Just saw Good Night and Good Luck with early 30's aged friends

[DebJ]

I myself will be 50 at the end of the year.

I really enjoyed the movie and got the multiple messages loud and clear.
My friends just wanted to go to sleep....they have absolutely no clue of what McCarthyism means.
I wish they had put in just 10 more minutes of footage that would allow younger people to understand fully what went on back then...the way peoples lives were so thoroughly destroyed through fear and employment blacklisting that there were suicides...more than just the one reporter shown in the film. I wish they better depicted the climate of fear.

[NVMojo]

1. Well, I live in buttscrew Repuke country and it is still not playing here

[DebJ]

6. The only place it is playing here in Bush County (York) Pa was

the 'cheapie' theatre. There were only five people in there plus me, hubby, and the three sleepy friends.

Repukes own the 'big' theatre. They didn't show F9-11 until they realized, a few months late, that they were losing money, ha ha! Then they showed it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Ouch! My condolences on that! I think it's playing here in San Antonio,

though I haven't really checked. I don't like going to the theater. I prefer to view movies at home. I'll wait for the release date.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Your friends might be better off playing video games?

[DebJ]

5. scary part: they are teachers!

I was online today applying to a college so I can get my degree and teach history. The experience tonight just renewed my desire (I married young - 19 - then ended up divorced with 2 kids, one handicapped, so never finished college..)

[BlueIris]

3. Young people today have NO sense of history.

And I say that AS a young(ish) person. That drives me nuts. Wanna know why they're not involved? They don't understand how we got to this place.

[politicat]

29. Excuse me?

Being one of those not quite 30 types, and being very, very aware of history, both foreign and domestic, I don't entirely disagree that we don't have as much of a personal sense of history - after all, we weren't there and didn't live it. For most of us around 30, our history starts in November of 79 with the hostage crisis.

That does not mean we are not aware of the events of the past to a degree. However, our personal sense of history can no more encompass the events of the 50s than someone who experienced the HUAC trials (vicariously, as a child) can have a personal sense of history about Mauve Decade.

That's the nice part about aging - the personal sense of history gets longer (and believe me, I'm looking forward to it.) The nasty flip side is that it becomes increasingly hard to remember that for people who weren't there, the attachment to the memories of events is difficult.

However, the gross generalization about my generation is unwarranted and stereotyping. I'm sure you'd be just as offended to hear members of my peer group say of you and yours that they're all living in the past, stuck in their glory days and unwilling to look at the world as it is today.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

35. Too true. My (our?) generation is majorly screwed.

Speaking as a HS student, of course.

[justiceischeap]

37. I think that generalization is unfair

It's not just 30-somethings that have no sense of history it's all age ranges. People that are not politically active or concerned just don't care. You cannot lump all age groups into one line of thinking, a majority of the sheeple just don't care—young and old.

Psst. I'm one of those 30-somethings and I have a very good sense of history. I remember the gas shortages of the late 70's and the Iran hostage situation, Lebanon, etc. It's what I chose to learn as I grew.

[NYFlip]

I'm in your friends age range and

I loved the movie but I didn't know about all the lives ruined or the blackmailing. I loved it because it parallels our media today. Maybe I'm more aware of the mainstream media catering to the right because I hang out at DU.

[DebJ]

7. McCarthy was the Patriot Act in human-like form.

[Cha]

45. Lives ruined with mccarthyism..

snip~

.."Third, McCarthyism had a far greater impact on ordinary Americans than it did on prominent and famous people. McCarthyism is often remembered as an attack on the creativity and free speech rights of academics, writers and intellectuals like the Hollywood Ten. While it was certainly that, it was much more. Thousands lost their jobs and saw their families' lives ruined. Organized labor was "the most important institutional victim of the Cold War red scare," in part because some labor leaders, with their ties to ruling-class politicians, "collaborated with the witch-hunt," according to Schrecker.< >"McCarthyism weakened the entire labor movement, damaging Communists and anti-Communists alike."<15> But by the end of the 1950s, Communists and other leftists had been driven out of or marginalized in most unions. As a result, McCarthyism boosted the control of conservative business unionists in the labor movement. It constricted labor's organizing agenda and weakened its confidence to take on the bosses. Labor's long decline in American life began with the triumph of McCarthyism. We are still paying the price today."



http://www.isreview.org/issues/12/mccarthyism.shtml

[enlightenment]

4. Must have slept through their history classes, as well . . .

what a shame. Glad you got to see it -- it still isn't open here.
:shrug:

[mtowngman]

13. Amazing what still isn't taught

[caledesi]

17. No, you didn't sleep thru history class.....it wasn't really emphasized.

McCarthy? Who's that?

