Kerry knew at the time that the election was stolen & I know this because

[nodehopper]

right after the election I was compiling a resource list of electoral fraud to pass on to Kerry and his attorneys (not, like, of my own initiative but because someone very, very close to him personally specifically requested it)--I don't know if anyone remembers that, but a lot of people on DU were very helpful in that project--and I was told at the time that, at least, THK knew for sure it had been stolen and had a team of lawyers working on it around the clock and was actively involved in supervising it, but that they did not turn up the sort of smoking gun they needed at the time, all evidence (and there was plenty of it) was circumstantial.

Which makes me wonder why he is admitting it in public now--because it does not matter anymore, and he doesn't run the risk of trying to actively fight for something he couldn't prove or whether it's the opposite, and he feels that the tide has turned against Bush so much and the public is becoming aware of the corruption of this administration to the extent that now circumstantial evidence would be enough in the court of public opinion to really get a momentum behind electoral reform and an inquiry into black box voting, if not an actual recount.

[Punkingal]

1. I wasn't helping, but I remember the project...

that is why I was kinda surprised at all the threads today.

[nodehopper]

4. I guess he hasn't admitted it on record before

But he knew before. It wasn't like he came into new knowledge and now he is talking about it. So I wonder why he admitted it now.

[Punkingal]

9. It can't hurt to pile on Bush at this time...

The really big news in the latest polls is the integrity question, and people no longer believe Bush has any. It isn't such a giant step from there to begin to question if he would steal an election. (I am talking about people other than DUers, who have always known he would steal, and did, an election. Twice)

[nodehopper]

18. yeah, that's what I am thinking/hoping, too!

[blm]

10. Because of 2006, and because back then the media was still selling Bush as

Honest Abe, the strong leader.

Only now, after Katrina opened eyes and ears around the country, will any information about WH crimes get any traction at all.

[ClassWarrior]

17. I think part of it is because Mark Crispin Miller asked him last week.

And Kerry apparently answered him quite frankly.

NGU.

[nodehopper]

21. I wonder if he's been asked before, on record, this question

does anyone remember? Would anyone have done that? Greg Palast? Anyone>

[FreedomAngel82]

25. I remember on BradBlog

someone posted that one of Kerry's daughters was threatned. So maybe they were getting threats. Apparently there was also some sort of gentleman's agreement not to talk about it. We all know what happens to people who go up against Bush. Look at David Kay and Bush's old girlfriend.

[TayTay]

2. With all due respect, I don't think he came forward in this.

I think Mark Crispin Miller asked him about it. I believe Mr. Miller pushed this at the first opportunity he had to see Sen. Kerry. In the DU post Mr. Miller made, it seems that the Senator's sister read his book, agrees with his conclusions and invited him to a fundraiser that her brother the Senator would be at and introduced them.

Mr. Miller forced this issue to come out. (Kudos to him.) Sen. Kerry did not come forward with this.

Does anyone know if anything has come from the work THK did? Where is all that research? It sounds really interesting.

[nodehopper]

5. I don't think THK did publicized work

I know she had lawyers chasing leads and doing research. I am sure it is all compiled somewhere, but not for the general public. And also if you mean that you are interested in seeing the document I put together at the time I'd be happy to send it to you a link to it.

[sandnsea]

40. Yeah, but what about that walk?

Didn't you say he said the word fraud? Could you put that into complete context, maybe it'll help drill down into what he's saying? Perhaps the same thing he's always said, fraud happened but whether there is evidence to prove there were enough votes to overturn the election is another thing entirely.

I'll email too, and try and get some direction.

[TayTay]

46. Mr. Miller asked Sen. Kerry about this at a function.

Sen. Kerry did not call a press conference and announce this. It was a private conversation. Miller says this is what Kerry said. Sen. Kerry may well have a different recollection of the conversation. I gues we should ask Peggy Kerry, she was third party to the conversation.

I saw John Kerry Sunday in Boston when he spoke at and walked in a Civil Rights march to commemorate the Selma March of 1965. Sen. Kerry specifically, in public and live on local tv, talked about fraud in the last election. He mentioned it casually, as though all at the gathering knew there was fraud. He was trying to get people to show up for marches, like the one he was in, specifically to get the issue out into the public debate. It was my impression that he believed that this was the only way the fraud could be stopped.

Again, this was shown on local Boston TV live. There were reporters from every Boston channel there. It was recorded.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

3. If Kerry's statement will help force an inquiry and voting protections,

I do not care what his motive is now. I wish he had fought for the election at the time. He needs to continue to speak out - he may be ridiculed by the Repuke criminal enterprise, but he will get more media coverage than unknowns or academics. He needs to bring the facts to the attention of the American people. Maybe someday Diebold will be charged with fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud.

