Bernie and Boxer talking about 2006. I am so sick of hearing this

[texpatriot2004]

2006 will not be any different from 2000, 2002, or 2004. They own the voting machines. Turn out doesn't matter. The voting system is the same.

After 2004, and until the issue of election fraud is addressed from the top, people are not going to turn out to vote like they did in 2004 because it doesn't matter. They've been there and done that. The system remains in place. How are the people supposed to change that?

The same sham of a voting system will be in place in 2006. The Rethugs control the voting machines. Therefore, they control the counting. Why on Earth would 2006 be any different than 2004.

Hell, I don't even know that I will make it to 2006 under this evil regime.

America needs to snap out of it, wake-up and smell the rigged voting machines, SNAP OUT OF THE DENIAL.

BTW I like Boxer and Bernie...it's nothing against them, I am just so sick of hearing this 2006, 2008 line. If nothing changes, nothing changes and nothing has changed with our voting systems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Look you may believe this

but the problme is, they won then... you need to vote and FIGHT to change the voting systems

Got it?

if you don't vote, they won... they supressed you

[texpatriot2004]

2. How is voting on their sham of a system going to change that? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Work locally to change it

here we went from Diebold machines to scantrons, yes they still have the same damn database but we have a paper trail... and that is a good begining

On edit you don't vote, a good adage we have, don't complain

By surrendering that right, they win... that is exactly what they want, to supress yoru vote.

Also the system, as sham as it is... has a limit on how far you can ahem bend it.

[The Doctor.]

4. Agreed...

If voters come out in enough numbers, their stranglehold will break.

The machines can only turn a percentage of the vote... not all of it.

All that is required is to take a majority back in either house and the Dems will have a chance to eradicate the bogus system.

[texpatriot2004]

7. In 2004 there was a record breaking turn out and they stold

between 4 and 8 MILLION votes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Look we know what they did

but we need to change it locally and get the votes out... and stop this idiocy

It may come down to taking to the streets, (in fact we need to be ready to do that) but we need to show up in numbers

[wmills551]

29. No votes stolen

We just lost. Lets work hard to change that in 2006. Hey texpatriot2004. I bet you blame the umpire when your team loses too.

[Skittles]

70. define "WE"

:puke:

[AndyTiedye]

17. Machinez Stole 16% from Barnes and Cleland in Georgia 2002 Electionz

In 2004, they stole 5% of the vote, nationwide.

They could have stolen even more if they needed more.

They can make the central tabulators report whatever results they want.

In Florida 2000, they allowed it to appear close enough to justify a recount.
They will never make that mistake again.

In 2004, I thought we could get too far ahead for them to steal it.
I was wrong. There is no such thing.

I will keep on voting, just so they have to go to the trouble of stealing my vote. I am under no illusions about it anymore though.

There is a reason why Bush** doesn't even bother to appeal to anybody
but his wingnut base, even though his approval ratings are tanking.
He doesn't care what we think.
He doesn't have to.


"Committed to helping to deliver the electoral votes of Ohio to the President".
Walden O'Dell, CEO Diebold Corporation

"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
Josef Stalin

[The Doctor.]

19. Yes, but...

Is every congressional district saddled with these machines?

My point is not that the Democrats can take the Presidency through the vote... but rather Congress.

That is all that is necessary. Once accomplished, the Democrats will have the opportunity to do away with Diebold.

"It's over, we won. It's all over but the counting... and we'll take care of the counting."- Rep. Peter King-R, NY

[JWS]

22. That makes me a bit optimistic

the voting machines can't turn an entire vote, just a certain percentage. Voting machines seem to not have as much of an existance as before thanks to a lot of dedicated activists. If we keep this up, keep voting and fight to win, whether it's by 2006 or 2008, we will eventually win. Giving up is just an automatic loss on our part.

