Anyone see this story ... THREE SEALED INDICTMENTS NOT REPORTED

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

BY MASS MEDIA FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS

VICE-PRESIDENT CHENEY and White House NSC Advisor STEVE HADLEY have been indicted of high crimes against the U.S . Constitution. If convicted both men could be subject to capital punishment! Stay with Cloak News and www.cloakanddagger.de and stay ahead of the Mass Media parade.

http://www.cloakanddagger.de/

Okay - PLEASE DON'T CALL ME A WOO-WOO. I doubt it's true as well. But it's out there (on a couple of sketchy sites). Could there be SOME truth to it???? I know. I'm grabbing at straws huh!

[Mutley]

1. I'll consider believing it when its got a much more reputable source.

[meisje]

10. Raw Story?

[Mutley]

36. Oh yeah. Raw Story is the number one reliable source in my book.

:D

[kurth]

2. Too late for 4/1, too early for 10/31

[Sydnie]

4. Didn't Fitz say there were sealed documents at the court that he

wouldn't discuss today?

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

5. Did he really say that?

[Sydnie]

33. I might have been mistaken

I went back and read the transcripts from today and here is what I thought I might have heard about sealed papers -

"QUESTION: Do you feel that Judge Tadall's (ph), Tetogin (ph), other circuit judge's references to evidence of important potential breach of public trust that was carried in your ex parte submissions last year -- do you feel that the charges that you brought now are in line with the submissions you made then and what you said you had potential evidence of?


FITZGERALD: I think there's two questions in that, which I'll say: Is our charge -- does that line up with the secret classified filing? I can't talk about, so I won't comment because I don't want to give you an idea of what's in there.


However, you're asking do these charges vindicate a serious breach of the public trust? Absolutely.


If you're going to have a grand jury investigation into the improper disclosure of national security information and you're going to have someone in the position Mr. Libby is lying to the FBI on two occasions and going before a grand jury on two occasions and telling false testimony and obstructing the investigation, that, to me, defines a serious breach of the public trust."

So, today it appears he was talking about something he filed last year. Sorry for my mistake.

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. OK, swell. But....

Really, how the heck do they know?

I would not be surprised, but that's a long way from knowing.

[wookie294]

6. Raw Story said it's DEVELOPING HARD !!!

hehe. Just kidding.

Unfortunately, Fitzgerald and Bush duped everybody today. The investigation is over, Libby will plead guilty to all charges (which will forbid a deal to rat-out Cheney) and Bush will pardon Libby completely.

IT'S OVER.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

7. You're so funny. You got me BIG TIME with that. LOL

[deadparrot]

8. No matter what happens, Bush is going to think long and hard

abour pardoning Scooter.

[KerryOn]

11. Totally disagree....

This is just the beginning, there is still more to come. Five indictments is no small thing and it is VERY obvious that Libby is not the sole player in this.

In fact I think Libby is taking he fall for others. I do not believe that he outed Plame, and if I were Libby I would squeal like a pig. If you were facing 30 years in prison, would you take the fall for your boss? I know I wouldn't.

The indictments against Libby will make him talk and things will start to fall into place. There will be a trial you an count on it. Bush can't give him a pardon until unless hes found guilty.

This is about our national security. Because we have criminals in the WH are allies will never again trust us with classified information regarding their security or ours. This has harmed our country and made it weaker in a time when our country needs to become stronger. The damage that has been done is extraordinary and it will be years before our reputation can be repaired.

This is not over.

[jazzjunkysue]

9. Hadley was expected. And if Cheney does get it, this is how it will

happen:
First Libby, then negotiations, then Cheney. Let's face it: No way would Libby leak this to several important journalists, including Miller and Novak, if Cheney didn't OK it. Same goes for shrub.

So, of course it will take a few days or weeks of smoke before cheney gets named.

Remember, there is the unnamed Mr. A in the indictment. It has to be either Rove or Cheney, and an expert on AAR tonight, with Sam, said everyone knows it's Rove.

So, to save his hide, why wouldn't Rove finger Cheney? Miller and Libby already have.

This is not so hard to believe.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

12. "Unnamed Mr. A" might be Advisor Hadley??

[deadparrot]

15. "Official A" is almost definitely Rove. nt

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

16. Oh lol, I was taking it literal, like the person had to have an "A" in

their job title. I would MUCH rather see Rove be be "official A" Thanks for that

[deadparrot]

17. No problem. WaPo and AP are reporting that it's Rove.

:hi:

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

18. Wait WHAT? AP is reporting that it's Rove?What is, the sealed indictments?

Are you saying there really are indictments that are sealed that we don't know about???

[deadparrot]

19. No, no...that "Official A" is Rove.

Sorry for the confusion. :hi:

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

20. deadparrot there is another post on this board that relates to this..

I don't want to get my hopes up but this might have legs ... it is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5214891

The reason I bring it up is this


He was referring to the indictment's failure to identify "Official A," one of Novak's two sources on the Plame story who told Libby of his conversation with Novak on July 10 or 11. In the meantime, Novak said, he cannot comment, on the advice of his attorneys. The indictment does not mention whether Novak testified before the grand jury.

?????????????

[deadparrot]

22. I believe Novak did testify.

Is that what you were asking, or was there anything else?

[MADem]

14. Of course, quite correct you are! Libby is just A TOOL

Fitzgerald wants the hands that USED the tool, to the detriment of our laws, our Constitution, and our national security.

It amazes me how many people cannot see the obviousness of it all!

[MADem]

13. Well, sealed indictments, by their nature, would NOT be reported

for any reason.

