Serious Suggestion for MODS: GD: CIA Leak Case: Gloom and Doom

[emulatorloo]

I am interested in keeping up on the latest news, DU thinking on legal ramifications, DU calls for activism re media and congress, and blogosphere thinking about what happens next. The Gloom and Doom stuff seems to be weighing down the regular CIA Leak Case forum, at least for me, and there isn't a real easy way to avoid it, as thread titles seldom include "Woe is me, Abandon all Hope!" (although a few do.)

Thanks!

--------------------------

ON EDIT- I am not the greatest writer, so I see I need to clarify

to clarify I am talking about WE ARE DOOMED ABANDON ALL HOPE threads that aren't substantive analysis but just emotional venting. Others have pointed out that there are similar OVEROPTIMISTIC threads w/o substantive info. So I can modify my orig request to GD: CIA LEAK CASE: EEYORES and POLLYANAS if you like

I am not suggesting a "ban" on pessimistic "opinion" or any kind of "opinion". (Although I have never been one for "opinion" w/o at least a modicum of supporting evidence.)

I am just wanting a way to not have to slog through the Support Group type stuff to read the news, activist, analysis stuff. Maybe I am dreaming.

[Caoimhe]

1. I second that!

:applause:

[Mr_Spock]

68. I third that!!!!!!!

:D

[TahitiNut]

2. Heaven forbid someone rains on a parade with a different perspective, huh?

:eyes:

[emulatorloo]

3. Gloom and Doom isn't a "perspective" - it is emotional response

EOM

[TahitiNut]

6. Ahhh... the sound of a mind slamming shut. Awesome!

:eyes: Is there a sale on broad brushes somewhere???

[emulatorloo]

12. No Gloom and Doom post I have seen contains analysis, just unsupported

claims about 1) Fitz lack of integrity 2) Karl Rove's Gleeful Emotional State Because he Got Away with It 3) Unshakeable Faith That "They" Are All Going To Get Away With It" etc etc.

The posts aren't backed up with facts or history. Sometimes they are backed up with funhouse mirror versions of the rw talking points. Or an acceptance that RW talking points are going to rule the public discourse. When Facts or history are used as rebuttal to the gloom and doom posts, the poster responds with Feelings or Intuitions of Gloom and Doom.

I have read your posts in the past and I havent seen these kinds of things in your posts.

[TahitiNut]

30. 99% of posts on DU these days are logic-free assertions.

If not more. If I were to reject a perspective solely based on lack of analysis, logic, or argument ... I'd abandon DU.

"OMIGOSH! Gotta hurry up and post! No time to read! No time to research! No time to use logic! Me too! Me too! Me too!"

The noise level is abominable. The notion that the means bcomes the ends is alive and well. The means (posting) has become the end. The former 'end' (information, logic, argument) has gone from critical to terminal. This is becoming an echo chamber. Dissent is punished.

Inviting the Admin/Moderators to ENFORCE a 'politically correct' perspective is abominable.

How about asking Mods/Admin to OUTLAW one-liners? How about asking that subject-only be banned? How about asking that any post less than 100 owrds and more than 1,000 words be banned?
:eyes:

[emulatorloo]

36. How about a ban on the Eye-Roll smilie?

;-)

Don't seeing anything in my OP or others asking the mods to ENFORCE any perspective. Just asking for a separate CIA LEAK forum for contentless emotional negative responses.

[TahitiNut]

41. Segregation IS enforcement!!

There was NOTHING in your (orginal unedited) OP about 'contentless' or 'analysis-free' -- and you solely focused on the perspective of the post, NOT the validity.

You now run for cover and claim you only want "Separate But Equal"???

How difficult is it for a "liberal" to comprehend the ethical bankruptcy of that posturing???

:eyes: <-- it's called an emoticon - aptly so

[emulatorloo]

51. Then all DU categories must go

Gungeon Mac Users Lounge Religion LBN etc all in a big undiffrentiated stew

you are over-reading if you posit me as the enemy of free speech or requiring that all posts I don't agree w be banned. There is nothing in my (original unedited) original post that suggest that.

Quite frankly the term GLOOM AND DOOM implies contentless and analysis free pessimism -- but as the thread went on I see I needed to clarify. So I did.

[TahitiNut]

53. See ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2192400


If anyone is so totally obtuse that the distinction isn't abundantly clear, then no amount of discussion (without the use of a 2x4 over the skull) can be sufficient.

