Adult bookstore owner pleads guilty to obscenity charges

[mongo]

Goalie's Wedelstedt Pleads Guilty to Obscenity Charge
By: Dan Miller
Posted: 5:30 pm PST 11-4-2005

DALLAS - Goalie Entertainment owner Edward Wedelstedt pleaded guilty Friday in Dallas to a federal obscenity charge, agreeing to forfeit three adult bookstores in Texas to authorities as part of his plea agreement.

Wedelstedt admitted one count of distributing obscene material in exchange for a 13-month prison term and charges being dropped against his wife and their company, Goalie Entertainment Holdings, Inc., as part of the plea bargain. Wedelstedt's attorney, Hank Asbill, said they came away "pleased" with the agreement considering what was at stake.

"Other than an outright dismissal of all the charges, we’re extremely pleased," Asbill told AVN.com Friday.

“Eddie Wedelstedt for nearly 20 years has operated adults-only bookstores in Texas, and one of those movies out of nearly 200,000 titles have been deemed obscene in the Northern District of Texas (and nowhere else in U.S.). ... Mr. Wedelstedt never personally viewed the movie, nor did he personally send it… But he has taken responsibility.

more (WARNING from adult video news, may contain explicit advertising)
http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&Action=View_Article&Content_ID=246159

-------------------------
What a racket the feds have - sell a movie and you get a year in jail and the feds get your assets. I'm pretty sure he pled to keep his wife out of jail - who was also charged.

Fucking bastards - They are are starting to come for us. When are people going to start to speak out?

But hell, fuck us pornographers. Wait until they come for you.

[benburch]

1. Obscene is what goes on every Sunday in every church in the land.

Where people are told what to think by the preachers of a non-existant god using a work of historical fiction that justifies genocide.

[Qibing Zero]

96. And much worse - well said. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

102. Ramen!

[Jim Sagle]

2. Right on!

:9

[YOY]

3. What was the "movie" they keep refering to?

I didn't see any title mentioned or to the "obscenenities" contained within.

Not that I agree with these stormtroopers whatsoever.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

9. Well, remember...

They bullied him into PLEADING guilty.

Likely they would not have gotten a jury to find these obscene.

[mongo]

20. Titles

Ok, I'll just post the link this time, since the titles with big people words got deleted - even though we can curse like sailors on DU.

The titles are mentioned here (WARNING - sexually explicit advertising at link) http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&Action=View_Article&Content_ID=219679

[benburch]

28. I should make some gamelink links for those titles and post them here...

And then if anybody buys them I'd get a cut... :evilgrin:

[YOY]

46. I really don't see anything related to child porn or anything remotely

beyond normal.

This is pretty f-ed up right here.

[Greyhound]

66. Wrong place n/t

[LoZoccolo]

70. I don't think the mods would censor the word "bukkake".

It's just the Japanese word for "splashing". You can probably use it in everyday conversation over there.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Whoa. Learn something new every day.

God bless the innnernets!

[benburch]

74. I'm betting they had problems with on of George Carlin's 7 words.

You know... The friendly one.

[LoZoccolo]

75. That one shouldn't even be on there.

It sounds like a nickname.

[SoCalDem]

4. He "forfeits" 3 businesses?

yet corporations all over the place knowingly hire undocumented workers for shit wages. putting legal workers out of jobs...and they get a slap on the wrist and a fine...and within hours, they are re-hiring more undocumented workers..

[mongo]

7. Welcome to my world.

He is taking the fall so that his wife and 5 other employees don't have to take a chance.

They wanted to take everything he owns too.

Can you believe this is for the crime of SELLING A MOVIE?

[Midnight Rambler]

5. Finally we can lower the terror alert!

'Murika is safer now that another pornographer is behind bars! Take that ter'rists!

:sarcasm:

[GrpCaptMandrake]

50. Guess that's the final step

since Sheriiff Asscroft put away Tommy "The Bong" Chong an' done run all thim negress whores outta N'Orleans.

Oh, sweet christ, they make my head hurt!

[GrpCaptMandrake]

8. I guess those sanctimonious, pious hypocrites

in the U.S. Attorney's office missed that little passage in Genesis where two underage females get their daddy drunk and screw his lights out and get knocked up.

Is that obscene?

I'm saying "Yes."

[benburch]

10. We should do that as a porn film.

And then let them bust us...

[mongo]

11. Thanks for that

I needed a laugh.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

16. No kidding

You do a realistic depiction of the Olde Testament and you wouldn't even be able to get an NC-17 rating for it.

Gotta remember: Noah's girls got him likkered up and banged him like a cheap chinese gong, too.

