2K4]

110. Not only that.... he couldn't even get McCain's name right.

Not much of a fan, I guess.

[NorthernSpy]

89. Lyndon Effing LAROUCHE?

LaRouche hasn't been a leftist of any kind -- "hardcore" or otherwise -- for over 30 years!

According to Public Eye:

The Lyndon LaRouche network, an offshoot of the radical student movement that metamorphosed into a fascist organization in the early 1970s, developed an idiosyncratic doctrine and approach quite different from other far-right groups.

Though often dismissed as a bizarre political cult, the LaRouche organization and its various front groups are a fascist movement whose pronouncements echo elements of Nazi ideology. Beginning in the 1970s, the LaRouchites combined populist antielitism with attacks on leftists, environmentalists, feminists, gay men and lesbians, and organized labor. They advocated a dictatorship in which a “humanist” elite would rule on behalf of industrial capitalists. They developed an idiosyncratic, coded variation on the Illuminati Freemason and Jewish banker conspiracy theories. Their views, though exotic, were internally consistent and rooted in right-wing populist traditions....

Tell me: these people that you've been having this conflict with -- are they followers of LaRouche?


If so, that's a bad situation.


:think:

[Mr_Spock]

191. LaRouche is funny...

:rofl:

[Walt Starr]

140. those are the whackiest definitions I've ever seen

Now I am positive your story is less than forthright.

[WI_DEM]

166. You need to research McCain's record

he is hardly a moderate. He is also very much pro-Iraqi war and anti-choice.

[NNN0LHI]

177. It appears I have asked the right question

You wouldn't be around my Democratic club long either if it were up to me.

Don

[Susang]

198. WTF?

Are you serious?

You have a lot to learn about politics if you consider John McCain a moderate and Lyndon LaRouche a hardcore leftist. :eyes:

[Ladyhawk]

64. There is room for moderates in the Dem Party, but not for corporatists.

That my opinion and it's worth exactly what you paid for it. ;)

I have no problem with moderate folks. In fact, I don't toe the left-wing line on a few issues. Mostly, I just keep my mouth shut about them because I rather dislike being flamed.

The one area where I think most people on the left should agree with each other is populism. The corporations have attained personhood and they're screwing over the common folk, while telling them it's good for them. That's where the main battle lies and hopefully we're all in agreement when we see that corporate power is an ill omen.

[seabeyond]

71. i ahve a small business do i have to go. my father, lots of

small business. i support his efforts.

so the corporatists, there may have to be some clarification. what bush is doing with corporations and reagan, no not liberal. but john kerry was a business owner nad supports business too, we like him

[Name removed]

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[Bridget Burke]

75. Hardcore leftists?

Sorry, I'm not buying, either.

[Name removed]

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[gWbush is Mabus]

91. i believe you

but I too would like to know what the hell you said to get kicked out of the Dem club.

did you tell them that you are pro-using chemical weapons on falluja?
or
did you tell them that you would personally prefer to pay less taxes rather than more taxes?

it makes a difference to me what the issue was.

[ChiciB1]

93. Be More Agenda Specific!!

That would help ME lot! Why did you lock horns and why were they so crass by not listening to you???

You might get some agreement here if you would simply reveal the "whys!"

How can you expect those of here at DU NOT to be suspicious after all we've seen going on these past 5 years??? I happen to live in Florida and will readily admit my hackles get raised by simple "sound bites" because I see and hear far too much of it.

[Bridget Burke]

97. In my youth, Hardcore Leftist meant SDS, etc.

Please offer details on the Hardcore Left policies that you disagreed with.

[Norquist Nemesis]

82. Instead of defining 'moderate' and 'hardcore', let's begin with this

Which Democratic Party issues do you support? What is it that leads you to 'lean left'?

Truth is, I suspect there are plenty of people that consider themselves "moderate" on both sides. But politics seem to go from 0 to 60 in .0009 seconds on the over the top hyperbole. All of a sudden, you're "with us or against us". Feelings get hurt and people are alienated. This is from both sides.

