Why are people bitching about illegal immigration !?!

[slor]

The election was about abortion and boys kissing, right? Well, you fucktards, you got the prez you wanted, now you can just freeze to death this Winter, because your power gets shut off because you cannot pay for shit. Enjoy the "compassion" of your dumbass leader, which, in case you still have not noticed, is a compassion strictly dedicated to the rich greedy pigs that supported him. Whats' that you say? You thought he cared? You thought he was protecting you? What the fuck did you see happen on 9/11, you idiots!?! You saw a coward that ignored the events that he set into motion. You saw a buffoon illegally launch a war on country, which is now whipping up a firestorm of hatred for all of us. Nice work idiots!

[ContraBass Black]

1. It's an appeal to racism and xenophobia.

"The are taking over America!"

Just more of the same.

[Justitia]

2. Red meat for bigots. -eom

[Daphne08]

3. Because it's illegal?

Come to Southern California!

[Lefty48197]

4. It's racism

Give me your tired, your weary, your huddled-masses, as long as they're white.

[Wcross]

12. How about people waiting for a visa? Is it fair to them?

I had the opportunity to get into this very discussion with an immigrant from Nigeria. He wasn't too pleased about people sneaking in while he had to wait years.

[ret5hd]

23. how often do you get on message boards...

and bitch about illegal employers? How oten do you rant that illegal employers should be fined into financial ruin...financial ruin so dire as to be all but a death sentence? How often do you rant that illegal employers should be imprisoned, for many years, with no possibility of parole? How often do you rant that illegal employers should be scorned by their neighbors, shunned, pushed aside with a disgusted sneer, spat on, barred from enjoying the company of "nice" people?

you wanna solve the immigration "Problem"? The actions i listed above are the solution. A real solution. But you don't want that do ya'? "Cause you'd have to pay more for your peaches and your lettuce and your tomatoes and your roof and your chicken breasts and your clean office and your clean car and your pretty flowers and your manicured lawns and your mcdisgusting hamburgers and your clean store-front windows and your new mcdisgusting mcmansion and your rump roast.......

but you don't want all that, do ya'? Especially fining and imprisoning the employers...right?

cause really, what most people that bitch about undocumented workers REALLY want (even if they don't realize it) is to make sure that what happens doesn't affect them...except in a GOOD way.

[SoCalDem]

27. have you been reading my bookmarks :) ?

SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-27-05 03:51 PM
Original message
Would YOU pick peaches for $10 an hour? Babysit for $8 an hour?
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 03:53 PM by SoCalDem

The little troll on Lou Dobbs' show today flatly stated AGAIN (for the umpteenth time) that "there are just some jobs that Americans just WON'T do".. He claimed that "the 18 yr old at Starbucks would NOT pick peaches at ANY pay rate"..

I disagree. there are always people who WILL do menial labor, stoop labor, and repetitive type labor. They cannot AFFORD to do it at $5 an hour though.

The dilemma we have is this..

IF we assume that fruit/vegetable pickers are at the bottom of the wage-ladder, and prices have escalated to the level of today, is it because the workers have started to get MORE in wages, or that the companies HIRING them have just taken a larger and larger cut of the money generated from the sale of that fruit?

Oil companies have presented us with the same issue. Last year when oil was $50 a barrel, and prices climbed to "near $2.00", they raked in PROFITS up 50-60% over previous year levels...and now that oil is considerably higher, they are making even MORE OBSCENE profits.

Higher prices seem to have little if ANY connection with supply and demand. The only demand, is that the CEOs DEMAND more money.

But I digress...

Are there jobs that Americans won't do??

We have had septic tanks cleaned before..by Americans..

We have had plumbers crawl into spidery-filthy crawl spaces..Americans again

We have had concrete work done in August..by Americans

We have had babysitters..Americans

In fact, I personally, have NEVER hired a non-American to do ANY job I have ever needed done.. and I have never had ANY trouble finding someone to do whatever job we needed done..

I just wish that more people would call these guys on their coded diatribes.. There are jobs to be done, and there are people who would do them..but they expect to be paid..

How many CEOs take NO compensation for their work??

[Drix]

37. Immigration Hypocrites Make My Blood Boil

Imagine if you will you owned a farm, restaurant, hotel, car wash, whatever, and help keep costs low you sold crack on side or maybe a little kiddie porn. How long would you be in business? Not very long.