But, WOW! What a flick! D.W. Griffith, Sergei Eisenstein, C.B. DeMille, eat your freakin HEARTS out! Watching Dobson, Robertson and Falwell watch the love scenes between David and Jonathan alone would be worth the price of admission.

Damn! What a great idea! Anybody know a good porno movie maker? I'll do the treatment and the script.

Hey, why should Mel Gibson have all the snuff movie fun?

[lildreamer316]

32. Thou art evil and hilarious.

I love it.

[BiggJawn]

53. Can I play Noah?

:evilgrin:

Bo-Howdy! THAT'D be a hell of a Sunday School pageant, wouldn't it?

[existentialist]

57. Wasn't that Lot rather than Noah?

[A HERETIC I AM]

76. Yes, it was Lot....Gen19:30 -38

Lots two daughters get him drunk and boff him on succesive nights, both get pregnant and have sons.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

87. Check Noah

It wasn't like the LotTwins didn't have a role model.

Meanwhile, 3,500 years later in a Roadhouse in Austin . . .

"Whaddya mean ya wanna see my I.D.?! I'm Jenna-friggin-Bush an' I want another Cuervo, dammit!"

[A HERETIC I AM]

101. I did. The passage i think you are referring to is Gen9:20-24

That talks about Noah being drunk and naked and his SONS covering him up. No mention that i could find of him boffing his daughters.
I'm in a hotel and have a KJV Gideons bible as a reference.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

111. I'll have to re-check

You may be right.

[lildreamer316]

12. And the hits just keep on coming.

Wish I could make that a pun. No laughing matter.
You know, I really was hoping we could all put this argument on the back burner until we got these idiots out of office. Now I have to divide my energy between fighting the right wing and educating the left.(not on this thread, just in general--mongo knows) Fun fun fun.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

I'd put my money

on fighting the right. Educating the left may be right next door to im-damned-possible. It's a little known fact, but we're up to our gazoos in "sunshine patriots" just like the right.

Gotta go. Think I'm late for either kum-by-yah chorus practice or daisy-chain-weaving master (or mistress) class.

:hurts: :yoiks:

[lildreamer316]

41. LOL

thanks for the humor. Its just frustrating when the very people you think have your back you end up fighting....cause they think you are just SO evil for getting naked semi-publicly for money. Oh the horror.
ANYway....I'm gonna leave the good fight for this evening. Cheesy 80s music is calling me.......

[GrpCaptMandrake]

48. Ohhhhh!

I *looooove* cheesy 80s music. We use it for the bumper music on the show as much as possible. I was honestly horrified when Gwen Stefani covered "It's My Life." My wife bumped out of one break this evening with "Take On Me."

There was some decidedly romantic stuff done in that era.

[lildreamer316]

56. Please see my earlier post...

for some fun reminders (hubby is a DJ, we are constatly trying to one-up each other for who can come up with the most obscure 80s song).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4254383

(check my lists in my replies)

[GrpCaptMandrake]

68. Off to the "Various Artists" bin for me!

Thanks for the brazillion ideas!

Keep trying to figure out a way to work "Up the Junction" by Squeeze into the show. It's so personal, though, it's been hard to do. It's ultra-real.

It's amazing how much substance there is in a genre/style that was routinely dinged as being utterly without redeeming value. There was some real musicianship and even more lyrical honesty.

Sorry.

/ebert off

[GrpCaptMandrake]

69. And . . .

not to whack a dead horse too much, and it's a little pre-80s technically, but . . .

Sniff n' the Tears

My overall favorite all-time album is probably Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly." Ricki Lee Jones' "Pirates" runs a close second. Great production just speaks to me.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

71. Come to think of it

Manfred Mann's "The Roaring Silence" stands as a pretty brilliant New Wave precursor. I seldom hear much talk about it in that vein. The calliope-flavored opening riff of "Blinded By The Light" speaks of the electronica to come, while the artful expression of the Bruce Springsteen lyric carries the song diametrically away from its gritty roots.

Oh, crap. I better go to bed. I'm getting into detail.

[walldude]

77. Woo Hoo! Drivers Seat!!

One of the best tunes of all time!

Here's a few more, I also posted these on Dreamers post in the Lounge

Voices-Russ Ballard
Mexican Radio-Wall Of Voodoo
I Don't Like Mondays-Boomtown Rats
Go For Soda-Kim Mitchell

[GrpCaptMandrake]

84. I live for Wall of VooDoo's

"Mexican Radio." All our kids can sing "I wish I was in Tia-juana/Eating barbecued Iguana," especially after viewing the episode of Tony Bourdian's "A Cook's Tour" where he eats an iguana tamale.