[enlightenment]

39. I guess I was thinking of college level history

(which is what I teach, so no, I wasn't sleeping through mine! ;-) )

Even so, I seem to recall learning about McCarthy (okay, so it was hardly history at the time . . .) -- and I definitely remember my kid including it in a paper he wrote for a high school history class in 1997 (junior year).

Still, I get your point. It often isn't offered. One reason that folks sometimes don't consider is time constraints. At the HS level, most US history classes (seems to me) are expected to cover everything from the Vikings farming in Nova Scotia in 1000 to the 2004 presidential election -- and everything in-between -- in one school year.

It can be done, just like I can cover everything from prehistory to 1867 in 15 weeks. In high school, I suspect the 1950s (assuming they get that far) comes right around spring break/prom, etc. -- that's about the time you get to it in a post-reconstruction US history class in college. And by that time, the distractions have really set in.

Even without distractions, though, coverage is by necessity reduced to something like a plane trip -- 32,000 ft. high, looking out the window at the broad patterns and vague details on the ground far below.
There is simply too much history to cover to do it right in a semester or even a school year. The results are rarely good -- and always unsatisfying for both students and teachers.

On the other hand, there are some crappy teachers out there -- and students who would rather doze through the class. And an emphasis on other subjects, that relegate history and literature to the basement (next to art and music). Lots of people don't even think about it until something pops up (like this film) that reminds them that history is relevant in everyday life. But those reminders aren't enough to convince anyone in charge that it might be an important subject to teach.

whoops . . . need more coffee. sorry for the rant.

[caledesi]

47. Good rant. nt

I remember my high school history (which I didn't like btw), but I really don't remember much emphasis on McCarthy.

Now, when I went to college (non-traditional student LOL), I really enjoyed my history courses, however, the ones that I took were not "modern history"....I took mostly early Am History et al.

[enlightenment]

48. You know, most non-trads do enjoy their history classes

-- all their classes, usually! Maybe we should just send the kids to work and we'll all go back to school!
:evilgrin:

[patrice]

8. They didn't notice how gorgeous the movie was?

Those faces and eyes, so close, intense!

The only thing I didn't like was all of the smoking. I get the irony of it, and I agree that Clooney had to have a Lot of smoking to make the point, but once the point (Irony) was established, the smoking became a bit of a distraction.

[Lindsay]

10. My recollection of Murrow is that he was never

without a cigarette.

[DebJ]

12. That was just the reality of broadcasting and normal life back

then. Everyone smoked all the time on TV. I didn't take it as irony.

[patrice]

38. I was thinking about the juxtapositions of Large/Social power and

Small/Individual power in its native, Media influenced, dynamic context. Different kinds and levels of power in its cohort(s) as it proceeds through the phases of the "Social Clock" developing what is referred to as "I" and "We" in the presence of Media.

And taking notice of Media's Large regressive influences in the form of McCarthy, but, due to accident of birth only, Small and Ignorant of the Destruction they suck from their own hands, AND which was brought to them by means of the very Media dynamo that they Act Courageously against. It's ironic. And also Classic in the tradition of Oedipus, Hamlet and others.

[Lex]

27. What was ironic about the smoking?

Even in the actual footage from the 50's, lots of smoking was going on (in the hearings themselves too).

It was purely realistic.

[patrice]

36. The "power" of their roles in what was happening on a large Social

scale, power to change and obviously CONTROL the Media, i.e. "the message", the individual "writ large" in the Social Clock and the Power intendent upon those Larger dynamic Social events in cohort : Relative to the thing that Crawls into the individual bodies and kills them from their own hands, Part of the classic tragic hero from Oedipus to Hamlet and on.

This film is about "power", and one very destructive power is almost un-heeded, Smoking, and of course, further on the theme of Destructive Power(s), is the Suicide of their colleague who was scapegoated by McCarthy and Other Cruel People, echoing the thing that Crawls cruelly and silently into "us" and how "power" ebbs and flows around and through that Social Cancer, scapegoating, racism, paranoia, prejudice . . . . . Social-suicide.

I hope you don't mind my free-writing here. These really are just quick notes. I used to love writing criticism of literature and poetry and I also write a *few* things too.

I'm just interested in this film's juxtapositions of large and small and what it is saying about Power.

I think Good Night, Good Luck may be a Landmark in film literature. I thought it was stunning, beautiful and very Classic.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

33. The Independent ran an article about the smoking last week

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/film/features/article322940.ece

[MuseRider]

9. They were never taught about this?

They never heard about this? My goodness, that is a terrible thing, how could they not?

