BREAKING: Kerry now believes the election was stolen. - Mark C. Miller

[Junkdrawer]

Mark Crispin Miller on DemocracyNow just stated that Kerry said to him personally that he, Kerry, believes the election in 2004 was stolen. He also said that Kerry is trying to talk to other senators to move the issue front and center. Sen. Dodd is among those opposing efforts.

Transcript later:

http://www.democracynow.org

On Edit: I heard the report as I was rushing out the door for work. I'm 90% sure Miller said Sen. Dodd - the rest I'm 100% sure about.

[hippiechick]

1. A year late, Senator ...

Ahem.

[soothsayer]

4. No kidding! yeesh

[Dinger]

10. Ditto (nt)

[jsamuel]

25. A year late to fix elections in 2006? I think not!!!

Get over 2004 and think about 2006!

[corkhead]

180. maybe this is part of the strategy for fixing things before '06?

this might bring the unthinkable into the forefront. The average corporate news consumer I know is unable to even imagine the possibility that the credibility of our voting system is in question. Before 2000, that was something I took for granted. I think the notion of there being stolen elections is starting to float into public consciousness, not something reserved for those perceived to be the tin foil hat wearers

[mzmolly]

106. In February of 05 Kerry put forth the CAVA, see my thread in GD.

Kerry addressed EVERY concern, but he did not cry "the election was stolen!!!"

Proof takes time, but - fixing the problem is another matter.

[Pachamama]

167. Oh good Mr. Kerry...now you can use the $17 Million that I & others helped

you raise for "legal action"....

A year late I'd say....I'll never forget coming back from Ohio that day, landing into SFO still not knowing the results and finding out Kerry had conceded...

"Why?" is all I could keep asking myself.....

I figured they threatened his family...there was no other explanation in my mind other than he didn't want the truth...

Guess he thinks its safe to now speak out, now that others are? :shrug:

[ginnyinWI]

194. I can never understand where all of this anger comes from

Are we not all Democrats? Do we not all want the same things? I just don't get it.

[Pachamama]

225. I'm not angry, I'm disappointed & questioning of the response....

And to answer your question of "are we not all Democrats?": No, actually we aren't. I was a registered Republican up until several years back, then I was a registered Independent (until I saw what that party stood for) and now I'm a "Decline to state party". I would describe myself as a fiscal conservative who is socially progressive and doesn't like big government who intrudes in my private life, and I tend to have some Libertarian leanings, but also some socialistic ones when it comes to taking care of those less fortunate in our community and society. I'm concerned about environmental issues and would say I even lean towards the Green Party....The bottom line: I am an American...I believe in the Constitution and all its amendments, including the 2nd amendment and think the Dems should stop being seen as the enemy of the NRA. I love Mother Earth, "Pachamama" and believe we should respect her more and take better care of her.

We don't necessarily want all the same things, but in general, I'd say we do want most of the same things. We want our children and future generations to have clean air to breathe and clean water to drink and to be able to have the democratic ideals and freedoms that our Nation has stood for.

I met Kerry on several occasions and haven't had the chance to see him since Nov. 1st in Cleveland where I last spoke to him the night before the election. I was a big donor to him and had lengthy conversations about what this election was about, including looking him in the eye and having him tell me that this election was about the future of my Pachababies. We smiled at eachother and said Namaste to one another.

Like I said, I'd be willing to give the guy a chance, but there are some serious questions I have for him of why he did what he did. He let a lot of us down. I am a pretty good judge of character and I felt he was a good person, still do, but something wasn't right and still isn't. Like I said, I think his family may have been threatened....

[FreedomAngel82]

230. With being threatned

I remember someone on BradBlog posted that one of Kerry's daughters was getting threats. And nobody knows except Kerry, people working with him and his family if he's still working on election fraud or not. I think it's unfair to say he didn't care about the issue if you don't know for sure. For a long time he was silent on the issue but than Teresa started talking first back in May and I knew she knew. Everyone knows how Teresa is her own independent person so maybe she's speaking out instead of Kerry because they would just ignore Kerry and stuff and smear him.

[Pachamama]

244. Someday, we will all know the truth...that much I believe....

Teresa will speak someday, even if John doesn't....

:hi:

[ray of light]

265. There are STILL three court cases in Ohio. So your donation is being used

I was there too and I know that he was told that he lost. Secondly, we were at war and had a battle in fallujah and imagine the harm that would have caused to the troops over there...to have another 'undecided' election.

Thank God that Kerry cared about the troops and their saftey unlike Bush who purposely used the troops and the escalation of the war to guard his own political carrreer. Who would I rather have? Bush's actions or Kerry's conceeding while MY CHILD was entring falujah? I pick Kerry's.

192. kind of late n/t

[leftchick]

2. Sen. Dodd?

Does he have an interest in the voting machine companies? :grr:

[Craig3410]

3. And it took him this long?

It really, really, REALLY would have helped if he'd said this 367 days earlier.

[Junkdrawer]

7. I have my problems with him quitting. Mark Miller has his problems...

But, given where we sit, I'll take all the allies I can get.

[QC]

76. No!!!!! Our allies must be 100% pure!

I will not support anyone who doesn't please me in every possible way!

[Toots]

91. Your sarcasm just displayed an important difference between Freepers and

Democrats. Issues are very important to us. They could give a shit as long as their side wins. Some here want to adapt the Freeper mentality of win no matter what the candidate thinks as long as they have a D after their name. While I don't feel the candidate has to feel exactly like me on some issues there are some that are absolute. The right to organize being one of those issues. If a Democrat is unfriendly to Labor I will not ever vote for them no matter what. Or support for unprovoked war or as Bush* calls it Preemptive war. It is wrong wrong wrong and I will support no one who believes in it...

[QC]

153. If you can't win, you can't change anything.

I quite agree that some issues are too important to compromise, but many here seem to forget that if we become a permanent minority, we will have no power even to stop the corporate supremacists, much less implement our own ideas, no matter how wonderfully pure we are.

If a few more senators had D's after their names, Bill Frist would not be one of the most powerful men in America. If a few more reps had D's after their names, Tom DeLay would just be a crackpot congressman from Sugar Land, Texas.

There is much to be said for winning.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

199. Say it again!!! If you can't win, you can't change anything.

I have issues, we all have issues, but I will ALWAYS vote for Candidate Conservative (D) before I vote for Candidate Moderate (R). I will ALWAYS add to the D bloc and then urge other Ds to put pressure on their more conservative colleagues. If the R candidate is such a good moderate, let him/her switch to D. Otherwise he/she is just a stinkin' R.

[Longhorn]

232. I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat.

I wasn't always this way but I've seen too many moderates stand with the right wing so what difference does it make if they're moderates? We still lose on key issues.

[FreedomAngel82]

234. Exactly

There could've been many different reasons. Only Kerry and people around him who he's confidened in and/or works with knows why for sure. He is talking about it now and feels safe talking about it. So now we can move forward and make changes. Getting angry and ignoring what he says doesn't do anybody any good. Kerry and Dodd both have senatorial powers and with that comes possibilities of getting things done. If we're going to take back the House and Senate and ever have faith in our elections again like we used to be able to we need all the help we can get.

[seabeyond]

100. he COULDNT> i am thrilled to hear he is saying it

his wife said it. so it was put out. edwards implied. and kerry and edwards went to lawsuit. but they had to play this out. i am thrilled thrilled he feels he can now. wAS GETTING WORRIED. BUT NOW THERE ARE BOOKS FOR SUPPORT, THERE is a govt study by non partisan for support. now he can come out and say it. couldnt before. COULDNT. i am thrilled by this news. and perfect. and i am going to assume that is what he has been doing, without us seeing. good good good

[mzmolly]

139. It didn't take him this long, he started work on legislation almost

immediately.

Were he to thump his chest and yell, we'd not get things changed for the future.

See my thread in GD, and help out.

[sepia_steel]

200. Maybe you can talk some sense into those on my thread who

believe that Kerry has done absolutely nothing. I remember several threads about variosu voting issues he was involved in, and even then all they could do was scream for Kerry blood.

[FreedomAngel82]

239. Yes

Boxer and Clinton and Kerry started an election reform group. I think Boxer and Clinton began it and Kerry signed on to help. I trust Boxer more than anybody and Clinton began working on election reform back in 2000. I remember with the Ohio challenge in the Senate Clinton told about that and said people ignored her. Maybe now there can finally be something done.

[mzmolly]

245. Direct them to my thread.

I wish I had time today, but I'm on my way outta' da' house.

:hi:

[MH1]

207. How do you know it would have *really* helped?

How do you know it wouldn't have hurt?

[Punkingal]

5. Why would Dodd oppose efforts to talk about it???

I suppose he is afraid they will be regarded as nuts, instead of standing up for democracy.

[Mass]

18. Democrats do not want to make that an issue concerning Kerry

They already asked him not to be in the Senate on Jan 5th (?) so that Boxer's vote would not look like a vote to claim Bush's victory.

So there should be no surprise. Kerry, like Gore, has been following the wishes of the Democratic Leadership on this issue. His deficit in OH was too large to really contest victory. It is the only difference with Gore.

[Fly by night]

71. Do a search for "Time for Change"'s recent thread on Cuyahoga CO, OH...

... in the "Election Reform" forum. TfC's analysis indicated that enough votes were tampered with in Cleveland, OH alone to make up over 90% of Kerry's apparent deficit in Ohio.

Kerry did not lose Ohio, as at least a half dozen in-depth analyses have indicated (including, most importantly, the Conyers report.) He likely also did not lose New Mexico, Iowa, Nevada and Florida. His margins of victory (or defeat) in other states were likely also influenced improperly by the same tactics that lost him the five key battleground states. Anyone who has been following this issue for the past year would already know this.