We used to use "I Don't Like Mondays" for our "Republican Criminal of the Week" segment. May have to revive that.

[benburch]

81. Ariel

By Dean Friedman...

Way on the other side of the hudson,
Deep in the bosom of suburbia,
I met a young girl, she sang mighty fine,
Tears on my pillow and ave maria.
Standing by the waterfall in paramus park
She was working for the friends-of-bai
She was collecting quarters in a paper cup.
She was looking for change and so was i.


She was a jewish girl. i fell in love with her.
She wrote her number on the back of my hand.
I called her up, i was all out of breath, i said,
"come hear me play in my rock and roll band.
I took a shower and i put on my best blue jeans.
I picked her up in my new vw van.
She wore a peasant blouse with nothing underneath.
I said, "hi". she said, "yeah, i guess i am."


Ariel

We had a little time, we were real hungry.
We went to dairy queen for something to eat.
She had some onion rings. she had a pickle.
She forgot to tell me that she didn't eat meat.
I had a gig in the american legion hall.
It was a dance for the volunteer ambulance corp.
She was sitting in a corner against the wall.
She would smile and i melted all over the floor.


Ariel

I took her home with me. we watched some tv,
Annette funicello and some guy going steady.
I started fooling around with the vertical hold.
We got the munchies and i made some spaghetti.
We sat and we talked into the night,
While channel 2 was signing off the air.
I found the softness of her mouth.
We made love to bombs bursting in arrrrrriel.

Ariel

[GrpCaptMandrake]

85. Holy hell!

Eighth Grade!

I've "come unstuck in time! Poo-tee-weet!"

[benburch]

86. Hell, you're a youngster!

:evilgrin:

[GrpCaptMandrake]

88. May be, but

you can well imagine the nexus of rampant testosterone, pre-teen late-70s angst and cerebral muscle-memory that attends that time period.

I come completely unglued at "Year of the Cat." It's embarassing, but it's hard-wired and I can't do a blessed thing about it.

But a lot of the stuff I heard on the radio did that. It's part of why I loved radio as a kid.

It stuck.

[Horse with no Name]

110. Here is one for ya

Vanz Kant Danz by John Fogerty

Had a great video too with claymation and pigs. (I loved the early days of MTV)

Artist/Band: Fogerty John
Lyrics for Song: Vanz Kant Danz
Lyrics for Album: Centerfield
Chorus:
Vanz can’t dance, but he’ll steal your money,
Watch him or he’ll rob you blind. (x 4)

Chorus

Out in the street a crowd is gatherin’,
Pushed down by the heat of the building, they’re wantin’ to dance.
Makin’ their way up the street, a boy with a pig and a radio;
Little billy can work on the crowd, put ’em into a trance,
For the little pig vanz.

Chorus

You’re watchin’ ’em dance, not a care in the world;
So billy and vanz get busy, they’re makin’ their move;
The little pig knows what to do, he’s silent and quick, just like oliver twist;
Before it’s over, your pocket is clean,
A four-legged thief paid a visit on you.

Chorus
Chorus
Chorus

[GrpCaptMandrake]

58. I can't speak

to the issue of semi-public disrobing, but I do know my wife and I have tried really hard to make our kids comfortable in their own skins and with their own physiques. I learned it doing theatre. Modesty has no place when you've just come howling off-stage into the waiting arms of two utterly dispassionate "dressers," who then get you out of a revolutionary war uniform down to next to nothing and into full tux and tails. ("The Matchmaker")

Modesty is probably a sin, anyway, false or otherwise, if there's actually any such thing as sin.

[benburch]

78. Let's Sing!

KUMBAYA

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

[lildreamer316]

92. ROTFLMAO

I'm dyin here. Sheesh.

[omega minimo]

13. Your persecuted plight as a pornographer

explains a lot.

"But hell, fuck us pornographers. Wait until they come for you. "

[benburch]

14. Re-write that?

But make sense this time?

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. You're supposed to assume that pornography is BAAAAAAD

Y'know, like all the normal people? :sarcasm:

[omega minimo]

18. Looks like bullying goes with the territory

[truebrit71]

19. WTF??

..what are you on about?

[benburch]

24. I couldn't make sense of either reply...

I ask for a clarification and I am a "bully"???

[omega minimo]

25. And now the "innocence" and the victimization!

It all makes sense now!

[benburch]

26. I wish you made sense!

I am still trying to figure out what you are trying to say?

[Warren DeMontague]

59. It's in code. Bottom line? Free Speech is only for stuff that doesn't

personally bug her. Porn isn't included.

