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Envision the headline -- Iraq WMD Lie: Cheney & Plame Clashed at CIA HQ

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:38 PM
Original message
Envision the headline -- Iraq WMD Lie: Cheney & Plame Clashed at CIA HQ
When you think of all the trips Cheney is supposed to have made to CIA HQ.

When you think of how badly he, Bush and the neoconsters wanted to launch their imperialistic war on Iraq.

Think about the second, or third, or fourth trip -- he's being rebuffed; his efforts to "fix the intelligence" are being blocked.

The folk at CIA HQ are going to need to be digging deep to show Dickie boy that the facts are the facts; that they know folk have stolen stationary from the Niger Embassy in Rome; they know .... .

Cheney's freaking -- demanding as Vice President of the United States to be shown ALL the facts. Who's gathering, who's analyzing, what part of our WMD covert infrastructure is tracking all the players .... If he was applying the type of pressure people have alluded as VP of the USA, he's going to be sitting in secure room with the folk at CIA who are the undisputed experts; bona fides on the table. Who's going to be one of those experts?

The question Mr Fitzgerald wants Mr Libby to answer is -- "Did Vice President Cheney tell you that Valerie Plame/Wilson was a NOC?"

He might also have asked -- "Did Vice President Cheney tell you he had direct interactions with Valerie Plame/Wilson?" and "Were you present at any of the meeting(s) Vice President Cheney had (at CIA HQ or elsewhere) that included Valerie Plame/Wilson?"

So, here's a simple, testable hypothesis:

Several bloggers and folk have speculated as to why a "meticulous and intelligent" lawyer, i.e., Libby, would commit multiple felonies as part of a cover-up.

Perhaps it's simple - Libby knew Cheney had direct contact with Valerie Wilson at the CIA. Not tangential interaction, but direct. Perhaps Mrs Wilson was among those challenging the VP regarding any citation of the forged Niger documents.

A key aspect of this hypothesis is that TO THIS DAY, Mrs. Wilson would likely be prohibited by the "need to know" caveat, from discussing any such interactions with Cheney -- with anyone -- including her husband.

Ambassador Wilson would have no "need to know" regarding the activities of Mrs. Wilson's CIA division, particularly, any actions she may have had with the VP and his representatives (which would have included Libby and Hannah and others).

Amb. Wilson has been explicit that after Mrs. Wilson introduced him at CIA HQ she left the room and had no further dealings with his trip to Niger.

Thus, Mrs. Wilson would not have been able to prevent Amb. Wilson from publishing his Op-Ed by using the one piece of information that might have given him pause -- that she was a principal in the efforts of the CIA (all of which were classified) to keep the President from using the Niger reference in his October 7, 2002, speech in Cincinnati, and all subsequent efforts to prevent that information from being used to justify a war on Iraq.

Just an hypothesis -- but a testable one.

All Mr. Fitzgerald has to do, if he hasn't already, is ask Mrs. Wilson the question(s). And, he has both the security clearances and "need to know."


Sorry to be a bit of a pain on this one, but I would really appreciate it if all of you would send the URL of this OP to as many media and Congressional folk as you can.

Cheney must be asked this question. McClellan needs to be confronted with this question in repeated White House Press briefings.

I'd sure like to hear some reporters asking all these questions -- to Mr Fitzgerald, to the Vice President, to Mr Libby and to Mrs Wilson, just to get them out there. No expectation they would be answered, but to get them into the record and into the heads of all our fellow citizens.

It is not the least bit far fetched that Vice President Cheney and Mrs Wilson crossed each other's path on the Iraqi WMD issue. Did they?

We all need to know.


Thank you.


Peace.


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. To me, Plame is the key also, not Joe Wilson. They were going
after Plame and her job with the CIA and BJennings, but Fitz is biding his time. Oooh, I love a good mystery, and hope this plays out to its conclusion.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I agree. The more I've studied and thought about this situation, the more
... I've realized that "getting even with Joe Wilson" has little to nothing to do with why the neoconsters outed Valerie Plame Wilson.

They wanted her and her activities, STOPPED.

Otherwise, they had plenty of ways to slap Ambassador Wilson around without trashing significant intelligence assets.