I do agree that Kerry should not have conceded. Part of the problem with that concession was taking recommendations from "advisors" who now work for Republican firms and from some Ohio Democrats, who appear to be true DINOs. But it is never too late to challenge the legitimacy of Bush's (s)election.

There is no statute of limitations on the rape and murder of democracy. And treason is a capital offense. Speak up, John Kerry, and we'll go find some heavy-duty ropes. I imagine there are a few stout hanging trees left in Columbus, OH and Washington, DC.

[Fly by night]

95. Reposted this message below, where it should have been to begin with.

See my post #125 below.

And Mass, my comment about anti-Kerry naysayers was meant mainly for Walt Starr's comments on this thread, but there are more than a few who are weighing in with "sour grapes" messages on this thread.

None of us should ever "get over" stolen elections. No way, no how.

[Mass]

114. I dont disagree with you, I was stating my opinion about what

the Democratic Leadership was thinking, nothing else (and I think that Kerry won, this is not the point).

[And I must have expressed myself very poorly if I sound like an anti-Kerry naysayer. It was not my goal, on the contrary.

[Pachamama]

193. I'll never "get over" the fact that I believe this election was stolen...

...but I haven't been able to get over Kerry conceding so quickly and not fighting it harder either. I believe, and still do, that his family was threatened. I was disgusted and upset about an election that I firsthand witnessed in Ohio and believe was unclean (on purpose) and that the election was not won by Mr. Bush. This said, I'm still not at peace with Kerry's decision to concede so quickly. Now, if the "truth" and proof of the election can be shown and the Senator can show some courage to speak out for what is right, sure, I'd forgive him. But at this point, I'm not getting my hopes up. I helped him raise money for his "legal action fund" and still have friends feeling screwed on the money they were asked to donate to it. He can make up for it by using that money as it was intended....the verdict is still out, eh?

[ginnyinWI]

197. when he conceded, I was angry too--for about 15 minutes.

Then I thought about it, and decided that if I were able to trust him with the presidency of this nation, I should be able to trust that he knew what he was doing regarding this decision. A year later, I still feel the same way. He was right to do what he did when he did it.

[mod mom]

214. Exactly correct, my friend, KERRY WON OHIO! I am from Columbus OH,

so convinced was I that the election was stolen that I closed my business of 17+ years to investigate and push the agenda of election reform. I too took off my K/E bumper sticker on Nov 3rd when he conceded, but I never gave up hope that the truth would come out.

We investigated and proved our premise to the most honorable John Conyers and the House Judiciary Democratic Staff legal team. They are the gate keepers of this information JUST AS SEN KERRY IS THE GATEKEEPER TO THE PROOF ON BCCI! If we truly want to rid our country of this evil cancer tht we call BFEE, we must not wait but back this effort at exposing the truth!

[renate]

259. wow--THANK YOU

You closed your business to work on election reform?????
I'm speechless:
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[Stand and Fight]

101. January 6, 2005... I will never forget that date. Ever. n/t

[seabeyond]

103. is dodd dlc? i have my own theory. seeing clintons.... plural

gov richardson adn what he did in new mexico. hillarys senate in ny. it is something i have been thinking about here.

[Helga Scow Stern]

181. Yes, I know what you mean.

Something stinks.

[helderheid]

6. This is great news! Thanks and recommended!

[Walt Starr]

8. It's too late. Because Kerry said nothing in the aftermath

it's now been relegated to the "tinfoilhat conspiracy theory" level.

Move on, Senator. Had you stood up a year ago, I'd fight tooth and nail with ya. Now, you're just weraring a tinfoilhat.

Kerry set the standard and there is no going back. As was the case in 2000, if the candidate is not fighting it tooth and nail on the ground as it happens, it means nothing.

[annabanana]

14. DSM used to be "tinfoil hat" territory too..

This is a good time to revisit old moldy republican "truisms", I think.

[Walt Starr]

15. DSM and election theft are two different things

Kerry conceded. End of story.

Had Kerry refused to ever conced, he would have moral grounding to quesiton the results now. It would not be relegated to "tinfoilhat nuttery", it would be a valid question.

Kerry chose his route, and I point the tinfoil hat of fate at the man for being so depserate for another go he'd pull this out now.

[atomic-fly]

85. I pulled off my Kerry sticker when he conceded.

I Live in VA and am afraid of the voting systems we have to use this year.
ACCU-VOTE = Diebold Election Systems, (marksense tabulator). u

ACCU-VOTE TSR6 = Diebold Election Systems, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

ACCU-VOTE TSX = Diebold Election Systems, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

AVC = Sequoia Voting Systems AVC Advantage, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

AVM-NP = Automatic Voting Machine, (mechanical) non-printer, non-removable selectors.

AVM-NS = Automatic Voting Machine, (mechanical) printer, non-removable selectors.

AVM-RS = Automatic Voting Machine, (mechanical) printer, removable selectors.

BALLOT NOW = Hart Intercivic, (marksense tabulator). u

EDGE = Sequoia Voting Systems AVC Edge, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

eSLATE = Hart Intercivic, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

IES = International Elections Systems Shoup (mechanical) non-printer.

INSIGHT = Sequoia Voting Systems, (marksense tabulator). u

iVOTRONIC = Election Systems and Software, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

M100 = Election Systems and Software, (marksense tabulator). u

OPTECH IIIPE = Sequoia Voting Systems, (marksense tabulator). u

PATRIOT DRE = Unilect Corporation, (direct recording electronic, DRE)

PATRIOT MS = Unilect Corporation (marksense tabulator). u

PBC-3 = Election Systems and Software, (punch card tabulator with ballot bag). u

PBC-IIID = Election Systems and Software, (punch card tabulator without ballot bag). u

PBC-2100 = Election Systems and Software, (punch card tabulator with ballot bag). u

RFS = R.F. Shoup, (mechanical) non-printer.

WINVOTE = Advanced Voting Solutions, (direct recording electronic, DRE).

WINSCAN = Advanced Voting Solutions, (marksense tabulator). u

u Number preceding slash indicates number of ballot tabulators; number following slash indicates number of Votomatic boo

[Pachamama]

175. I pulled mine off too that day....it would still be on if he had not done

so and conceded....

He quit that day and I was more devastated by that than anything...I held on to the hope for the while that Kerry had some strategy up his sleave that he was going to be pulling out by January....that never happened....

[ROH]

17. It's not too late...

if Kerry can provide the proof.

[Walt Starr]

20. If he wanted to provide proof, he should ahve never conceded

HE conceded. End of story. Questioning it now is an even bigger betrayal than his concession.

[lonestarnot]

29. Not if he has solid evidence to the contrary. LOL

[Walt Starr]

36. IT doesn't matter what the hell kind of evidence he has now!

All the Republicans need do is rel=play and replay and replay his concession speech and say two words, "Sour grapes."

He could prove that Karl Rove himself was on a computer changing votes as they came in, and it would change nothing and he'd only get swiftboated again.

Kerry is making the WRONG move at the WRONG time. He's trying to steal thunder from other Democratic Senators who are doing real work and making real progress.

If he has damning evidence that the election was stolen, he should shut his mouth and hand it over to another Senator who was never directly connected to his campaign and let them run with it. Opening up his big mouth now does more harm than good if he has real evidence.

The Republicans simply need to shoot the messenger on this. A wholly unconnected messenger with the same evidence would fuck up the Republicans. Kerry doing it is just more grist for the mill.

[lonestarnot]

39. Nope ... it's called educate the populus.

[Walt Starr]

43. Kerry is a sore loser. Kerry is a sore loser. Kerry is a sore loser

Sorry, nobody will be educated and Democrats will eb made the fools.

Hand the evidence to Reid and let him run with it, and everybody would be educated.

Spouting this crap without evidence is beyond stupid.

[lonestarnot]

47. You haven't even heard the evidence!

[Walt Starr]

50. Yeah, and there was evidence that * went AWOL and Dan Rather

was swiftboated.

It doesn't matter. If Kerry had evidence, he should have handed it over to somebody else.

Kerry has made poerhaps the biggest political strategic blunder of his career if he sdoes have evidence.

[lonestarnot]

53. No his biggest political blunder was going along with the war of lies.

[Walt Starr]

61. I think this one could prove to be bigger

because he may just be able to reinvigorate the neocons with this one.

[lonestarnot]

63. Invigorate them to what? Indicted theives and liars, serial killers?

[Walt Starr]

67. If Bush is able to turn the popularity thing around

then all of that goes away.

[lonestarnot]

80. And you think that solid evidence of an election theft is going to do that

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

83. No, I think that momentum over another Kerry Swiftboating

could.

[lonestarnot]

182. Nah Walt you give bushitler's dumb ass too much credit.

Rover is about to be chained and shackled, then there will be bushitler crying in his soup.

[KoKo]

148. Everyone had to wait until his poll numbers came down to pile on...and

expose the rot we know that's been going on since the 2000 Selection and for decades before.

We have everyone to blame for cowardice. Senate/House/Clinton/Carter/etc. They rolled over after 2000 and allowed 9/11 and Anthrax to cower them into submission. There have been bright lights who've carried the cause for truth...Conyers, Waxman and others who have cataloged it all. All those who worked on Voting Reform..Bev Harris, Andy and those who carried on when Bev imploded..like folks here who kept Selection 2004 investigations going day after day. Our Ohioans and others who wouldn't give up.

