Torture like Speed Limits

[Protagoras]

Think about human nature. What happens when you are on the highway and see a 55mph sigh? That's the "limit"...is that how fast people drive? Nope, hardly ever. Heck in my city we can have fog and an inch of water and ice on the road and I still see a bunch of people going 70mph. But the "Law" says 55mph...so why would everyone ignore it? Because it isn't "really" enforced. And as a consequence peope have become desensitized to it. Moveover they look around and think everyone else is going faster, so why shouldn't they? It's a nice twofold system.

First someone goes 3mph over...and they notice that nothing happens. After a few days of this they're going 5mph. I know lots who have a rule of thumb that they are essentially immune on the freeway as long as they stay 9mph OVER the speed limit. Others simply don't care at all and whip by at 80 or 85mph, passing on the right while chatting on their cell phone. You want to cut things down for a school zone you post 20mph, with a children sign and install road bumps and it's still a struggle to keep people slowed down to a point where it's slow enough for safety.

This isn't something a few people do. This is something Many or even MOST people do.

And they got there because of the perception that exceeding things just a little bit wasn't a big deal, and because other people were doing it.

Torture is just like that. We set a limit and in so doing the policy makers knew...that much like the speed limit...people would probably exceed it. Funny thing about that. If you know people are going to go 60mph you probably set the Limit at 50 or 55...and Torture is a lot like that. You know its going to happen. But you set the bar VERY HIGH so that violations don't get too out of hand.

But in this case we've changed something fundamental. We've taken the Speed Limit on torture and moved it from school zone speed (20mph?) to Freeway speed 55mph...so instead of having violations that are of the 9mph kind (not safe or acceptable...but still much lower) we now have the norm being above what was the violation...and the violations being nearly unimaginable. We now have 65-85mph violations of human rights...and WE...US...AMERICANS are knowingly doing it. Not hidden dark rogues breaking the law...but Contract employees and government agents who think they're actually within ACCEPTABLE limits.

And lets be clear...Torture isn't some generic word that simply means some bad things for bad people.

Torture often, even usually occurs to innocents. Around the world it's used to create FEAR...but that fear is most effective when applied randomly, or to those near the target. The target themselves is also often random or innocent because if it's actually known what they are doing (confirmed guilt?) then torture isn't necessary. And without going into the obvious argument that torture isn't necessary anyway...it's also important to be open and honest about what Torture really means and becomes when you set it's limit at 55mph and above.

Sure you have Stress positions...but ya know that's like the little deer crossing sign for torturers..even good ol American Torturers.

What else have we got?

Beating (rubber hoses anyone?) Breaking of bones, teeth, etc.
Burning (cigarettes to branding irons)
Electrocution (can we imagine where the electrodes are applied?)
Forced Feedings (no this isn't a service to the hungry)
Heat/Cold Exposure
Humiliation
Psychological Torture
Injection of Drugs
Rape (an old favorite)
Torture/Rape of relatives/children/wives/parents
Oh and a classic= Murder of the victim to cover it all up at the end.

This is what Torture means. And just like pushing the speed up a little bit each time the cap is raised...that's what we're engaging in. And the individuals who do it are far more like the lemmings out there on the road beside you than you could ever imagine.

Remember, every time you hear that someone believed they had to use Torture Methods to get ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT INFORMATION...there isn't really a cap to that thinking. If the issue is that critical..if the information is that absolutely necessary...then what if the beating with the hose doesn't work? Do you stop and say..."oh darn well, we beat him with the hose but he didn't break so I guess we'll give up."

Or do you say.."ok time to move up to the testicle clamps."?

Still not sure? "Ok bring in his wife and we'll work her over in front of him"...she's innocent? well she shouldn't be married to him and the information is so important it's necessary to sacrifice an innocent or two.

Sacrificed an innocent or two and still feel like there is more to learn? Best to let the populous know they all better come forward of they might be next (grab a few people at random). And once you've gone to 80mph with a few people...it's easier to rinse and repeat...because you've become a bit desensitized to the blood and the crying.

And so we quickly...yes...QUICKLY begin to systematically apply the most Fundamental and personal form of TERRORISM. The Most grotesque form of self justified abominations. And it all started with a little adjustment. A small slope that was sorta slippery but which for some reason people have been sliding down for the whole of human history.

And that's why the world came together and say "No"...it's too much, too dangerous...and too contaminating to the human psyche...both for those victimized and those who engage in the torture. It changes our perceptions...and we become like those people who are used to flying down the road at 80mph...it becomes normal, comfortable, and natural...and we can barely remember what life was like when we only drove 20mph...and can scarcely imagine a return to that cumbersome speed.

This is what I think about when I see Chris Matthews refer to Dershowitz creating a justification for torture. I wonder if Chris even understands the scope of what he's babbling about. I wonder if Dershowitz has half the personal reflection it would take to ask himself if he were the one accussed if he'd accept his wife being raped in front of him by government agents on the 'Possibility" that he has some KEY information. I suspect they do not. Because I believe that if they did, they could not say what they do.

[savemefromdumbya]

1. now rumsfeld has a reason

all you need is a reason - the bad terorists - to put you foot on the torture accelerator

[kenny blankenship]

2. Yep, that's why the ban on torture was so absolute

some torture always leads to more and worse torture. What if you don't get the information you want? You've already crossed the torture threshhold. You keep going. "Oh but we wouldn't..." Bullshit. Torturers ALWAYS keep going.
And there's also the consideration that torture only works well if applied to many people. People will say anything under torture to get it to stop. The only way to know if they're telling you the truth is torture other people who might know about the same information--cast a wide net. When the babbling confessions begin to synchronize between torture subjects only then is the torturer satisfied he has the truth. It's the slipperiest slope in war aside from war itself.

[Protagoras]

3. Yep. People tend to live UP to the limit

regardless of what it is. I'd be interested to hear from people who work in various areas about where force and restraint are used...and reflect on what they've seen in terms of what's acceptable based on "Rules".

And oddly all of this was written today before I saw this headline:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_torture

Cheney Pushes Senate for CIA Exemption:

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney made an unusual personal appeal to Republican senators this week to allow CIA exemptions to a proposed ban on the torture of terror suspects in U.S. custody, according to participants in a closed-door session."

This man is foul beyond words.