How is it businesses can traffic in illegal labor and not have government come crashing down on them like a ton bricks?

I live in SoCal. It no secret where illegal immigrants live and work. But if you reported a factory trafficking in illegal labor to a federal police agency you'd be lucky to get them to take a report, let alone arrest and prosecute owners and/or operators. But if you called those same government agencies and reported a factory manufacturing counterfeit Disney products the factory would be padlocked and the owners would be in jail in less than 24 hours!

And what about the immigrants themselves? Why are they scapegoated endlessly. These poor souls leave their home country, risking life and limb to scrub our toilets at slave wages and they are the culprits?!?!

How come they are not portrayed as devout, hardworking Christians, trying the best way they know to feed their their Christian
children?

Bottom line is illegal immigration is a smoke screen. The problem is exploited labor in Central America and illegal labor here. There is no good reason why Central Americans don't enjoy the same standard of living as Americans and Canadians.

Also this entire argument that Americans worker won't do these jobs is BS. They will do it if paid a fair wage. And when companies refuse to pay fair wages it's Americans who subsidize these companies profits.

You might think you got a cheap head of lettuce or car wash. But you didn't. You just paid the balance on your tax bill. Immigration workers like all people requires services such as police, fire, health, education, sewer, transportation, parks, etc. The list is endless. You couldn't deny them these services even if you wanted. And if the employers are not paying workers their fair share in wages the workers are not going to be able to pay their share in taxes. And when they don't pay their fair share people like you and me have to pick up the tab.

Or we can continue the fantasy of completely unconstitutional and unworkable solutions as Prop 187 by denying children of immigrants schooling (do you really want hundreds of thousands illiterate, bored, testosterone pumped teenagers running the streets unsupervised?). Or maybe we can make a law where if infectious diseases break out in their communities would don't have to treat them? Or how about we only repair 80% of roads and sewers because immigrants use the other 20%. Or how about we only inspect 80% of food because immigrants use the other 20%.

Before you start bashing immigrants think about what you are saying. Who is the culprit? Fat cat Republicans with seven figure plus bank accounts breaking the law or some poor Christian woman scrubbing toilets all day to feed her Christian children?

[jaysunb]

53. excellent post .....neighbor

:toast:

Welcome to DU

[NNN0LHI]

55. I can tell I am going to like reading many more of your posts in the future

Welcome to DU Drix.

Don

[newyawker99]

57. Hi Drix!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[xchrom]

5. beats me.

but there's a lot of things about people that don't bother me -- that is unless they're a closed minded, ignorant, backwards motherfucker that just can't get enough bigotry and hate in their lives.

[NNN0LHI]

6. Bait and switch n/t

[kweerwolf]

You ain't heard nothin' yet!

Just wait until the 2006 elections get closer. Illegal immigration with be the Repugnantcans' "gay marriage" issue.

[Sequoia]

7. Historically, it's we who are the illegal ones.

You all know US history: we stole this country. The Alamo, the Bear Flag rebellion, Sand Creek Massacre, kidnapping people and putting them on slave ships. Yep, we're a right bunch of American's all right.

[dime.end]

8. Look at what they say is happening in New Orleans..

The illegal immigrants are willing to work for less money.

That means people who did have a job have either lost it, or have to be willing to work for less money.

There is no way that you can bring in thousands of new workers without affecting the ones already here.

The trick is to find a better solution than paying foreigners starvation wages just because you can. Maybe help build up their country.

[Horse with no Name]

9. oooh I haven't seen a good illegal immigration thread in awhile

Just gonna sit here and :popcorn:

[shaniqua6392]

10. The three issues for Repugs in 2006 & 2008 are

abortion, boys kissing and immigration. The media is helping to begin their campaigns regarding immigration. Touchy subject. The Repugs are sick of those foreigners in the country, but the big companies love to use their cheap labor. How on earth are they going to balance that one? They are here to take the jobs Americans just will not do. They say we would rather starve to death than work these manual labor jobs! What a joke. I completely agree with your statement BTW. What the hell are they whining about now? They are getting exactly what they deserve. No jobs, riding around in your rusty beat up piece of shit car with the big W sticker on the back of it. What a bunch of inbred idiots. They would not see the truth if it came up and bit them on the ass.