Well...you all know the drill. Let it all come out. Whether Kerry is the one to bring it up or not...let it come out. We don't have much time left before the country is so destroyed financially and otherwise to sit around stratigizing anymore. We need action. And, we out here can't prop these folks up anymore. The investigations have been done, we know what's gone wrong and it's time for the elected officials to start doing THEIR JOB! :shrug:

[Pachamama]

178. I still never understood why he never fought the false allegations of the

Swiftboaters and the book "Unfit for Command"....I kept thinking to myself if this man is to be Commander in Chief and he can't even stick up for his good name, how can he fight for this country? I just never understood that and I think that was a huge blunder on his part and left a lot of folks like me who really believed in him wondering, why? And then when he conceded (quickly I might add) I just kept thinking they must be threatening his family or he just doesn't want the Presidency...

Either way, it was another political blunder....

[Land Shark]

223. Election WINNERS never question victory, only losers can, and 100% of us

have a horse in the race because we all VOTED, and if we didn't vote, then their's no standing to TALK about it!

SO, ONLY "LOSERS" CAN EVER BRING UP THE ISSUE OF THE INTEGRITY OF DEMOCRACY.

Don't just stand there and take "sour grapes", fire back with reality.

[ROH]

34. It's not too late to set the facts straight bearing in mind...

forthcoming elections if he has the proof. Would you prefer him to just remain quiet about the subject now?

[Walt Starr]

40. Yes, I would prefer KERRY remain silent

Hand over the evidence to another Democrat who was not connected to his campaign and SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Kerry is the WRONG person at the WRONG time to pull real evidence of an election theft out.

Harry Reid would eb the RIGHT PERSON at the RIGHT TIME.

Dick Durbin would be the RIGHT person at the RIGHT TIME.

Kerry should shut up and walk away, but it';s too fucking late now and he has handed the Republicans the messenger to shoot on a silver platter.

He was STUPID to shoot his big mouth off.

[lonestarnot]

44. Truth is the ultimate defense!

[Walt Starr]

48. "Truth is the ultimate defense"

Tell that to Dan Rather.

[lonestarnot]

62. Dan is now enjoying life.

[Walt Starr]

78. And * was re-elected. n/t

[lonestarnot]

81. On a cheat!

[Walt Starr]

84. Sore loser

That's what this boils down to again.

Kerry is a sore loser.

If he wanted to talk about this a year later, he should have never conceded.

[Junkdrawer]

97. (psssst) Walt, I think your agenda is showing...

:evilgrin:

[Walt Starr]

203. Yeah, I try to be subtle about it

but when there's a strategic blunder....

Damn. If Kerry really beleives this way, why the hell did he have to tell somebody about it publically?

:eyes:

So many better ways to move forward, but no. Gotta scream it to the workld so that the Wolf Blitzers of the world get a free shot at running Kerry down.

Heck, it'd be 1000 times better coming from Dean! They already paint him as a wild eyed screamer! Can't paint him any worse than they already have!

[Stand and Fight]

123. Wow... Don't you think you're being kind of rude? Cool down... Sheesh.

Did you NOT read the OP before you starting opening your BIG MOUTH? It says that he is trying to get other Senators to carry the issue. It does NOT say that he is going to handle the issue. You really ought to be a little less rude when you're talking to others -- your words are far too harsh for a sensible discussion.

[Walt Starr]

213. No, I don't. I'm merely showing the talking points that WIL BE USED

and that will be the number 1 talking point.

Kerry needs to stay in the background on this one. Let others carry the ball. Let others push it. IF it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, he can be the agregiously wronged victim all that much better and can attack with righteous indignation all that much better.

all the hell he has to do is wait if he has evidence or use surrogates if he doesn't.

[Stand and Fight]

217. I agree with your role as Devil's Advocate.

I also agree that he should stay in the background on this, Walt, but at the same time I think there are clearly posts above where you are being most rude.

Beyond that, you are ABSOLUTELY right. John Kerry cannot lead this fight for the same reason he could not be the senotor to object to the counting of Ohio's electoral votes. This banner has to be taken up by those who have no vested direct interest in this matter. The time to fight was NOT a year ago. Period. There was no foundation for it. The GAO report has dramatically altered the stakes in our favor, and Democrats need to jump all over this and hold Republicans accountable. John Kerry cannot be at the head of the business though, but, as you said, if a time for righteous indignation would come he would be propelled to act.

[Walt Starr]

220. Yeah, I agree, I probably crossed a line there

I get frustrated when trying to make points about political strategy.

The biggest problem I see with politicians is the same as the biggest problem with military generals. They sometimes let their egos get in the way of what is the proper strategic course. Some times it seems like you have to get brash to make the point.

sorry about that.

[Stand and Fight]

229. I can tell you this, Walt...

I'd not have breached the subject if I didn't know you were the reasonable sort. Trust me -- there are many posts on here I'd like to speak out about, but I trusted that you were frustrated and I don't blame you. Politicians do have an annoying tendency to be overly diplomatic when more overt action would be more effective.

[lonestarnot]

185. Yeah and your ass should be sore too on a cheat!

[Walt Starr]

206. I'm, just trying to tell it like it is. This is how he will be painted

Hopefully, there's no recording of Kerry saying it.

[lonestarnot]

228. Now recording was offered by Crispin @ this juncture.

And who cares if they call him sore looser as long is the issue of a pulled election is examined and corrected.

[MelissaB]

75. Walt, is this not what was stated in the OP...that he was trying to get

other senators to bring it up?

[LittleClarkie]

236. Well, that's a refreshing opinion

Usually he's called a coward for NOT shooting his big mouth off. It's kind of nice to see someone arguing that was the LAST thing we needed. It's kind of a minority opinion though so be aware of that. I generally get called a Kerry apologist for expousing it.

[RSchewe]

177. Unfortuantely, he jumped ship before getting to the bottom of what...

happened. When he conceded, he practically endorsed the belief that there was nothing wrong with the elections.

You are 100% right Walt.

That ship has sailed a while ago, or should I say SUNK!?

[LittleClarkie]

237. Don McTigue

How can he have jumped ship when he got flack back in August for a rumor that he was GOING to jump ship in Ohio. If he was rumored to be thinking about jumping ship in Ohio, he would have to have been ON the ship in the first place, don't you think?

GLib lawsuit. Don McTigue is his lawyer. It appears to be stalled, mostly I'm assuming because Republicans determine if and when it gets a date to proceed. He's involved in two other lawsuits involving suppression as opposed to fraud, I'm told, one of which involves the League of Women Voters.

So no, I reckon he's still on the ship.

[Time for change]

252. Just because someone makes a mistake

doesn't mean that they are condemned for all time not to reconsider that mistake or to put the record straight.

It is never too late to reconsider a matter as important as this one, especially as new evidence turns up.

I don't agree with Kerry's decision to concede when he did. But for whatever reason, he made that decision based on the information he had at the time. If he is now aware of new evidence, there should be no barrier to his talking about it.

[stevietheman]

253. A concession is not a legally binding statement. n/t

n/t

[lonestarnot]

22. Agree... it's called election protection.

[mod mom]

204. John Conyers and the House Judiciary Dem Legal staff has the proof!

Never say TOO LATE!

remember that is much doubt and suspicion in the minds of the American people. The time is ripe for the truth to come out

ESPECIALLY SINCE A SECOND LIFETIME APPOINTMENT TO THE SUPREME COURT IS HERE! This apptment will effect our country for a generation.

those of us who were active in the post election investigation have NO DOUBT, as does Conyer's staff, so why wait until '06?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. I agree with you totally Walter. I came on board to DU right after the

stolen election and we all did what we could do to prove it was stolen, and Kerry folded like a boxer taking a dive in a fixed fight. The Greens and the Libertarians had to carry the torch for Truth and Kerry only went in it to question once it was embarrassing for him.

I have lost my taste for this man who not only lost the stolen election but probably helped us lose our Democracy.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

111. This has nothing to do with if you like Kerry or not.

I'd prefer the man not run for President again, myself. However, if he could go on the record as saying there's reason to believe there was fraud and he's trying get other Senators to look into it, that would help advance the cause.

If someone, any one of them, would just bring up the GAO report, that would help our cause!

As it is right now the silence is deafening, and that silence is what will be the end of our Democracy in the United States.

[Stand and Fight]

129. Nuts!

What was he supposed to do? Step forward with speculation from partisans like ourselves? He did not have an option -- period. He would have surely been swiftboating, and sometimes people have to understand that instant gratification is often NOT the answer. John Kerry handled the situation correctly given the reality that the GAO -- a non-partisan organization -- just put out their report that backs up everything we've been saying.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

166. Yes he should have stepped forward. There were enough questions

about the exit poll numbers, voter disenfranchisement. Conyers was there immediately questioning. The Greens and Libertarians were there too. Perhaps if he had a backbone he might have blasted the whole thing open right there and then. National attention would have been drawn to the irregularities. He was sitting with Millions of Dollars in his Recount Fund and did squat with it, while the Greens and Libertarians were screaming for donations. Plenty of us on DU opened up our wallets to help their cause, because that cause was for an open and honest Democracy.

[Stand and Fight]

173. It was not concrete. I donated to those causes.

I wholeheartedly believed the election was stolen, but did I know it beyond a reasonable doubt? No. Do I have any reasonable doubts now as to whether it was stolen? No. I am absolutely 100% certain that the bastard Republicans stole the 2004 election -- just as certain as I am that they stole the 2000 election. In all honesty, there were no concrete facts when John Kerry conceded, and therefore -- in hindsight -- I don't resent him, but at the time I hated him. Now that my head has cooled and reason returned, I believe he did the right thing.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

190. With public exposure and all of the dollars in his coffers, concrete

evidence might have been uncovered.