:hi:

[JWS]

That makes me a bit optimistic

the voting machines can't turn an entire vote, just a certain percentage. Voting machines seem to not have as much of an existance as before thanks to a lot of dedicated activists. If we keep this up, keep voting and fight to win, whether it's by 2006 or 2008, we will eventually win. Giving up is just an automatic loss on our part.

:hi:

[The Doctor.]

26. You are mistaken...

The machines do indeed have as much of an existence as before... if not more.

What do you know about these machines otherwise?

Oh, and welcome to DU

:hi:

[newspeak]

47. I'm from Nevada

Nevada in the 2004 election was a swing state--I thought we had paper verified machines-but no-more than half of the machines were paperless!!!! Then the voter outreach scam hit--tearing up democratic registrations and a repuke judge would not allow those people to re-register. Voter outreach, as far as I know, didn't even receive a handslap.

[JWS]

That makes me a bit optimistic

the voting machines can't turn an entire vote, just a certain percentage. Voting machines seem to not have as much of an existance as before thanks to a lot of dedicated activists. If we keep this up, keep voting and fight to win, whether it's by 2006 or 2008, we will eventually win. Giving up is just an automatic loss on our part.

:hi:

[JWS]

23. That makes me a bit optimistic

the voting machines can't turn an entire vote, just a certain percentage. Voting machines seem to not have as much of an existance as before thanks to a lot of dedicated activists. If we keep this up, keep voting and fight to win, whether it's by 2006 or 2008, we will eventually win. Giving up is just an automatic loss on our part.

:hi:

[JWS]

24. That makes me a bit optimistic

the voting machines can't turn an entire vote, just a certain percentage. Voting machines seem to not have as much of an existance as before thanks to a lot of dedicated activists. If we keep this up, keep voting and fight to win, whether it's by 2006 or 2008, we will eventually win. Giving up is just an automatic loss on our part.

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

6. I have always voted. I have used that line about not complaining

if you don't vote.

What area are you in? I am in Texas it's run by crooked Rethugs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. San Didgo California

we are so proud of our local boy, Duke Cunninghan, you've heard of him... I am sure

Hope he becomes a cell budy with DeLay, which will be the first step in taking back texas... trimpac needs to go

[flyarm]

40. heyyy nadin...how are ya?? ..florida here..and we don;t have a prayer!!

nope..fla might as well sink off the continent..we don't have a prayer here...we have every crooked son of a bitch there is here...

and if you think ohio was stolen double it for fla ..but no one talks about fla anymore..well folks we had it stolen so bad in 2004 it makes 2000 pale!!

fly

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. As I have said before 2000 was a coup

2004 was a coup

Problem is until this breaks into the public consciousness....

What we need is exactly what they had to do in mexico with the PRI

Transparent plastic boxes, international monitors and counts by hand

[Vincardog]

5. Vote and declare your vote/ When thy try to steal a 70% victory

TAKE IT TO THE STREETS

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. I know it's depressing

I feel like giving up sometimes, myself. But we can't make it easier for them to cheat. If they want to perpetuate their conspiracy, we make it as damn hard for them as we can by coming out in record numbers. The more votes they have to switch, the harder they have to work, and the more likely they are to give themselves away.

[texpatriot2004]

11. It's infuriating. How many years? How many "elections" do we

pretend are legitimate?

It's depressing...but it's so much more than that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. We don't have to pretend a thing

that is why all politics is very much local...

I know it is infuriating... and frustrating and all of that... and trust me tuesday I will be there bright and early and vote

[Der Blaue Engel]

I was going by the tone of your recent posts

You sound depressed and fatalistic, and I was hoping to encourage you not to give up. Of course it's infuriating, but I don't think lying down and letting them have it is a helpful suggestion.

I'm just repeating myself at this point and you don't seem receptive, so I'll let it go. Best of luck to you.

[flyarm]

41. i totally understand where you are coming from texpatriot!!

i feel the same way in fla!!