[i miss america]

7. Absolutely! And it's time he made good on his campaign promise

and theme song, "No Retreat, No Surrender"

[nodehopper]

14. with electoral reform better late than never

we got badly screwed in 2004 and all the preliminary rallying about campaigning for 2008 (and 2006) is meaningless without electoral reform and ensuring a paper trail and de-Diebolding the voting process, because as long as we have electonic voting we are not going to have elections meaningful in any way in this country.

[i miss america]

48. Ain't it the truth!

:toast:

[Catamount]

6. Thanks for this info......

Just yesterday I was wondering once again if JK knew about the theft, so your article is very timely.
Only I wasn't aware that John has spoken about this publicly.
When and where did he do this?

[nodehopper]

8. oh, what I was saying wasn't from the article, it was personal knowledge

through people I know who are very close to JK. I brought it up apropos the statement by Mark Crispin Miller that's all over this board today that Kerry told him in conversaion that he knew the election was stolen. Since MCM is a journalist, Kerry was going on record in saying this.

[Catamount]

15. Yeah I just found the threads, thanks!

Better late than never--I suppose

[porphyrian]

11. I think the timing is curious...

...and I wonder if it could be related to the Special Prosecutor's investigation...

[FreedomAngel82]

27. I don't think so

I don't think so with Fitzgerald. I think the timing is interesting after recent events with the democrats and Reid closing the Senate and all this other stuff happening. Even now Ford junior and Feinstein are coming out saying they regret their votes so I do believe something is going on now with the democrats. It's very curious. I think with Fitzgerald he's just working on the CIA case and that all leads to war.

[Land Shark]

12. What link are people referring to?

[nodehopper]

16. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5264884

or look at any other topic on GD right now about Mark Crispin Miller

[mod mom]

20. yep here is a link to Democracy Now!

Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 10:04 AM by Junkdrawer

Mark Crispin Miller on DemocracyNow just stated that Kerry said to him personally that he, Kerry, believes the election in 2004 was stolen. He also said that Kerry is trying to talk to other senators to move the issue front and center. Sen. Dodd is among those opposing efforts.
Transcript later:
http://www.democracynow.org

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Wow!

With Reid he said that it's been a year (when he closed the Senate) and enough is enough. I'll have to go and watch that interview later this evening.

[NanceGreggs]

13. I think he's admitting it now ...

... for several reasons, which you have cited here, i.e. the tide has turned, the sheeple are beginning to realize that this administration is rife with corruption, etc.

But I think, IMHO, that there is a more compelling reason. With Bush's poll numbers plummeting (something which reflects on his entire party), the Democrats, by default, are on the rise with the public. This could mean taking the house back in 2006, and the presidency in 2008.

However, unless the Diebolds of the world are shown to be what they are, and unless vote fraud is investigated and dealt with NOW, all of the votes that will go the Dems' way in the next elections will be for naught.

Hopefully, Kerry (and the rest of our dear elected Dems) will get this all-important ball rolling on this -- before it's too late. All the votes in the world don't matter, if the people COUNTING those votes are corrupt.

[Catamount]

19. You are so right!

[NanceGreggs]

26. My husband made a sound observation ...

... recently when we were discussing the 2000 and 2004 elections. He said that the genius of Bush's campaign team was NOT that they'd garnered him enough votes to win (which they didn't). Their genius was that they'd gotten him ENOUGH votes to come close to Kerry's numbers -- close enough so that the fraud wouldn't be glaringly obvious.

I believe that's true. Had Kerry's lead been overwhelming, the skewing of the end count by Diebold (and other black box voting organizations) would have been TOO GLARINGLY APPARENT. The genius wasn't in winning; it was just in getting close enough to pull off what they did.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. And the media being on their side

They made it appear as though the whole country loved Bush and only a few minority people were for Kerry and all that when in reality it's reverse.

[nodehopper]

34. yeah, that's exactly what my boyfriend just said.

that Diebold fraud is only possible when it is as close as 2004 election was. Hopefully bringning the issue of electoral fraud to the public's attention will further undermine their faith in the integrity (ha!) of this administration and hopefully the numbers in the next election will be so dramatic that Diebold theft won't be possible.

[donkeyotay]

37. They just have to make it plausible. What will 2006's plausible story be?

[nodehopper]

23. eXACTLY!

[FreedomAngel82]

22. Maybe to get rid of bbv?

:shrug: I remember reading a good while back Kerry was going to give up on the election fraud ordeal and a lot of people Emailed him etc. and someone from the 2004 election forum said they sent Kerry tons of evidence of proof to his lawyers and stuff and they stayed on and have a court date for August 2006. Is that still on? I remember back in May (I believe it was) Teresa was talking about how the election was stolen. I'm reading now Al Franken's "The Truth With Jokes" book and in the first page of the book (after the forward of course) he starts talking about the election. He mentions at 3:43pm est (he states he and his radio team were in Boston) Kerry was winning by the exit polls in a landslide by all of his contacts. Maybe something is happening and going on to prove it. Kerry is a prosecutor and he knows just like everyone else that to prove a case you have to have proof of it. Maybe something has come up. :shrug: The democrats seem to all have found their spines and courage and all unified (the main public one's at least) so maybe there's a plan or something.

