BREAKING: FITZ STILL INVESTIGATING ROVE, AIDES DISCUSSING KARL'S FUTURE

[Halliburton]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/02/AR2005110203276.html

article is posted now

<snip>
Rove faces doubts about his White House status, there are new indications that he remains in legal jeopardy from Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's criminal investigation of the Plame leak. The prosecutor spoke this week with the lawyer for Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper about his client's telephone conversations with Rove before and after Plame's identity became publicly known because of anonymous disclosures by White House officials, according to two sources familiar with the conversation.

Fitzgerald is considering charging Rove with making false statements in the course of the 22-month probe, and sources close to Rove--whose titles are senior adviser and White House deputy chief of staff--said they expect to know within weeks whether the most powerful aide in the White House will be accused of a crime. ...
Fitzgerald made clear to Rove's attorney in private conversations last week that his client remains under investigation. And he signaled the same in his indictment of Libby on Friday, in which he identified a senior White House official who had conversations related to the Plame leak as ``Official A.'' White House colleagues say Rove is clearly ``Official A'' based on the detailed description.
<snip>

<snip>
According to sources who were made aware of the conservation, Fitzgerald has been speaking with Cooper's attorney, Richard Sauber, by telephone in the past three days. He is said to have posed several questions to clarify whether Cooper had other conversations with Rove before and after the crucial July 12, 2003, discussion during which Cooper said Rove told him that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA.

The aim was apparently to discern how common conversations were between Rove and the reporter, then a newcomer to the White House beat. Sauber, reached at his office late yesterday, declined to comment on any conversations he had with the prosecutor's team.
<snip>

[SHRED]

1. Oh Shit! ;)

[goforit]

2. I would hope he is still being investigated.

And I would hope it is more than just the Plame leak.

[Zen]

3. Rove absolutely, positively MUST go

There are no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Bush said he will have to go if he was involved, he was. He must go. Nevermind the legal and ethical implications. HE. MUST. GO. NOW.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Exactly

First Bush said if anyone is caught being involved they would be fired. Now we know Rove was involved he should be fired. :mad:

[Dulcinea]

36. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

If & when Rove goes, we'll see this house of cards fall spectacularly. Boy George can't wipe his ass without Rove.

[madokie]

51. And take the boss* with you on your way out

The whole bunch of 'em is smelling the place up. I guess the bush* cabal are trying to lower the bar to the point that no self respecting person will want to be associated with the Whitehouse.

bush*

[lovuian]

4. He's going its just a matter of time!!! Fritz will knock off one by one

every two weeks!!!

[Surya Gayatri]

46. Yes, I think we'll be treated

to a real 'Fitz-feast' for several weeks/months to come, watching the "Untouchable One" slashing his righteous way through the BushCorp cabal--one rock-solid indictment at a time. SG

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[deadparrot]

5. Excellent news!

Every little thing helps, and a Rove indictment would be HUGH!!!1111111

[DeepModem Mom]

6. Does this indicate that Fitz is still at work -- didn't take a vacay?

I was just wondering if we'd had any reports of his whereabouts, or what he's up to this week.

[kurth]

7. Why is Rove still on the government payroll?

This is the question every American and every reporter should be asking the White House.

[jobycom]

18. Michael Brown is still on the government payroll. Disgrace and treason

are pluses on the resume at BushCo.

[nolabels]

32. Disgrace and treason, * is still on the government payroll

x(

[lonestarnot]

48. Agree! The wardrobe god! Thought he wanted to quit!

x(

[mod mom]

50. After today's email releases Dems should demand he be OFF the PAYROLL!

[ktowntennesseedem]

41. As long as their buddies have a heartbeat, they'll get a paycheck.

No, wait a minute. Cheney doesn't have a heartbeat, and he's still on the payroll. Damn, I don't know what it takes to fired over there.

:shrug:

[Catrina]

42. I do, tell the truth. That's what got Larry Lindsey fired

and Paul O'Neill ~

[ktowntennesseedem]

43. My bad! I forgot all about the truth--that WOULD get you fired.

Of course, so few people in this crooked administration are even capable of telling the truth (they've told so many lies they have no idea of reality anyway), there aren't many in jeopardy of losing the jobs right now.

[Mme. Defarge]

56. Remember the beginning of Libby's indictment?

It starts off with reference to a confidentiality agreement he signed as an employee of this administration. This means that Rove has undoubtedly signed one as well.

So, now that it is known the Rove is "Mr. A" -- the person who disclosed Valerie Wilson's identity as a CIA agent to Robert Novak -- it seems obvious that Rove has violated the terms of his employment. This disclosure of confidential information has not only caused harm to Valerie Wilson and her family, it has also damaged the CIA's intelligence capabilities, and therefore our nation.

If the Wilsons are considering a civil lawsuit as a result of the damage done to Mrs. Wilson, why can't we, the citizens of the United States, file a class action lawsuit against Mr. Bush and Mr. Card for negligent retention of an employee who has damaged the nation as a result of his gross misconduct, not to mention reckless disregard, depraved indifference, etc.?

