Bill Maher's Choice of Guests--Disappointing?

[BJW]

After watching Bill's new show faithfully since it went to HBO, I've decided that it's just not that interesting or useful (though it is often pretty damn funny).

My basic problem is that Bill has invited far too many professional and highly-polished republican/conservative pundits and media types to his panels. They end up dominating the show, hogging the air time spewing talking points, and generally either ignoring, or being short and rude to the other guests when they occassionally have a chance to get a sentence or two in on the discussion.

I've noticed that when Bill starts reciting liberal/democratic arguments or criticisms, that he often gives a lot of sideways eye contact to these republican/conservative pundits, like he's signaling to them, or anticipating that they are gonna jump right in to respond, and of course they do.

I can listen to these talking point media types anytime I want just by changing the channel.

What I'd like to see is Bill inviting guests on the show who I'm unfamiliar with, people whose voices aren't heard on MSM, instead of these guys that already get a lot of exposure.

Like tonight, I would have really liked to have heard more about what Ireland's former president is doing with human rights, and what's going on in the UN, and what she's about, and I would have liked to have heard John Water's opinions on current events--but instead the show ends up (like all of Bill's shows do when he invites these types on) with Joe Scarborough running roughshod over everybody else on the show.

[JohnnyRingo]

1. John Waters was the odd man out

and didn't have much to say.....
But it was worth it to hear the "DEF" line

[davidwparker]

2. Agreed. I sent him email about his first show of this season saying it

was so bad because of his need to include repugs that I wasn't going to watch the rebroadcasts. Maybe it's a Time-Warner thing.

My email stated that it's a waste of my time listening to right-wing liars, so why would I watch his show anymore than I'd turn on Fox News Channel.

Repugs are either liars or boring. In any case, they make bad guest.

And, I got annoyed at Scarborough shouting at the guests. If it wasn't the last show of the season, I would have turned it off and turned on Malloy ... which is being streamed as I type this.

[Justitia]

3. The screaming RWers ALWAYS take over the show. Typical. -eom

[joefree1]

6. Easy to deal with screaming RWers

I start making signs to hold up in front of their face. How do you shout down a sign?

[SaintLouisBlues]

4. Yep. Last week Snow, Bow-Tie Boy the week before

The only "professional" broadcasters on the panel have been Wing Nuts, and they use the tools of the trade to monopolize the discussion.

[Justitia]

11. Snow was so disgusting I wanted to smash my TV. Pig. -eom

[K8-EEE]

5. I Don't Like It When There's Three Libs Though

The idiots make a nice counterpoint -- they are always booed by the audience too, I LOVE L.A.!

[Cleita]

7. Scarborough is the worst RW fillibusterer on Bill's show and

I even wrote Bill about that. I don't even understand why he had him back because he adds nothing to the discourse but noise. I guess he didn't read what I had to say. Maybe each guest should get a fixed number of minutes to talk without interruption and in turn.

I understand that the RW pundits are trained to fillibuster. The problem is that they are so badly informed or lying so much and no one can get another opinion in. I really think guys like Bill and Jon need to change this, although Jon doesn't let them do this except a little in the guest segment.

[Moochy]

20. I had to email as well

I've not watched a half-hour of TV that made me want to scream so much in a very long time. I Couldn't get through him cutting off the president like he was in fucking scarborough country.

If there is a hell, Scarboroug's TV show will be on there, 24/7.

:wtf:

[npincus]

27. Scarborough was his own worst enemy last nite- he looked like a JACKASS

Dr. Gupta volunteered to give him some Valium for his apoplexy.

[bluedawg12]

8. Seems like Bill's knowledge of underlying issues is limited

and he let's the chance slip to counter many of the lies.

It is true the RW guests do shout and bully and Bill is not strong enough alone to represent the left.

Waters was off and out place.

And Joe S. couldn't or wouldn't understand about the UN experts that the Irish woman wa trying to educate him about.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. I missed last night's show but said just about the same thing you just

said about last week's show. If Maher is going to bring up topics you would think he would be totally prepared. I believe 90% of DUers have more knowledge about what's going on then Maher. I also took exception last week when an audience member yelled out bullshit to the GOP pundits (can't even remember his name) spouting the GOP lies about Wilson. Maher rebuked the audience member who was the only one to challenge those lies.