But, for instance-- 20 punk kids lighting mailboxes on fire and breaking windows on Market street taking the press away from a peaceful antiwar demonstration of 100K? They are making a legitimate statement... We should LISTEN to what they HAVE to SAY.

And don't bother disagreeing, you will only be displaying your aggressive bullying tendency towards oppression. (Funny, that someone speaking up for the first amendment is a bully, but a kid with spiked hair and an anarchy tattoo throwing a brick through the windows of starbucks is 'misunderstood') Nope, anything you might possibly say to defend, for instance, the right of consenting adults to read or watch what the &^&^%$ (don't like them swear words, either) they choose in the privacy of their own homes-- that amounts to "playing the victim" and "engaging in reversals"..

(The code is not meant for you. The gang who spend all their time speaking that language understand full well what she's on about.)

[omega minimo]

61. Speaking of nonsense

[Warren DeMontague]

63. Maybe I'm wrong. They're little one line verbal rorschach inkblots

they mean whatever one wants them to mean.

[lildreamer316]

64. I like it!!

"little one line verbal rorschach inkblots"

Gonna use that, thanks....with credit of course.

[mongo]

117. verbal rorschach inkblots

:rofl:

[mongo]

116. You are doing a wonderful public service

alerting us to the dangers of posting while intoxicated.

[omega minimo]

122. Thank you-- I better understand your persecution as a pornmonger

and your fear now.

:hug:

[mongo]

128. I will take your words at face value

Thank you for understanding.

I hope this is the start of a truce between us.

peace.

[omega minimo]

132. Yes, it seems that sense of persecution has

colored your perception of my words before

[lildreamer316]

27. HOLD up.

Do I "hear" correctly that you are saying we as people employed in the adult entertaiment industry should EXPECT to be bullied?

Waiting...........

[benburch]

30. That's how I read it, but I cannot seem to parse this person's english.

Obviously not a first language, so I am trying to be patient.

[lildreamer316]

31. I am not so patient today, sorry.

Will try to rein myself in.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

73. Saucer of milk

for Post 30!

:evilgrin:

Who's in charge of the emoticons? Why isn't there one for "catty?"

No flames please. I'm compu-challenged and know it. I can barely create the alphabet in sequence on a computer, and that with the spell-check on.

:crazy:

[LoZoccolo]

82. I think the implication is that you're supposed to already know.

You're right though, it is a foreign language. This one's called "identity politics". In this particular sentence structure in the language, the most obviously intentionally malicious motives on the part of the listener are left unsaid, sort of like how subjects in sentences in some languages are implied by the verb tense.

[omega minimo]

119. Identifying, not "identiity"

The pieces of the puzzle have dropped into place.
There is no malice.
The patterns of knee-jerk behavior that hobble cross-"identity" discussions are clear now.

(New subject) Here is a riddle:

How "free" is Free Speech if we are not operating with open minds?

:think:

[GrpCaptMandrake]

90. From her pattern

I'm thinking she might have responded to a PETA comment.

[omega minimo]

33. Incomprehension, illogical reversals! Eureka!

[lildreamer316]

35. Are you going to run naked down a street shouting that?

It could be seen as obscene.

[benburch]

47. Wow...

It is like having a conversation with Charles Fort.

[lildreamer316]

49. I think

he is just baiting us, so I'm gonna leave it.

[benburch]

54. I suspect you are right.

Motive seems mysterious, though.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

91. Great ancient history ref!

Score!

[BiggJawn]

55. Must be some good drugs going down there....n/t

[flvegan]

17. What exactly was "obscene" anyway?

The titles that you listed don't strike me as being obscene in that (in my opinion, obscene being) they involved underaged sex, bestiality, rape, violence or anything between non-consulting adults. Granted, I haven't seen any of the titles (I'm not really up on my porn...should be...no "activity" over here) but c'mon...

[mongo]

36. I'm sure they didn't involve underage sex or bestiality

or actual rape or actual violence.

I'm sure the devil's film relase didn't contain simulated rape or violence either.

The other ones, I'm not sure - unless a slap on the butt is violent.

[flvegan]

39. I'm sure as well, which is why I find this

so wrong.

Just didn't know what EXACTLY they were prosecuting.

I need to go delete my Ginger Lynn collection, I guess...

[mongo]

121. Perfectly legal to own

just illegal to sell, rent, distribute, furnish, exhibit, etc.

So don't try screening them in the back yard at the next block party.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

93. Then it's not like

Scooter Libby's 1996 "novel" "The Apprentice," which features characters having sex with a dead deer, as well as prepubescent girls caged with a male bear to "teach them to be frigid." Really. No kidding.