Here is a link to Democracy Now's show for today. There were a plethora of questions, and I still believe it was Kerry's responsible to our Democracy to have held off conceding. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/04/1532218

Peace

[Stand and Fight]

196. I must agree with you there.

I think he could have held off a little while longer than he did, but contesting the election at that time would have been the wrong thing to do without REAL SOLID proof.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

211. Probable Cause.

Not enough voting machines in Democratic districts. Changing voting stations without notification. Voting machines that were tallying votes for Bush when the people were voting for Kerry. The district where the Libs and Greens cleaned up on votes. The precinct where the doors were closed to open observation of vote counting because of a nefarious terror alert. These are just the ones off the top of my head right now, and I know there were more. The big disparity in the exit polls, days later estimated at millions to one chance of Bush winning. Just with that probably cause Kerry had every right and still in my mind the Obligation to the American people to challenge the election. Once a real investigation started with massive media oversight and Kerry's immediately available funds, we might have had a chance. Kerry didn't take that chance, and it was a very sad notation in the history of our country.

[Stand and Fight]

215. That may work in the court of law, but not the court of public opinion.

Everything you have stated -- though it is enough for me -- would not have been enough to change public opinion. It is supposition and that would not have been enough to change anything. As convinced as you and I may have been then, and remain convinced today, that the election was stolen, it would not have changed the minds of hardcore Republicans or even Independents. Heck, there is a strong camp here on DU who still do not believe that the election was stolen. As hard as it is for me to admit, they had as much reason to believe that the election was not stolen as we did to believe it was. However, the recent introduction of the GAO Report into the debate changes things radically. The Government Accounting Office is a non-partisan organization, and for them to come out saying that there is solid proof is wonderful. Wonderful because it clarifies what so many people here believed to be true a year ago. Now is the time for a delegation of Senators -- not lead by John Kerry -- to bring this into the public discourse.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

219. I understand what you are saying but I do believe that the ball of the

court of public opinion would have been on our side. If Kerry did really win, wouldn't more than half of those who voted supported his efforts for a recount? Not only was Ohio stolen, but I am 99.99% sure that many other states were as well. Heck, I even think Kerry might have won Texas. There were many reports of machines there "misreading" votes. The thing is...what did Kerry have to lose?
Not to sound redundant, but when he gave up, we all lost.

One more thing. From the moment that ** "won", and polls were put out there about how the American people felt about issues (ie pro-choice), the majority of the people poll took opposite positions of the Shrub. That alone says something.

[Stand and Fight]

226. I agree with you about public opinion polls... The time to strike is NOW!

It is especially revealing that his approval rating was lower RIGHT AFTER the election than before and it has continued to fall. (The lowest poll having the little bastard at 35% approval.) However, at the time I don't think public opinion would have changed with the MSM so on the Republican side and our prima facie evidence. There was too much room for doubt based upon what was known at the time.

I have to take issue with your view that when he gave up we all lost. Whether or not we lost is solely up to us and has NOTHING to do with any candidate. It is ultimately up to us -- the little people like you and I -- to force and bring about change. We experienced a setback, but so many things have weakened Bush and the Republican party. They are besieged on all sides by public scandal -- DeLay, Frist, the White House. The war has beaten the hell out of their public image because everthing they've said has proven to be wrong. Their handling of Katrina. The rising costs of gas. The ever-widening gap between the havenots and have-mores since Bush took office in 2000. Our countrymen may have been asleep, but they're -- albeit slowly -- waking up now.

Now is the time to put our cases on so many issues before the court of public opinion. Poll after poll has shown that the American people (gasp!) are seeing things as we on DU have been seeing them for years. Now is the time to strike and take down the beasts -- for election fraud, lying us into a war, betraying the public good, and so many other issues. Treason. Treason! They're guilty of it and we can make it stick if we will get behind our representative leaders in Congress rather than piling on them.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

261. You're right Stand and Fight, the time is to strike now that the

blinders are being uncovered from the collective populations eyes.

Since we had our last exchange, it seems that Kerry has disavowed what he said to Mark Crispin Miller about the election being stolen. I won't elaborate, but I think you understand, that isn't a good thing.

Have a beautiful day and peace. :hi:

[meganmonkey]

28. If it means that our system can get fixed, or at least draw attention

to the fact that it NEEDS getting fixed, then it is NOT too late.

It's too late for Kerry to be Pres, that's for sure, fuck him anyway for taking this long.

But if this can help us ensure that our votes will be counted in the future, it is VERY important, IMO.

[Walt Starr]

46. Not with KERRY doing it.

If he has evidence, he has just made it useless.

If he has no evidence, then the issue is even more tinfoilhat nuttery.

This was a STUPID move by Kerry. If he has hard evidence the election was stolen, he has now tainted it.

[meganmonkey]

56. I see your point, but despite all the things I don't like about Kerry,

I do think he is thorough, methodical and logical, and he wouldn't open this can of worms unless he has reason to believe it is the right time and place.

But time will tell...

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

59. As with all politicians, he has a huge ego

and his ego just got in the way.

[blm]

212. Baloney - the hard evidence was ERASED IMMEDIATELY. It was never to be had

That's the first problem with most of the criticism directed at him personally.

YOU want to throw over and SHUT UP the lawmaker with the best record of uncovering serious government corruption that says more about YOUR priorities and YOUR ego.

[steveofwalmart]

55. is it too late - why should it be too late.

Kerry could not have seriously contested the election until the case was concrete. perhaps he has been working in the background on it? if he was to come out now calling into question the legitamacy of the 2004 election then it must be a real concrete case. and if it did work out right this way, it could destroy the republican partys image forever more.

[seabeyond]

107. BULLSHIT n/t

[mzmolly]

115. Kerry put forth legislation in FEBRUARY OF 05!

See my thread in GD and help out.

[madinmaryland]

9. If Kerry was not willing to stand up last year

about this issue, how does he expect senators now to stand up for him.

Does Kerry have the proof?

[helderheid]

13. My impression of Kerry is he wouldn't say anything unless he was

absolutely certain. I think that's why it took so long too. Kerry has respect and I'm glad he's on board, no matter how long it took.

[lukasahero]

21. Ditto that

Kerry is a skilled and patient investigator. If he'd come out and said this earlier without any proof, THEN the whole thing would have been written off as conspiracy theory and would never have been able to be taken seriously again. Because Kerry bowed out gracefully without turning middle America against him and making the whole situation nothing more than a freak sideshow, he can address it seriously now. I only hope he has proof.

[madinmaryland]

52. If he has the PROOF.

If he has it, then by all means bring it on!!! I'm 100% behind you!

[lukasahero]

79. I agree

If he doesn't then it's all over - for real. I can't imagine what's motivating him to speak now if he doesn't have something.

[ClayZ]

250. Victim or Volunteer?

Kerry is a VICTIM. Look at what the smear campaign did to
John McCain. He is still a lap dog, who only goes outside to breath fresh air ocaisonally, prefering to remain addicted to BU$H.

Kerry too, had battered candidate syndrome! Bad advisers, up to and after the election. He paid for their services and USED their advise. Perhaps those advisers were double dipping!

Just because we could see it ..... It is like trying to convince a battered wife to come out of the relationship!

It is real. My parents are completely still Bamboozled. They are not dumb, just simply brainwashed. DENIAL!

KKKarl and Dick studied, and knew how to play the whole game, up to this moment. They are still at the game board. Kerry and Edwards might be able to pull a BIG CHECKMATE by OUTING THE CHEATERS! If they are among the cheaters they too will be outed.

[Stand and Fight]

135. I completely concur.

It would have torn this country apart if he had dragged this out based on what was -- at the time -- speculation and cursory evidence at best. Napoléon Bonaparte once said that in war there is a perfect time to strike. It may well be that now is that time, because it surely was not in November of 2004 or the months immediately thereafter.

[seabeyond]

113. firstly he challenged ohio thru lawsuit, secondly

he needs something. cant just stand in front of camera and throw a hissy, cheat cheat, they werent fair and stole election. without anything. i would assume this is what he has been working on. talked to dnc 6 months ago and woman said of course was stolen. i was just happy it was said. kerry wife said stolen, well cool to know cause if she thinks so, i imagine kerry does too. surely they wouldnt let it slide. cool they are working on it. so i didnt hear anything this year, he was doing the work

[mzmolly]

140. The COUNT EVERY VOTE ACT put fourth in 2/05 is standing up.

Please see my thread in GD and stand up yourself by supporting this legislation. ;)

[lonestarnot]

11. Well I'll just be damned...

:spray: :popcorn: :shrug:

[malaise]

12. Well I knew last year this time

Exit polls do not change like that. He remained silent and so did MSM. Too late.

[hadrons]

16. took him this long to figure it out????

[seabeyond]

117. maybe took him this long to gather info so he didnt look the fool

just standing there saying trust me, it was stolen. i have nothing to prove it, but i am saying it anyway. dont i look the fool

[cmf]

19. A Day Late and a Dollar Short

oh well. It's probably too late to do anything about the voting machines that will hand the Repigs a sweeping victory in 2006.

[lonestarnot]

23. NOT too late!

[seabeyond]

120. bullshit. do you want this addressed or not. bottom line.

i would prefer we talk about it

[Junkdrawer]

26. FROM WHERE WE SIT, WE NEED ALL THE ALLIES WE CAN GET...

John: Your country its calling.....

[shance]

93. Absolutely. This is good news along with the GAO report.

Lets keep the truth and the reform moving forward. This is another positive spoke in the wheel.

Thats the main thing.

[tlsmith1963]

27. It's About Time

With the crap that the Bush administration has been pulling, I believe 100% that they stole the last *two* Presidential elections. But who would be President if this turns out to be true? Gore? Kerry?

Tammy

[DemoTex]

30. Kerry fought in Vietnam, when he didn't "have" to.

Unfortunately, he chose not to fight in 2004 .. when he had to. I wish I could fathom the Why? of Kerry's 2004 choice.