So, can we maybe start with what you support and build from there?

[Name removed]

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[Armstead]

135. If you believe all that, then I repeat my point above about "jerks"

Your differences with the members of your club have more to do with personal issues than politics.

You shouldn't cast personality clashes as political ones.

[Name removed]

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[mitchtv]

203. I don't support abortion, but I support reproductive choice

no wonder you run into trouble.Gay marriage? is that like marriage equality?

[Norquist Nemesis]

154. Wow!

By those, you'ld be "Hardcore Left"! *wink*

By looking at your list, all of the 'don't support' are things that are publiCONS are beating the drums for ad nauseum! So, it seems to me that you're firmly in the Democratic camp. :shrug: ...execpt for the John McCain benchmark.

Confession: I think in many ways, McCain is more moderate than the majority of the Republican Party of today. But, IMO, he's not a moderate politician. JMHO.

At this point, it almost sounds like your experience may have been more of a conflict of personalities. You've volunteered your time and effort in support of Democratic causes, and for whatever reason, your perception is that it's never enough. (Not saying you're wrong with that perception, just saying.)

But here's my sage advice (for what it's worth): Use this experience to your advantage. Join a Meetup group, or start one of your own! Stay active, involved, and informed. We need you LiveWire!! Hang in there! :hug:

[BurtWorm]

185. If that's moderate, I hope "moderation" proliferates.

I don't see anything in there qualifying you to have scorn heaped on you by Democrats.

In my experience, "moderates" are frequently pro-war on terror, pro-nation-building in Iraq, cool to choice, cool to labor, warm to "free trade," cool to poverty programs. The only thing that smacks the least bit of "moderation" is your apparent stance on immigration. I don't know what you mean by UN reform either. But in most respects, you'd qualify as a commie in freeperville.

[Pirate Smile]

206. Looking at your list - you're just a straight up Dem. You are probably

too liberal to be called a Moderate.

Sorry about your trouble. There is probably something else going on - personality conflicts, etc.

Don't get down. DU can be pretty tough too. :)

[DanCa]

83. The problem with labels is that they suck.

A label is something that others choose to define you with. Me I have voted in RNC primairies to get the fundamentalist off the ballot. I also voted for Ross Perot. Does that make me a moderate? Oh the last repub that I voted for was John Mccain. I didn't like the attacks on the primairy. Oh and btw I voted straight Dem for president since the Perot thing.
Live Wire I am sorry you were treated badly by people that want to purify the pond so no one can live it. Hang in there I know how you feel. Labels dont just suck they also swallow.

[greyl]

113. haha :) nt

[m_welby]

101. fanatics are fanatics

doesn't matter which party.

I think of myself as a moderate and from your posts on this thread you seem to have reasonable positions. Often extremists don't (or can't) listen to any other position but their own.

Don't let them get you down, moderate dems fit in just fine, but expect to be flamed now and then here.

But you aren't alone.

[newportdadde]

106. Every group with have elements you will not get along with.

Thats type of thing comes with a group dynamic. For instance my primary concern that has always drove me to the Democratic Party has been economic issues. Now I would probably vote the same as say a PETA protestor, for the same candidates. But that PETA protestor may see me as being too conservative and I see them as too fringe for me because I personally don't proactively champion their cause. But thats just priorities and we are much closer then either of us would be if we met up with a RW voter.

Another example is the pledge, there are folks here very passionate about the pledge and the phrase 'under god'. Personally I don't go to church, I don't think you need to inorder to be a good person or go to 'heaven/afterlife/oblivion', if I want to read the bible I just pick it up and look myself. The pledge though doesn't bother me and when my non-baptised kids say it in class :shrug: no biggie I don't care. That doesn't mean I don't get the opinions of folks who are passionate about it just means that particular issue has a lower priority for me. That doesn't make them 'hardcore' any more then PETA folks it just means we aren't all a bunch of clones.