Let me try to make something else clear. An expectation is a premeditated resentment! High expectations are mere preludes to deep disappointment. DU was overrun with the spin of high expectations in the lead up to "Fitzmas" (a label I oppose).

I have been very consistent during nearly four years on DU: The damage to our body politic cannot be cured by a single election, a single indictment, a single prosecution, or anything other than years and years of undoing the rampant corruption of the electorate itself!

Little disgusts me more than the Pollyanna "Everything Is Wonderful" (when such-and-such is done) cheer-leading. Creating the expectation that everything will be better and we can go back to sleep (and keep making the same mistakes) is one of the MOST DESTRUCTIVE attitudes that could be spread among "liberals."

We're at least TWENTY-FIVE years behind in the war for our nation. Nobody wearing a white hat and shooting silver bullets can do the job for us. Democracy is NOT a spectator sport.

So, let's be a little more circumspect about where the real damage is coming from, OK???

[emulatorloo]

54. I read DU for disagreements and analysis, activism and diff points of view

I am trying to figure out a way to not have to slog thru stuff that is only about emotional WE ARE ALL DOOMED ABANDON ALL HOPE. I am happy to amend it to Pollyanna stuff too.

I just want to get to the "good stuff" easier.

Surely you are able to see the difference between threads that are emotional outbursts/calls for emotional support and threads that are discussion, disagreement, analysis, activism.

[zanne]

71. And who is going to judge what is Gloom and Doom or Pollyana?

You?

[emulatorloo]

72. No -- the Poster. By Posting in GLOOM and DOOM

EOM

[akarnitz]

67. You MUST be kidding!

:eyes:

Seriously,though, I think it's alright if people post emotionally, one way or the other. If you want, ignore; if you can't ignore, fire back w/good info. And please remember, WE'RE the Big Tent Party.

[bluedawg12]

57. The board does move fast, but sometimes the me-too posts

are a sign of support from other DU'ers.

I agree with the idea of more research in the main thread.

However, I am for the free flow of info., we can find a diamond of a bright idea sometimes in the most unlikely places.

[bluedawg12]

58. If anyone wants a better researched thread- go for it!

I do "me too's" as a sign of support for the idea.

I do goofy threads to blow off steam and laugh as a break from shrubco.

I also get interested in asking questions and research topics and post about them. Even if the replies are nil to scant- I always hope that maybe some one read it and learned something, as I did.

So, don't moderate quality, post quality threads.

Peace

[ClassWarrior]

26. Hey pot - come and read the kettle's post!!!

NGU.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. "Gloom And Doom" is an opinion...one you may not agree with.

Someone saying, I am not happy that it was only Libby, and I fear that this is the end of it Is an opinion. Perhaps worded with emotion, but an opinion nonetheless. One you happen not to agree with us.

Those of us who held the opinion last year that Kerry was not the best choice for President were called gloom and doomers based on the opinion we had. Make Sense?


Disclaimer: I am THrilled with the indictment, I just think that those who are not should be allowed their say on an OPINION board just the same. :hi:

[emulatorloo]

18. I am certainly not calling for a ban on GLOOM and DOOM -

Just an easy way for me to not have to slog through it. Sure everybody has their own opinion. Express away.

(PS I am not big on unsupported Opinions (that is, opinions with out good supporting evidence - which a lot of the doom and gloom posts appear to lack)

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I don't think so...Many were under the impression that there would

be more indictments...hence a little bit of disappointment with reason to support it. When they bother me, which they do, I hide them. So I have to click on them once.

We need Gloom and Doom threads whether we like them or not. A lot of Happy Happy Joy! Joy! threads can also appear to lack solid supporting evidence. Many would say they tend to surmise, therefore, promise too much.

[emulatorloo]

27. Point well taken -- How About CIA LEAK: Pollyanas and Eeyores

Unbridled optimism and Unbridled pessimism are certainly mirror images of each other. I guess what I am trying to say is I want to read the substantive stuff w/o having to slog through the emotional stuff. Not saying that the emotional stuff doesnt have its place.

[zanne]

70. Thank you! Thank you!

We all have to put up with posts we don't like.

[donco6]

11. There have been some good, reasoned arguments . . .

. . . against the elation many were expressing. They were not all emotional arguments.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Doesn't look to me like the OP is objecting to "good, reasoned arguments."

It looks like the OP is objecting to the psyops-style despair that the majority of the "gloom & doom" threads promote. Are you capable of seeing subtle differences like that? Or are you being purposely oblique?

NGU.