:hi: :hi: :shrug: :shrug: :rant:

fly

[mntleo2]

13. I Can Sympathize With Your Concern, Texpat

I also agree with the previous poster as well, keep voting. If anything, I think it has to embarrass the hell out of these people when millions continue to turn out to vote and the numbers continually don't jive. It won't happen overnight though. When the numbers don't jive and it becomes more obvious, that they cheated, they will eventually lose respect and then power. By 'respect' I mean perhaps there is fear, but no trust or confidence, and that part of real respect is VERY important in order to govern, anything less always ends up in failure. They become a joke of themselves, if you know what I mean. One thing I have learned about economics that applies as well to just about anything: When people agree to value something, it becomes valuable. There are just as many chrystals as diamonds, but tell me, why are diamonds more valuable? Because we have all agreed for whatever reasons that diamonds are somehow "special" when they really are not. It is the same principal here with officials who cannot get respect because they are liars and cheaters. If we as a coalition refuse to give them value, they will not have any.

Also be active in your local area, it works. We have managed to force our state Secretary of State into at least acknowledging these machines have issues. This is a start. Of course we had the tireless work of people like Andy Stephenson and hundreds of others, who did some down and dirty investigation and dug up things that embarrassed the hell out of the officials. It has hurt some innocents, like our local Elections Board director who tried to be honest and do her job and she is being used as their scapegoat as a sort of, "Quick,look over there!" technique. We will have to defend her as well, as it is only a distraction. But we are keeping our eyes on the ball as well, and others can learn from it and do better when they do their work. Just keep in mind these people will do anything except be accountable themselves, as most Republicans do (our S of S is a Repig).

The best antidote to this sense of hopelessness is to persevere, Dear. Listen to and tell your stories to one another to pass along the wisdom that is sitting out here in all of us who care and who have 'been there' as I just did to let you know there are pitfalls. It will teach you and guide you and most of all it will arm and inspire you. I feel hopeless too at times, but I also know history which repeatedly tells us that if we keep plugging along, it WILL cause things to change. Never forget it takes time and a lot of work to make real and permanent change. It always does.

Love,
Cat in Seattle

[Carolab]

14. I totally concur, texpatriot.

The Democratic party needs to DO something and do it now.

Time is wasting. Yes, working locally is helping but it's going too slowly...and not succeeding everywhere. Meanwhile, they are continuing to install DREs and even where we have a "paper trail" the basic security issues have still NOT been addressed as reported in the GAO's report.

I agree with you, they stole so many votes last time and if enough voters are frustrated enough not to vote next time it will be all too easy to do again. Not to mention the renewed efforts to disenfranchise voters via ID requirements and the automated databases being installed.

I think we need to DEMAND the Democratic party add this to their National Organizing Agenda. They promised us at the national committee meeting a few months back that we would have a National Lawyers Council to help work on "election reform". What does that MEAN? I have heard nothing since then. In the meanwhile, we got the Brazile whitewash saying there was no evidence of fraud.

I sent the GAO report to the DNC and my state and local representatives/senator. Do they even read these things? Do they understand what the report is saying?

[flyarm]

51. the dems just don't get it..i am convinced of that...sureeeeee

2004 they sent us lawyers to fla..i was a poll watcher..well let me tell you what the lawyers did ...nothing..jack shit...they were useless...

in fact one place i poll watched i took over for a lawyer who sat there for 4 hours ..and the repubs had all voting brochures with jeb and junior and the whole repub party sitting on a table right where people did absentee voting and waited for absentee ballots...

it was so illegal...and yet here a lawyer sat next to these brochures for 4 hours and he did nothing about it...

this was at a supervisor of elections office for early vote...

i had a rethuglican bring in a whole group of retarded people to vote..well one of them pulled the whole paper roll from the back of one of the machines..and the supervisors office just stuffed it back in the machine and kept having people vote on it..i called in one of kerry lawyers and he did nothing!! i had to fight to get the machine turned off and taken off the floor..and not used..

the lawyers were worthless!!

