What do YOU believe in? THAT should be the patform.

[Armstead]

Writing this after someone posted about how awful the Green party is, and that Democrats should not allow themselves to be blackmailed to follow their positions.

Also be the posts that gingerly analyze whether Democrats should go to the "center" or go a little bit "left" or become truly "liberal" or all-out "progressive" again. Anbd which candidates are the exact right proportion to satisfy that.

I have one word for this kind of thinking. BULLSHIT.

Okay, I'll admit I indulge in these stupid label games myself sometimes. But we gotta stop thinking that way so much. We gotta start formulating what beliefs we have in common and fight for that in the arena.

What do you believe in? What issues are important to you? What solutions do you favor? What current trends are you opposed to?

THAT's what you should advocate for and support as the Democratic platform or candidates. Screw the damn tactics and horse race about what is "left" "right" or "center."

Accept the fact that maybe you aren;t as weird as the media and political hacks make you out to be. Accept that maybe your concerns are shared by at least a slight majority of average people.

I'm not saying strategy isn't important. But when strategy trumps substance, all you are doing is playing a defensive game. And if all you focus on is keeping the other team from scoring, you're own team will never score.

Are your views closest to the "centrists" like Joe L? Or does Dennis K's views ring your chimes? Do Sharpton's opinions resonate with you? Or Edwards? Etc....Whatever it is, THAT's what you ought to push for. And who you support.



Let's think about ideas, and what we want to see happen. And use that as the basis of our positions and strategies. We may not agree on all of thge fine points, but at least the differences will be honest ones.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Which platform, which candidate, will cause fewer deaths?

That is the reality of what it has come to.

Those who favor fewer deaths should concentrate on that.

It is far from likely that a political solution is possible regardless, in fact, the chances are slim to none.

For those whose faith traditions include the voting process, and who wish to make a gesture, the best you can hope to do is choose that which will result in the smallest loss of life.

[Darranar]

4. Pessimistic, yes...

accurate, probably.

[Armstead]

6. I totally disagree

I think the solution CAN be political. Politics is what got us into this mess -- or more accurately the LACK of real politics.

To be perfectly honest -- We haven't had any real attempts at a political solution for years. That's part of the problem.

Our side has been taken over by the calclating machines and corporate prostitutes who masquerade as strategists or politicians.

[DuctapeFatwa]

15. You are correct that there has been no attempt at a political solution

And that lack of effort has allowed the situation to progress to the extreme circumstances in which we, as earth residents, now find ourselves, which in my opinion, has reduced the likelihood of a political solution to near zero.

[MuseRider]

2. Thank you.

I play the games, I hate them but there I am. You are right, we must figure this out. Now, how do we all draw together to make this work? Is it even possible anymore? I am beginning to worry that there is too much anger right now. I hope that will pass. Good post.

[Armstead]

5. If we focused more on what we all agree on....

that's at least be a start. We'd likely find that some of the differences are more of degree or pace than actual goals.

[Upfront]

3. Ideas

I think we need to tax companys who go off shore to manafacture on goods they ship back into this country. Companys who move there head quaters off shore to avoid paying taxes in the US should not be allowed to sell there products in the US.

[Armstead]

7. Actually that used to be the norm

That's the basis of tariffs and the laws that the Korporate klass is now trying to change.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Armstead]

10. Well we could argue about personalities too, if you want

That's fun. But maybe just see that as recreation. :)

[RichM]

13. Oh good. Then it's OK with me.

As long as no one is going to take away my fun & recreation. :-)

[Armstead]

14. I wouldn't dream of it

[RichM]

25. Jesus H. Christ. The censorship here is really getting unbelievable.

The above post was "removed by moderator." I remember that post well. I wrote it, and it was a friendly, altogether benign (and, if I may say so), fairly amusing little ditty. Why on God's Green Earth it had to be "removed," shall remain evermore a mystery.... :eyes:

[Clete]

9. Announce a war against the fascist Stalinism

that has ursurped our country. I know there are so many other issues but they have been rendered sterile by the Bush coupe of 2000 so our primary agenda is to get our country back by voting out any and all Republicans running. Then we can get back to work on issues and repairing the diplomatic damage done by Bush and his minions. We, as a nation, will never be truly safe if we don't.

[SOteric]

11. I agree.

I've been thinking along similar lines while trying to integrate some issues at work which are almost a parable for what you describe.

A string of managers have come and gone in our department. The last three had problems with the numbers the department turns every month. The third of whom dicked around with the numbers until they looked good. The department was still hemoraging cash, but the numbers looked good.

