Scooter waived his right to a speedy trial--That's good for us

[justiceischeap]

The judge set a February status hearing to review motions and possibly set a trial date. Brings this case closer to 2006 elections.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Doesn't mean a thing

It's never going to trial, that's my prediction.

Presidential Pardon, the breakfast of fucks. You watch.

[soothsayer]

2. you can;t pardon someone until they're convicted, tho---right?

[rsdsharp]

4. Wrong.

Weinberger hadn't gone to trial when Poppy pardoned him. Nixon wasn't even charged with anything when Ford pardoned him.

[unblock]

5. sorry. they don't even need to be charged. remember nixon....

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Wrong, sorry

Read about what Poppy Fuckface did with Cap Weinberger and the other Iran-Contra thugs on Christmas Eve, 1992, and then read about Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon, who was an unindicted co-conspirator.

A pardon can take place even without an indictment. A mighty powerful tool the President has.

[alfredo]

20. Look what happened in Ky when Gov Ernie Fletcher pardoned

everyone staff member indicted, then granted blanket amnesty to the rest. His numbers dropped like a stone.

[justiceischeap]

3. I'll watch and bookmark this thread

If your prediction is correct, I will ask for the next powerball numbers from you. ;)

[mtnester]

14. Ask for them now...Old Leftie has been right on the money

so far on these proceedings/matters

[99Pancakes]

6. If he pardons, I predict an uproar.

I don't think this meathead would get away with a pardon.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. But,

I'm feeling especially demonic today -

Wouldn't you love to see him try it?

[DancingBear]

25. OK, I'll meet you at the same old place

Not to be confused with the old same place.

I'll bring the goat blood. You bring the pitchfork.

"i command thee Satan that thou est bring me the head of Scooter..."

<snaps out of it>

On a serious note, I would do cartwheels if DimSon used the Presidential Pardon, or "pee-pee" as we say. I keep thinking, however, that Fitzgerald knows this as well, and is structuring the case accordingly. Is this scenario possible, or does "pee-pee" trump anything Fitzgerald could preemptively do?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

26. I can't bring the pitchfork

I'm using it for transportation while the broom is in the shop.

It's not Scooter's head I want, and neither do you. Admit it, Dorothy.

Thank you for putting that vulgar, disrespectful, unforgettable abbreviation in my hitherto pristine head. Does it make you happy to know that I'll never again be able to read "Presidential pardon" without thinking of toilet-training my kids?

Now for the sad truth: The Presidential Pardon Power Is Absolute.

No appeal. No justification need be given. Nothing. Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution. It's absolute.

Fitzgerald would be immediately halted, I believe.

I'll get myself over to the same old place, but this pitchfork doesn't have the dash that the broom does, so feel free to start without me.........

[DancingBear]

28. I was afraid of that

Just hoping that one of those "law heads" that I used to sell, um, stuff to would know an end run.

BTW, if you shave just a wee bit off the cylinder heads and re-gap the plugs the pitchfork will haul ass.

Make me happy? Hell, I'm beside myself.

Regards,

Jekyll/Hyde

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. Straight razor

or electric?

WAIT.

What about a depilatory?

Thank you.

Portia

[DancingBear]

39. Random orbit air sander

Testosterone is the order of the day.


Bluto.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. Oh

That's what I call a "hair dryer." Right?

[DancingBear]

45. If it is, your "iron" must be a sight to behold

I'm all a-flutter.

Call us if you ever venture west of the Beltway - even though we don't smoke, drink, or eat meat, we still are snappy dinner guests. Mrs. DB has gotten the "I apologize for his behavior" part down pat.

"The sun is going down."
"No, no my boy, the horizon is moving up."

"Let's stand him on his head!"
"You see, now it's morning."

[OldLeftieLawyer]

47. You are definitely "on"

We're really tame, honest.

Old Yeller has nothing to say about politics, having been trained well and early by the Chinese government, but he does a marvelous job of cleaning up the broken crockery when the discussions get out of hand.

Wouldn't George Orwell be proud?

What's an "iron"?

Is that like a "mop"?

[halobeam]

27. I predict Bush won't give a flying "fig" about an uproar,

he'll do it anyway. He DOESN'T care. At all.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. I agree

And, really, wouldn't it be something to see what the fallout would be?