[emulatorloo]

19. Thank you for clarifying -- just unsupported despair type posts

And I don't necessarily think it is psyops. . .genuine outpouring of despair.

[TahitiNut]

33. Why just "unsupported DESPAIR"??? Why not "unsupported POLLYANNA"???

The litmus test seems to be one-sided!

[ClassWarrior]

34. Do you even bother to read before you post?? Look at post #27.

:eyes:

NGU.

[TahitiNut]

37. Do YOU???

Read the fucking Original Post! There's not a fucking thing about 'unsupported' or 'unexplained' or 'terse' or 'lacking logic'! Not one word! It's ENTIRELY about one and only one "tone" ... that of pessimism or, more correctly, anyone that's not doing what the CHEERLEADERS insist upon. Even WORSE, the OP calls for Admin/Moderator ENFORCEMENT ... merely because the person doesn't want to spend their precious time looking at and deciding they're not interested in the content?

This is a nonsense thread. Ridiculous! It's nothing more than someone asking that somebody else accommodate their tastes in posts - relieving them of the "burden" of making their own choices. The upshot, however, is to filter what others say and read as well! That's bullshit.

Even more ... (legitimate) "suggestions" to Admin/Moderators belong in email, not in discussion groups. I am, therefore, cynical about the INTENDED AUDIENCE and 'goal'.

[ClassWarrior]

39. Wow. Settle down big boy. If it's a nonsense thread, why...

...are you spending so much time responding to it?

By the way, you're right. There's "not one word" about those things in the original post. But it's obvious what the OP meant. Unless of course one is (a) thick, or (2) playing legalistic word games to put a DUer with whom one disagrees on the defensive - despite the fact that the OP has gone out of his way to clarify his meaning.

NGU.

[TahitiNut]

44. Ironic. Let's have "Whites Only" forums and "Blacks Only" forums.

Instead of 'discussion' of opposing viewpoints, let's SEGREGATE posts with differing viewpoints into SEPARATE (but equal??) forums!

How much has to be spelled out for ANYONE to even remotely comprehend the utter INSANITY of this bullshit??

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

48. "Civilly?" You mean like post #37: "Read the fucking Original Post!" ??

NGU.

[TahitiNut]

49. After a "Do you even bother" attack, it's a moderate response, ******!

Got it yet?

[ClassWarrior]

50. Why are you fighting so hard to defend despair and aggression?

NGU.

[TahitiNut]

52. Clue: Do you realize that questioning my MOTIVES is a personal attack?

Nevermind that your post totally mischaracterizes my position. Nevermind that your posts ignored the point regarding SEGREGATION in lieu of DISCUSSION to be a specious goal. Nevermind that your attempts to focus on messenger instead of message is a logical IRRELEVANCY. How many clues do you need?

[emulatorloo]

43. see my post 27 and 19

EOM

[donco6]

22. I think you mean obtuse.

Oblique would refer to a slanted theory, coming from an unusual perspective.

And yes, I can see subtle differences.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Thank you. Obtuse.

NGU.

[emulatorloo]

28. I like good reasoned arguments on all sides of an issue. . .

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Not Allowed!!!! Not Allowed!!! We must all abandon the term

Fitzmas!!!! We must all be happy all the time, every day with how things go. Although I am on the happy side of this event, there are times when I have needed to vent my struggles to remain a Democrat. Whatever happened to opinions being set forth on an opinion board???


Mike!!!!! :hug:

[TahitiNut]

8. (grin)

Laura!!! :hug: :loveya:

It's the same ol' "my way or the highway" 'ideology' - heaven forbid that anyone think past their "conclusions" (the booby prize of learning).

[Mr_Spock]

66. Heaven forbid another DU'er has a different "perspective" than you!

It's a circular argument of "my ideas are better than yours" and "see how many agree with me". Seems highly unproductive.

[TahitiNut]

74. Sheer sophistry.

You're using rhetorical constructs to speciously infer equivalences that just don't exist in the content.

Look it up. :eyes:

[emulatorloo]

38. There is nothing in any of my posts here that says "NOT ALLOWED"

Thanks!

[Mr_Spock]

64. Hyperbole.

Missing the point entirely - as most of the overreacters are want to do here. Give me the predictable lashing since I dared to disagree with YOUR perspective :eyes:

[Mr_Spock]

62. It's not a perspective, it's a LACK of perspective that leads to Doom and

Gloom.

Clearly if one puts things into perspective, this is all good - even if we had hoped for more. A high-ranking WH official hasn't been indicted for 130+ years!! And the long-term outlook is always better than the short-term - another "perspective" issue.