Manager number 3 put together a report that told all the right people what they wanted to hear but had no basis in reality. This number looked low, that number looked high, those numbers looked balanced and the result of the numbers should have been that we were making cash hand over fist. I can't believe how long it took anyone to realise that we weren't. The department won praise, bonuses and awards all based on the trust placed in the verity of those end of the month documents. All of which were myths, flimsy calculations, legends and outright lies.

Now it's my job to dig through the specious accounting pervasive in the department and make it real. I assure you its no picnic.

It won't be a picnic to undo specious legislation, policy, wars, and empires that are built on myths, flimsy calculations, legends and outright lies about what the people want, either.

It's government by the people. Or at least it's supposed to be.

[jiacinto]

12. More college finanical aid and better educational funding

A higher minnimum wage
financial aid to families for health care costs

[Armstead]

16. Those are good

Though I'd go farther than financial aid and say univertsal access to affordable health care to everyone.

[Thomas Jefferson]

17. I believe in cancelling NAFTA and bringing jobs back. I believe in

getting the U.S. out of Vietnam (or rather Iraq) and the U.N. in. I believe in stopping the looting of our treasury and I believe in stopping the theft of the $87 billion now. I believe in ending a racist death penalty that is nothing more than a way of killing off poor minority targets of police abuse. I believe in a living wage and not just a minimum wage. I believe in single-payer quality health care that covers everyone and pays the doctors well. I believe in an end to USA PATRIOT. I believe in going back to the days the Democratic Party followed its soul and an end to the Republicanizing of our Party.

[Armstead]

19. Pretty good list, IMO

Especially the last item.}(

[hippywife]

18. I believe

in everything in DK's platform. That's why I support him. It's such a refreshing change to be able to say that!! :)

[Mountainman]

20. Repeal tax cuts for wealthy and allow write off of consumer debt interest

One of the best deductions we use to have was the deduction for interest on consumer debt. That would give a tax cut to the middle class since most of us are in debt up to our eyeballs.

And those who are getting wealthy because of Iraq should pay the taxes that support that fiasco.

[RichM]

21. Some Suggested Principles

- Volubly opposing the domination of US policy by the military-industrial-media complex. Cutting Pentagon spending. Education of the public as to where the dollars wind up after they're sent to the Pentagon
- An explicit anti-plutocracy stance. The proclamation that democracy cannot co-exist with plutocracy. Publicly analyzing ALL public policy questions in terms of their effects on different social classes.
- relentless portrayal of the Bush regime not as mere "political opponents" with whom Democrats have "differences of opinion"; not as mere opponents who have offered "flawed policy" -- but as gangsters, liars and criminals, who stole an election, coddled corporate criminals, & lied us into an illegal war to funnel Treasury funds to cronies
- demand the breakup of media giants, explicitly making the case, with plentiful examples from everyday life, that they are intrinsically anti-democratic and have turned our political discourse into '1984.'
- single-payer universal health insurance for all Americans
- Zero tolerance for GOP fear tactics. For example, retaliating in coordinated fashion against outrages like Cheney's Friday speech. Using its text & video clips as a teaching aid, to deluge the Sunday talk shows with a pointed exposure of the speech's blatant fear-mongering.
- Every time Democrats speak of Bush, they should be pointing out how Enron was his biggest benefactor; how Halliburton is getting fat no-bid contracts; how no Enron executives have been indicted. The theme should be relentless portrayal of criminals engaged in massive looting.
- A coordinated exposure against all the foxes Bush has placed in charge of various henhouses. A public education campaign to explain to people that big corporations & environmental quality have instrinsic conflicts, & reading from the record to demonstrate that Bush functions as an agent of the corporations on every environmental question. Self-parodying policy names like "The Clean Skies Act" should not prove too difficult to ridicule in the public mind.

In all, the aim should not be simply to "campaign against and (hopefully) defeat President Bush." It should be to destroy him, & to obliterate the social forces that made a repulsive phenomenon like him possible.

[Armstead]

22. But what do you REALLY think, Rich?

As usual, I wouldn't put it quite as strongly as you, but your basic points are certainly true.

I do wish we'd all be moe willing to get below the bi-partisan big lies, like "POwerful Corporate Monopolies are Good for You." Many people sense how f'd up the system is, but they don't get any validation for their gut feelings. And no sense that anyone is on their side.

[Yupster]

23. No Enron executives have been indicted?

Some of them have already plead guilty. Do they count?

[RichM]

24. I stand corrected; some have indeed been indicted.

I believe it to be true that none of the big fish are in serious imminent jeopardy. But a web search shows that quite a number of the company's former executives have been charged with fraud.