I am just hoping we actually get it here. Our movie theaters usually only carry non political, cheesy fare. We had to protest to get Fahrenheit 9/11. We will see, maybe by the end of the year?

I am glad you took your young friends, perhaps they will look into it now.

[DebJ]

14. Almost every history class in this country never gets beyond the

Civil War, at the high school level / middle school level.

So no one can see the Deja Vu unless they lived close enough to that time to remember that pungent smell of fear at the word 'commie', or the phrase 'commie pinko fag' thrown at Viet Nam protestors...so hey no one really understands that Archie Bunker comment, do they?

They won't look into it. But I will be googling for info for them anyway.

[MuseRider]

22. I guess my kids were lucky

because they did learn that and they did get past the Civil War.

Good for you, they need to know, we have to get these things back into our schools. Man, this really upsets me.

[mtowngman]

11. Can't wait to see this

just did a research paper comparing and connecting Japanese internment, McCarthyism and The Patriot Act. The "climate of fear" has been palpable for a few years.

[justiceischeap]

42. I'm going to see it today at 2

I'm excited. I didn't think it was coming to my area then lo and behold the little indie/art house theatre is showing it.

[mtowngman]

46. let us know what you thought

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. There is a lack of context I agree. I'm in between you and your friends

in age, and if I hadn't read some books on the era when in school I wouldn't have understood either. I remember reading about the witch hunts, the HUAC, and Welch in library books and being fascinated that such a thing could happen here.

I also felt it sad that the Welch "at long last have you left no sense of shame" moment really had no context either so people wouldn't know what that was all about, who Roy Cohn was etc.

On edit: The thing I've been waiting for, in vain, these last few years, is for shrubco to have their "at long last have you left no sense of shame" moment, whether it was over torture, arbitrary tyrranical imprisonment in Gitmo or other places, Katrina, election fraud or whatever... I despair somewhat of it ever happening...

[Redneck Socialist]

16. How the fuck can't they know about McCarthyism?

I'm in my thirties and you would pretty much have to be willfully not paying attention to have missed out on McCarthy and what his antics meant to the country. Yeeeshh!

Of course the movies not playing anywhere around where I live. I'm dying to see it.

[elfin]

18. Just saw it tonight - it is great

and the audience applauded at the end. But the audience was "in their prime" - over 50 I would guess. As a former high school American History teacher, I would have made a field trip out of it -- but am guessing, there would have to be a unit on "What was/is communism", the Cold War, blacklisting etc,

I have asked my 30+ year old son to see it and get his reaction. He is more aware than most of his generation, but I think he would find it a bit boring where I was thrilled to see all the clips of vaguely remembered TV hearings and the parallells to today at every turn.

[madrchsod]

19. my 20 year old daughter asked me about the story

i briefly told her what it was all about and told her to wait for the dvd cause she`ll need to go back over stuff that she didn`t understand. i don`t remember watching the hearings but i do remember watching ed`s programs.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. Nah you should tell her to see it now, AND get the DVD when it comes out.

The experience of going to the theater is more vivid and will make a good firm impression on the mind, stimulate discussion etc. that will be continued when the DVD is purchased.

[jellybeancurse]

23. Just returned from the theatre

I loved this film! The black and white format really made subtle fear and intensity on the faces of the actors stand out. It was beautifully done. Also, thought it was wonderful how Clooney included so many clips from the hearings. Well done.
Two people were asleep at mine too! I can't understand it. :shrug:

[applegrove]

24. When I saw the movie there was a whole host of "old-timers" there

too. I was touched by how much it meant to them - they went through it - so that they showed up together on opening night.

Yes - a very simple movie. Touched on a few terrible notes. I cannot believe they were not paying attention or missed the point. Were they "50" too instead of "70" or "80" like the generation who actually went through it all and were old enough to understand the meaning of it at the time. I cannot believe they would not be involved if they were older.

[Us vs Them]

25. Hell, I'm 24 and learned all about McCarthyism in sophomore history class.

I remember how specifically Mr. Troost imparted upon us how severe getting blacklisted was. It was hard for us to even really comprehend at the time.

[tjdee]

I too learned about this briefly in school--I did a presentation on Joe in

college.

I'm not quite 30. I really hate when people don't know historical things they should know about. I can get kind of snotty about it so I'm glad I wasn't with you, LOL.