[elehhhhna]

11. because they want to work construction in 105 degree heat? lol

[Ksec]

13. Illegals are illegal

They bring down American wages.

Im not hep to that scene man.

[lovelaureng]

17. self deleted

[shanti]

49. nafta had a hand it bringing down american wages

not illegals. illegals have always been here.

[Selatius]

14. Illegal immigration is a symptom of capitalism

There is a demand for labor, and that demand is coming from companies and businesses looking to underpay people and make more of a profit for themselves. By pitting citizens against illegal aliens in competition for jobs, the boss or owner wins, while the citizen is left unemployed or left with decreased wages in his neighborhood, while the illegal alien is exploited for his blood, sweat, and tears, and there'll be plenty of blood and tears to go around.

It's hard enough trying to live on 5.15 an hour without somebody able to do your job for a fraction of that. Of course, Mr. CEO wouldn't know what it's like for the rest of us.

[Union Thug]

21. True true true...

The expression "workers of the world unite" addresses exactly this. If the workers of the world did, indeed, unite, the whole system would crash down.

[lovelaureng]

15. It seems to be another excuse to

be able to place blame on illegal aliens. Something else to bitch about.

[stopbush]

16. Distraction. eom

[shanti]

50. nope, it's part of the tsunami

n/t

[Union Thug]

18. It's a show. Repukes love illegal immigration...

Illegals work cheap, under the table and cannot demand benefits. They destroy organized labor and bring down wage standards. The republicans LOVE illegal immigration for this specific reason.

Of course, they play to their religious nutcase base by taking a completely oppositie position, but rest assured, Repukes love it.

[SoCalDem]

19. Ahh. the Bloody shirt.. It's a tried and true trick..

SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-03-05 10:21 AM
Original message
We caught the bloody shirt, and are now waving it wildly.
The republicans cannot get a toehold in our ranks with issues that are ingrained in the party. Things like unions, equality, education and environmental issue, among others, are so much a part of us, that we do not splinter because of those issues....BUT

they have found one that DOES work. RACISM against immigration.

Each one of us has a responsibility to acknowledge their plan, and vow to resist it.

In times of plenty..plenty of jobs..plenty of educational opportunities...plenty of money...plenty of options, immigration goes pretty much unnoticed, and actually welcomed.

After a few years of republican rule, jobs just "magically disappear", and the Darwinist Racism bubbles to the surface:

"MY financial situation is bad because of....."
"I cannot find a job because of...."
"MY kid's classroom is crowded because of...."
"Gasoline costs so much because of....."

The 'fill in the blanks' part of those issues, and many others, has been occupied by many disparate groups. At times it's been the Irish, the Italians, the Blacks, the Mexicans,the Haitians,the Chinese, the Laotians, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians..etc etc etc..

The biggest nastiest ploy they are using now is the one where they seek out 'democrats' willing to go on the record supporting draconian measures against immigration (from Mexico mostly).

The approaches they use are varied in their range of subtlety, and range from the 'in-your-face' Minutemen camped on the border with coolers, sunglasses, beach umbrellas and guns...to the silver-tongued so-called statesmen who blame every community issue on 'illegal immigrants'.

It's called scapegoating, and it's been around for a LONG time.

The Mexican children are NOT causing your schools to suddenly disintegrate....republican oversight of education is what's wrong with it.

The Mexican workers are not driving wages down... the republican bosses, and the lax enforcement of labor laws are doing it.

The Mexicans are not driving the cost of housing up..if ANYTHING, their slave-wages are keeping the costs artificially LOWER than they might be.

The Mexicans are not a Homeland Security threat..in fact they are conned into JOINING our military as a citizenship-for-blood scheme..our recruiting numbers would be even WORSE without their participation.

Perhaps that fantastic $6 an hour job you always wanted, DID go to an undocumented worker, so in the next "immigrant sweep" , that job trimming palm trees or plucking chickens might once again become available..

Immigration is the issue the republicans have chosen to infiltrate our ranks.. Be vigilant and don't fall for it.

They know they cannot divide us on religion, choice, civil rights, job creation issues & unions, environment and others, but they are chipping away with immigration, because down deep, ALL people are scared when they think their livelihoods are challenged.