[DanCa]

31. Hello behind the times news cancell Senator Kerry's subscription.

And transfer his account to the Blatantly Obvious Herald :D
I too think it's too late too do anything..

[Jackpine Radical]

32. How I feel about this depends entirely on what happens next.

I could well imagine Kerry, old prosecutor that he is, waiting until he has incontrovertible proof. If he had shot his mouth off a year ago with nothing to back him up, he would have harmed us all. As with Fiitzgerald, knowing and proving are different animals.

At any time in the past, Kerry's charge would have only earned him scorn and CCCP (Complicit Corporate-Controlled Press) accusations of being a poor loser and a crybaby. Remember, after all, what they did with the Swiftboat charges and even Dean's nonnexistent scream. Mere truth is not an adequate defense against the Propaganda Machine.

This may be the best timing after all for Kerry's assault. The Bushco armor casing is being hit by so many kinds of projectiles right now that it may crack and give way once and for all.

[DemExpat]

45. Yes, it will be great if this is another arrow being shot out

of the Dem camp towards the weakened enemy.

DemEx

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. I would prefer to have heard those words out of Kerry's own mouth

I'm not doubting Mr. Miller, but imagine the fire it would light under so many if Kerry would go public with that statement.

[DeepModem Mom]

35. Stolen election talk has been ridiculed -- but that could change now.

If a serious discussion of this in MSM could now take place, I would celebrate that. If even the possibility that Bush stole two elections could enter the minds of the majority of people, it would be a victory for our democracy.

[lonestarnot]

37. Amen Mama!

[Junkdrawer]

38. I think Mark Miller is trying to force Kerry out of the closet...

It's a high stakes move. Stay tuned...

[lonestarnot]

42. waiting and watching.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

69. Good.

Our time is running out, the 2006 elections are only one year away.

If we don't get some serious attention paid to election fraud now there's no chance for reform before then.

Poke him with that stick Mr. Miller!

[Catherine Vincent]

41. What happened to "crying in the teacups"?

[Desertrose]

49. Excuse me, but if it took Kerry a year to figure this out....

what does that say about his qualifications to run this country.

Just sayin'....

[DemExpat]

60. I believe Theresa has been telling him this all along....

:evilgrin:

But I think that men in his position have to have what can be presented as proof before they can come out and say the truth.

:hi:

DemEx

[Mass]

65. I agree - it is not as if many democratic leaders have said the election

was stolen.

Even Conyers when he made his investigations said it was not about the election being stolen, it was about people being prevented to vote.

[Desertrose]

77. All the more reason he should listen to his wife....

LOL, right Dem Ex??

(Women RULE!!) :evilgrin:

:hi:
DR

[xchrom]

51. oh boy....

:popcorn: :popcorn:

i believe i need two popcorns for this.

[HamdenRice]

54. I blame Kerry for folding, but he didn't have the info we have now

It's really a lot like the Iraq war resolution -- they were making decisions on incomplete or false information. I don't respect Kerry for folding, but understand that he did not have exit poll analyses, information about withheld voting machines, electronic glitches, etc.

The point is not that Kerry will be the spokesperson on this issue, but that it moves from the fringes to the mainstream debate at the very moment that the shrub administration is vulnerable on the war, plamegate, corruption, Katrina, etc.

It's up to ALL the Democratic leaders to bring this front and center.

[lonestarnot]

57. So let's have it!

[Mass]

58. Excellent post

[DemExpat]

68. I agree...the time now is RIPE.

:kick: 'em while they are faltering...

:kick:

DemEx

[Hubert Flottz]

116. I agree with you.

It may well have taken the man this long to collect his evidence. And the best possible way to have collected the facts, was to fly under the radar. The GOPers would have shredded anything they had in the way of proof, had they known Kerry was looking into this.

I don't think Kerry would have made a statement to someone, if he wasn't ready to present the facts, that he thinks might prove his case. Think in terms of Fitz's investigation being ongoing for almost two years. How stupid would Kerry have looked if he'd gone after Bush in 2004, without the evidence. The calmness in the House and Senate lately about the crooked voting machines and rigged elections, makes me even more inclined to believe, that something positive might STILL be in the works.

If Kerry has the proof, at the very least he might put an end to Bush's "Political Capital" and stop the insane neocon stampede.

[Stand and Fight]

152. Absolutely.

You summarize my own feelings on this very well.

[stevietheman]

254. I agree... the evidence for a stolen election wasn't conclusive...

at the time Kerry conceded, and certainly the _announced_ vote difference in Ohio was very sizable. Further, the political climate and how the MSM operated at that time made it problematic for Kerry to do otherwise. And of course, there was no way he could have backtracked from his concession within a month or so from the election, even after discovering evidence that pointed toward a stolen election. If he had, he would have been eaten alive.

I think we should strive to be more magnanimous about Kerry's actions.

[mattclearing]

64. He should have supported the Ohio recount when he had the chance.

Kerry was so scared of being branded a sore loser that he is actually going to end up being one. Sucks.

[artzykat71]

66. Come on, this is a good thing....

Kerry is a prosecutor, he's not going to come out and say that the election was stolen with out some evidence. Anything that shines a spotlight on the election fraud is a good thing. We should support him in this.

[skooooo]

88. I agree...whether you like Kerry or not...

..this is a big development IF the Dems. ACT ON IT!!!!

[glitch]

96. Most of us do, and welcome to DU!

People here need to vent a lot of their pain from last year, but I have a feeling Kerry sees a bigger picture. This isn't about him or the presidency or being a hero.

This is about saving our country and that requires prosecuting and convicting the criminals and genuine elecion reform.

[Podface]

70. GAO!

The GAO report is what he needed. Now he has it.

Could be an interesting future.

[WiseButAngrySara]

102. Exactly! I have read through this entire thread, and this is the first

time I've encountered a mention of the very 'proof' that others are whining about. You want evidence?:

The GAO Report

[riqster]

118. "Knowing" isn't enough.

The GAO report gives him the ammunition he needs.
Remember, when Kerry charged the enemy in 'Nam, he had loaded guns that were ready to fire. No reason to do this any differently.

[WiseButAngrySara]

132. I agree. Actually though, if the MSM hadn't been so slavishly supportive

of, and participatory in B* 'election', there is and was ample evidence already in the exit poll data analysis, and the electronic paperless voting machine anomalies. Kerry conceded too quickly. That is done. He now has the evidence he demands. Ler's hope that he/they use it.

[seabeyond]

130. this is the biggest duh. most this thread disgusts me

what is not being gotten. i am thrilled kerry is speaking out now and understand why he didnt. because i didnt know kerry was aware doesnt mean kerry wasnt aware but knew he had to gather the info

[MelissaB]

72. If this comes to play and other senators handle it as stated in the OP

it will draw a lot of attention. Think about it...most people didn't know until recently they were lied to about going to war. They haven't connected the dots yet that if these people would lie us into a war they would flip votes to steal an election. Imagine the clip of Rep Peter King saying before the election that it's all over but the counting, and we'll do the counting. Imagine people seeing the exit polls being changed. There are so many things that could be brought out.

Does this bring back any memories? http://www.velvetrevolution.us/#020505

[carolinalady]

73. Would I support Kerry in 2008?

If Kerry has an eye on the next election-I think he needs to
take action now!

1. Get his info out on every msm outlet with the GAO report-now is the time to strike when the chimp is down.

2. Keep this info on the front burner and inspire the country to change those machines.

3. Work with Dean to get good sos candidates elected in every state.

4. Work with the pac's to get a series of public info-ads in the airwaves.

5. Attack attack attack the RW spin machine--kick ass and name names.

If he does that I would support him again in 2008. If he does not, I have no reason to believe that he will not roll over and play dead in the next election.

[WiseButAngrySara]

126. Excellent points! THE GAO REPORT !!! ....n/t

[seabeyond]

133. i would so support his ass and tell all, was elected before

repugs stole. he belongs. and i think kerry knows this. he has been so forefront in critizism with bush and repugs. not pulling punches. knows now how far these asshles will go. none of us could imagine any politician being such pig, corrupt, disgusting as bushco. kerry knows

[seabeyond]

138. PEOPLE.... kerry didnt even have dems supporting election theft

wrong place

[mtnsnake]

74. I used to like Kerry at one time. Now he sickens me.

In retrospect, that whole campaign is like a never-ending nightmare, and the more I hear from Kerry, the more I hope he never runs for us again. End of rant.

[TayTay]

94. Take a Tums and move on

Was it his vote against Condi or Gonzales that turned you off or was it the vote against the Bankruptcy Bill this year and against CAFTA.

Which one of these actions sickens you the most?

[mtnsnake]

124. Since you asked....

He sickens me, period.

The thought of his brutally pathetic campaign sickens me the most. The thought of him running in '08 sickens me. Do I need to say more? No. I just hope he never runs again. I'm sick of losing.

[TayTay]

136. Well, I'm so happy to hear it wasn't about issues.

I'm glad that it's personal. That makes the decision so much more logical and progressive. Do you hate all Dems, the ones with progressive agenda or just the ones who don't do exactly what you want and when you want it. I would like to follow the path of your reasoning, but somehow I'm having trouble with it. (So, it was the Condi vote right? You have a secret thing for Condi and resented the fact that he voted against her both in committee and on the floor. Well, there's no accounting for some people's taste now is there.)

BTW, are there any Dems who don't sicken you? Please share some of their voting records if possible. Or the fact that you like the brand of mousse they use. Either way, what's the difference?

[mtnsnake]

154. TayTay, you've tried your feeble condescending crap before

with me and with other posters. It didn't work then, and it won't work now, at least not with me. If you can't stomach hearing criticism about John Kerry without initiating personal attacks toward the one criticizing him, then maybe you're the one in need of the Tums.