Where's that danged ol' FBI when you need 'em?!

[bloom]

136. If you want to read up on modern mainstream porn...

see this:

A cruel edge: The painful truth about today's pornography -- and what men can do about it

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/pornography&cruelty.htm

[mongo]

139. You're late to the party

but glad our resident shill for the would be censors could show up.

As far as Jenson goes - of the movies he profiles only one (the Wicked release) could be considered mainstream.

And truth is, I could write just as damning critique of an episode of The Simpsons. It's full of "child abuse" you know. It teaches kids to be abusers when they grow up.

Perhaps you would like a hate speech law like Canada's. Did you know that the first prosecution under that law was against a Lesbian bookstore?

Did you know that the first obscenity law in America was used to go after Margaret Sanger and her pamphlet on birth control?

Be careful what you ask for - you might get more than you bargained for.

[ghostsofgiants]

21. So what exactly is it that qualifies as obscene, anyway?

And I want a serious answer, not just "anything that pisses off the fundies" or something.

[mongo]

34. Under federal law ANY explicit movie - no matter how vanilla

can be charged with obscenity - and under most state's laws to.

It is up to a jury to decide if the work is obscene - and therefore illegal.

[ghostsofgiants]

37. How explicit do you mean?

Could a film like Ken Park or Brown Bunny be deemed obscene based on the blowjob scenes, for example?

[mongo]

40. Crap - I don't have time to explain

and I'm not sure of the movies you are refering to.

But I'll give you a more thourgh answer tomorrow. I've been here since noon and we close at midnight and I have to count the drawer and get it to my wife so she can do the cash report.

Well be on our way home by 12:05.

[ghostsofgiants]

43. Alright, cool

Thanks for explaining at all though, it seems like a really fucked up situation.

[mongo]

123. The law.

I'm posting Ohio law because it is easier for me to find, but the federal law is simalar, as is the 40(?) other states that still have obscenity laws:

§ 2907.32. Pandering obscenity.

(A) No person, with knowledge of the character of the material or performance involved, shall do any of the following:

(1) Create, reproduce, or publish any obscene material, when the offender knows that the material is to be used for commercial exploitation or will be publicly disseminated or displayed, or when the offender is reckless in that regard;

(2) Promote or advertise for sale, delivery, or dissemination; sell, deliver, publicly disseminate, publicly display, exhibit, present, rent, or provide; or offer or agree to sell, deliver, publicly disseminate, publicly display, exhibit, present, rent, or provide, any obscene material;

(3) Create, direct, or produce an obscene performance, when the offender knows that it is to be used for commercial exploitation or will be publicly presented, or when the offender is reckless in that regard;

(4) Advertise or promote an obscene performance for presentation, or present or participate in presenting an obscene performance, when the performance is presented publicly, or when admission is charged;

(5) Buy, procure, possess, or control any obscene material with purpose to violate division (A)(2) or (4) of this section.

(B) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this section, that the material or performance involved was disseminated or presented for a bona fide medical, scientific, educational, religious, governmental, judicial, or other proper purpose, by or to a physician, psychologist, sociologist, scientist, teacher, person pursuing bona fide studies or research, librarian, clergyman, prosecutor, judge, or other person having a proper interest in the material or performance.

(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of pandering obscenity, a felony of the fifth degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of a violation of this section or of section 2907.31 of the Revised Code, then pandering obscenity is a felony of the fourth degree.
-------------
The biggest difference in the federal law is that you can get up to 5 years for a firts offense, instead of up to 1 year under ohio law. Subsequent offenses under federal law can get you up to 10 years. There are also RICO specifications under the federal law, which you see in action in the original story above.

But OK -- how is "obscenity" defined under the law?

(F) When considered as a whole, and judged with reference to ordinary adults or, if it is designed for sexual deviates or other specially susceptible group, judged with reference to that group, any material or performance is "obscene" if any of the following apply:

(1) Its dominant appeal is to prurient interest;

(2) Its dominant tendency is to arouse lust by displaying or depicting sexual activity, masturbation, sexual excitement, or nudity in a way that tends to represent human beings as mere objects of sexual appetite;

(3) Its dominant tendency is to arouse lust by displaying or depicting bestiality or extreme or bizarre violence, cruelty, or brutality;

(4) Its dominant tendency is to appeal to scatological interest by displaying or depicting human bodily functions of elimination in a way that inspires disgust or revulsion in persons with ordinary sensibilities, without serving any genuine scientific, educational, sociological, moral, or artistic purpose;

(5) It contains a series of displays or descriptions of sexual activity, masturbation, sexual excitement, nudity, bestiality, extreme or bizarre violence, cruelty, or brutality, or human bodily functions of elimination, the cumulative effect of which is a dominant tendency to appeal to prurient or scatological interest, when the appeal to such an interest is primarily for its own sake or for commercial exploitation, rather than primarily for a genuine scientific, educational, sociological, moral, or artistic purpose.