No one wants to lose their job, their homes or their chance at education.

Republicans are always trotting out real people like "Ann Ecdotal" and her friends to make their point that if only we would 'get tough on illegal immigration', all our problems would be solved..

Think back about ...oh....FORTY YEARS...Remember when the 'war on drugs' would solve all our problems? We all know how well that is going.

Immigrants come here because they CAN. There are jobs here or support systems in place (usually family who preceeded them). They pay into a system, using phony ID. Bosses accept that ID with a wink and a nod, not so they can pay their "legal" workers MORE,or provide better benefits with the money they save.. they accept the ID so THEY can keep the extra money saved.

As long as there is greed in America, there will always be "an immigration problem".

We will never "solve" the problem, because the people who COULD solve it, don't really think it's a problem.. They will NEVER admit it though.

[Union Thug]

20. The Mexican workers are not driving wages down, the republican bosses are.

Nailed it.

For this reason, I think that any employer caught hiring those not authorized to work in this country should be not only fined, but JAILED under the harshest conditions.

Hiring illegal immigrants hurts both the immigrants (who have to suffer under Dickensian working conditions) and drives down wages across the board.

[SoCalDem]

22. I would love to have MY plan instituted

1st time offense..boss/owner fined $10K per unlawful employee and 30 days community service. REAL: community service in the poor part of town...serving the poor

2nd time : $100K fine and OWNER of company and boss go to jail for 6 months..no plea bargain

3rd time: Company siezed and turned into a co-op run by employees..

druggies have their property sized all the time.. why is this any different?

[ret5hd]

25. here here...bravo...

see my post #23.

[Union Thug]

32. Great plan! n/t

[shanti]

51. shoot, in most 'third world' countries

non-citizens cannot take a job that a citizen might want (i.e., jamaica). they take care of their own first.

[dalaigh lllama]

24. How true

You said:

"For this reason, I think that any employer caught hiring those not authorized to work in this country should be not only fined, but JAILED under the harshest conditions."

I keep waiting to hear TPTB mention this as a possible solution. I don't necessarily think jailing the employers would be my optimal choice, but if they got hit HEAVILY in the pocketbook with fines, that would be a good start.

[ret5hd]

26. Why not jail them? Really, why not?

i think it would be EXCELLENT to see them in prison.

[dalaigh lllama]

30. Practical reasons, mainly.

If they get thrown in jail, it's just more of our tax dollars supporting them. AND, if they're an employer with perhaps some legal employees in addition to some illegal employees (in construction, for example), I would guess that the business would go belly up, which would punish the employees who just might be innocent grunts.
I guess I'd like to see them pay their debt to society in a way that benefits the rest of us -- show me da money.

[Union Thug]

34. I'm all for jailing them.. and in federal prisons

If they can't find someone to manage things while they are spending time with bubba in cell block 5, then the business probably wasn't worth saving in the first place.

Their actions devastate communities and exploit the vulnerable. We throw people in prison for life sentences on three strikes laws for selling a little pot, or stealing childrens' video tapes from a store, why shouldn't white collar trash be treated the same way? Their crimes, imo, are much more serious and of greater consequence.

[dalaigh lllama]

44. Actually

The whole penal system is probably long overdue for a redo -- someday, by some brave and bright politician. The inequity of punishments and sentences has always bothered me. I'd also like to see even a little public outrage at the rape that seems to be a common occurrence in these institutions.

[Union Thug]

45. As long as the trend is to privatize, don't count on it

Prisons for profit means only one thing...create more prisoners and reduce expenses. Any guesses as to what that means?

[dalaigh lllama]

48. Yet more injustice.

But when I try to mentally itemize all the terrible injustices going on, and that seem bound to continue, it just about debilitates me. All I can do is grit my teeth and do what I can, and hope that the efforts of many individuals can coalesce into a force to bring about the changes we wish to see.