i caught some fundies in the parking lot that brought a bunch of old folks in a bus and they requested absentee ballots..and the fundies were in the parking lot filling out the absentee ballots for the very old unable to vote themselves ballots..i called a lawyer in and by the time the guy got there..they were gone..and they had done their dirty deed...i told them they could not do what they were doing and they just laughed at me..i called out the supervisor of elections and she just told them stop and when she went inside they finished filling out these very seniors ballots and turned them in...

the fundies brought bus loads of high school kids to vote..they were school sports teams...still in their uniforms!! and these kids harrassed people in line to vote...again i called a kerry lawyer in and all they did is walk the long lines..and they said nothing to these kids harrassing adults ...

it was like the lawyers had no balls..they didn't want to upset anyone...so they stayed silent...

except on election day itself ..i got 2 new york lawyers who were balls to the walls..and great and they did what ever i asked..and they got right in the face of a guy running the supervisors office...

the guy had been harrassing me and trying to intimidate me..well i don't intimidate..so i got next to his face and told him he may scare others but not me...

but then thats when the ny lawyers came and they bumped chests with this huge guy and told him he is not going to get away with intimidation..it almost came to fists...

but these 2 ny lawyers stayed with me most of the day..

and the ny guys said ..now we know what they mean by red neck!!

they said no wonder fla gets stolen...

well i am a born and raised jersey gal..so the fla red neck honchos don't intimidate me...

but i heard of other poll watchers who got so intimidated they left...

but this is no kidding..they guy who was running the program for poll watchers told the kerry field rep who was living with me...he didnt want to send me out at first because i am too aggressive...

instead they sent out people too old to know what the hell was going on!!

i had to be requested by candidates..to send me to their polls....and i was a dem delegate for kerry...

but i swear we have so many infiltrators from the rethugs in our party now..( fla) to make sure the people who know what they are doing don't get used!!
and our dems in fla don't get it..they just don't!!

but they don't get it in congress either..they think if they are nicey nice everything will work out fine..well ..we are paying for all that nice bullshit!!


we are paying dearly!!

fly

ps..after election soe had press conference and did 't let the dems attend..so i dressed up like a reporter and i got in the private press conference and got the new book on voting like the media did..they had no clue i wasn't media..i just acted it and got in!!

then i asked the final questions and blew the soe 's socks off..she was stunned...i demanded answers why there was so much intimidation of poll workers..we were doing our civil duty, i said..

and it was all on tape!!..she wasn't too happy that i got in ..to say the least...

now our party has the play book the soe gave the media...

[texpatriot2004]

75. See Fly that's what I mean...these politicians want to play nice

they want to play nice-nice and in the meantime we are getting royally screwed. Many of the people who work the elections (I worked 11/2004) don't get it. They don't understand the machines either.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

15. don't worry- There WILL BE no more Presidential elections

Permanent Chimp
How EZ!!
first--> another "911" style Event" occurs
--> this country's response = invasion of another country
--> Elections are "postponed
--> martial law/curfew/cities locked-down-no one comes or goes without clearance
--> under the guise of national security all opposition is "rounded up" or "silenced"
--> the media paints a patriotic picture with no dissent
--> publicly no one really seems to have a problem with any of it...(they know better).

After the dust settles even Diebold is no longer necessary

[wmills551]

31. There will be a 2008 presidential election.

The only question is will you help the Republicans by buying into the idiotic theory that all is rigged.

[the_spectator]

16. In any other country,

if the opposition candidate for President (Kerry) actually WON, but the incumbent actually STOLE the election, giving himself a few extra percentage points to put himself over the top, the opposition's response, for the next election, would be this: BOYCOTT THE BALLOT. Abstain from voting. Don't give the next sham election any more respect or credibility than it deserves. Drive down turnout, so that eventually, the powers that be will be forced to agree to truly free and fair elections.

