The embarassment of America

[hyphenate]

Frankly, I think fundies and this intelligent design shit make the US look like a third world nation. The entire concept of both ID and creationism make us look incredibly foolish by worldly standards, and this makes the US look completely backwards and stupid.

What other major nation in the world has arguments based on religion that are taken as seriously as they are here? What other nation in the world can see resources, ideals and goals frittered away by holy rollers? What other nation would lend any kind of credence to these dumb shits who are paralysing progress in our country?

For those of us who prefer to attend to our spirituality in our own private way; those of us who might believe in some aspects of religion which they prefer to keep them to themselves; those of us who prefer that our nation was conceived to be a secular one, with freedom OF and FROM religion; and who simply believe that the RRR is a bunch of asshole nutjobs; we must find a way to apologize to the global community for these people, and find a way here in our OWN country to banish them from the spotlight.

I don't give a damn if they consider it suppression of their beliefs, because it isn't. They need to keep their goddamned opinions to themselves, stop trying to convert us all into fundies, and stop trying to make our country into a third world nation by acceptance of their whacked out beliefs. We need to retain our ability for self-expression, and we need to set SOME standards on what is taught in schools, and in some ways limit the amount of bullshit and balderdash that is taught in so-called "bible colleges" so that a standard of secularism is imbued in our country as a standard concept. If these assholes want to make a huge deal of this, fuck them. The country needs to maintain SOME standards, and whether the kids are homeschooled or taught publicly or privately, they need to be fully aware of some things which are simply part of living in the United States of America. This includes secular learning in order to work in any government position, law, or even medicine. This means having respect for others even if their ideas are not your own. This means the end to intolerance based on homophobia, theophobia, or any other kind of phobia out there.

If we cannot bring a level of civility to our government through such standards and practices, then how can we ever claim to be an intellectual nation? How can we justify any action we do? How can we, as a nation, ever hope to reclaim the respect of the world if a vocal part of our population hates anyone who is different?

Religious intolerance, religious beliefs and bullheaded ignorance should NOT be part of the United States government in any shape or form, and this is especially applicable to the education of children. If this isn't clear to these dumshit asshole RRR Xtians, THEY are the ones who need to be shown the door to some sinking island in the Pacific where their intolerance can disappear with them in a matter of a few decades.

[pengu1n]

1. Damned Straight

Well written, concise and refreshing to read. US sometimes seems in thrall to the God Squad!

[hyphenate]

5. Thank you

I think it was the Reagan years which helped them feel bold enough for a massive takeover. I don't think a well respected Democratic president would give in to them, knowing that a secular government is far more important to the rest of the world than these people and their beliefs.

[Nay]

2. Hear, hear.

I am beyond sick of these nutjobs.

[hyphenate]

6. Totally agree! eom

[whatever4]

3. I liked that

"I don't give a damn if they consider it suppression of their beliefs, because it isn't. "

Can I add, I had the thought that, "they" say "we" want to take away their religion, whereas they seek to take from us FAR more than just our religion.

Laws about marriage and reproduction. Laws about the right to life and death, and love and hate. The changes they want to force on some of us are far more nonrepresentational than any loss of prayer rights or blue laws could be for them. Because, they have always been free to restrict themselves from "liberal" lifestyles, goods and services, churches and schools, workplace and neighborhood. In realizing they are generally unable to live up to their own ideals, they seek to restrict many of our perfectly legal behaviors and beliefs. Furthering their feel-good religious rights and rites, in ways that hurt and do not help those outside their group, and along lines that have traditionally lead to persecution in virtually every nation throughout human history.

We know people fight and die over religion. That's how it's always been, no matter who is in the "right" of it. We know it won't stop. We know THAT is the reason we keep it out of law.

We know putting religion in law is nothing but an excuse to persecute, because that is ALWAYS the net effect. They say religion in law is ideal, but what they want is not my religion, and that is why what they seek to take away from us is far more than our religion.

[hyphenate]

7. Point in fact

is that we don't want to take away their religion, or even suppress it. We just want to keep it out of the government. They can all drink the koolaid on the night of the Perseids for all I care--it's their belief, it's their desire and it's their lives.