He's really in a terrible situation right now, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, damned for all eternity in hellfire that will blister his skin, causing him screaming pain and agony as all the souls of the dead whose lives he took in his worthless invasion of Iraq applaud.

I'm sorry. I lost it in that last line................

[halobeam]

46. I was right there with ya,

ESPECIALLY in the last line..LOL!

[cassiepriam]

34. Why would he? He is going to retire in luxury for the rest of his life.

He could care less what anyone thinks. And he doesn't
care if he hurts his own party either. He will pardon Libby and
all the crooks, not because he cares about them, but because he is buying their silence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Oh he can pardon and he will

nice hanuckah gift, but you are right, there will be an uproar

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Old Lefty:

Isn't there a loophole we can use to stop Bush from pardoning his own people?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. Nope

The Constitution gives him the power. It's unassailable.

Article 2, Section 2. Except for impeachment - which makes sense - it's an absolute power.

[PRETZEL]

11. I have to agree also that this won't go to trial,

but I do have a question and I'm really not sure how legal (or ethical for that matter) concerning evidence Fitzgerald has now that Libby has entered his plea.

My question would be that now that the plea has been entered would Fitzgerald make evidence available (albeit only limited evidence) that could possible force Libby into a deal prior to a Presidential pardon or perhaps evidence that would show that the pardon was done solely to protect others from prosecution?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. Sure

It's called "discovery," and that's where both sides show each other what they've got.

Now, as I understand it - I may be wrong, so keep that in mind - Libby's lawyers will have to get top-secret security clearances in order to do the proper discovery for his defense. That will take time, and could complicate the matter a whole hell of a lot. I do not have the slightest idea how that squares with what Fitzgerald's already got - which is testimony.

And, that would possibly trigger the ostensible grounds for a Presidential pardon - that national security was being compromised.

Here's the big trick about Presidential pardons: the President needs no excuse to grant one. He owes no one an explanation. It's an absolute right, requiring no public justification.

Article 2, Section 2 of our Constitution.

[justiceischeap]

15. Yes, both his lawyers are applying for clearance

MSNBC says it will take 3-4 weeks

[PRETZEL]

17. thanks,

Knowing that the President needs no justification for a Presidential pardon could it be possible (if provable) that the pardon in and of itself is an obstruction of justice if Fitzgerald has not concluded his investigation?

I'm thinking this in terms of Iran/Contra in which the pardons effectively shut down the Congressional investigation. But given that this is a criminal investigation does that change the scope of the issue?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. No

A Presidential pardon is a Constitutionally guaranteed right of the President, and can never be construed as a crime.

As I've posted elsewhere in this thread, a pardon of Libby would completely halt Fitzgerald's investigation. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

[PRETZEL]

22. thank you,

read too many of your posts concerning this to dispute your opinion.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. You're very kind,

and you're welcome.

(You ask great, and really easy, questions.)

[PRETZEL]

29. you're to thank

your insight into the realities of the situation is (at least from my perspective) very helpful.

If I may ask then (and please correct me) it seems that this will ultimately end up being a political issue for the Dem's in that they will use the pardon as a rallying cry for abuses that this administration has inflicted upon us. Is that a fair statement?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. Fair, indeed

I think it would go far beyond the Democrats, though, as the Republicans who are already deserting the sinking ship that appears to be the Oval Office would be the first (hypocrites) to add their lusty voices to the uproar of outrage.

Oh, I think it would be a grand move for the Democrats. It might - I'm just saying - be the wake-up call Americans need. But, on the other hand, it might galvanize the already-brain-dead supporters of Fuckface, who would bleat his line about "preserving national security" or whatever crap he'd spew when the pardon(s) is issued.

That's why I'd love to see the little squirt do it. Just to see what would happen.

[PRETZEL]

36. as would I

but my fear is that if the trial manages to go past the midterms then all the outcries would ultimately fall on deaf ears (assuming that the Republicans maintain their majority). I really don't see where a Republican majority would hold him responsible given their leadership.

[99Pancakes]

43. I'm with OldLeftieLawyer

I think, given the problems BushBot & Friends are having (with finding the word "integrity" in the dictionary)that a pardon would create a backlash. Repugs (happily) will get swept out.

Also, the criminal investigation of Libby stops dead (with a PP), but that doesn't remove Rove or Cheney from the picture.