[MazeRat7]

9. Yup... good thing this was the last one this season...

not sure I could take another one of these. To your point, I really think he needs to look beyond "talking heads" to be members of the panel. By nature, their "daily job" almost guarantees they will dominate the conversation.

I like it much better when the members of the panel actually have some credentials OTHER than being a talking head. Preferably the kind that involve extreme use of the mind and not the mouth.

Just my $.02...

MZr7

[countmyvote4real]

16. Well said. And for 2 cents. eom

[jane_pippin]

10. I like the conflict. I like it when Bill lets them hang themselves out

to dry.

I'm with you on some of it. I hate how they monopolize the conversation but I think Bill gets in some good jabs too. I think he looks at them to challenge them on a point, not to tip them off that it's their turn to rant.

It's frustrating watching the Joes and Tuckers, but I think overall he has a good mix of well known people and people who are a relatively unknown.

I'd have liked to have heard more from the president too, but Joe was too busy yelling at her. Let him show everyone who he is.

I like to think of Bill's show as part smarty-pants salon, part hip cocktail party. It makes it easier to not get so worked up about some of the things that would otherwise bug me about it.

[samplegirl]

12. i was hoping for

Joe Wilson to end the season. Now that would of
been a great show.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. Strongly disagree

I enjoy Bill's show specifically because these right wing idiots show up and don't get the free ride they do from the likes of Tweety, Russert, etc. I enjoy that they play the heel, coming in against the hostile crowd, forcing them off their usually polished game and making even dumber statements than usual that can be shredded. Now maybe someone like Scarborough can overtalk people and tonight was a bad mix, but it depends who the others on the panel are. Someone like Carlin or Vidal would never let him get away with it.


I can remember at least once this season where the panel was totally made up of Dems/liberals/left wingers and quite frankly, it was pretty damn boring and unfunny with everyone politely agreeing with each other. Now I've never seen an episode with three Repugs on it, and it's rare that you even get two. I love the contentiousness and honesty (even through the dishonesty of some guests) of the show that you just don't find anywhere else. If you want to criticize the show, maybe it's that Bill as a host, refuses to tell anyone to shut up and let another guy speak even when he should.

But it seems to me we laugh out loud at the crying conservatives who refuse to watch the show because it's "too liberal" and now people don't want to watch because there are too many Repugs? Crazy.

[BJW]

14. Not that there's "too many" repugs, exactly,

but that it's been basically the same ones, again and again, who are highly experienced on TV media.

So, the end result is that I end up seeing the same people, who I can see and listen to any other day of the week, 365 days a year, over and over, again and again, and these people use their media experience and skills to run right over the other guests.

I'd really like to see Bill invite on some people who don't get heard in the MSM--other conservatives, other liberals, experts, scientists, New Agers, libertarians, communists, socialists, fundies, etc., anybody but these predictably rude a-holes spewing talking points!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. I get the feeling though.........

...that not too many Cons have the guts to go on his show, thereby limiting who he can get. I think he lands people that he either has a personal relationship with or who aren't intimidated and who are up to the challenge, most of which would be the "polished" talking heads. I think the pool of which to pick from is probably slim, and I wouldn't be surprised if his show is blacklisted by a lot of righties who want the show to fail and have nothing to do with it.

And at the same time, he might get some Con you've never heard of on there who would REALLY make your stomach turn!

[sandnsea]

22. Sometimes, but Bill could do better

He clearly doesn't keep up, I'm not even sure he reads Arianna's blog. The right wing gets away with too many lies because Bill doesn't know what he's talking about. Last week Snow got away with saying Wilson lied because Bill didn't know he was talking about the partisan addendum. And it was as if Bill had never even heard the talking point before. You've got to be smarter than that if you want to be effective against these guys. I'm not sure Bill really gets what is going on with the press, even after the Judy Miller incestuous magnification. That's what gets annoying when he has them on, if he's got somebody smart against them, then it's great.

[BJW]

25. More on Tony Snow's TP lies

speaking of his TP lies...

he also got away with the lie that women have more rights and more opportunities in Iraq now than they had under Saddam (paraphrasing here), and, wonder of wonders, they even get to go to school now.

