Rove not indicted = Libby convicted -----> Cheney is future toast

[mtnsnake]

Because Libby got indicted and Rove didn't YET, all that tells me is that Fitzgerald wasn't 100% sure that an indictment right now would get Rove convicted. He likes being sure, and he even said that. The fact that he doesn't have quite enough evidence YET to indict Rove tells me that he's positive Libby is gonna be proven guilty. That's a good thing.

So....because Rove didn't get indicted yesterday, and Libby did, that means one of two things is going to happen. Libby is either going to take the rap for someone else & serve a lot of years in jail, or he's gonna sing about who REALLY told him to leak the info about Valerie Plame. Either way, Libby or someone higher than him is going down. When the reality hits Libby square in his face, I doubt he's gonna take the rap. By singing, he'll probably get his sentence cut in half.

Dick Cheney, here we come!

[FARAFIELD]

1. I WISH IT WAS TRUE

But it was like my post months ago and then a few days ago. Scooter lied just enough And rove only talked to COoper and AGAIN the Bush weenies got out of it. We needed ROVE to get indicted to keep the story alive. The General public doesnt give a shit. Also on NPR yesterday they had someone on that worked for years with Fitz and is a federal prosecutor, and he said that ROVE was "pretty much" off the hook AND that Scooter will "probably" plea bargain without having to give anything or anyone UP. Hate to be pessimisstic but the Bush getting away with shit will continue. The only hope is that the Mainstream press runs with the LINK to cheney but a few months from now we will be the only ones talking about it. It sucks but that seems to be the case

[mtnsnake]

4. "The General public doesnt give a shit". This time that that doesnt matter

What the general public thinks right now has no bearing on what happens to Rove or Libby, et al. There will be no vote taken on this. What matters is one thing only: Patrick Fitzgerald's aim to put people away for crimes.

[NanceGreggs]

8. Given what Fitz believes (or, more likely, knows) ...

... about what went on here, he will NEVER let Libby off with a plea bargain clearly aimed to shield another individual (or individuals).

Fitz did not spend two years of his life just to watch it all go up in smoke with a 'lesser' sentence that gets the real culprit(s) off the hook.

If Fitz would have been satisfied with such a course of action, he didn't have to indict Libby in the first place. He could have gone to Libby's lawyers and offered a deal, then charged him with the lesser charges and left it at that.

Fitz is the REAL DEAL -- and no one who is guilty is going to walk away from this.

Patience, my friends, patience.

[fasttense]

12. I don't agree with that because that is not Fitzgerald's MO.

His work in Illinois is very illustrative of Fitzgerald's style. He indicted the staffers then he got the Governor on 22 counts. It's just that Fitzgerald is very slow and thorough. He has to look under every rock before he goes for indictments. He has to try and turn every witness before he goes for the next guy.

I use to work for a guy who did investigations very similar to Fitzgerald. I thought it was maddening because we had "enough" evidence but not "all" the evidence. My boss would always make me go out and get "all" the evidence. But we rarely lost a case.

[NanceGreggs]

2. I don't care how 'loyal' you are to a party ...

... and its players. NO ONE is going to sit out the rest of their prime years in prison to shield someone else. End of discussion.

[Straight Shooter]

5. Not necessarily true.

The Mafia counted on loyalty to keep its operation going. The bush maladministration is composed of thugs who count on loyalty to keep their operation going. I truly question whether Libby, in his prime or not, will turn on his masters.

He's in a very bad spot. No matter what he does, he loses. Even if he reveals information that Fitzgerald wants, how long do you think he'll last outside of prison if Cheney is indicted? These people are nasty and they play for keeps.

[NanceGreggs]

11. It's true that the Mafia counts on loyalty ...

... but then the Mafia tends to recruit from a much better class of people than BU$HCO does.

And there's ALWAYS at least one 'Joe Vallachi' in the crowd!!!!

[Straight Shooter]

13. "better class of people"

LOL.

Seriously, though, Libby is a very intense person. He may even have grandiose ideas that he, and he alone, will determine the fate of the world, and that he is playing the role of a noble martyr by sacrificing himself on the Cheney altar.