BTW, don't you ever again question my loyalty as a Democrat by trying to put your sleazy words in my mouth in the form of some unrelated question like "are there any Dems who don't sicken you?". I don't appreciate that, especially when it comes from the likes of you. Hope that helps.

[TayTay]

163. I see. You know the view from the top of Moral Mountain

is a bit obscured when one starts a discussion with 'he sickens me.' Is it condescending to point out that I read these words and questioned whether or not they constituted a well-reasoned argument against a pol or a personal vendetta. Hmmmmm, I wonder.

Perhaps people who live in glass houses should get some industrial strength Windex and clean their windows before they object that others can't see in. Woudn't hurt.

And thank you for the comment about my 'sleazy words.' I plan on using them tonight with my husband. He just loves it when I talk sleazy to him. (Grrrrrrr. Hot Dem women. Yum!)

Coming from the 'likes of you.' LOL! Would that be a person who dissents from what you are saying or a person who questions how you arrived at your conclusion? Either is a viable reason for a comment. That is, in fact, the usual grounds upon which arguments are based. I am sorry it upsets you. But sometimes people do ask posters in a public forum that deals with the hot button issues of the day to clarify their remarks. It's one of those occupational hazards of posting publicly. Better luck next time.

[mtnsnake]

222. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Nice try

[Mira]

82. Whoop di doo and la di da ----when I think back to the agony

of the days after the election
and the misplaced hope in Kerry coming front and center and supporting us
when we questioned and railed against the election......which was so OBVIOUSLY rigged that I saw it as it was happening in front of my eyes......
when we really really needed him not to concede and be a man of his words about getting all the votes counted.....

then his speaking up now in his typical way of too little and way too late is of no consequence to me.

Don't even mention his name.

Kerry walked out on me and the promises he made to me.
It's personal. I worked my butt off for him.

[goforit]

104. At least Gore contested his(and won for real). Kerry dumped his .

I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry voted for Bush when he closed the curtain.

[LittleClarkie]

241. Often, in relation to Kerry, folks say "why do the same thing

expecting a different outcome" Of course, they're talking about his running again.

But I can see how that could also be applied to attempting to do what Gore did, even though it didn't actually work.

In fact, I fear it was in being ready for what happened to Gore that the Kerry campaign went wrong. They didn't end up with Gore's situation. They ended up with their own special brand of FUBAR. They didn't end up with supression and recounts, they ended up with suppression and fraud. They weren't ready for the fraud, they were ready for the recounts.

[Catherine Vincent]

86. I am listening to Democracy Now right now.

Mark Crispin Miller is talking to Amy Goodman about the 2004 election.

[Junkdrawer]

89. Do me a favor and make sure it's Dodd that is fighting Kerry...

As I said on my main post, I'm 90% sure that's who he said...

[Catherine Vincent]

109. He just said that Kerry is arguing with Sen. Christopher Dodd.

[Junkdrawer]

122. Thanks! n/t

[Verve]

87. What a Bunch of Negative Nincompoops on this Thread!

Kerry could not have raised this issue right after the election. Remember what happened to Gore? Kerry did the smart thing. He quietly has been getting his facts together and is waiting to pounce at the opportune time. And that time is just about ripe.

Some of you people need to remember this is political as well as factual. The political environment of 1 year ago was stifling! Dan Rather and Joe Wilson learned you don't mess with these people when they're on top. They would have and did, eat anyone alive for telling the truth back then.

The times are changing. The criminals are in free fall right now and the media is reporting it. It's Kerry's turn to pounce.

[TK421]

99. I'm confused about something, and maybe you could help

I would still support Kerry and vote for him again, and I agree with everything you said. What I don't understand is that this forum was quite livid when the election was stolen,and the majority here voted for Kerry...now he's "a year too late?" WTF

[Verve]

131. I think it is emotions running wild.

After the election, this sight was furiously busy finding dozens upon dozens of irregularities in the election. IMO, it became clear to many DUer's that fraud did occur in many forms. However, week after week, we were waiting for this to take hold in the media. Week after week, many of us, were being called conspiracy theorists, sore losers, etc by anyone who didn't look at blogs and DU.

It was frustrating that here we were fighting to uncover fraud while Kerry was silent. I think many here felt it was a slap in the face.
It was so glaringly obvious that the election was manipulated!

However, like my first post stated, I believe Kerry couldn't have done anything better than stay silent and get his facts straight.

IMO, people will come around if Kerry does take up this fight and gets this out into the mainstream media. Especially, if he clarifies why he waited so long.

[TK421]

137. Kerry housed Bush in the debates, and the entire country witnessed it

In my opinion, he is still the best choice.

[Verve]

155. I agree. Unfortunately, my dog would be a better president than Bush.n/t

[Stand and Fight]

158. Excellent analysis. Three cheers for Verve!

Hip-hip-hooray!
Hip-hip-hooray!!
Hip-hip-hooray!!!
:yourock:

[Verve]

162. Ahhhhh....

:blush: Thank you Stand and Fight!

[Stand and Fight]

169. No problem.

You have to give credit where credit is due.

[helderheid]

105. I completely agree with you!

[glitch]

108. I feel like I woke up in the monkey house! Whole lotta cacaphony going on.

Like I said above, people do need to vent their pain, but this isn't about making Kerry our hero, it's about election reform and saving our country from criminal control. Success at that will be the bottom line.

We don't need heroes, we need election reform.

[goforit]

110. Voting for Kerry was like voting for Bush. He would've kept same agenda

[helderheid]

119. yea and there was no difference between Gore and Bush either, right?

:sarcasm:

[WiseButAngrySara]

143. Negative Neanderthal Nincompoops! I agree 100% Verve! ....n/t

edited for spelling (This Nincompoop misspelled Neanderthal!)

[Ganja Ninja]

90. Despite my feeling of being let down by Kerry ...

It's better to address this now than to wait until the next election is stolen and try to do something about it.

Way to wake up Senator. Anybody know where he parks his car? I'd like to borrow it for 18 months or so. He probably won't even notice it's gone.

[sepia_steel]

92. NOW is all we've got.

I fully support ANYONE who wants to work to make the truth heard.

AND I WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN HAPPILY.

[Stephanie]

98. I sent this thread to Mark

We'll see if we can get further comments from him.

[Seabiscuit]

112. If only Kerry had kept his promise to fight for every vote, he'd be

President today.

Edwards was visibly shaken and upset when Kerry conceded the election to Shrub and pulled his attorneys out of Ohio.

The GAO just came to the conclusion that there was indeed voting fraud in the Ohio election and that Kerry should have won the state.

See: http://www.rockrivertimes.com/index.pl?cmd=viewstory&cat=2&id=11529

[mzmolly]

144. See my thread in GD.

If Kerry had come out before conclusive evidence, he'd have been ignored. I'd rather that CAVA passes before he cry's "the election was stolen!"

:hi:

Please help out by asking your local's to support CEVA. It's made simple in my thread.

:)

[Seabiscuit]

184. If Kerry had done as promised and taken the election fraud in Ohio to

court, he would not have been "ignored". He at least *should* have won in the courts. No one ignored Gore when he took the Florida case to court, even though he eventually lost thanks to the Scalia "gang of five".

Instead, over a year after the election results and after the GAO issued a report pursuant to Rep. Conyers' request, Kerry conveniently states the obvious.

Just like last week, over three years after voting for the IWR, and well over a year after telling Tim Russert that he wouldn't change his vote even knowing there were no WMDs, no connection to Al Queda, and no threat at all from Iraq, at a time when Bush's poll numbers were down to 38%, and at a time when virtually every Democrat in Congress has been attacking the Bush regime for manufacturing intelligence in its case for attacking Iraq, Kerry conveniently and pretty quietly says he would have voted differently on the IWR.

There's a reason Kerry isn't President today. There's a certain "leadership" quality which he had during Vietnam, but which has since gone AWOL.

[mzmolly]

187. The difference in Florida was 500. I think they stole this to the point

where a court case would have been tossed out on it's face without evidence beyond exit polls. We had no way to count like they did in Florida. Thus, the need for a paper trail.

HEY - I thought Kerry lost because the election was stolen?! ;)

I think Kerry takes a while to come around sometimes, but he does come around.

[Seabiscuit]

205. Well....

Sure, Kerry lost because the election was stolen. But he also lost because he should have won by a landslide, which could not have been stolen - he was running against the weakest, most vulnerable, and most corrupt pResident in U.S. history, and ran one of the worst campaigns in U.S. history. He failed to exert any real leadership on the Iraq issue, for example. His positions were confused, self-contradictory, often absurd, and totally ineffective.

I'm not about to speculate about the result of a court case - I'm merely pointing out that had Kerry challenged the Ohio results in court as promised, his challenge would *not* have gone "ignored", as you originally said. Beyond that, it would have at least focused more attention on the Diebold problem a year ago, which really should have been more forcefully addressed long before last year's election.

Until we get back to paper ballots, Democrats can't just win on issues alone - theft will continue to occur so long as Diebold and other like Republican controlled companies are involved in the electoral process.

Yes, Kerry appears to have come around quite a bit this year, but, alas, he has shown himself to be more of a follower than a leader.

[mzmolly]

210. There are no polls that indicate Bush was vulnerable.

http://pollingreport2.com/wh2004a.htm

Sure DU considered him a failure, but many Americans unfortunately did not.

[Seabiscuit]

221. The polls then were distorted because Dems like Kerry never pounded

Bush on the issues the way they should have, so the real issues weren't in the news.