Peace.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. I sure hope this case goes to trial!
Fitzgerald needs to ask those questions!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree.
Peace.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good question. I'll do what I can...
Peace.:hi:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thank you.
Peace.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. I admire
your tenacity. I will forward this to my Senators and Representatives.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Thank you.
Peace.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. de rien, mon cher!
Le jour de gloire est arrive!

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ask this one simple question, ul....Does anyone really believe that
Poppy Bush and all his cronies just woke up one day and decided to STOP dealing arms and drugs along with their moneylaundering activities all over the world?

Cheezus Keerist, the congressional record and the National Security Archives are full of documents of this very practice.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. All I know is what I see folk like Scowcroft and Wilkerson doing ...
... and their actions suggest the neoconsters are in deeper trouble than an ordinary citizen like me will ever know.

That aside, I want Cheney asked the direct question -- Did he and Valerie Plame Wilson have any contact regarding National Security matters prior to July, 2003?


Peace.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hmm, very good question.
It's possible, Cheny stopped by the CIA many, many times.
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KatieB Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick - Fantastic job of connecting the dots...no one has asked
Why Cheney was even telling Libby that PLame was CIA. Fritz just reports that Libby first heard it from Cheney, but we are never told WHY.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. #9, p.5: "On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice ...
.... President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

Link to the indictment:
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/04ms407-I.pdf

DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5205585


One week later -- Knight Ridder:

"Prosecutors say Cheney passed classified information about the CIA officer's identity to Libby, who then allegedly shared it with reporters."

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/13074379.htm


Just to "send a message to Joe Wilson" ... I don't think so.


Peace.

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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Has Wilson ever written about this?
If his wife met Cheney, then wouldn't that be a smoking gun he'd like to reveal?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I can find no evidence of it. However, as I note, ...
Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 12:30 AM by understandinglife
... his wife is still CIA, and even if she wasn't, her husband would have "no need to know" such information about what would certainly have been classified exchanges with the VP.

Given the nature of the situation, Mrs Valerie Plame Wilson could be in violation of her SF312 if she were to reveal such information about any exchanges (if they happened) with the VP -- even to her husband.


Peace.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Joe Wilson knows.
Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 12:40 AM by Tatiana
At least of the fact that Cheney and Mrs. Wilson had personal dealings. Since he's first gone public years ago, I have gotten the sense that he is trying to protect his wife. I watched the 60 min. interview and thought there were two significant points Mr. Wilson made:

1) Valerie had business cards with B&J printed on them.

2) Her career was over.

I think these are significant points because a) you've got to wonder who Joe Wilson had in mind as receiving one of those business cards and b) her work was so important that her career in that area being over is a loss to all Americans. Let's face it, Valerie is obviously a highly intelligent and admired woman. She could continue doing work in another department of the CIA or in some other capacity. But there was a real sense of loss when Joe Wilson said her career was over.

On edit: just to make my point clear... Lots of people say Joe Wilson is an egotist and full of himself, blah blah blah. I think what he is doing is deflecting the attention regarding the real source of outrage (which is something perilous to this nation and VERY HIGHLY CLASSIFIED) onto himself. He put himself out there and kept this issue alive in order to get this investigation. But I think what he really wants investigated is something he will not let the public (specifically the media) know.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I think its much bigger than Plame herself - I think that it had to do w/
the entire operation of Brewster Jennings. I still theorize that the outing of her and actually Brewster Jennings specifically was to shut down that operation and what they were doing. I think that in their operation to track the trafficking of wmd's that they uncovered some information that the administration didn't want revealed. I've wondered if they came across a plan by this administration to "plant wmd's" in Iraq....Anyway, I just think this is much bigger than we can really imagine and when you say that the loss to this country and all americans was huge, I think it was a loss far greater than just Valerie Plame's contribution...I think the whole Brewster Jennings operation was significant...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yep. See ...
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hi TahitiNut!
Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 11:08 AM by Pachamama
Long time no see on the DU...thanks for the link.... :hi:

Looks like you and I are thinking along the same lines on this one....I keep thinking about how the Judge who wrote the opinion originally in this process who made the statement about the serious national security implications....

Anyway, it will be interesting to seeing how this all unfolds...If the truth is allowed to come out in the next few years (and certainly in our lifetime), then I believe its going to show just how serious this whole thing was. And if the whole Bush/Cheney Cabal isn't in jail, then they most certainly will be remembered for eternity as not only the worst administration ever, but the most treasonous and worst thing ever to happen to the United States of America.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Thank you. For reasons I've noted, I avoid speculating on what ..
... Amb Wilson knows.