[hippiegranny]

11. great post

a perfect compliment to the OP

[hyphenate]

14. Indeed

The RRR has a tendency to "think for others" without the ability to understand. They always seem to have greater fear of the natural function of sex in the lives of the people than the function of violence. They can't and don't have any idea that it is violence, not sex that has ruined our country in so many ways, and that it is repression on this line which fuels their own twisted set of values. Most of their objections to others, non-Xtians, is on that line without a doubt: suppression of gender preference, freedom of reproductive choice, freedom to be who you are, and to love who you want. By trying to take our desires and our wants away, they want to herd everyone into a corral of dubious morality, tring to make their own sick beliefs more tolerable. There are far more RRR members who have hidden affairs, murdered lovers, killed to conceal truths about past behavior, rapes, pedophilia, and every other bad thing related to sexuality in the first place.

It's one of the reasons the RRR wants the city of New Orleans to stay buried in the delta. The amount of people who gave in to their "hedonistic" desires and wild "values" was way too high there--and they want to see that kind of uninhibited sexuality to disappear.

[whatever4]

15. Thanks :)

[ClintonTyree]

4. We live in a nation of willful idiots.......

and I for one am not too sure how much longer I can withstand this stupidity. Moving to Canada is looking more and more desirable every day. For a country that is supposedly SOOOO developed and "cutting edge" our belief systems are woefully archaic and barbaric.
There are, at times, instances when I am deeply ashamed to call myself an American.

[hyphenate]

8. Except for the U.S.

the most powerful nations in the world are secular. And while that also includes some not so nice countries as well, we don't restrict freedom of religion from the people outside of the government.

There is tremendous hubris on the part of the Xtian right, and their desire to take their ideals and beliefs to the rest of the world--it's what lead to missionaries screwing around with people in other parts of the world, it's what lead to many upheavals as well. We can't look to the Crusades and think anymore of what a "lovely" crusade it was, because it wasn't. Too many things in history reek of religious intolerance, and it's almost always the "Christian" who will kill to get his way, who is the aggressor. Is there any wonder that other religious groups have had enough?

[Ripley]

9. I was in Montreal in July and they do laugh at us.

Of course everyone there was polite and treated me well, but even the damned cab driver told me more about our foreign policy than the Average American knows.

I hate it when I travel and I have to say "I hate Bush" immediately, so they don't think I'm a typical American.

It's not just "religious bigotry" that they laugh at us and think we are backwards. first and foremost it is THE WAR that they hate. The unadulterated raw evil power the US possesses and flings around like an insane, drunk headless horseman of the Apocalypse shooting a shotgun.

[hyphenate]

10. I was in Toronto early October

and pretty much got the same impression. They hate Bush, pure and simple. And since Toronto is filled with many immigrants from the middle east, India, and other areas such as these, it is apparent as well that they view Bush as a complete asshole and fool. The fact that he listens to the preachers of the extreme right have also tainted his judgement--if it weren't for them wanting to hasten the so-called "end of days" for their benefit, we wouldn't be embroiled in this war, or any other even like it.

[Ally McLesbian]

As late as 2003

I was a proud American on the streets of Paris.

If I were to return to Paris (or any other fine world capital) today, I would NOT identify as an American. Too much risk, and I am too civilized to be associated with such scums as W and the Dominionist Christians.

[cassiepriam]

12. We are a third world country.

Financially, intellectually, morally.

[hyphenate]

13. Right now

I completely agree with you. We've lost what it took the U.S. to be great. Now, too many are in power simply for that reason. The needs, wants and wishes of the American people are being ignored, and instead of moving forward, we have taken a gigantic leap backwards.

[LoZoccolo]

16. The idea that the Democratic Party wants to interfere in religion...

...is a key element of a Republican strategy picked by them out of all possible strategies they could have picked to help them take power. Whether or not they push the idea, or we push it, does not matter; whether or not they divide according to religion, or we do is irrelevant; it all allows them to fight according to their plan.

[hyphenate]

17. It's definitely the perception

that we want to do something about it, but if these idiots in the RRR would just think for a moment (well, we know that won't get them very far, don't we?) they would realize part of the liberal platform is to "live and let live." It is their own party's "live and let die" which is screwing up the world.

But since they're so filled with hatred and intolerance, it's difficult for them to find much in the way of kindness and compassion for anyone who doesn't pray to their Xtian god.

What amazes me is that they have such a limited view of their "god" to the point where the average Goa'uld is more powerful than their entity. How can they believe that an "almighty" entity could be so narrow and close-minded, petty, intolerant, conceited, prejudiced, and so many other human foibles?