One of the things that makes the Democratic Party and DU great is that it is very inclusive. We have athiests, Christians, economic populists and free market capitalists such as yourself, all kinds here. Those fractions can lead to some infighting you see it here, but still we all have so much in common we can work through them.

[asjr]

109. Labeling someone as a "radical", "leftist",

"hardcore", etc. doesn't mean crap. We are not labels; we are citizens of this country and can vote as we wish. No one has any control over your vote except you. We all here at DU do our own thing. Sometimes someone gets pissed off, but you can say anything you wish. You may become agitated with us but that goes with the territory. DUers want what is best for our country. Honesty, above-board, sympathetic, empathetic and we call them like we see them--politicians, no matter which party. We are not cookie-cutter characters and that is what makes us DUers. If you lean Democratic, stay with your organization and try to make the others understand. If you are not able to then tell them goodbye.

[Chicago Democrat]

129. I'm sorry...

Stupid moderate!


(Kidding!)


DEMOCRATIC REVOLUTION WORLDWIDE! DEATH TO ALL MODERATES!!!!


(jk)


Leibermann Sucks!!!


NOAM CHOMSKY FOR PRESIDENT!!!

[YouthInAsia]

ummmm tasty.

:popcorn:

[YouthInAsia]

133. ummmm tasty.

:popcorn:

[alcibiades_mystery]

141. Hoooo boy would I love to hear the other side of this story

As it stands, you sound just about self-righteous enough that i wouldn't hang out with you, that's for sure.

[FreedomAngel82]

144. I'm sorry for your troubles

Please know not all of us are like that. :hug: I think someone talked about this on a show I heard where all the moderates in the country are feeling left out. :( That's one reason why I love the democratic party. We're all sorts. I do see though in a way where they're coming from. It's hard to know who to trust now days. Paranoia runs high with all of us sadly. :( The Bush administration did this to us with sending spies into leftist groups and everything. *sigh* :( :hug:

[VOX]

150. What'd you do to earn the sobriquets "chauvenist,"(sic) "republican spy,"

"and some things even worse...?" Just curious how you were perceived.

What are your views on some of the major issues? Iraq War? Women's right to choose? Human rights? :shrug:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[gollygee]

174. I was accused of being a Republican a few times when my post count was low

Don't take it personally. I bet most people here were accused of being trolls when their post count was below 1,000.

[Name removed]

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[sendero]

187. There are plenty of basically..

... paranoid people here. That's ok, a certain percentage of the population is paranoid.

I kind of understand why some took issue with your description of the situation. I agree with some who have posited that perhaps it is more of just a personality or other issue that made you uncomfortable.

I don't see anything in your posts that makes me think you are a disagreeable person or a troll. You have to understand that if you say anything here that makes people uncomfortable, they will attack you. I've been attacked for being a Texan, for thinking people should be able to own guns, for not feeling constrained in my right to vent my opinion of their pet candidate.

Don't let it bother you too much. If you are a troll, fuck you. If you were just a person who wanted to share a difficult experience and expected some support, well it's too bad that you really have to be careful with every damn word you use around here or someone will call you out for it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

188. psssstttt!

ignore :)

[Protagoras]

163. Sometimes it's best to take a Mulligan

and cut your losses. It sure looks like instead of creating a meaningful dialogue you've got yourself into a corner where you are only on offense or defense.

Some people asked a very legit question above...asking that you spend some time explaining what makes you moderate. And you've answered that in a brief fashion...but it could use a lot more calm and dedicated effort.

None of us were there to witness this struggle between you and these other people...all we know is you used some pretty strong labels to describe them...and a vague label to describe yourself. Moreover, there is a call to sympathy here which, in the absence of a lot more details tends to set off alarms in many here who have fought numerous trolling battles...if that's not your intent then regroup and try it a different way.

I agree the "moderate" distinction is one worth discussing (and it has been time and again on these boards, trust me). But it doesn't appear that further attacks, justifications, or rationalizations about what has been (or hasn't been) said is going to help here.