[sufrommich]

28. I wonder how many people on this thread

have ever had to work an "under the table"side job to keep their heads above water?I get so tired of people explaining away the real fears that working people have about illegal aliens driving down wages as racism.I don't care who comes into this country legally.But simplistically shouting "racism"anytime someone voices a fear makes me want to spit!There are a lot of people in this country who do not have a college education,who aren't white collar workers pretty much protected from competing for the jobs you all dismiss as "unwanted".I have known many people who have to work as house cleaners or sod layers or lawn mowers just to pay their bills.Whats so funny about that!I;m beginning to think that the illegal immigration issue falls much more along class lines than between Dems and Reps.and I hope my party will act on those concerns.In the meantime,feel free to mock those of us who really are affected by the problem as low brow proles.

[Union Thug]

35. class lines... I agree with you completely. n/t

[amandabeech]

41. You are completely and absolutely correct.

That is why the problems posed to low-income citizens and legal residents are so hard to raise in both current political parties. Sometimes it just sounds like an upper middle class version of the Crips v. the Bloods, to put it in an '80s vernacular.

I'll go duck and cover now.

[Roxy66]

54. Bravo...not racism here, just wish my kids father could work Construction

again for a something above Minimum wage.

[sweetheart]

29. its a way to divide people

and it gives them a way to vent social frustration at a disenfranchised
poor minority that can't fight back. This technique of social
scapegoating so that powers can avoid the recompense of their
political actions.

And it is best to pick people who have weaker economic and legal
feet to stand on, so that nobody will fight for them, like gays,
unwed mothers, pregnant teenagers, immigrants, and the list gets biggggg
but immigrants is on the bottom of that list, the lowest of the low...
serfs without rights. And every commoner loves to spit on a serf.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Because bullys and racists are fond of attacking the helpless.

[tritsofme]

33. You're racist if you support upholding the law?

By holding illegal aliens and the companies that hire them accountable for their actions?

What a brave new world we live in...

[ret5hd]

36. you SAY hold the companies accountable...

but the only ACTION taken is against the undocumented workers.

[stepnw1f]

39. Exactly!!!! (nt)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. That's all George Wallace and Orville Faubus were doing.

Upholding the law.

[sufrommich]

42. Once again,

asking that immigration laws be upheld is not an act of racism.What is the answer to people coming into this country illegally?If all attempts to control the borders are really only thinly veiled racists maneuvers is your answer to open the borders and throw away immigration procedures and laws?

[Be Brave]

38. Beats me. Maybe you can ask Lou Dobbs. n/t

[Ksec]

43. So most of us are against illegal immigration

Its just who to blame that pisses you off. I blame the employers because if the jobs dried up so would the illegal immigration.

And surely you people cant think illegals driving wages down is good for America no matter who may be to blame. Im for legal immigrants but I cant bring myself to supporting the people who are putting me and my family out in the street. I consider it an insult to the people who have been driven out of their jobs by illegal immigration and there hiring.

[Raiden]

46. Xenophobia

Racism
Insecurity
Pride
Lack of compassion
Jingoism
Nationalism





I think that about sums it up

[applegrove]

47. The Repukes very much need "illigal immigration" to be a big issue

so they can fix it with temporary guest worker visas for all immigrants. That way they keep the costs of labour down.

If you do not know, in 2014, when all the boomers retire, there will be huge labour shortages and it would be a "worker's market" for the first time in a long time. That means wages would rise.

So repukes, to protect their rich corporate friends, want the guest-worker laws in place to keep the "worker's market" from developing.

A worker's market would help all american workers with better wages and businesses actually bidding against each other for them.

Would help AA, as well as communities who struggle these days. All the illegal immigrants in the USA will be needed too to fill those jobs in 2014.

But if they don't Amnesty them, and simply give them guest passes, they 1) do not have to face more voters from the wage earning classes 2) their corporations make profits because American workers(ignoring the current illegals right now) would then have to compete for american jobs with the "guest workers". Who are basically ... the whole world.

So - the talk about illigals is really about the corporations avoiding a "worker's market" for 20 years.. starting in 2014.

[jaysunb]

52. let me count the reasons...

Let's start w/ : a diversion designed to deflect attention away from the destruction of the middle class.

Racism, always a good wedge issue.

The minority, whose daily lives are in no way impacted by the issue, but is rationalized to justify their racism.

Did I mention racism ?

A proven divisive tool. ( divide and conquer? )

Well, lets just digest these few items before we go on.....:evilgrin:

[tamtam]

56. Oh hell

:popcorn:

I know I'm wrong but I just couldn't resist.