The things are not reported until they are unsealed.

Who knows? I do believe, though, quite strongly, that anyone who thinks this business is done is whistling past a graveyard.

If it WERE done, we would have seen Fitz with his Samsonite rollaway and suit bag, boarding a plane for Chicago at DCA to go sleep in his own bed.

That ain't happening...

[Zan_of_Texas]

23. Fitz was completely tight-lipped today.

He repeatedly refused to comment or even hint at anything outside what he called "the 4 corners of the indictment" before us.

However.....

QUESTION: You had said that the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is completed. A lot of the players, some of the lawyers, some of the people involved (inaudible) through Watergate, through Iran-Contra, through Monica Lewinsky.
Does this case, based on what you know now, remotely compare to the specter of any of those cases?
FITZGERALD: I don't even know how to answer that. I'm just going to take a dive.
(LAUGHTER)
Sorry.
QUESTION: Did you seek any counts that the grand jury did not return?
FITZGERALD: I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.
(LAUGHTER)
Someone gave me a big shake of a head no, that I'm not allowed to say it, so I better not do it.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

October 28, 2005
Transcript
Fitzgerald News Conference

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Granted the question was not "Did you get any sealed indictments." But, along with the previous question, maybe there's just a slight waft (or maybe it's our massive wishful thinking....).

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

28. Anyone interested in this thread, please read the above post

[wanpete]

21. I think this it it folks...libby falls on the sword and rover somehow

sidesteps indictments. I do not think there will be any more indictments in this case. make no doubt that the indictments have crippled even more this farce of a presidency. but I think this case is done.

Fitzgerald was totally competent, professional, and thorough. But I think he's gotten all he can get out of this one.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

24. You honestly think this man with young kids will fall on the sword for pig

fucker Rove. I don't think so. I think he will look at the 30 year possible sentence and BE CHATTY KATHY

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onenote]

29. oh boy, more flocco crapola

I'll go out on a limb here.

The Flocco story and the story cited in the OP are works of utter fantasy.

onenote

[Blackthorn]

30. We'll have wait and see...n/t

[Garbo 2004]

34. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the quality of Tom Flocco's reportage.

Check their grasp of basic facts. This stuff has been posted here and debunked on the most basic of points many times.

First story: Chicago grand juries do not hear or issue indictments in matters that are before a Wash DC grand jury. Plame investigation in DC not Chicago. And yet Flocco's claim is that a Chicago grand jury issued indictments to everyone including Tony Blair! in a matter that is not before it. Cool. But not possible.

Second story: Attny General Gonzales recused himself from the Plame investigation when he took office. Yet they've got him interfering in indictments? Frankly he doesn't have the authority to do so.

Basically for purposes of the Plame investigation, Fitz has the power of the Attorney General. See Fitz's authority via docs available on his website. Specifically the Dec 30, 2003 doc. http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html

And from Comey's Dec 30, 2003 press conference:

I have today delegated to Mr. Fitzgerald all the approval authorities that will be necessary to ensure that he has the tools to conduct a completely independent investigation: that is that he has the power and authority to make whatever prosecutive judgments he believes are appropriate without having to come back to me or anybody else at the Justice Department for approvals.

Mr. Fitzgerald alone will decide how to staff this matter, how to continue the investigation and what prosecutive decisions to make. I expect that he will only consult with me or with Assistant Attorney General Wray should he need additional resources or support.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107027,00.html
-------

And last but not least, Fitz doesn't look like he's been fired and neither Gonzales or Bush have been arrested.

There are sites that engaged in informed speculation, but Flocco & his associates are just fabulists that don't pass the most cursory of fact based scrutiny. And notice that Tom Heneghan is the "source" for both sites: one site "corroborates" the other because it's from the same source.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

35. Sorry if I posted a fantasy. I told you in the OP, I'm grabbing at straws

[Zan_of_Texas]

26. Libby's options.

Okay, let's look at them.

1. He hires the best lawyers in the land, they stall and stonewall as long as possible (bear in mind that Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling are still walking free 4 years after Enron fell), even as other events overtake this and it seems boring to the public and not so compelling or urgent. He takes what he can get, serves his time, maybe cuts a little deal first.

2. He flips, tells everything he ever knew. This goes against his grain -- he is said to be very careful and keep things close to his vest. As I understand it, he doesn't get much in the way of guarantees on his sentencing, just that his cooperation will certainly be noted.

3. He pleads guilty, there's no trial except a hearing on sentencing.

4. He actually commits suicide.

Curve balls:
~~Could Bush issue a pardon NOW, before trial? Some think so. Bush could certainly issue one after conviction, assuming there is one.

~~Could Libby's life or his family life be in danger if he sings? I believe it could. I believe they are all a nest of vipers, and would bite each other as easily as napping in the sun. An administration that would send 2000 American military and 100,000 Iraqis to their deaths on fake premises ..... Of course, it wouldn't look like murder.

[OhNoTheyDidNot]

27. LOL will he 'commit suicide' before he is pardoned?

[Oilwellian]

31. It is Bush who will commit suicide if he pardons anyone for this crime

Political suicide for the republican party. :evilgrin:

[Garbo 2004]

32. Same sources as the Flocco crap. For such super duper former fed

insider whistleblowers, getting basic facts correct amid their fantasizing shouldn't be much of a challenge and yet they fail miserably. Like when they claimed a chicago grand jury issued indictments in a matter before a Wash DC grand jury. D'oh.

hmn...maybe Flocco & Co are responsible for the Niger docs. Sounds like the same high quality work and attention to details.