[No Exit]

16. It's possible that Shrub will pardon Scooty-boot.

But with Shrub's ratings tanking at 35%, Shrub would wait till 2008, I would think.

At the federal level, trials can move with lightning speed. Obviously this one won't be quite so fast. BUT it's hard to imagine pretrial matters at the federal level lasting for THREE YEARS.

That means that some time between now and winter 2008, Scooty-boot is going to have to publicly face the music. Suppose his trial is finally ready to go in 2007. Since Fitzgerald has a strong case against him on some if not all of the indictments, Scooty-poo might still might end up spending some months in jail. I guess it depends on what might happen with an appeal bond.

I firmly believe that ANY amount of time in jail, no matter how small, is unacceptable to Scooty-boot, who is still a white collar, middle class, criminal-record-free guy. Such people see a lot of symbolic meaning in going to jail and wearing prison clothes, and they fight like hell to avoid it.

[justiceischeap]

18. Fitzgerald says the trial would take roughly 2 weeks. (eom)

[No Exit]

19. Sounds about right, given Fitzgerald's insistence on sticking

strictly to the offenses charged, and trying not to get into the larger picture of the con game that was played to lead stupid us into war.

But that's okay. I have faith in media people--at least bloggers--to keep this matter in the forefront, and to bring up the larger con game, hopefully on a daily basis.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. Hard to imagine anything taking so long?

Consider Enron and Ken Lay. Think about THAT. This stuff can move at a glacial pace.

There will be no trial. It's simply politically impossible. And if you think polls and Fuckface's approval rating means anything to him, I would guess that you're momentarily forgetting what an arrogant prick he is and what an arrogant bunch of pricks surround him.

Jail's not even in the picture. Just as a trial isn't in the picture.

That's my bet.

[emulatorloo]

38. Libby Pardon = Cat 5 hurricane

I am starting to think Bush will cut him loose. Unpopular Cheney is dragging the poor boy down. At some point Libby is going to wake up -- Sure dick promised to save me, but will bush follow though?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

48. Remember that ancient Chinese curse?

No, no, not my husband.

The other one.

"May you live in interesting times."

Imagine if Fuckface pardoned Libby. I mean, honestly, I'd pay to see that, but I'm a bit depraved like that.

[emulatorloo]

49. you're right -- it does have great potential

personally I am seeing no real good way out of this for Bush/Cheney.

Trial -- Dick and Rove under oath not good
Plea bargain -- Libby has to give something in return not good
Pardon -- really not good

[No Exit]

7. Look out--Scooty-boot's lawyer is repeating the trick that worked

so well for them in the first place. "There will be many First Amendment issues which must be litigated, because reporters will be told to give up notes, etc."

Scooty-boot's lawyer wants to draw out this litigation to delay, delay, delay. Delays are ALWAYS good for the defendant (as long as he is out on bail) in a criminal trial.

But fortunately there may be a glitch. It is the REPORTERS/MEDIA who have standing to raise the 1st Amendment issue and try to draw out the litigation about turning over their notes, etc. NOT Scooty-boot and his lawyer.

Will the media fuck us over once again? Will they needlessly drag this case out by fighting every order to turn over notes, etc.?

We need to pay attention to which media does this, and BOYCOTT THEM, and TELL them we are boycotting them, until they cut through the crap and get this matter moving to a public trial.

[hamerfan]

35. Then he IS guilty...

In my limited experience in this sort of thing, I've always been under the impression that only the truly guilty "waive time" as it's called, as it works to the defendant's benefit. Am I correct in this? Thanks!

[cassiepriam]

31. This will not go to trial. Scoot will get pardoned, with lots of $$$ in

bank from his repug friends. End of story.

[sadiesworld]

37. Delay, delay, delay.

Libby will wait until the last possible moment, enter a plea, serve a few months in Club Fed, and * will pardon him on the way out saying "he's done enough time".

[Justice Is Comin]

42. Pardon won't happen.

Republicans are already fighting for their lives to hold congress. It could never be done before that election. I wouldn't be surprised his own party would be furious about it.

Also, phase two will continue the bleeding or maybe cut an artery. If that happens, Bush won't be able to have a breakfast lunch that anybody would attend.

Won't happen. This meltdown is not at the end of the damage like when other pardons were given. This class action republican unveiling is just getting started.

The election is the third rail. It's suicide if he does.

[99Pancakes]

44. Agree

nt