It seems to me that they can not understand that an entity that created the universe would pretty much view them the same way we view ants. Whether one believes in a deity which is an abstract concept or one that talks and walks like a man, one would have to figure that such an entity would have better things to do than babysit mankind. And the fact that it's a "male" is also very telling. Is there any wonder that men have subjugated women for millennia based on their own corrupt view of faith?

[LoZoccolo]

25. I think it may have gone over your head, but...

...I was basically accusing you of playing into their strategy, taking a role from the other side. Threatening to regulate Bible colleges is not going to harm the Republicans; they say all the time that the Democrats are trying to interfere with their religious freedom. They'd like us to confirm that; it's part of their strategy. We do their work for them that way. The religious right as we know it today had it's foundation in the fear that communists would regulate religion.

they would realize part of the liberal platform is to "live and let live."

Not when people are running around posting stuff like you're original post. If you want proof that the irony is not lost on them, I could provide proof for you. Just not here.

[hyphenate]

26. I don't agree

Even if you were attempting sarcasm or irony, it is not applicable, because that is not what I wrote in the original post.

In the original post, what I said was that some standards should be given to institutions like bible colleges and homeschoolers to keep the integrity of education in the country at all levels. Whether they believe in evolution, ID and/or creationism doesn't matter; basic scientific understanding is the only method we have that prepares people for a far more scientifically advanced society, for which we are not quite ready with many people.

My original post was attacking ONLY the RRR on the level of their attempt to turn the U.S. into a Xtian nation, but not one of peace, tolerance and openmindedness; instead, the leaders in that movement really don't give a damn about religion so much as they want the power that goes along with title roles in the persistent drama. They intimidate citizens through a wide variety of techniques, distorting the original overview of Christianity, and turning it into something appalling.

Yet, they are only a minority within the large field of the religion. Yet, they manage to make it into their battle simply by virtue of their overstatement of their "martyrdom". Most Xtians can and will stick by these extremists because they have never thought to themselves what a crock it is.

I don't want to regulate religion--I want to put it into proper perspective. Until these people (RRR) are chastised into understanding this, they will continue to be an embarassment to the country. Their right to continue to worship as they please would not be stopped--they have as much right as I do to believe whatever they want. Just don't have anyone try to convert me, because then they are interfering in MY right to worship (or not) as I please.

[Ally McLesbian]

18. We became a Third World nation

as soon as Reagan became president in 1981. The moment the words "liberal" and "intellectual" became dirty, this country was finished.

W is simply finishing off what Reagan started and Clinton stalled (but never quite undid).

Honestly, any nation that lacks universal healthcare, and executes innocents on a regular basis, does NOT deserve to be called "developed."

[leftofthedial]

19. Gawd will smite you, sinner!

In His Glory, He does not care that you are embarassed.

[hyphenate]

22. That's okay;

I don't care if he doesn't care. :)

[Richard Steele]

20. Well stated! recommended!

[hyphenate]

21. Thanks!

[tlsmith1963]

23. And They Always Say We are Intolerant of * Them*!

Well, if the definition is "intolerant of intolerance", then it's true. Why should we just excuse their crap, anyway? Good post!

Tammy

[Bouncy Ball]

24. I couldn't agree more.

Everytime I think the fundies and repukes (I am repeating myself, I know) can't possibly embarrass me more than they already have, they prove that they can, indeed.

Why don't they just go whole hog and decide the earth is flat, after all? That the sun orbits around the earth? That lightning comes out of God's fingernails and thunder is just God's bowling game?

It's the complete dissing of science that blows me away. SCIENCE, for cripe's sake. They're completely gullible fools, as long as the "explanation" has something to do with religion and not science. I know there's probably a gold mine of money in that fact somewhere, just waiting to be exploited, but I don't have it in me.

[megatherium]

27. ID is a noisy political sideshow, financed by a few rich conservatives.

It has had no impact on science in this country. Possibly science education at the high school level, in a few school districts where fundamentalists have gotten control over local school boards. But as far as the enormous scientific infrastructure in the US is concerned, ID does not exist.

[Festivito]

28. Rather it's the VOICE they have here, not that they exist.

Disproportionately loud and prolonged VOICE.

Every country has people who believe themselves irrefutably correct.

We let them speak, as we should. But, we do not fight back with our own voices.

That's our own fault.