Voters Were Suppressed, Jan 2005, John Kerry

[sandnsea]

"Thousands of people were suppressed in their efforts to vote. Voting machines were distributed in uneven ways,"

"widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials, and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote" in the battleground state of Ohio.

But he also said his legal team had found no evidence that would alter the outcome.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2005/01/18/kerry_alleges_voters_were_suppressed?pg=full

John Kerry has always said there were voting problems that need to be addressed. The 3 specific issues at JohnKerry.com are supporting troops, Kids First, and Count Every Vote.

He has been working on this. If people would stop screaming "stolen election" and start screaming "election reform", maybe we would get somewhere.

[Maggie_May]

1. How can you fix fixed elections

We have electronic voting machines with no paper ballot. We have dead people voting the list goes on and on. I do believe this was a stolen election and I think the next one will also be stolen. So what do we do find better hackers then them and play the same game or suffer when they steal another one.

[Sapphire Blue]

2. How? S450 - Count Every Vote Act

http://thomas.loc.gov/ - Enter the bill # (S450) to read the full text.

[Maggie_May]

5. We need action now

Latest Major Action: 2/17/2005 Referred to House committee
We are going into 2006
I hope you are right I did sign a petition to get this out of committee and to the floor awhile a go. This action should have been taken care of months ago.

[sandnsea]

6. People aren't demanding it

They're running around talking about exit polls and stolen election and conspiracy theories instead of pointing to known facts and this bill. All people have to do is point to 10 of the wildest computer glitches, the disproportionate placement of machines, bad voter rolls, and that would be enough for the public to demand voter reform.

[feelthebreeze]

3. Too often reform is doubled with untraceable computerized voting...

The amount of denial or naivete is truly shocking. Time to address the real problem. In Kerry's own words "Gut check time..."

[sandnsea]

4. Not anymore

Count Every Vote Act requires a verifiable paper trail that is used in the event of a recount.

[Junkdrawer]

8. A 2% mandatory recount is useless unless it is completely random...

In Ohio, the 3% "random" recount was anything but random.

This is one of the main reasons I think the Canadian "Paper ballots hand counted in front of scrutineers" system is preferable.

[sandnsea]

10. Ballot box stuffing is preferable, oh sure

People need a history lesson.

We have paper ballots with voter signature verification, opti-scan, and a random pre-count to calibrate the machines in Oregon. We don't have precincts so there's no opportunity to flip votes around there. I don't think we had any complaints of peculiar vote counting, no suppression, no ballot tampering. What we had for fraud was Sproul throwing away registrations. You do not have to have hand counted paper ballots to run a fair election.

[Junkdrawer]

14. Opti-scan machines can be hacked at the memory card level...

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/BBVreport.pdf

As for ballot box stuffing being preferable: Yeah, I'd like the cheaters to have to have the widest "conspiracy" possible. As it is now, a handful of cheaters can throw an election electronically.

[sandnsea]

15. See dear, OURS WEREN'T

Come to Oregon. Learn how to run an election. And as good as ours was, there are many fine DU Oregonians who are working to make it even better. WITH opti-scan voting. Calling for hand counts is a distraction that makes the work of getting good elections harder.

[Junkdrawer]

17. I love condescending posts from uninformed people...

makes my day...

[sandnsea]

20. And this is... what???

:shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

23. I leave it to anyone who reads this sub-thread to decide...

Good Night and Good Luck...

[sandnsea]

24. Me too

And "Good Night and Good Luck"??

Not hardly. Don't flatter yourself.

[robbedvoter]

7. half-truths on this are worse than lies. Enough votes were suppressed

as to hand the election to the BFEE and kerry had the exit polls to know it.

[sandnsea]

9. The exit polls are just bullshit

I am sorry. But on election day I thought the campaign was relying on internals. Had I known they were relying on polls that had PA going 60-40, I never would have put any faith in winning. VA, SC & NC to Kerry?? Give me a break. NH exit poll had a wide win for Kerry, a recount, and nothing came of it.

People are just not thinking objectively.

[texpatriot2004]

12. Wrong! The evidence gathered isn't about exit polls but

nonetheless, exit polls have been used RELIABLY around the world and here as well to indicate election fraud.

Mitofsky's "logic" used in his exit polling (paid for by Rethugs) has recently been proven (mathematically) incorrect.

[sandnsea]

13. Yeah, but ours were FUCKED

Anybody who is being objective can't possibly believe that PA was 60-40 for Kerry at any point in the day. They were FUCKED UP. I don't know why, but they were.

[SheilaT]

19. Exit polls are so

reliable that in 1980, Jimmy Carter conceded at, what was it, 7pm Eastern time? Long before the polls closed on the West Coast. And that was on the basis of exit polls.

Starting about 1964 exit polling got so accurate that the networks were correctly releasing final percentages based on a very few "key precincts", and they had become willing to go public with their predictions earlier and earlier. 1980 was a watershed, and they finally agreed to knock off releasing the results of their exit polls until at least after the polling places closed.

And in 2000, the exit polls showed exactly how Floridians intended to vote. But Republicans successfully put out the idea that exit polls are flawed, and it's truly sad how many who should know better now believe that.

Look closely at who controls that black box voting. Look closely at the fact that heavily Democratic areas got the fewest voting machines, resulting in long lines which meant that some voters simply had to give up and go to work or get home to hungry children. Look closely at the many tales of malfunctioning electronic voting machines, the total lack of a paper trail, the fact that without a separate paper ballot any "recount" is just a matter of taking a second look at the print out from the electronic machine.

And don't forget above all, that these people, the Bush Administration, came to power in a coup, and they will not give up power in anything so silly and weak as an honest election.

[sandnsea]

21. They weren't in 2004

They just weren't. What about New Hampshire?? Had a recount there. VA, NC & SC for Kerry?? Please. The polls were wrong. I don't know why, it could have been dirty tricks, but they were still wrong.

[SheilaT]

26. How about the possibility, as in Florida in 2000

that the exit polls correctly showed how the people intended to vote, and their votes were switched around by chicanery?

[texpatriot2004]

11. No. Election Fraud is a separate issue that needs to be dealt

with.

[sandnsea]

16. Election fraud, Election Reform

That's the only issue that needs to be dealt with. Until somebody brings me a hacked machine.

[texpatriot2004]

18. They are two different issues. There are documented reports on

the machines. Look it up.

[sandnsea]

22. Glitchgate

The machines need to be fixed. Count Every Vote wants to fix them. What's your point? Because I don't get it.

Bring me a hacked machine with proof of how it was hacked.

[feelthebreeze]

27. Your sense of denial is truly astounding...

The only clear choice is Optical scan (in precinct only) doubled with Paper ballots.

[mzmolly]

25. Agreed.

:kick: Recommended.