We'll have to see. Were I in his position, I would plead guilty to everything, go to prison, and wait for a pardon with the hope that the sleeping public will overlook it, just as the Iran-Contra figures were pardoned.

[NanceGreggs]

14. I doubt that he's the 'martyr' type ...

Besides, Libby has been an insider with this group for years, i.e. he knows that they'll renege on the promise of an impending pardon if it seems 'politically inexpedient' to do it. With those ever-falling poll numbers and the Republican party itself splitting into factions, a pardon is not going to seem like a good idea -- and Libby knows it.

He has also seen the worst of this admin group get their just desserts for lying, cheating, etc. Condi got her promotion, Rummy's 'resignation' (which he obviously hands in daily) is always 'not accepted'. People like Brownie get cushy, high-paid positions, and the Harriets of the world get a SCOTUS nomination.

Do you really think Scooter will settle for an orange jumpsuit and a PROMISE of a pardon after throwing himself on the sword?

I seriously doubt it. This is, when all is said and done, a group of in-it-for-themselves people who will, when their turn comes, inevitably take what THEY can get, regardless of who gets screwed.

[Straight Shooter]

15. I don't know Libby or his psychological makeup.

I haven't watched him on TV because I don't watch TV and so his body language and tone of voice are not part of my assessment, and I can't really speculate too much what he will or won't do. However, he does seem to have (from what I've read of him) a rather obsessive type of personality; who knows how far he'll go to protect the "cause."

I just don't want to pin any hopes on Libby's future actions. If he cracks, so much the better. But if he doesn't, I'm counting on Fitzgerald to fortify his case by other means.

If anyone squeals, it will be Rove. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he hasn't already done so. Fitzgerald held a Friday morning meeting with bush's attorney, Sharp. Perhaps Rove said something inadvertently which puts bush in jeopardy, in which case Libby might lose whatever leverage his knowledge would have with Fitzgerald.

What a mess.

[NanceGreggs]

16. Yes, he's been referred to repeatedly ...

... by everyone involved as being 'totally obsessed' with getting Wilson, etc. I'm sure that's why Cheney chose him to 'disseminate' the information on Plame -- there's nothing like a dog-with-a-bone mentality to get the job done.

That's exactly why I think he'll squeal like a stuck pig. As he contemplates a prison term, he'll start to think (obsessively) about the people who put him in that position. Paranoia is often a by-product of obsessiveness ...

[Straight Shooter]

17. Interesting analysis.

You could be right about him beginning to obsess as he licks his wounds and comes to the realization that he is the scapegoat, and it finally dawns on him that everyone who aided and abetted him are going on with their lives as if he never existed.

My hope is he'll turn on Rove, not Cheney.

[mtnsnake]

9. Exactly, not you, not me, not Libby. And they're especially not gonna

sit out those years if there's someone else from above who told them to leak the news. Afterall, Scooter has his good name to protect, too, eh? ;)

[ClassWarrior]

3. Remember...

...If Bush** had any dignity at all, he'd resign now and spare the nation the shame.

NGU.

[prescole]

6. I second that emotion

If there were no more charges in the offing, Fitzgerald probably wouldn't be empaneling a new grand jury. By indicting Libby and not Rove, Fitzgerald hopes to bolster a case against Rove, and maybe to find out how high up this goes.
So far, the Bush higher-ups have dodged responsibility for all the torture; Rumsfeld has actually been rewarded for incompetence.
I think this is just the beginning.

[brainshrub]

7. Dream on.

I hold that Libby's indictment was a huge victory for the BFEE. By the time Fitz gets around to getting the paperwork for the next crony, a new Republican administration will pardon everyone.

And yes, the Republicans will win again in 2008 until the sell-out Dems are replaced with people who will take BBV seriously.

[kohodog]

10. It seems the Rove/Bush faction won round one.

Time will tell if Libby turns on Rove and W. Regardless, who would be surprised if Cheney came out of his bunker and had a "spell" and had to resign due to poor health.