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC
-------------------------------------
So, given the above definitions and the fact that mere nudity is enough to trip the law, you can be arrested for selling a copy of Playboy. Chilling effect on free speech, anyone?

But no one is arrested for selling Playboy - because in order for a work to be actually "obscene" and therefor illegal, a jury has to find it obscene (if you don't plead out anyway), using the miller test:

-----------------------
The Miller test was developed in the 1973 case Miller v. California. It has three parts:

* Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

The third condition is also known as the SLAPS test. The work is considered obscene only if all three conditions are satisfied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

So there you have it --

MODS - PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE DON'T DELETE THIS POST - we are talking about legal issues here - I am quoting the law.

[ghostsofgiants]

135. I can definitely understand 3 & 4, and the parts of 5 that refer to 3 & 4

At least somewhat. Some of it still shouldn't warrant having the state fuck with you (outside of the violent stuff).

But 1 & 2...the fact that someone could go to jail for that is fucked up.

[mongo]

137. The hardest part

is that I am now the de-facto arbitor of "community" values - and if I guess wrong or don't know what is in one of 1700 movies in my back room - I go to jail.

And as far as 3&4 - nobody in the legit adult distribution chain is putting out bestiality or scat porn. As far as violence - that is a tricky line to contemplate, especially when it is consentualand/or simulated.

[ghostsofgiants]

138. I definitely don't envy your position

That's ridiculous.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

112. From what I rememeber about US law

it's fine to OWN anything, give or take, under the First Amendment -- however the sale & purchase of ANYTHING can potentially fall foul of obscenity laws. Something is judged obscene by a jury, in a court, in accordance with a test (which has a name, but buggered if I can remember it) that stemmed from an obscenity trial some years back.
You therefore have the problem of different juristictions ruling different things obscene or not.

But in answer to your question, in my understanding a case could be brought against those films, although it almost certainly would get thrown out of court (unless it happened to fall in, say, a highly pro-censorhip community who applied an incredibly heavy interpretation of the law.)

In the UK (where films must pass through a censorship body & imported films must get through customs) I'm almost certain that the auto-erotic asphyxiation in Ken Park would be deemded an obscene act. (Others certainly include S&M - as light as spanking that leaves a mark, so-called 'violent pornography', rimming, female ejaculation, watersports, scat & more.)

All that said, mongo is the man & he can correct the many errors of my ways!

[Marnieworld]

22. Fucking bastards

[mongo]

38. MARNIEWORLD!

where have you been? I haven't seen you around lately.

Big big hug for you!! :hug:

[Marnieworld]

129. Gee thanks. Right back at you!

I've had a horrible cold this week so I've been lurking mostly. I would have written more originally but I was using a bad keyboard.

I can't believe that the government has the right to steal 3 businesses over one movie in a store. There are so many battles to fight the ACLU is overwhelmed I'm sure. Yet somehow this has to be fought. This is the thought police destroying lives. It's sickening.

Businesses sell cigarettes yet they prosper and live without fear. A family is destroyed over a film. I don't even know what is in the film but if it doesn't give you cancer what's the harm?

[obxhead]

23. Pot heads have been speaking out for decades with little

luck. Porn may see even less luck if we continue allowing religious rights into politics and laws.

[lildreamer316]

29. I was making this point earlier today

to someone via PM. The correlation between the suppression/demonization of drugs and of porn(and rest of adult industry) is basically the same....if both were legal/accepted more; there would be less "bad" in both. Suppression never works--in any scenario.

[obxhead]

42. klink

:toast:

[lildreamer316]

44. indeed! n/t

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

127. You'd appreciate Eric Schlosser's last book "Reefer Madness"

which looks at the war on pot, the porn industry (& illegal workers).

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618446702

[mongo]

130. "Reefer Madness" is an excellent read

and a good biography of Ruben Sturman as well - may he rest in peace.

Good yarn of the olde days of the industry as well.