[BuyingThyme]

24. Has he admitted it "in public"?

[nodehopper]

31. saying it to Marc Crispin Millier, a journalist, is saying it on record.

[BuyingThyme]

35. Perhaps, but I don't think Kerry has the guts to say it "in public."

In fact, I know that to be the case because it seems that such a thing might be important to this country.

[bluedonkey]

30. What does it matter now?

We all knew both elections were stolen.We still got the shit stomper for president.La Di Da,Kerry admits he knew,he still walked away without a fight.Will he pass this on to the PROSECUTER? Can we get our real President back now?
What does it take to get these people out of the WH?

[nodehopper]

32. the tide is turning against Bush

and American public is becoming aware of the corruption of this administraiton, adn if there was ever a prime moment to cast doubts on the integrity of the electoral process and the need for electoral reform, it's on this wave, the Fitzmas, etc. If the public believes that the gov't compromised national security and outed a CIA agent and lied to go to war, they can now believe that the election was stolen. And it's important to address now, before 2006 elections.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Exactly

More people are willing to listen to election fraud. I betcha if a few months ago Kerry and anybody else started talking about election fraud they would've been laughed at and called a consperiacy theorists. People are losing their faith in Bush with the CIA leak case. If they were involved in this election fraud isn't so far off. Wasn't there a poll done with this issue? I think I remember one being done but I'm not sure.

[TayTay]

42. Teresa Heinz Kerry spoke about this in April.

She was roundly ridiculed as being in la-laland. There were a great many credible people who have brought this up since last November, but the media refuses to take it up. If it's not happening on the talk shows and in the papers, it's hard to grow the type of popular outrage in the general population that would lead to change.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. It does matter

It matters because we can start fighting the BBV voting and getting rid of it. We can all encourage Kerry and other democrats to fight for security in our elections. Out of all the democracies out there ours is the only one who uses "voting" machines. You don't know if he's walked away. Nobody knows that except him.

[bluedonkey]

44. He walked away

it was televised.

[H2O Man]

38. Sure.

Before the election, I told a friend that Kerry had the votes to win. I'm pretty good at the math needed to predict elections accurately. There was no question in my mind that Kerry had it. My friend said she was convinced that despite the intentions of the citizens, the election would be stolen.

I know that in the months before the election, a number of strange things happened. In one case, people from a headquarters in a Pennsylvania community called me to report their offices had been broken into. I called and got through to the Kerry election HQ for PA; I spoke to the gentleman in charge of Kerry operations in PA. He had me do a 3-way phone call, while he listened to the details .... money left out in the open wasn't touched, but their computer hard drives were taken. This gentleman told me that similar ugly things were happening in ten key states.

I e-mailed a few of the "big name" journalists that I was mildly familiar with. None considered it worth reporting. Maybe it was just me and the other people at the grass roots level that found it eerily similar to the break-ins we remembered from the late 1960s and early '70s. Perhaps those very important journalists don't realize that even a "third rate burglary" can have national consequences.

[kansasblue]

39. Two quick points....

saying he thought the election was 'stolen' can leave lots of wiggle room:

stolen as in Bush's team deceived people about Kerry's record, or something like that. What I'd like to hear the words 'election fraud' in the same sentence as 'stolen'.

Second... this should not be some much about 2004, but about 2006. Not much you can do after each state certifies the results and then the Senate and House do the same. The issue is: if it was stolen then what about 2006 and 2008. Focus on the future.

[garybeck]

41. you can't find the smoking gun if you don't look for it

if they would have asked for a recount in ohio they would have found it.

they were part of the problem. I don't buy it at all, that he knew it was stolen. If he did, he obviously didn't care enough to do something about it.

[TayTay]

43. They did ask for a recount.

Blackwell fixed it. That was part of the problem. The machines were allowed to be 'monitored' by a rep of the manufacturer and were re-calibrated before the recount. It was another fix.

The problem is wide, deep and institutional. It is going to take years to get it fixed. And it won't be done without broad popular support. (DU support is nice, but it's preaching to the converted.)

[garybeck]

45. NO. They did not.

the recount was requested by the Green Party and the Libertarian Party.

Kerry had NOTHING to do with it. In fact they fought against it.

[nodehopper]

49. He did know. I suppose they thought

the smoking gun they needed at the time was, like, a whistleblower, or evidence that was not circumstantial. And I know they did look. I don't know why they didn't ask for a recount in Ohio, but I do know that they looked, and not in a public-gesture way, but, rather, on their own.

[bluedonkey]

47. Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Senator_Kerry_rebuffs_claim_he_said_1104.html