[Hissyspit]

8. Hope this is accurate. Nominated.

It would be so unfair of reality/providence/fate/the universe/karma/whatthef*ckever to let Rove go free.

[99Pancakes]

9. Then we impeach Bush.

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Cool chances of another shiny gift under the tree

I love it!

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. Rove has been trying to make deals

His nuts are in a serious cracker for the shit he'd pulled...and not just over the war. There are plenly of wounded on the road to the White House that he's directly responsible for. Plenty of people ready to come out of the woodwork on Rove's dirty dealings dating back 20 or 30 years!

Now, he's trying to figure out how to save his ass while still protecting Bush and Cheney. His lawyer's been spinning deals and trying to plea bargain.

Anyone noticed that report have all been he'd "cooperating"?

[Maven]

12. K/R nt

[flyarm]

13. bye bye rove...

bye bye so long..farewell...
bye by so long...

have a good time ..but remember , there is danger ...in a prison for your lies....


will we see you.... in that prison...or loose you to suicide??

bye bye ..so long ...farewell...bye bye so long............


fly

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[fooj]

22. Yikes! In a festive mood?

:spray:

[JohnnyCougar]

14. Nothing new.

This is good news, but it is obviously nothing new. I always thought Rove was going to be indicted within a week or two, anyways. It appears that Karl bought some time last week, but I always seriously doubted that he was out of trouble.

In retrospect, it is better that Rove and Libby be indicted seperately. Number one, this spreads the bad news for Bush out over a longer period of time, and number two, all the conservative talking heads saying that this is just an isolated incident are now on record. They will be proven fools when Rove is indicted also.

[jobycom]

19. The "new" part is that the WP is reporting it after all the spin that Rove

had been cleared. I agree with you: nothing new, and it might work best this way.

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. Good!

It is about damn time this came out.

How long before you think Rove will be indicted?

Also must be true that there is a sealed indictment still to come out.

As always DU always knew the truth! :)

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Maybe they're reporting it

because it'll be happening soon? :shrug: Hey a girl can dream!

[Marie26]

45. Why did Fitzgerald wait to indict Rove?

Any ideas or wild speculations? Maybe he was just strengthening his case - but he could have done that anyway after the indictment. :shrug:

[libertypirate]

16. You know what would be nice....

Breaking: (Novak/Rove/Cheney/Bush)'s attorney has been arrested for revealing the proceedings of a SECRET grand jury.

Oh wait that hasn't happened why? Because they haven't revealed the proceedings of a grand jury...

Which means they are building cover for when the truth is known. You'll know when the press does because you'll hear it from Fitzgerald.

[writes2000]

17. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa! This sentence has my attention....

"The prosecutor spoke this week with the lawyer for Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper about his client's telephone conversations with Rove before AND AFTER Plame's identity became publicly known because of anonymous disclosures by White House officials, according to two sources familiar with the conversation."

The emphasis (capitalization) above is mine.

Did Rove & Cooper talk AFTER Plame was outed? Who called who? What was said?

Isn't this notion of a call after the outing potentially new news?

[Hissyspit]

20. This is definitely not over. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. But, but, but many told us it was over because

only one got indicted.

;-)

I wonder if Fitz people are also trying to turn our boy (Scoot)

[jobycom]

21. Hmmm

Of course Rove could talk to Cooper after the leak, no reason he couldn't. But then, why would Fitzgerald question him about it?

The only answers I can think of are coverup, conspiracy and obstruction. Otherwise, Fitzgerald has no reason to talk about it.

[writes2000]

26. If Rove had a follow up talk with Cooper at any time that year

or anytime Rove "stumbled upon" that email that helped him "remember" his talk with Cooper, then Rove is further screwed.

His attorney is pointing to the lame, "he talked to Andy Card, didn't mention it and then prompty forgot" excuse.

I wonder if Rove said something else to Cooper.

Or if Rove talked to Cooper about other issues but never identified any other info as "will soon be unclassified."

[ignatzmouse]

35. Rove Spinning a Web Back Onto Himself

Fitzgerald may be weighing the veracity of Rove's testimony of his knowledge and statements before the "outing" against his actions immediately after the "outing" as witnessed by his exhortation to Chris Matthews that Plame was "fair game." In other words, it was a full White House game plan to engage reporters to spin Wilson as a "pussy-whipped" dope after the Novak column appeared. Novak was fed the information from the vice president's office, and then the entire WH Communications Office, Rove, Libby, etc. immediately waged spin and attack following the story. It doesn't jive with someone (Rove) saying her name and identity weren't important and just slipped his mind so he can't be held accountable for "mis-remembering" things.

[mod mom]

53. That "FAIR GAME" statement has always stood out as incriminating.

Let's hope it comes back to haunt turd blossom!

[Straight Shooter]

24. Toles' toon captures it pretty well. The Treason Matrix, Part II.

[tuvor]

28. Toles is amazing.

He's like the William Tell of editorial cartoons, almost always hitting the bullseye. Or apple.

Aw, you know what I mean.

