It was not Rove's or Libby's idea to go to war...

[kentuck]

Their job was to sale it to the public and to stifle any dissent against it. They were doing that for their bosses, Dick Cheney and George W Bush. It was their idea to go to war. Cheney had been the Secretary of Defense in the First Gulf War and was considered a successful Secretary. George W Bush had publically stated that he thought it was a mistake for his father not to take out Saddam the first time. He also thought the way for a president to attain greatness was to be Commander-in-Chief during a war. He wanted his war. He wanted to be known as a great president. So, I think it can be said with some certainty that both Bush and Cheney wanted the war and Rove and Libby were only doing the bidding of their masters.

[wtmusic]

1. "only" doing the bidding

of their masters?

That's a big "only". Anyone with a conscience would refuse.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. In a hierarchal authoritarian institution (like a 21st Century Presidency)

Apparatchiks - even high level apparatchiks like Rove and Libby - do not make the decisions of "war" or "peace" -- that is the President's decision (or, in this case, with the Princeling President, the Crown Regent, Cheney's, decision).

But not Libby and Rove. They may counsel and advise - but the buck stops with Bush and Cheney --- and Powell and Rummie.

It is no defense to say "My apparatchiks put it over on me."

[H2O Man]

2. I think it

is accurate to say that going into 2000, it was Cheney and Libby who were advocating for an invasion in Iraq.

[glitch]

4. bush was talking about it too, from 1999.

There's an interview somewhere where he talks about correcting his father's mistake and looking forward to a chance to take saddam out.

They are all guilty.

[kentuck]

5. I would like to find that interview...

I think it is the same one where he comes across a megalomaniac who thinks war will be good for him and make him look like a "great" president - no matter if the war is necessary or not. And I think his lieutenants, Rove and Libby and others, followed his sick desire to go to war and be looked at as a "great" president. He is one sick fucker, in my opinion. And his people, and the Democrats that went along, are as much to blame as Bush and Cheney.

[Coastie for Truth]

7. But the decision was still Bush-Cheney

A CEO can't blame a "staff assistant" for giving him bad advice. Like Harry Truman's oval office sign said "The buck stops here."

Some people may have "reasons" to blame the various apparatchiks and hangers-on and advisers and advance men and policy analysts --- but the final decision (and bearing the consequences) was Bush-Cheney's.

Bush may be stupid - but he is stubborn. And Cheney is not stupid.

[peace frog]

3. True but

"I was only following orders" is not much of a convincing defense. While I would be raised to the skies if Fitzgerald was able to connect the evidence to Bush and Cheney, if he only has the goods on Rove and Libby well, that's fine by me as long as the whole truth is made public. Either way, Bush and Cheney will be irrevocably damaged, at present and in future history. They will not go down in the annals of American history as heroes, which I find almost as satisfying as seeing actual indictments brought against them.

[WatchWhatISay]

8. They ALL work for Cheney

Who is smart enough to know he was unelectable, had no charisma.

[Neil Lisst]

9. Cheney is the Iraq warrior, Bush just wants a war, and Rove ...

Rove just wants whatever sells.

Libby wants what Cheney wants.

[kentuck]

11. Well said...

Surmised quite well.

[LunaC]

10. Point the finger at the PNAC

Excerpts from "PNAC 101 - Rise of the Neocons”

The PNAC knew that he who owns the oil also owns the world so they sent a letter to President Clinton urging him to attack Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power since he put "a significant portion of the world's supply of oil at hazard". Clinton didn't grant them their wish and the PNAC was disheartened that they couldn't manipulate the military while outside of the White House power structure.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

George W. Bush seamlessly merged members of the PNAC into his Administration immediately after the 2000 Election. PNAC members elevated to the Bush hierarchy include, among others:

Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense
Paul Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary of Defense
Elliott Abrams - Member of the National Security Council
John Bolton - Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security
Richard Perle - Chairman of the advisory Defense Policy Board
Richard Armitage - Deputy Secretary of State
John Bolton - Undersecretary of State for Disarmament
Zalmay Khalilzad - White House liaison to the Iraqi opposition

An Honorable Mention was awarded to Condoleezza Rice - National Security Advisor - who is a former oil-company consultant having been on the board of directors of Chevron as its main expert on Kazakhstan.

The PNAC agenda had now passed "Go". The most powerful military machine in the world stood at their ready and Saddam Hussein was in the crosshair.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. One of the distinct minority of appenders who called it right

PNAC is all about controlling the oil spigot.