So, Alito's Catholic, right? How does he avoid looking like he's doing

[patrice]

the bidding of the Cathlic Church in re Rove v. Wade? Aren't there some Southern Republicans who hate Catholics nearly as much as they hate some other groups?

The American Bishops are into telling people how to vote and whom to give their political dollars to. Doesn't that just freak some people out? The Cathlic Church runnning the U.S.

[catmother]

1. well if it is we're in deep shit. n/t

[patrice]

2. Really.

I continue to hear anecdotes of local Catholics being pressured by their own Parish, with the pastor's and bishop's approval, of course. And continuing to hear that they can't go to Communion if they don't yada yada . . . . Ex-communication? I DON'T think so, Not under any kind of Cannon Law!! Ex-communication has to come from the Pople, I think.

[JVS]

3. More people than the Pope can excommunicate

Note to mods about copyright: This looks huge, but is just 1 paragraph

"III. WHO CAN EXCOMMUNICATE?

Excommunication is an act of ecclesiastical jurisdiction, the rules of which it follows. Hence the general principle: whoever has jurisdiction in the forum externum, properly so called, can excommunicate, but only his own subjects. Therefore, whether excommunications be a jure (by the law) or ab homine (under form of sentence or precept), they may come from the pope alone or a general council for the entire Church; from the provincial council for an ecclesiastical province; from the bishop for his diocese; from the prelate nullius for quasi-diocesan territories; and from regular prelates for religious orders. Moreover, anyone can excommunicate who, by virtue of his office, even when delegated, has contentious jurisdiction in the forum externum; for instance, papal legates, vicars capitular, and vicars-general. But a parish priest cannot inflict this penalty nor even declare that it is incurred, i. e. he cannot do so in an official and judicial manner. The subjects of these various authorities are those who come under their jurisdiction chiefly on account of domicile or quasi-domicile in their territory; then by reason of the offence committed while on such territory; and finally by reason of personal right, as in the case of regulars."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm


So it would seem that a Bishop would be totally within his rights to excommunicate a person as far as the diocese goes, but that excommunication would not be binding in other diocese.

[patrice]

5. Thanks for the resource!

[patrice]

7. You know, that's just tooooo Bad!!! There are so many pernicious

things about some "churches". They so easily tend toward Fascism.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. This has always been a source of confusion to me.

The historical assumption has always been that it was an act of pernicious prejudice to vote against someone because they were a catholic. People who voted against JFK, and before him Al Smith for president, on the grounds that their loyalty to the church could conflict with their public duty, were excoriated as bigots or worse.

I guess that was all fine and good as long as the church was not sending political directives to it's members who are public servants saying that they must do this ( eg. oppose abortion choice) and must not do that( eg. support legislation supporting gay rights).

This is no longer the case. This raises the question: is it OK to oppose Alito if, at his hearings, he affirms his loyalty to the institutional church?

I say "yes".

[patrice]

6. Thanks for this PaulHo!!

When do we get to start talking about taxing at least SOME "churches", read that PR/HR Cartels?

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. We can talk about it anytime; but that idea is not going ....

anywhere anytime soon. Professional DEM politicos won't touch that with a ten foot pole, for fear of being cast as anti-religion.

But I do think this nomination might be a good chance to get some clarity re. this catholic business. Either public servants are beholden to the political dictates of the churches they belong to or they are NOT.

The people have a right to know.

[markus]

8. Yes, but the church is now an organization led by bigots

Is it bigoted to vote against bigots?

As long as the church is actively endorsing homophbobic marriage amendments, it falls into the same class of organization as, say, the Klan.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to vote against someone for belonging to a hate group.

Ed. Note--Born, Hotel Dieu Catholic Hospital, 1957. Baptised St. Dominic's, and confirmed St. Piux X, both Archidiocese of New Orleans. Voluntary candidate for ex-communication as soon as I figure out how to make it happen.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. I wouldn't bother with excommunication; sounds like...

you've already outgrown it; and that's as it should be.

[catmother]

9. i was a catholic until the early 60s. i assume that i have been

ex-communicated although no one has ever officially notified me. LOL. how do they even know who you are or where to find you.

and yes, it completely freaks me out if the catholic church or any church is running the country. that's why is said if they are we're in deep shit. it scares me that all these fundies seem to be getting their way in this country. religion and politics should not be mixed. whatever happened to separation of church and state? i remember JFK making a point of telling the people that the pope would not be running the country. i'd like to hear this from the catholic members of SCOTUS.