The fact that basically no-one on this thread or at DU makes this "don't vote" argument tells me two things at the same time: 1)Far fewer people actually believe in the "fraud" story than it apppears. 2) Even the fraudsters still have a lingering grasp on sanity, and a hidden, reality-based common sense within them prevents them from pushing for a voting boycott, which even they realize deep down would be a self-inflicted fatal wound upon the Democratic Party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Wrong, voting in Mexico never went down

never... and rates stayed constanct between 65-75%, and the PRI was rigging it badly.

No the response was for Kerry to stand up, or at the very least if he chose not to, for the people to take to the streets, in the millions. People don't beleive there is something wrong because outside of this community, and other small ones, this has gotten absolutely no coverage.

[texpatriot2004]

20. No coverage is a huge problem nm

[Carolab]

72. That's a crap argument.

There is NOTHING to be gained in standing down. That's just giving up. And then what? Then NOTHING. They keep all the marbles. End of game. Even if the machines in a casino are rigged in favor of the house, does that stop people from gambling?

[evermind]

21. Look at it this way: would the crooked rethugs who run Texas prefer

you to vote against them, or not?

Vote! FFS! The rest of the world demands it! ;-)

(I'm British, so I don't normally post in votefraud threads, but it needs to be said..)

[texpatriot2004]

25. Hello there, duly noted

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

27. 2006 will be no different from 2000, 2002 or 2004 nm

[wmills551]

28. Voting machines are fine

We just need more votes. Denial is blaming machines for the failures of our candidates. Telling people that it doesn't matter if they vote because the machines are rigged is really stupid. If the machines are rigged than why didn't Bush get a clear electoral and popular vote victory in 2000. Why don't Repubs have a filibuster proof Senate. Why are there a bunch of states that (Pennsylvania is an example) where Bush lost, but a republican Senator won.

[KingFlorez]

30. I agree

We have to stop blaming the machines for our failures. The key is to build strong progressive/centrist base that will overpower the conservatives.

[texpatriot2004]

33. Then you don't understand the machines. n.t

[KingFlorez]

35. I'm sorry, but we can't keep going on about this

It's time for us to focus on gathering enough votes to counter any fraud, because we sure can't get the machines changed. It's time to stop complaining about the machines and start taking actions to build up a strong base.

[texpatriot2004]

36. In 2004 they stold between 4 and 8 MILLION votes...how many do

you think you need?

[KingFlorez]

38. I'm just saying we need to work hard

And not harp on this issue when we need to be building bridges to get votes. Let's deal with any fraud there is if we get to that bridge, but for now let's focus on helping the candidates.

[texpatriot2004]

39. That's ridiculous nm

[autorank]

53. We did work hard. Look at South Florida, record DEM registrations.

What did the Republicans do by comparison, not much.

But guess what, they did MUCH better than expected on election day.

Wonder how that happened?

Oh, I'm so sorry, we're just supposed to get mugged all over the place and move on...

please sir, may I have another is your motto.

[autorank]

44. We can indeed, and we can keep losing elections too.

Republicans are smiling everywhere when the see Democrats take the bait, oh we just needed more votes.

Fact: In 2000 57 black Floridians were wrongfully removed from the voting records. At least 1/2 of them showed up to vote. Blacks voted 90% Gore in Florida. That's enough votes for Gore to make hanging chads meaningless and to have delivered us from BushHell!

Fact: In 2004, the state of Florida did the same thing but they were caught.

Oh, get over it. The Voting Rights Act is of great value and is the basis of democracy. I value it. You should to.

[autorank]

43. Of course you agree...you failed to review the evidence.

I was wrong in my response to the post above yours, you and that user may be the only two people in America other than voting machine vendors and "the fixers" who believe this.

Read the General Accounting Office report.

[wmills551]

48. There is nothing in GAO report that suggests that any election was stolen

YOu should read it. No election was stolen. We lost a close election. I am sorry. Lets work harder. This crying about stolen elections is so pathetic and unproductive. I never once heard a Republican claim that Clinton stole the election. They just went to work on a grassroots level and took back the White House. Now it is our turn.