The truth is that, except for Israel, under Saddam, women had the most rights of any country in that region, education was free, women held high level jobs, women were professors, truck drivers, doctors,lawyers, etc.

But now, it sure looks like women's status in Iraq is going to go down the toilet.

I think the repugs have done an amazing job on this TP by repeating this over and over again while fusing the imagery and news reports of Afghani woman living under Taliban rule, and Saudi women living under Wahabbist code, and Nigerian women living under Shia law--so that the average American the thinks that it's "obvious" women in Iraq are better off because of the US invasion, so of course, nobody disputes it.

[sandnsea]

34. In fairness, SOME women

I think it's reasonable to remember that Saddam gave freedoms to some segments of society while oppressing others. I can't quite get to the place where I praise Saddam for the freedoms of a few women at the expense of other women being raped and tortured.

But I do agree that women are not getting the kind of rights they should be getting, not in Afghanistan or Iraq. I get reports all the time from Mavis Leno's group, we're not doing right by these people at all.

[countmyvote4real]

15. I echo much of these comments, but…

I was also interested to be informed by the former Irish President and a woman at that, but I was a bit put-off by some of her earlier comments that seemed self-serving by grandstanding her accomplishments. Still, as the show progressed she was much more deferential and diplomatic as she engaged and challenged Scarborough who at times seemed to forget that he was a guest panelist and not the host. But I still have to put much of the fault on the failure to communicate on Mary Robinson and a venue that is clearly foreign to her. And yet I think that she managed to make her points. It just took awhile.

Scarborough was clearly there on self-promotion marching orders, armed with talking points. He knows this drill and it was easy for him to commandeer the situation at times, even if his argument was totally bogus. What’s most illuminating is that there are glimpses that he knows that Bush is toast.

And true to most ship sinking deserter rats, he could not stop invoking the neo-con repackaged myths of St. Reagan. For me, Reagan was the WORST President ever, until now. In fairness, by comparison to * Reagan probably does come off looking like a saint, but they can both take equal share in the destruction of the American citizenship that I swore an oath to when I got my passport. (Did I make that up?)

As far as John Waters goes, he delivered on his promise. Did anyone really expect an Obama experience from him? I was happy with the D E F. (For those that didn’t see it, that stands for “Don’t Ever Fuck” and that was his response to a very eloquent story by Mary Robinson about the A B C rule used to contain the spread of AIDS in Africa.)

Bill Maher is not my chosen or favorite voice for the revolution, but his venue has provided an open mike (especially on HBO) for those whose views will NOT be heard in a large way anyplace else.

Sorry to learn that this is it until February. If we’re not all dead from bird flu by then, I would really like to see Margaret Cho as guest. Any takers?

Peace. (Does that closing irritate you as much as it does me? You know, like the notion would never occur to me otherwise unless someone posted that word after an argument, discussion or voice-mail greeting.)

[BJW]

31. John Waters and ABC--DEF!!

Yeah, Waters' "DEF" was truly hysterical!!!

But because Bill keeps on inviting the prof-repug-pundits (PRP) onto his panels that's about the only thing he really got to say! I really wanted to hear more of Waters' voice, and from Ireland's former president, but Scarborough wouldn't shut up so neither got to say much at all.

Margaret Cho doesn't get invited onto "talkie shows" so yeah, I'd like to see her as a guest on Maher's show every once in a while. I'd also like to see other guests that aren't the "usual suspects."

I mean, why limit the range of political viewpoints in the guest list? Why not invite more foreign journalists, socialists, communists, homeless advocates, peace advocates, Buddhists, former diplomats, career military, scientists, etc....why is the guest list so predictably limited?

[anitar1]

18. I don't have HBO, but sure as heck would not watch

Scarborough!

[Moochy]

19. Scarborough

is a disrespectful hack, right wing boor. His treatment of the Irish president made him look even more like a jackass bully.

[NightOwwl]

21. I gotta say this...

Bill Maher wears some of the nicest suits I've ever seen. They really are beautiful.

OK...now I'm ready to watch the show.

[thecrow]

23. One Rwinger I;d like to see on his show is the Smirk....

He wouldn't have anything productive to say, but I'd love to see that.

[xxqqqzme]

24. this bugs me as well.