[Az]

45. Sorry but your chosen form of happiness is not specifically listed

While others may choose to pursue happiness in this nation the founding fathers clearly forgot to include the list of prescribed forms of happiness that we are free to pursue. This oversite is being taken care of by concerned citizens throught out the nation as we speak. Any that do not choose to pursue the prescribed forms of happiness will be dealt with as the criminals they clearly must be. Obviously only criminals would choose to partake in forms of happiness that do not appear on the list of prescribed forms of happiness that is being drafted right now. Please await further information as to whether you currently are on the approved list of happiness. We may find you are a criminal too in the next update of the approved forms of happiness list.

[lildreamer316]

51. LOL

and a little too close to the truth.....Orwell?

[omega minimo]

52. Annoying feminists?

[Lilith Velkor]

62. Az is a feminist, but I don't find him annoying at all.

YMMV.

[Der Blaue Engel]

99. You keep injecting nonsequiters and sentence fragments

I seriously don't get what you're trying to say, as others have commented.

If you want to make a point, why don't you just come out and clearly state it instead of playing some word game? If it's a valid point, why won't you explain?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

107. Is writing a 3-line paragraph with your opinion beyond your ability?

Or are you PUI? (Posting Under Influence)

[omega minimo]

115. No

[benburch]

131. I lean towards organic brain disease...

rather than being under the influence.

[omega minimo]

133. Preferable to

arrogant brain disease

:freak:

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Happiness itself is suspect.

We would strongly prefer a patriotic dose of misery and paranoia.. Keeps the hamsters running on the wheels much more efficiently.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Reason #2,305 to stay the fuck out of Texas.

Didn't they arrest some woman for selling vibrators not too long ago?

Ah, so nice to have a ministry of vice and virtue.

[benburch]

79. But this was a FEDERAL rap!

And they could have tried it in ANY venue.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Oy. Missed that. Even better.

My tax dollars at work. Guess a few of 'em needed a short break from the vitally important work of hauling pot smoking cancer grannies off to jail. Wonderful!

[walldude]

83. The law in Texas is really wierd

you can buy vibrators, but it has to be for "educational purposes" only. Not sure what they mean by that. :crazy: I saw a documentary on those Texas laws at a GLBT film festival. They put a bunch of them together with the anti-sodomy law to make sure it would pass. After the laws passed the two Repuke sponsors shook hands, Molly Ivins said it was the last time a dick would touch an asshole in Texas :rofl:


As far as the OP is concerned, this really sucks, shit like this is going to embolden them to press harder. Pretty soon they will have all the women wearing chastity belts :eyes:

[Greyhound]

67. Hope you're stashing your cash out of the country. n/t

[mongo]

124. What cash?

We're a three year old mom-n-pop retailer with an 800sf store in an economically depressed area. We work for less than minimum wage and no health insur.

We're right at that point in the business that all the retail books warned us about. Sales going up but cash flow in the toilet.

[Greyhound]

134. Sounds too familiar, sorry. n/t

[ConsAreLiars]

89. "First they came for the ..."

Those who hate freedom of every sort always begin by attacking the easiest targets. But it is not just an accident that Ashcroft and Gonzales and this whole gang attack porn and prostitution and gays and sex ed in schools, and do nothing to reduce real crime with real victims and real harm. They are the Puritans of our past and, if we don't fight on every front, our future (see The Handmaid's Tale). These attacks on porn are part of a larger war against free choice in every arena.

[lildreamer316]

94. Well said.

and not said enough.

Handmaid's Tale indeed--required reading.

[Rich Hunt]

95. north district of Texas

It's obscenity in the North District of Texas. Not cool, but...

Eddie Wedelstedt for nearly 20 years has operated adults-only bookstores in Texas, and one of those movies out of nearly 200,000 titles have been deemed obscene in the Northern District of Texas (and nowhere else in U.S.). ... Mr. Wedelstedt never personally viewed the movie, nor did he personally send it… But he has taken responsibility.

Wedelstedt will be sentenced in February. He and seven others were named in a 23-count indictment in March for racketeering, obscenity and tax charges. The judge must either accept the terms of the entire plea agreement or reject it, at which time Wedelstedt can withdraw his plea forcing a trial. If the judge accepts, he would likely serve only 11 months in a mininum security federal prison camp.

“With respect to the tax offense, Mr. Wedelstedt conceded that between 1997 and 1999 he gave some employees cash bonuses in which those employees did not pay their own taxes on," Asbill noted. "During each of those three years, the average tax loss to government was $40,000 a year. During that same time, Eddie and his company overpaid their taxes by many hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not low millions of dollars.”

Asbill continued, “Eddie only owns three adult stores in the North District of Texas and agreed to forfeit those three stores and those properties. ... He also agreed to cancel the leases in several other stores he has, and agreed to stop servicing several other stores that he did not lease or own during the period of his incarceration and during the one year of his supervised release.