My advice (unasked for) is to call it a goof...go back and spend some time really elaborating your views. Post them up in a different, calmer, and more coherent thread. You'll find that once you seperate that discussion from your personal difficulties with your local college organization...people will respond in a much more productive way.

Heck maybe we could all learn something there...in a new thread...with a new tone and approach. That is, of course, if that's really what you want to achieve. If this debate here is actually making you happy then I suspect it'll remain alive as long as you keep feeding it.

[mmonk]

169. Ask the DLC

as I don't know what a moderate is anymore and they claim they are. For instance, justices taking away legal rights and precedences some may call moderate, I do not. Some supporting the invasion of Iraq and other countries call that position moderate, I do not. Guess it depends on who is determining what moderate means. Some call the DLC moderate, I do not. I see the DLC as some conservative dems mixed in with neo-liberals.

[stop the bleeding]

176. This thread has gotten way too out of hand - so that is why

one more post wont hurt.?!?!?

[Mr_Spock]

179. It's difficult to fight those bull-headed folks.

I'm not sure why some people feel compelled to attack their own so vehemently. I find myself fighting people here who have entrenched positions and refuse to listen to any logic. What could be more fun that having people calling you names instead of offering logical arguments? Anyway, I suggest that you continue to fight for what is right as much as some "radicals" want to try to dominate you with their screaming. I just keep plodding along repeating the same arguments - occasionally people will get tired of screaming and listen to you - then it all seems worth it. :D

[Fescue4u]

181. Livewire, you will be welcome here

DU is the pentacle of tolerance of understanding.

But you must use the correct words, otherwise we'll find out that you don't toe the line of perfect liberalism, and then you'll be tared, feathered and outcast like the moderate uncaring bastard that you are

:)

[Mr_Spock]

186. So true - dripping with irony...

There are days when you are left scratching your head at those who, when nobody on the other side is good enough to attack, turn and attack those around them who aren't "perfect enough" liberals. Oh, the joy. :eyes:

[greyl]

193. You spelled pinnacle wrong, freeper.

Seriously though, fairly astute comment there. :)

[norml]

189. Spend more time enjoying yourself, and less time working your ass off.

I feel your pain.

When I've been in political action groups I'm often way too serious, and hard working.

Because of this I've often missed out on much of the fun and friendship that can be found in such associations.

Even here it's not like I'm the most popular person, maybe because often I am so rude as to say stuff like this.

Don't let your talent, seriousness, and hard work translate into resentment for others who are less so.

Work more on winning friends, if you want to influence people.

Sit back and let others argue.

Learn the art of making a brief statement, and then shutting up.

Let the bad ideas wear themselves out.

Be diplomatic.

Be polite.

Good luck!

[trumad]

192. Possibly the dumbest fucking thread in DU history.

.....

[BeTheChange]

196. Come on trumad, tell us how you really feel.nt

;)

[sinkingfeeling]

200. Hey, welcome, LiveWire! I'm probably a 'radical' liberal, but I'm

impressed that your campus even had a Dem club! I think ours died a couple of years ago as they never have done anything!

Keep up the good fight and I'll certainly read your posts!

[MojoXN]

201. Start rumors that the other club members blow goats...

THAT should keep 'em busy! Seriously though, by "extremist", do you mean the Michael Moore-esqe types? Because it would make a lot of sense if those of his ilk didn't want a voice of reason around to rain on their proverbial parade. Just my $.02.

MojoXN

[Garbo 2004]

202. What was the fund raising for that you raised "a ton of money"

and returned to the donors? Was the money going to the club? What kind of expenses would the club have that required "a ton of money?"

Were the funds raised for specific causes and/or groups? If so, like which ones?

And, oh btw, no one burned the town of Isla Vista to the ground as you claimed. It was the B of A. Exaggerate much?

[HEyHEY]

205. I suggest joining the Ross Perot club - thatp'll show em!

[Avalux]

208. Locking.

What a conversation that was, eh?