The polls today about Bush aren't perfect, but they paint a more accurate picture of his weaknesses across the board. He was just as weak then, but the MSM wasn't talking about it because Dem leaders like Kerry with MSM exposure weren't talking enough about it.

So the polls at that time are in no way any barometer of how Kerry would have done against Bush if he'd been a lot tougher on Bush. Bush's weaknesses were there for him to expose - Kerry just didn't take advantage of it.

[mzmolly]

240. Okey dokey. I say they are as they are because Republicans =

half the country and they are collectively brain washed.

I do agree that Dems failed to take Bush to task on National Security and other issues however. Especially his "failure to protect America" on 911.

[Marr]

121. Better late than never. It was obvious that the thing was being stolen

even before it was over. I remember watching the election coverage- Kerry was ahead in exit polls even in places they didnt expect it, like South Dakota (IIRC).

As soon as I saw a few states go to Bush where he'd been behind in exit polls, I knew the thing was being stolen. I think most everyone here did.

You know what still burns my ass about that? Just two weeks later was that election crisis in Ukraine with Yuschenko, the western puppet candidate. Every single American news outlet stated repeatedly that the election had obviously been stolen because the results didn't match the exit polls. I saw Wolf Blitzer LITERALLY go from that story straight to the US election, and he and his panel were in full agreement that we should probably not do exit polling here in the states because they were "innaccurate" this time.

[WiseButAngrySara]

157. I remember that blatant hypocricy with bitter incredulity also. There was

also an election in ? S. America ? in which exit poll discrepancies were enough to discount election results. Does the MSM really think we are that stupid? Apparently so.

[Fly by night]

125. Anti-Kerry naysayers seem to believe the 2004 election was our last one.

And if we don't bring more light to the 2004 election theft, it might well be. The GAO report was a major breakthrough for legitimizing our concerns for the integrity of our past and future elections. I would recommend that Walt Starr and Mass get that report and read it.

I also believe that Jimmy Carter's recent statements that it is no longer about Republicans versus Democrats, it is about the immoral Bushitlers versus every other presidential administration over the past 100 years hit the "culture of corruption" nail on the head much better than the Smirking Chimp hit real nails at his recent photo-op. If Carter believes that now is not the time for subtlety and politeness, why in the hell should John Kerry?

We are dealing with an illegitimate cabal controlling OUR country, and we need to imprison the bastards without benefit of counsel in Gitmo until Karl's ass drops off, Cheney's glare becomes fixed and unfocused and Bush's "cocaine jaw" becomes unhinged. What these mofos seem to believe is good for the Islamic goose is also good (IMO) for these scum-sucking Texas dogs.

Now would be a fine time for John Kerry to speak up. If the Bushies lied to us about Iraq (and everything else), why would we believe they wouldn't lie to us about the safety and security of our elections.

Treason is a capital offense. Hang those election-stealing fuckers high!!

[leftofthedial]

127. now *that's* leadership!

Not.

[Bridget Burke]

128. Good for Kerry.

Let's hope his work will help ensure fair elections in the future.

I see that some of the heartbroken are still sobbing into their pillows every night. Even if they never vote for Kerry again, why should they reject this effort?

[TayTay]

134. Why would Sen. Dodd oppose this?

Dodd was the Senate sponser of HAVA and he worked with John Conyers on getting this bill through Congress. He advocated strongly against the voter ID requirment that the Carter-Baker commission tried to recommend.

Quote from Chris Dodd this year: "Earlier this year, Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) introduced the Democracy Begins at Home Act, which would require the Election Assistance Commission, an oversight entity created by HAVA, to establish mandatory standards for voting systems and poll workers within a certain geographic area.

The reform measure would also require voter-verified ballots, though not necessarily of the paper variety; Election Day registration procedures for each state; a national federal write-in absentee ballot; public notification of all voter roll purging 60 days in advance of a federal election; and numerous other changes." 4/19/05 Roll Call

Why would Dodd fight this?????????

How accurate is this report?

[seabeyond]

141. PEOPLE.... kerry didnt even have dems supporting election theft

a year ago. i saw the theft. immediately knew, about 7pm bush in yellow room, knew it was stolen. things in place. i had more people on this board from that night.... for months challenging me on election theft. we had the biggest threads of people calling us conspiracy theorists if we beleived election was stolen. dems across the nation ignored all the points on theft and said it wasnt so. media, immediately put out story that if a dem said theft, it would be the far extreme left conspiracy theorists

for people to a year later say they expected kerry to stand up and challenges is foolish. and it ignores fact. and reality

[helderheid]

156. people here called me a conspiracy theorist on this

[seabeyond]

160. we had to have our own little space to talk election theft

we were being attack by the majority when we talked about it. there was absolutely a line. the intellectual elitist democrats were opposed to such talk. my inlaws that have the bucks, east coast democrats, man they ignored me, dissed me when i said election fraud. total national theft. it was not a popular idea with democratic party, and media, media immediately jumped on it. it is absurd to have expected kerry to challenge the election, with total empty hands and very LITTLE support

[helderheid]

191. hugs

:hug:

[bpilgrim]

142. Better LATE, then NEVER!

this issue must be brought out into the light of day and with our leaders helping, the sooner it will be dealt with.

wooHoo :bounce:

peace

[seabeyond]

146. better now, than before its time

i prefer to have it come out now, that more people are receptive to repugs being so very dishonest and corrupt than when the majority strongly refused to entertain any thought that repug would steal vote thru out the nation

[mzmolly]

145. Please see MY THREAD ON THIS SUBJECT HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5263516&mesg_id=5263516

[seabeyond]

147. so mch easier to ridicule and dismiss than go off fact

thank you molly

[mzmolly]

161. Thank YOU Seabeyond.

:hi:

I agree, some people would rather bitch than act, and open their eyes.

[WiseButAngrySara]

171. Thanks for the link, mzmolly! ....n/t

[mzmolly]

176. Shur!

:hi:

[leesa]

149. Boy, he's fast. Always makes statements when it is safe to do so.

That ain't a leader.

[ComerPerro]

150. A little late now. The public will just laugh this down

And, suppose that someone can offer solid evidence that there was massive election fraud by the Republicans.

What changes?

Bush will still be President.

And the public will just be told by the GOP and the media that "Democrats are sore losers, this is just a mean-spirited attack, fraud happens all the time on both sides."

[paineinthearse]

151. With all due respect to my junior senator, we have a saying here.....

"Dawn breaks over Marblehead"

Good morning, Mr. Kerry.


Marblehead Rock with migrating geese from Chandler Hovey Park

p.s. Some time ago, I asked in the Kerry group for a copy of the statement that was either on his campaign website or sent to supporters by email, to the effect "I will not give up until all votes have been counted".

Any help getting a copy or link?

[TayTay]

165. It's on his Senate site.

Go to the Press release section. Everything from this year is there. It's been there all year.

[JerseygirlCT]

159. keeping this kicked -m

because I want to know later if you can be sure it's Dodd. He's my senator, and I've rather liked him. I'd be sure to write if this is the case.

[ROH]

164. Recommended (n/t)

[WiseButAngrySara]

168. Go Kerry! You have MY back. Walt Starr and other negative DUers,

read the GAO Report.

:kick: and Recommended. Thanks for this most encouraging post!!!!

[seabeyond]

172. i am thrilled ot hear it too. i talked to woman at dnc

about 6 motnhs ago and told her no money if you arent going to address election theft. it was stolen you know. she said of course it was stolen. the first person within that i heard like it was a given. gave me hope. yes they worked on it quietly and hopefully have done the work, and we will be able to get this out, address this area in election, and maybe have enough awareness going on for 2006

this is nothing but a good thing. there is no room for anything else

[WiseButAngrySara]

238. I so agree with you seabeyond! .....n/t

[ryan_cats]

170. Damn it Kerry, shout this from the rooftops!

Damn it Kerry, shout this from the rooftops! I really wish he'd have said this before January 20 last year but it's at least before the 2006 elections. I have no doubt they will try to steal that one, especially since the wheels are coming off of this administration and people are seeing the truth.

[Yavin4]

174. Walt Is 100% Correct

The time to challenge was last year, not this year. You throw the red flag right after the play, not a year after the game is over. If he does have some evidence of voter tampering, give to an Ohio Democrat, and let that Democrat run with it. It would look a lot better if a Democrat from the state where fraud took place called for an investigation.

On a larger point, this shows that Kerry just does not have the skills or instincts to be a national candidate. The difference between Dems and Repubs is that the Repubs can run a complete moron, but because of their high powered money interests, they can paper over any gaffes or mistakes or blunders. We don't have that luxury. Our politicians need to be razor sharp. They have to be aggressive, smart, intelligent, and most importantly, they need to have great political instincts.

Kerry waltzed through the primaries untouched. No Democrat in the history of the party had an easier path to the nomination. He won every virtually every primary, and he was uncontested by other Dems. Howard Dean graciously exited the campaign, and immediately threw his support behind Kerry.

And what did Kerry do with all of this support? He fumbled it away in the Spring and Summer. He hired Mary Beth "don't respond to the Swift Boat smears" Cahill and Bob "Concession Speech Writer" Strum. Face it, Kerry is not ready for prime time. He should stay out of the campaign in 2008, and go away.

Lord help us if we get a President George Allen or President Bill Frist.

[lonestarnot]

188. This issue can't be micromanaged down to Kerry. It's larger

much larger. It's elections and freedom and the American people's vote. Let the info flow. But why should we have to "buy" the transcript?

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. EXCELLENT.... it takes this long to face it

so be it, the fact is... once it starts percolating you can do soemthing about it

[Junkdrawer]

183. PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT UP NOW--->>>>>

New York University professor and author Mark Crispin Miller says in an interview on Democracy Now!: “ told me he now thinks the election was stolen. He says he doesn't believe he is the person that can be out in front because of the sour grapes question. But he said he believes it was stolen. He says he argues with his democratic colleagues on the hill. He said he had a fight with Christopher Dodd because he said there's questions about the voting machines and Dodd was angry.”