[autorank]

52. I did read it. It's a blue print for insecure voting technology...ergo...

...if it could be done, it would be done.

Would you leave the front door and vault open at a huge bank and excect the money to be there the next day.

Why is it so important to you that Bush is legitimate?

Why is it so important to you that Bush was elected?

These are rhatorical questions, no response necessary;)

Have a nice Bush administration.

[wmills551]

55. Truth is important to me

because your misunderstanding about an election being stolen keeps people from working to change the outcome in 2006. So one more time, the GAO report shows no evidence that an election was tampered with. We lost the election. Next issue.

[autorank]

60. Dead beat canard. My fighting for elections gets people involved.

The public demands free and fair elections. Remember the Voting Rights Act, huge support. Are you saying that demanding that act be passed disocuraged people from voting. Please!

The top three posts on Greatest in the past 26 hours are all on

DEMANDING FREE AND FAIR ELECTOINS.

How about that. I'm sure you have an answer like, public opinion polls showing Democrats in the lead keep people home or something equally clever drawn from your false premise.

50% of the people in this country don't vote because they think the system is a joke.

We need to get them back plus reassure the rest of us that it does work.

It's simple, paper ballots counted in public with precinct level totals announced in public as well. That solves the problem.

[wmills551]

62. So let me get this straight.

Telling people that the election was stolen, when there is no evidence that it was. Telling people that their vote does not get counted. Telling people that all elections will be a fraud until we go back to voting with pins and hanging chads. All this helps turnout.

[autorank]

67. You're like the original Wilber Mills...

...stuck somewhere between the limo and the Tidal Basin wondering where Fannie Fox has gone. Bot, bot, bot...you say no evidence:rofl:

What forum do you think you're on?

People know that there is tons of evidence.

Try these:

The Conyers Report
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf

American Coup II "Scoop" Independent Media -- Great Summary
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00067.htm

The Unanswered Question: Who Really Won In 2004?
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00238.htm

And here is what people are doing about it:
National Summit to Save Our (US) Elections – Day
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0510/S00003.htm

[flyarm]

56. this is crap...clinton did not steal an election we got diebold with

georgie porgie...

if you don't believe we had our votes stolen may i suggest you come vote in fla..and throw your vote to oblivion as well...come join the party!!
can you look up clint curtis?? tom feeney , and yang...here i will help you out..may i suggest before you come here to du and say there were no stolen elections you do some research first!!

http://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=BradBlog.com&hl=en&cof=GALT%3A%23333333%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%2337352E%3BVLC%3A000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AC6B396%3BLBGC%3A8E866F%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A44423A%3BGFNT%3A663333%3BGIMP%3A663333%3BFORID%3A1%3B&oe=ISO-8859-1&ie=ISO-8859-1&forid=1&client=pub-3105952734699688&sitesearch=BradBlog.com&q=clint+curtis&sa=Search+the+Blog&domains=BradBlog.com

then look up clint curtis and the murdered investigator raymond lemme...

CLINT CURTIS INVESTIGATOR'S 'SUICIDE' CASE REOPENED BY GEORGIA POLICE!
Raymond Lemme Crime Scene Photos Said Not to Exist are Published on Net!
Photos, Evidence and FDOT Involvement with Valdosta, GA Police Raise New Questions in Mysterious Death!


The case of the mysterious suicide of Raymond Lemme of the Florida Inspector General's office was reopened by Valdosta, Georgia police last December shortly after we broke the story of...

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001243.htm


please please..never tell me florida is not being stolen...

then look up the general election in fla last year and the gambling inititive and how the votes got lost then 7000 votes were found ..and then look up the murder involved with abrahmoff buying the cruise ships in hollywood fla for gambling ships!!

thats just a starter!!

fly

[autorank]

61. Bookmarked, greatpost. Thanks.

[wmills551]

65. I guess you missed my point.

Let me run over it again. Clinton didn't steal the election. He won the election. Republicans didn't spend their time crying about it and blaming it on some boogieman. They got busy and kicked our ass in the next election. Now it is our turn to get busy. We lost an election. It was not stolen. It is time to get busy.