They should have done their own homework, or do it now, about what was up with the time period. I imagine the film wanted to spark debate, questions, etc. so that people won't be such lazy asses.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. 31 and I loved it

My 26 y.o. girlfriend loved it too--it was her first b/w movie in the theater and she was blown away by the beauty of the images, never mind the relevance of the story. There was a group of teens in front of us who seemed to be riveted.

Of course, folks are a little different out where I live.

[Lex]

28. I'm 40 and I learned about it in school, in a rural

southern school district, to boot. The whole awful truth.

I can't believe that others haven't learned about blacklisting, McCarthyism, the hearings, etc. in school.

Wow, that's really disappointing to know.

I admit that I didn't learn how much Murrow had to do with neutering McCarthy, however, until I learned of this film.

[enki23]

30. wow. time to find smarter friends.

.

[lildreamer316]

31. Well, I'm 32 and I can't WAIT to see it!!

....and i DO have a clue.

[Il_Coniglietto]

32. Got back from seeing it a few hours ago.

And I loved it (and I'm 18 so younger folk can like it too ;)). Everything about it was great, the acting, the imagery, the direction. Truly top-notch. I think I'm going to buy the soundtrack.

Someone earlier asked about the irony of the smoking. Edward R. Murrow died of lung cancer.

[RedOnce]

34. I keep wondering...

what today's journalists think when they see this film.

[brook]

41. My fantasy is...

that most of today's 'journalists' will see themselves as the poseurs they are. There's a huge difference between 'getting to the bottom of the facts of an issue' and 'taking stenographic notes'.

Though I was just getting out of high school - where both my journalism and history teachers were threatened with dismissal for their views - I also wrote for the town newspaper.We had a town meeting revolving around McCarthy's tactics. It erupted into a small riot and police came to break it up. The school tried to expell me for a column I wrote. The editor of the paper convinced them that even a lowly student writer had First Admendment Rights and I was allowed to graduate.

BTW,I'm hoping to see the movie next weekend.It's playing at the 'art' house in town.

[immoderate]

40. Bit of humor...

I saw a reference to a review that said the movie was good and praised the acting except, "...the guy who played Senator McCarthy was a bit over the top." (!) LOL

--IMM

[DebJ]

43. OMG too funny too stupid!

[DebJ]

44. sending this op-ed piece to local paper:

I saw Good Night and Good Luck at Queensgate last night with three thirty-something teacher friends. I urge all citizens age 50 plus to do the same. The movie was great for people who can recall the tangible atmosphere of fear created by McCarthy, when you could almost taste and smell it hanging acridly in the air like you can Spring Grove on some days in York. (edit: paper factory in nearby town often fills our air with very acrid stench)

The scene where McCarthy is ranting about “freedom and liberty” while he treats people with no dignity, no respect, no privacy, no civil rights, was ‘déjà vu’. That scene, just one of many parallels to today, made the hair on my head feel like it would stand straight up. Eisenhower’s passionate statements on habeas corpus was just one other. Clooney uses Murrow’s actual words, not creative license, and includes actual footage of the Senate hearings and news interviews.

Our 30ish friends are sincerely (dangerously) clueless as to what McCarthy did to our country in the 1950's. A young online chat companion said he knew, but he had no idea of the employment blacklisting, the resultant devastation of people's lives and careers, and the suicides that occurred. Unfortunately, Clooney shows just the briefest glimpses of these ramifications.

So younger people also don't understand the source of Archie Bunker's condescension to his son-in-law, 'commie pinko fag'. None of the emotional undertones are in that comment for them, neither with Archie, nor critically, in understanding of the Viet Nam conflict. To this generation, the Patriot Act et al is a 'new' phenomenon ... when instead it should be understood that the beast of tyranny, despotism and fascism never really sleeps, and must always be watched and fought. Ben Franklin knew, declaring this country would get a dictator when it voted one in. The other Founding Fathers knew, too, as evidenced in the Constitutional debates.

My friends and others their age have no idea because of this simple fact: an overwhelming majority of social studies teachers report that they never teach past the Civil War. I forget the numbers, but it was like 90%....in effect, all of them. But teachers could add McCarthy to a discussion of the Constitutional debates. McCarthy, the Patriot Act, and particularly concern that the Administrative Branch would overwhelm the power of the People’s Congress was very much a concern of our Founding Fathers.

I wasn't born until 1955, but the putrid stench left behind by McCarthy still filled the air in the first 15 years of my life in a town outside of Washington, DC. Some of you will actually remember even a great deal more.... you need to pass that personal experience down the generations, please! In fact, it would be great for the YDR to do some interviews of local residents and their recollections, backed up with some actual news stories from that era. A lesson not learned is painfully repeated.