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/04/1532222

[Fiendish Thingy]

231. Well, it sounds like Kerry is following Walt's advice...

He didn't make a public statement, but admitted this to Miller privately, and acknowledged that he shouldn't take the lead on this issue, as Walt stated. Miller disclosed this second hand, so I don't think there's much harm done, especially if Dean, or Conyers, or Reid pick up the ball and run with it...Rule 21 anyone?

[paparush]

186. At least he's doing it before the Midterms...

and well in advance of the '08 presidential Vote*.

[marions ghost]

189. Considering the censorship and denial

of anything to do with election corruption, this news sounds good to me! If the GAO report gives legislators legitimacy to pursue the massive problems in the election system, then I say

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Most Americans have no knowledge of what really goes on in elections -- there is huge ignorance and denial about how widespread the corruption is. I saw this at state level once in the 90's. There was so much Repug malfeasance that it was painfully obvious the election was stolen. But the loser has absolutely NO incentive to contest an election. The party wants to move on, the media wants to move on, the candidates want to move on. There was no support whatsoever. Our system does not provide for effective recounts and overturning elections. We saw that clearly in FL in '00 and OH in '04 but it is true around the country. It's unrealistic to think the candidate has the burden to sacrifice him/her self to clean up an incredibly compromised system, immediately after being shredded by it.

I don't think it's debatable that the complicit media would have viciously attacked Kerry if he had dared to try to overturn the election. He would have been crucified in the court of public opinion, which would have left him incapable of doing anything later. The problems are too entrenched. So I don't think it's too late at all for Kerry to address the issues now. With people like Christopher Dodd "objecting"---it won't be easy to do that even now. I'm willing to give Kerry a break and see what he can do. I'd be interested in hearing what those who were on the ground in Ohio have to say about this. Whether they think the time has passed for Kerry to be effective.

[Junkdrawer]

195. DU EXCLUSIVE: Mark Crispin Miller on this news:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=399775&mesg_id=399790

[garybeck]

198. Uh, er... if Kerry thinks it was stolen, why doesn't HE tell us that?

Why is he hiding?

[seabeyond]

201. lets see, must be a tough start to realizing the possibilty repugs

would steal in sucha mannner, the first people he tells it to, dont believe him, he gets in fights over it,.....maybe,..... he doesnt think there is support. maybe he needs to hear from ALL of us. adn we need to support him, and help to gather support for him, like emailing dodds

[garybeck]

268. you have it bass ackwards...

the truth is on our side. the facts, the numbers, everything. the only thing is that Kerry isn't supporting us. we are forced to fight this fight with no money no large organization helping us. it has been going on like this for at least a year. his lack of support is appauling.

[Senator]

202. This is NOT ABOUT Kerry - He's neither Hero NOR Villian now

Great minds discuss ideas; -- Average minds discuss events; -- Small minds discuss people.


It was never about Kerry. If he's going to speak out about the Stolen Election (or ElectionS) that's great.

But it doesn't improve his profile as a "leader" much.

Any Dem could take the leadership of the party if they came fully clean, going back to Stolen Election I (2000), standing on principle to say that the bushkid was NEVER an elected leader, but rather an appointed ruler.

They would also have to ACT on the principle, and commit to impeach and remove this regime or, failing that, pass a resolution declaring the bushkid's illegitimacy and expressing regret to the American People and the world for our failure of democracy. NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES - POSTHUMOUSLY IF NECESSARY.

Yes, this may well be pipe-dreamin' (but not completely).

Until then we muddle through with less than ideal "leaders" and continue to forcefully support them in their good acts and oppose them in their bad ones.

Never forgetting when they've let us down or stood courageously with us.

At this point? -- BOXER/REID '08

----
www.january6th.org

[Junkdrawer]

224. We need to cast off the "tinfoilhat" put downs and start asking...

"So why aren't elections appropriately audited?"...

Control of the most powerful military on the planet is at stake. Of course power hungry liars will cheat if given half a chance.

Hell, we give them the ballots and trust them to tell the truth without audits. I don't know which is worse: their crimes or our stupidity.

[Swamp Rat]

248. Pass me da pipe...

Cuz dat's all I got is dreams... to see FEMA Director Michael Brown get multiple life sentences for negligent homicide. :mad:

[newportdadde]

208. Breaking: Coach asks for instant replay from game two weeks ago.

[nodehopper]

209. they knew at the time. And I know this because

right after the election I was compiling a resource list of electoral fraud to pass on to Kerry and his attorneys (not, like, of my own initiative but because someone very close to him specifically requested it)--I don't know if anyone remembers that, but a lot of people on DU were very helpful in that project--and I was told at the time that, at least, THK knew it had been stolen and had a team of lawyers working on it and was actively involved in supervising it, but that they did not turn up the sort of smoking gun they needed at the time, all evidence (and there was plenty of it) was circumstantial.

[texpatriot2004]

216. The ELECTION FRAUD issue IS now being revealed. It's going

to come out. This is great news. Kerry wouldn't say this unless he was convinced.

[ContraBass Black]

218. I'd like to ban the word "BREAKING" from DU.

It seems to be applied only to things we knew years ago.

[FreedomAngel82]

227. Do they still have a court date for August 2006??

I remember a good while back Kerry was going to give up and lots of DUers sent an Email or whatever to him and someone on DU sent a lot of evidence to the lawyers and they stayed on. I also remember someone posted on BradBlog that one of Kerry's daughters was getting threats. :shrug: I also read in another post with this that Teresa was doing her own research on it. Maybe something is coming out of it. :shrug: There seems to be a lot of changes going on with the democrats. Maybe some things are going to come to light. :shrug:

[cassiepriam]

233. There is a God. Someone addressing the stolen elections.

A miracle.

[AspenRose]

235. FYI: New Mexico and voting machines

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2222409

Part of the puzzle.

[sojourner]

242. Kerry's not going to confirm this reported conversation...link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5265609&mesg_id=5265609

[LittleClarkie]

243. I suspect he's always know that. He just couldn't prove it

Bless his heart, he had to get over his usual instinct of wanting to be able to prove it like a District Attorney.

He's reminding me more now of the Kerry of the 80's. His own Democrats are against him. He will be pushing for an investigation that nobody actually wants, and getting attacked by his own people for it. Brave, if you ask me. He's getting alittle old for this shit, but there he goes again.

I'm proud of him. And not surprised that people are reacting the way they are, though. This is why he's never been terribly popular. He pushes shit that people don't want pushed.

But if he doesn't push, we will never get at the truth. It's not for him necessarily, though if he runs again he might benefit from the truth coming out. It's as much for those coming after him who deserve clean elections.

But something just occurred to me. If my obsessive/compulsive former DA of a candidate is coming out NOW, does that mean that he's found some evidence that he considers rock solid enough to come out with? Hmm. Intriguing. I've always assumed he wouldn't push this issue if he DIDN'T have that.

[Bill Bored]

246. Dodd is a shill for e-voting companies.

He has been a miserable failure on this issue. If he had an R after his name I'd think he was elected fraudulently too! But this would have been difficult in CT because they don't have e-voting...YET.

[Freddie Stubbs]

247. Does anyone remember the non-MSM sources last December

claiming that Kerry was preparing to 'unconceede' and contest the election? I'll believe it when I hear Kerry say it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x194892

[Garbo 2004]

249. Kerry reportedly denies report according to Raw Story.

A spokesman for Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) vehemently denied that the senator had told a popular liberal author and journalist that he believed the 2004 election was "stolen" in response to queries from RAW STORY.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Senator_Kerry_rebuffs_claim_he_said_1104.html

[paineinthearse]

255. A spokesman

:rofl:

Back-peddling, spin contol, yeah, we know all about "spokesmen".

I want to see the transcript and audio/video of Kerry's actual words.

[mnhtnbb]

257. Good ole' flip-flop is still at it!

[AntiFascist]

251. Better Late than Never...

but now with the GAO Report out he should find support from other Dem leaders and stress fixing the problems for future elections, otherwise Repugs will just use the sour grapes argument.

[Fescue4u]

256. Took him a Year to figure out what we knew

in 15 minutes

sigh

[brettdale]

258. John Kerry

John Kerry should of said this straight away, he should now call a press conference and say the election was stolen.

[garybeck]

260. SORRY, THERE'S AN UPDATE TO THIS FOLKS...

Kerry (through his spokesman) flatly denies the conversation with Miller. check rawstory.com

[bpilgrim]

262. well at least it got some headlines - this debate is looooooong over due

how many MORE elections are we willing to risk?

many thanks to professor MCM for spreading the word :bounce: :toast:

peace

[HamdenRice]

263. What is all this talk about Soviet Jewelry?!!! Oh, never mind.-

--Emily Litella

[in_cog_ni_to]

264. My question...WHY IS DODD OPPOSING THE EFFORTS????

What the hell is wrong with him? All he has to do is READ about the fraud, LOOK AT the proof.

[Independent_Liberal]

266. People, you have my 100% guarantee that this will be so explosive...

...that the Administration and the GOP will NOT survive it. No fucking way in hell! When this is proven, a whole truckload of Republicans will resign from Congress and various state positions. Everybody will know that they've been cheating. They'll never try it again! NEVER!

[Verve]

267. I hope you're right. Yet if some Dems were cheating as well, we'll have

a HUGE mess on our hands!

All corrupt politicians must go!

[garybeck]

269. only problem is...

Kerry backtracked and is in denial again. Maybe they were right, he really is a flip flopper.