I sent HBO an email once 2 that effect - If I wanted 2 listen 2 right wing, know-nothing screamers, I'd save money 'n watch fux.

[npincus]

26. c'mon... where else would you hear Sanjay Gupta say "shit" on TV?

Maher is great, and he always wins the battle of wits no matter who his opponent is. I like the diversity on his panels, and his confrontations with well-known conservative/RW pundits and politicians not accustomed to having their dear Chimp savaged by a rapier wit. I thought Scarborough looked like an apoplectic ass with veins bulging and raised voice last night- "dominating" air time does not mean winning the argument, or being persuasive. The opposite- Dr. Gupta sarcastically offered Scarborough some Valium to calm him down.

I think we have C-SPAN, C-SPAN2 & C-SPAN3 to access the spectrum of issues we care about and the people who represent them. But then, C-SPAN isn't where I go for a laugh. Maher's show is smart entertainment. Limited time is alloted for each guest and segment. It is relevant to the issues of the moment; watch it even a week late and the material feels dated. Maher does a GREAT job skewering the right and what's wrong with America. A GREAT job. I will miss him, BOO HOO.

My hunch is that Maher invites the people HE wants to meet, and juxtaposes personalities according to his humor, talks about the topics on his mind, and is not guided by a commitment to educate the rest of us. Actually, he likes to shut us up (audience whooping and hollering) because it intrudes upon his discussion and time to complete his point. (my opinion, folks!)

[BJW]

28. There's a Difference Here

You're mixing apples and oranges in your analysis

When Bill interviews people one-on-one, like the satellite interview with Gupta, this works fairly well. Bill gets to engage in a back'n forth that is, in fact, pretty entertaining.

It's different when Bill's panel includes highly-exposed media pundits (who often already have their own TV shows). Their media skills allow them to rudely bulldoze over the other guests, and dominate the air with talking points, and the other guests hardly get a word in edgewise.

And finally, while Gupta is media-savvy, no doubt, he's a TV reporter with a specific area of expertise, not a professional political pundit. The essential differences are that Gupta is not invested in spewing TPs like these others are, nor is he practiced in the art of bulldozing, spinning and domination of discourse.

[npincus]

30. I understand what you are saying

I guess it doesn't bother me.

When you take such RW blow-hards and windbags out of their comfort zone and put them on Maher's show- I think the people who watch "Real Time" are not the audience they normally blow gas at on their TV shows, a non-sycophantic audience that doesn't buy the bullshit- and juxtapose them with intelligent, articulate, extremely funny people who undercut their nonsense with facts and logic, it really is effective in unmasking these jerks and making their ideas (and selves) look foolish.

From watching such people pontificate and try to bulldoze others with flim-flam, I find they define themselves correctly, as jackasses. It's my personal view, and I laugh at their vulgarity and stupidity. Like letting an obnoxious, blabbering drunk command attention at a party- all observers know the person is a fool. I think Maher always gets the last word and dresses them down to my satisfaction!

But I do respect your point of view. I myself don't watch Scarborough's show, or others of his ilk. Yech.

[BJW]

33. Oh Duh!

You wrote--"But I do respect your point of view. I myself don't watch Scarborough's show, or others of his ilk. Yech."

Maybe that's part of why this bugs me so much--I actually do watch the gasbags (to check out the TPSs). Maybe their presence on Maher's show wouldn't bug me so much if I limited my non-Maher consumption.

[otohara]

29. Sanjay Was Delightful

Damn that man is handsome - the Valium offer to that loud mouth Scarborough was just precious.

[moddemny]

35. How Boring.........

Another one of those Bill Maher is not perfect threads.

Yawn.........

[BJW]

36. Thanks, but no thanks for the snark

Instead of making snarky little insults on a thread, how bout reading the posts and then adding something substantive to the discussion instead?

Do you think it's okay for DUers to discuss the show? If not, why not? Are there only certain topics you feel are appropriate for discussion at DU? Why?

If you do think it's okay for DUers to discuss the show, tell us, what do you think about it? Do you like it, don't like it? Why? Would you like Bill have on a different caliber of guests?

Let's hear what you think about the show, rather than snarky dismissive and insulting comments to other DUers on threads that "bore" you.

How juvenile and narcissistic!