[rmgustaf]

47. That is a heaping helping of awesome sauce. n/t

[Justice Is Comin]

29. It was my hunch

that it would be the newspapers and the congress that would really get this bob sled going after Fitz waxed up the runners.

Look out below!!


Coffee anyone ?

[Leopolds Ghost]

30. Cut a deal, Karl

Give us Bush.

There is some good left in you, my son. You confessed to that Fortunate Son guy... Now turn over the Emperor... It is your destiny.

[yodermon]

38. re: fortunate son

and even that was a scam, wasn't it? Didn't he poison the well even as he was spilling the beans to Hatfield?

Never mind what happend to Hatfield, of course :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

31. C/mon Fitzie..lock the ratbastard up.. He's too evil to roam free

[Disturbed]

33. I strongly suspect that Cheney will retire to...

spend more time with his family.

[johnnydrama]

34. cooper

What he wants to know is how frequently Rove talked to cooper.

Was the time he leaked Plame to Cooper the first time he ever talked to Cooper.

Wouldn't that look really weird, and guilty if he just called a brand new reporter out of the blue and leaked information to him.

Maybe he thought Cooper was to new to the scene to understand the full scope, and maybe wouldn't talk since he didn't want to be in a controversial situation so soon.

[NNN0LHI]

37. But I thought it was all over?

Alright I am joking.

Don

[stop the bleeding]

39. Bye bye turdblossom !!!

see yah

[Hubert Flottz]

40. Poor old KKKarl...

And a good job is damned hard to find nowdaze. Maybe Fitz knows where KKKarl can find a job.

[lonestarnot]

49. He doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his

balls! What organization would hire him? Gotti is out of business.

[Hubert Flottz]

55. He will soon be doing swamp reclamation and road work IMO.

If he gives Bubba any static, Bubba will knock KKKarl's d**k in his watch-pocket.

[lonestarnot]

59. LOL

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. The ETHICAL DIVIDE between comments on Rove from WH and Dems is clear:

Quotes from spokespeople from the WaPo article in the OP:

From WH:
Nicolle Wallace (White House communications director) claimed that there have been no White House meetings to discuss Rove's fate and that he is actively engaged and "doing an outstanding job." She said "there is no debate" over Rove's future.

That is clearly a misleading statement: "not been any WH meetings" to discuss Rove's fate. You can bet that it's a leading topic of talks, whether official meetings have been called specifically to discuss it or not. As for the claim that there is "no debate" over what to do about Rove, I imagine that is referring to a very selective, small group of people centered around Bush. Outside that tiny ingrown group there must be intensive discussion on how to limit Bush's political liability from Rove and his central involvement in Treasongate. Indeed, the first sentence of the WaPo article makes that clear:
"Top White House aides are privately discussing the future of Karl Rove, with some expressing doubt that President Bush can move beyond the damaging CIA leak case as long as his closest political strategist remains in the administration."

The true priority of the WH - political advantage, not anything to do with ethics or national security - are very clear in this statement from "a GOP strategist who has discussed the issue with top White House officials":
"Karl does not have any real enemies in the White House, but there are a lot of people in the White House wondering how they can put this behind them if the cloud remains over Karl. You can not have that start as long as Karl is there."


From a statement to Bush by Dems Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi:
"It is totally unacceptable that anyone involved in the unauthorized disclosure of the identity of a CIA officer, including your Deputy Chief of Staff, Karl Rove, should remain employed at the White House with a security clearance."


Surely anyone - Dem, Repub or Indep - who gives a damn about the country can see which of these viewpoints is good for the nation and which is not. And who in their right mind would be satisfied by Rove’s merely issuing an apology, as this article indicates is being discussed as an actual possibility within the WH? As if anything he says could be trusted.


If Bush were not so dependent on Rove's constant Svengali hovering, he'd already be gone. But Toles captured how it is:

[DistressedAmerican]

52. This Is My Favority Part Of The Article

"...wondering how they can put this behind them if the cloud remains over Karl,"

Keep wondering asshats. the longer he stays the more damage he does. Keep Him!

[blonndee]

54. Woo woo!! I was almost afraid to hope... n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

57. Just so you know, Rove's security clearance is now ILLEGAL - it's the LAW

Not that the WH has admitted this, but the law is clear. It's an active executive order signed by Clinton and it's all spelled out. Rove's situation clearly fits in the category where security clearance MUST BE REVOKED. And without security clearance, Rove's usefulness to Bush would be limited.

A Newsweek online-only article explaining this law - Executive Order 12958 - is currently cited in a thread on the DU home page.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5245705
thread title (11/2): Newsweek: Is Rove a Security Risk?

How long until the WH is forced to obey this law? Or can Bush rescind it? If he did, it would surely not go over well, but he is desperate for Rove's "help":

[Nothing Without Hope]

58. BTW, this same WaPo article is on the Home Page under a different title:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1896609
thread title (11/3): WP: Rove's Future Role Is Debated, White House May Seek Fresh Start...

Good discussion in both threads, and both are on the Greatest Page.

[Ksec]

60. Fitz is giving Libby time to spew

itll make the case easier