Of the 23-count indictment, 18 of those counts referred to interstate transportation of obscene material by common carrier; interstate transportation of obscene material for purpose of sale or distribution; engaging in the business of selling or transferring obscene matter; and aiding and abetting those three alleged acts.

The final two counts of the indictment were RICO forfeiture, which asked for the forfeiture of millions in cash, all stock and other interests that Wedelstedt and Goalie have in 53 listed companies, 10 parcels of land and an airplane.

Umm...are we going to apologize for people who don't conduct their businesses legitimately? You want to be legitimate, you obey the law, and don't cry 'censorship' because you got busted for something else. Adult businesses that don't operate on the up-and-up effectively damage the whole notion of free expression. I thought that was logical, but I guess not.

[Der Blaue Engel]

98. I'm really tired, so I may be missing it, but

what illegitimate business practices are you referring to? The only thing I see that isn't about the arbitrary term obscenity is the tax issue:

“With respect to the tax offense, Mr. Wedelstedt conceded that between 1997 and 1999 he gave some employees cash bonuses in which those employees did not pay their own taxes on," Asbill noted. "During each of those three years, the average tax loss to government was $40,000 a year. During that same time, Eddie and his company overpaid their taxes by many hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not low millions of dollars.”

In light of the overpayment of taxes at the same time, it sounds like an excuse to prosecute to me, when the real issue is the obscenity.

[Rich Hunt]

104. well...

I don't feel too sorry for people who don't pay their taxes.

If you want a strong case, you better be clean in other areas.

This individual doesn't make a good first-amendment martyr, and that's that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. Ah, I see. The reason you "don't fell sorry" is the taxes.

WHO THE NETHERWORLD DO YOU THINK YOU'RE FOOLING?

[mongo]

125. The wouldn't have nailed him on the tax charge

From the original article:

“With respect to the tax offense, Mr. Wedelstedt conceded that between 1997 and 1999 he gave some employees cash bonuses in which those employees did not pay their own taxes on," Asbill noted. "During each of those three years, the average tax loss to government was $40,000 a year. During that same time, Eddie and his company overpaid their taxes by many hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not low millions of dollars.”

So with the overpayment that would have been a wash. But hey, if you can't get him for ultimately overpaying his taxes, go after him under the obscenity laws.

[Qibing Zero]

97. Repressing sexuality has the opposite effect of what they're going for.

The opposite effect!

The reason why mainstream porn is so degrading (to everyone) in the first place is in large part due to this kind of sexual repression. I mean, fuck, have you ever seen the kind of stuff the japanese put out?! To each his own, but... damn.

The war on drugs has the opposite effect they want it to have as well. Are we going to make pornography a black market business too? How much longer will we have to deal with "If it's against the law, it won't exist, and if we say 'don't do it', people won't!" stupidity? You'd think the religious right would learn these simple, simple things - what with raising the number of kids they always seem to have and all.



And all of this is basically playing devil's advocate, not even mentioning the REAL argument against this kind of bullshit.

[rucky]

114. If everybody were as repressed as they are, then they'd be normal. nt

[Skittles]

100. what bush inc does offends me more than any porn I have ever seen

that is a FACT

[WinkyDink]

103. I don't understand.

Why him? I'm not "for" pornography, but talk about going after a (legal) grain of sand!

[ComerPerro]

105. Dude, you're a pornographer?

[mongo]

126. MY wife and I own and operate

a lingerie and erotic boutique -- that sells movies, magazines and toys in our back room.

[ComerPerro]

106. Where is the conservative outrage, I wonder

Its the big government, cushing the small business, going after the private citizen and taking his assets...

Its just what we've been saying those evil socialists and liberals would do!!!!

Oh wait...

[Deja Q]

108. And you'd think they'd simply act like normal customers instead...

[rucky]

113. Now they're trying to take away our Porn! Well, they can pry it from my

cold, dead - er - nevermind.

[Maru Kitteh]

118. Well at least he wasn't looting, right?

Because that would be really wrong, wouldn't it?

[Sugar Smack]

120. This worries me because it's one of the first indications

of the "morality" of the mindset who want to charge this guy. This is the rule of supply/demand being snuffed out by authorities; this is the 1st amendment being snuffed by "decency". Hah. Most pornography is left up to interpretation and enjoyed by healthy people as long as it's not tangled into illegal and criminal and cruel acts. It's sad that this guy has to shut down 3 of his stores when there are actual horrific things going on in the world- Our sadistic and stupid government as the choreographers of an illegal bloodbath overseas as one example.