[moddemny]

38. HAHAHAHAHAHA

"Do you think it's okay for DUers to discuss the show?"

Not for me to tell people what to discuss, DUer's can talk about anything they want. I do however come to DU to find substantive information or new facts about current situations and I do consider wading through a lot of posts here as a waste of time, especially the ones that knock Bill Maher after every show because he doesn't fit someone's perfect little view of how things should be run. That's a recurring theme on DU, shitting on people who are on your side (I am speaking very broadly so don't take this personally, but I have seen many anti- Bill Maher threads.......... if you are looking to call people out on snarkiness do a search and find some of those other threads and see who is being snarky.), it's not just Maher, it happens to Kerry, Clinton even Michael Moore and Jon Stewart (to mention just a few---- I won't even bring up other Democrats like Biden or Levin) once they diverge with a point of view that does not conform to some unspoken consensus on here.


"tell us, what do you think about it? Do you like it, don't like it? Why? Would you like Bill have on a different caliber of guests? "


I love the show even though I don't agree with Bill Maher on every single thing he says....... I consider the totality of what he says and don't decide to not watch the show ever again when he does not perfectly line up with my views. Bill Maher is very, very, very anti-Bush. He calls Bush on almost everything on every show yet when he mentions something that sounds a little conservative he gets dumped on by half of the people on this board. Maher has done more to counter/beat/ Bush than almost anyone out there (including the bulk of the posters here combined) when the rest of the media was largely silent. The only reason he hasn't had an even greater effect is because he is on cable (which many people don't have) only once a week and doesn't reach a wider audience regularly.


As for the right wing guests........... When they are on most of them get their asses handed to them. It 's nice to see some of those "major pundits" get their butts so easily kicked. Then they don't look so omnipotent to their supporters. Bill is way ahead here when it comes to strategy, way way way ahead then what people give him credit for on DU. He is secure enough in his views that he can comfortably, confidently debate the other side. He usually makes them look like fools. (maybe some people on this board should take some cues from Maher and not run to hit the alert button when someone posts something that sounds semi conservative...... it makes liberals look weak and uncertain , unable to stand the tests of reality. I personally don't have a problem debating hardcore Bush supporters when I meet them, they are some of the easiest debates I have ever had in my life, I don't see why others what to exclude every other viewpoint so quickly...... doesn't come across as very "progressive")



How else can I some up my feelings about his show? Usually I after watching his show I am all over the floor almost dying of laughter, thinking, wow, that was great, am I glad someone like him is on TV and then I log on to the alternate universe here on DU and find plenty of posts nitpicking over the things he said and people swearing they will never watch him again or how he is a sell out for having conservatives on his show, yada, yada, yada, etc, etc. After a while it just plain gets boring (reading anit-maher posts).

[BJW]

39. Nice Improvement, Minimal Snarking

Appreciate your thoughts and also appreciate the minimal snarking.

Wasn't so difficult, was it? Being more thoughtful, respectful and considerate?

There's a lot of posters here. Am hopeful that if I come across your posts again in the future that you'll be continuing to demonstrate the substantially improved board citizenship that you've shown your capable of here.

Thanks!

[mandyky]

37. More often than not, I don't watch

since he has started his "fair and balanced crap" - if I wanted to listen to Joe Scarborough or PJ what's his face (O'Rourke), I'd watch RW media. Humor and counting how many times one can say fuck are two different things.

I am sure BM has been threatened to have on some of these jokers, but unless he has something really interesting looking on, I go to bed before his show starts. I did not watch Friday, and have missed probaly half the shows this season. The ones I _DID_ watch were disappointing.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

40. Bill Maher himself is disappointing...haven't watched him in months n/t

[baron j]

41. When Maher has someone on like Scarborough, his show show should

counterbalance the panel with Mike Malloy. I'd love to see Mike rip Scarboring to shreds.

[Kickin_Donkey]

42. Billy got taken to the woodshed ...

after he made that remark on his old ABC show about how lobbing cruise missiles into Baghdad from a thousand miles away was cowardly.

He came out of it with his tail between his legs. I'm sure he now knows that the suits up in the top floors frown upon having too many liberals, or effective liberal talkers, on their shows. We've heard it regarding Olberman, Jim Lehrer, Phil Donahue, Crosstalk, KGO, etc.