I agree with you and others here that when the day arrives that we have access to what was redacted from Judge Tatel's decision, and the extensive information from which he wrote the 8 page summary, we are going to know that a significant intelligence infrastructure was destroyed and we will all know the person who did the most to destroy it - Cheney.

I'm receiving word that "the question" is being spread among many whom might be inclined to start asking it. We'll see.


Peace.

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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. The dots connect
I don't find this speculation farfetched at all.

Remember Rexon Ryu, the young State Department analyst who was close to Powell and who John Bolton tried to get fired? There was the trumped up charge that Ryu didn't deliver a cable to Bolton that he asked for. But it turned out that Ryu was in the room at CIA whe Powell was preparing for the UN presentation. Powell was under intense pressure. A script was written for him by John Hannah under the supervision of Stephen Hadley, but Powell wouldn't follow it. When the WH found out, a whole group (mainly members of the WHIG) went to CIA to "help" prepare Powell.

Dafna Linzer wrote in the Washington Post that Ryu was instrumental in getting some of the worst stuff out of Powell's presentation. Recall that the most significant item taken out of the presentation (and the thing Hadley kept slipping back in until Powell yelled at him) was the Niger uranium claim. Suppose Rexon Ryu argued in that room that the Niger claim was weak and shouldn't be included.

And a few weeks later Bolton tried to fire him.

Rexon Ryu couldn't tell about his role in the Iraq saga, either, until it all came out in the press anyway.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. I know you know I support this theory
:D :hi:
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. Damn, I gotta read slower, I saw "Cheney's plane crashed at CIA HQ"
for a few seconds...
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Exactly, understandinglife...
...I also wondered while Cheney was personally supervising and cherry-picking the CIA data he could use in trying to sell the war, if he hadn't notice that Brewster-Jennings was doing their job a little too well.

Too well for Halliburton's interests in the region.

More importantly, too well for TPTB to slip a few, WMD past the Brewster-Jennings spooks, and then into Iraq to find.

Cheney had to reeely dig to find anything at all that supported a reason for war.

And, because finally it became apparent that it was a wicked hard task since there was hardly anything at all that could even be twisted to support the war, intelligence was forged/made up.

All that digging Cheney did must have taken him past the secret intelligence reports from Brewster-Jennings.

Mayhaps the intelligence that Brewster-Jennings did have, however, deeply displeased Crashcart.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
23. Libby and Miller's job is to Run the clock.
The administration has a lead in the game and is running the clock until power is consolidated. We're stuck watching the drama unfold, cheering on our champion who is literally fighting for our lives.

-Hoot
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Seems a couple of other champions have joined the fight!


Libby and Miller are going to be part of the pavement, as they and Cheney and Rove and Bush and ... find that they will not out run the steamroller of truth and justice.


Peace.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. I wonder about those 8 redacted pages
in the judges decision re:the press tell us much more about that. They wrote it was "evidence was so serious that they could not in good conscience allow the press to protect the criminals and crimes that had been committed"
That sounds like something beyond just outing Plame, as serious as that is. The part that accused them of that was not redacted.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes, the 8 redacted pages from Judge Tatel's opinion are of ..
... considerable interest. They were very much the focus of Lawrence O'Donnell's initial blog at Huffington Post on Rove.

I've cited that opinion in several posts here at DU, here are a few links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4041542

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4188467

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4235387

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4952302

And, what everyone needs to remember is that those 8 redacted pages from Judge Tatel's opinion represent a summary of all the information Mr. Fitzgerald and his colleagues presented. The judge cites the severity of the National Security issues that the evidence Mr. Fitzgerald and his colleagues presented.

We have not heard nearly the end of this story.


Peace.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
30. So, Senator Graham - how about asking this question, publicly?
Graham says Libby didn't act alone in CIA leak case

Vice President Dick Cheney must explain what he knew about the activities of his top aide, who was indicted in the CIA leak case, former Sen. Bob Graham said.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13105312.htm

The article was written by Frank Davis, so I'm emailing him this link. Maybe he'll ask the question....


Peace.
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