[zanne]

69. Are you sure this is "Democratic" Underground?

Ach Tung!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

9. Maybe the operative word is "was"?

I guess it depnds on what the meaning of "was" is?? :evilgrin:


Welcome to DU! :hi:

[obsqueesha]

14. LOL!

Thanks for the welcome!

[donco6]

10. How about CIA Leak Case: Everything I Disagree With.

Would that work?

I'm not in either camp, as I think it's going to take some time to see how far this whole thing goes. I think Fitzgerald is moving at the right pace, and we could see some interesting things happening. But to censor ourselves from the opinions of others is not worthy of DU.

[emulatorloo]

47. LOL - I like reading stuff I disagree with and want to read it

I just want to find a way to filter "ABANDON ALL HOPE THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO" stuff which is only about weeping and not about substance. Not saying that is not a valid response either.

[sufrommich]

73. You already have a way to filter what

you consider junk.It's called "ignore".

[emulatorloo]

78. doen't really work in this case --

"Ignore" doesnt work because just because I don't want to read X's ABANDON ALL HOPE posts doesnt mean I dont want to see what X has to say on a different subject or in a different modality.

"Hide Thread" doesn't work because you can't tell it is an ABANDON ALL HOPE thread from the title.

[helderheid]

13. recommended!

:thumbsup:

[bloom]

15. If you want to see Gloom and Doom

you should go to:

The Environment is Doomed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x34015

http://www.morphizm.com/observations/leopold/leo_bodman.html


Gloom and Doom is all relative. :)


That doesn't mean people should stop talking about issues and what they think.

For another related thread see:

Tolstoy on Sheeple

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2192075

[Coexist]

16. I wouldn't care so much about Gloom threads, except the same User seems

to begin a new one as soon as the previous one finally drops into the netherworld of page 3.

Why the constant Gloom reassurance??

[bloom]

23. At least you know who to avoid

if you want to avoid it.

[zanne]

76. Maybe the same User was trying to speak for those who don't dare

Sometimes, a thread gets going here where everybody has the same opinion. Then, eventually, somebody will post with a different or opposing opinion. That user will be flamed until other people begin to express their opinions, too. It's just that, sometimes, one person has to be a big pain and party pooper so that others who feel the same way will be encouraged to voice their opinions. These boards can be vicious, and if you think differently about a subject, it takes balls to post. And now, we find someone had the bright idea to start censor differing opinions. Way to go, fellow Dems....way to go.

[FredStembottom]

20. I completely avoided DU yesterday...

after the indictments. Because what I found to be very interesting and cagey and hopeful would have to be seen as a huge disappointment here. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this place. Read it twice a day - but don't confuse the unhinged high-hopes that got piled up here with reality itself.

So many here thought Santa was bringing a pony for Christmas and are now demoralized because he only brought a saddle, harness and 100 lbs. of Pony Chow.

There may be more to think about here.:think:

[DeepModem Mom]

25. I disagree. I think we need some DUers...

to keep us from getting completely carried away by our own high hopes. If I'm feeling pessimistic I try to avoid posting myself, but I've been here long enough to see some who did proven right, more times than I'd like to recall.

[Mutley]

45. I second THIS motion.

We need the balance of the optimists and the pessimists.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. We must all toe the party line of the day. "Don't Worry! Be Happy!"

Actually, I'm fairly happy with the Libby thing. Another nail in the coffin of BushCorp. I am a bit dismayed at some peoples glee at a victory of "gotcha" politicts over the implications it brings of the cover-up of the manipulation of intelligence that got us into Iraq.

I see the affair as a tool to be used by progressives to bring an end to the war/occupation by discrediting the Bush Administration. Hopefully, it will do so by bringing down the administration through impeachment, but with the record of pussyfooting and playing it safe displayed by our Democratic "leaders", I'm not holding my breath.

Doom & Gloom? Considering how much BushCorp has gotten away with, and the lack of opposition, or cooperation, of the Democratic "leaders", I hardly think so.

[emulatorloo]

31. Don't misread me -- "Don't Worry Be Happy" is not what I am looking for

Just an easy way to sort out substantive threads vs WE ARE ALL DOOMED THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT ABANDON ALL HOPE threads.

[longship]

32. At the approach of any important event, the moles come out.

Take for instance, yesterday's announcement of indictments.

Prior to the announcement, all the moles screeched,
"No indictments" "No Indictments" "No indictments"
It was so pervasive that a good portion of the threads had posts saying the same damn thing.