[flyarm]

71. they didn't cry about a boogieman because there wasn't a boogieman...

in 2000 there < was > a boogieman , in 2002 there < was> a boogieman, and in 2004 the boogieman grew to steal 4-8 million votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go do some freaking research before you tell anyone here the election wasn't stolen by the * boogiemen !

fly

[texpatriot2004]

32. Bullshit. The evidence is there. Welcome to DU. n.t

[wmills551]

34. Errors in exit polls is not evidence of anything

other than exit polling is a very inexact science. Start working on getting out the vote for 2006 or join the republican party.

[texpatriot2004]

37. Who's talking about exit polls? I didn't say anything about those.

Nice try though.

[autorank]

45. Please read original post before responding.

This is almost "bot-like"... an automatic attck on exit polling in any thread showing election issues.....hmmm.....

:wtf:

Read her post first!

[flyarm]

58. wmills551..texpatriot and many of us have been working on the vote fraud

for a very long time...this is not new to du'ers...we have a board dedicated to the vote fraud..you will have a very difficult time here if you do not go educate yourself on the the vote fraud...as for exit polling ..the numbers are so astronomical that they are deemed impossible ..not improbable..but impossible...to have occured in the last election....may i just suggest you go do some reading and educating your self to some real facts!!

here is the voter fraud board...

you need to educate yourself before you tell anyone around here there was no fraud!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[autorank]

42. Read the General Accountin Office Report--They're not fine at all.

You vote electronically--it goes into private vendor hard and software--it gets tabulated by private vendor hard and software--they report it to us. We never get to see it, ever.

You call that democracy.

You may be the only person in America who thinks that "voting machines are fine" other than the manufacturers and the "fixers."

[texpatriot2004]

46. I don't call it Democracy. I call it rigged. n.t

[flyarm]

59. tex i agree ..i called it rigged ,stolen , fraud !! ..n/t

[newspeak]

49. I am a taxpayer

maybe I don't want my hard earned money being invested in worthless, inauditable machines that can only be overseen by the corporations that sell them who just happen to be neo-con slugs. What's wrong with paper ballots? My father-in-law used the damn machine for mayor, every time he chose the candidate he wanted it kept going to the other candidate--he called the election official over, she stated "oh, we've been having trouble with that machine all day." He asked her if she was going to put it out of service-nope, they were going to still use it. The candidate he voted against won by a mere 14 votes!!!!! Paperless voting machine=no audit!!!!

[texpatriot2004]

50. Exactly! nm

[garybeck]

73. no.

the voting machines are not fine. you need to look at the facts before you call people stupid.

[cigsandcoffee]

57. I don't know if they were stolen or not.

But you can be damned sure I'm going to vote anyway.

[ROH]

66. You may go to the vote, but...

can you be confident that you are really going to vote - i.e. can you be confident that your vote will really be counted?

[cigsandcoffee]

68. Even if I can't be confident about it...

What else can I do? The only way I can be sure it wont be counted is if I don't vote.

[LaPera]

64. I truly agree with you 100%

And electronic voting machine fraud, STILL, STILL hasn't been addressed and NOTHING has been done...and the republicans want it to stay that way, forever if possible!!!!

Watch out Tuesday in California!

[texpatriot2004]

69. Thanks. n.t

[garybeck]

74. thank you. of course you are correct.

however, we have made some strides since 2004. some of the states have paper laws now. unfortunately it's mainly the states that are already blue. however there are some good things happening in Ohio.

[Vinca]

76. You might be right.

2006 will be the test, that's for sure. Everyone knows what has happened in previous elections and all eyes will be on them. Like you, I'm upset nothing has been done to be sure the vote isn't tampered with. The machines should be government owned and controlled. Better yet, bring back the hand count.