Then, after the indictments came down, the moles immediately started again with their screeching.
"No more indictments. It's all over." "No more indictments. It's all over."

I suspect that these moles are the same group who are spewing,
"Pardons!" "Pardons!" "Pardons!"

Their incessant screeching is very annoying.

I guess DU has it's very own nattering naybobs of negativism.
(homage to Spiro T. Agnew)

[mestup]

35. "If Democrats weren't brain dead, we'd really be in trouble".

From last night on CNN, Jeff Greenfield quoting a Republican, and discussing how invisible the Dems are on all the WH troubles.

Sometimes it's not gloom. It's not doom. It's just reality.

[upi402]

40. True, if there is a donkey in the living room...

Ya might want to say, "There's a donkey in the living room".
I don't might reading both sides of our side to fill it out and generally dislike things smacking of censorship. Partition is understandable as efficiency is a modern necessity, however.

I say -leave the debate as a debate, not a single-side discussion or an 'activism only' forum.

[Generator]

42. Ignore

If we go on level 4 or whatever it was,then the ignore list goes away? Because there was someone that posted yesterday that posted such not just despair but utter tripe-that the only thing you could say to such a person was "why not just kill yourself then? or what the hell are you doing here?" Kind of like we are doomed forever and there is no chance of anything ever getting better. And I realized that said preson was one of the very few people I had on ignore.

Hey-I joke that Cheney's a reptile from another planet-but if I post it as a fact and we are all going to be eaten-what can you do but ignore me?

Answer being-put them on ignore if you really think what they say is pointless.

[cassiepriam]

55. I have mixed feelings, am confused. Need to be able to talk about it

with getting flamed!

[emulatorloo]

56. again not talking about "banning" or "flaming"

nor am I saying that an emotional response is not valid.

[bluedawg12]

59. A invitation : come on over to this thread and talk about our future

Fitz is important but that is passive on our part- we didn't not indict anyone. We need to get a message going to the American people to take advantage of the repug weakness.

Come on over and give us your bright, shiny, ideas and how the Dems can get their message across.

Time to spank those bad consrvapigs and show them how to lead and govern!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5192093&mesg_id=5192093

[paul_fromatlanta]

60. In defense of Eeyores

We carry on no matter what.
We eat thistles til carrots are available.
We carry the load for others who are more interested in their honey that the 100 acre woods.

[lutefisk]

63. Eeyore is a Democrat, right?

Or at least the symbol for the party.

I'm just glad "drip drip" self-extincted itself. That was really annoying, but I never thought about restricting it.

[paul_fromatlanta]

65. In this case it was a reference to the original post

"So I can modify my orig request to GD: CIA LEAK CASE: EEYORES and POLLYANAS if you like"

[Mr_Spock]

61. That's a great idea!! All the pessimistic people who want to drag us down

can go there and have suicide party's!!

That is a fabulous idea!! GD: CIA Leak Case: Doom and Gloom - I LOVE it!!

[earth mom]

75. Sorry, but staying "on message" is for rethugs.

I'm really sick and tired of those who think they have to frame every issue and require every last one of us to march in lock step. F that! I can think and feel for myself, thanks anyway.

And I would think most liberals would and should be alarmed to find this kind of thread here on DU where most of us come to explore all facets of an issue using critical thought and analysis.

Oh, but that's not allowed in the U.S. these days is it? You're either with us or against us, ain't that right? Jeez! Give me a break! :eyes: (love those emoticons, btw!)

p.s. By the way, I LOVE EEYORE. At least he's honest and doesn't play games.

[emulatorloo]

77. None of my posts say or imply "Stay on Message" or "March in lock step"

nor do I say that pessimistic posts should be banned or anything like that.

I like discussion, argument, and disagreement. That is why I come to DU.

If people want to be darkly pessimistically without substantive arguments etc that is great too.

All I was asking for was a way to get to the discussion argument and disagreement posts w/o having to slog through the non-substantive GIVE UP ALL HOPE theads. I amended to add the non-substantive ALL IS WONDERFUL threads to.

"Ignore" doesnt work because just because I don't want to read X's ABANDON ALL HOPE posts doesnt mean I dont want to see what X has to say on a different subject or in a different modality.

"Hide Thread" doesnt work because you can't tell it is an ABANDON ALL HOPE thread from the title.

[EstimatedProphet]

79. Locking

We appreciate the suggestion, but the approved method is to email the administrators. Thank you.