How do you counter the "what if none of it happens?" people in

[texpatriot2004]

your life. As of late, I have been educating myself and my spouse about all the evils going on right under our noses; especially Chumpy's recent attempts to get unauthorized, unprecedented military power to use on US civilians and/or on a "Universal Adversary" which could be anybody. I am well versed about Plamegate/Treasongate and the sinister understory of that affair. I know about Selection 2000 and E-Vote '04 so does my spouse. I believe that our economy is being deliberately ruined. I know that if he gets Miers then he has all three branches of the "Government" in his evil pocket. I don't know, I guess I could go on and on about all the evil I am aware of where this regime is concerned but I won't. My spouse says to me, "what if none of it happens?" and not only does that cut me to the core, it scares me because that kind of thinking is a huge obstacle to real solutions. It's this "wait and see" kind of thinking that has landed us smack dab where we are. It's like satan has taken over 2/3 of your "Government" but don't be alarmed, just wait and see - can anyone honestly think it will get better by waiting and seeing?

The thing is, I am really disturbed by it all and my thing is that our individual lives won't matter if this turns into what I think it could turn into but my spouse says if our individual lives don't come first then it won't matter what happens to our country. I think that remark is part of the problem here in America...selfish self-centered thinking which is easily turned into "I am too busy to stay up with the issues" or "I don't have time to vote" or "I am not political" or any number of excuses Americans offer up for being self-seeking.

This is really scary to me because he doesn't seem to get it. I have shared more info with him than anyone and if he doesn't get it, who will? Thank God for DU.

So, do you guys get that too? Do you hear people you talk to about these issues say, "what if none of it happens"? If so, how do you counter that? How do you cope with it?

[Jo March]

1. I am not really a wise old DUer but I'll add my 2 cents ;)

Mr. Arnheim does not believe that things are as bad as I think that they are. Heck, I know that things are bad. I want to leave the country half of the time. The other half I'm preparing to be hauled off to a concentration camp by jackbooted republican thugs.

Try to spill your frustrations out on DU. It will keep the peace a bit around the house. Let your significant other in on stuff slowly. I have been giving Mr. Arnheim morsels and now he is checking DU for stuff more often.

Hang in there. It's not always fun seeing the oncoming crash, is it?

[lildreamer316]

3. Seconded.

At first my SO was not so interested. You know how I got him drawn in? The West Wing. Now, he likes me to keep him updated...he still gets impatient with it, but realizes the big picture IS important. Try to find a tack that will make him a little more open.

I am not a wise old DUer either,sorry.Just my .02.

[texpatriot2004]

24. Thanks for your 2 cents...

he watches the West Wing and usually I watch it with him too. It's been an uncanny parallel lately to our real "Government."

[Jo March]

28. Katrina really started opening Mr. Arnheim's eyes

He knew that things were bad but that just showed him how bad things really are.

Now he calls me to let me know *'s latest poll numbers! There is hope.

[MarsThe Cat]

16. too many people have been seeing the "oncoming crash" for way too long-

they tend to worry waaaay too much, imho...
i don't see any crash coming anywhere on the horizon- we always seem to weather the storms, and if one shows up, i'm sure that we will.

[texpatriot2004]

22. No, it's not fun at all. My spouse is checking DU now too.

I can so relate to your wanting to leave half the time statement. Thanks so much for your 2 cents wise young DUer ;-)

[MuseRider]

2. My husband is the worst pessimist

and I have a forever streak of optimism that waxes and wanes these days but usually never goes away.

I make like I am debating Randi Rhodes, stick my fingers in my ears and yell, "I can't hear you", and go on my way. I refuse to be side tracked for very long and being constantly depressed is not the way to keep fighting.

You can't make someone care. Do your best to keep him up to date and he will either come around or not.

[babylonsister]

4. Tell your honey It's already happening.

RE: The terrible response by the Dept of Homeland Security and FEMA after Katrina is a direct result of this admin.'s policies. The attempt to overtake and overturn SS also is. Many bills that have been passed recently, including bankruptcy,and the energy bills, and also including but not limited to bills passed that will cause further destruction of our environment, are done with no apparent thought to how we will be affected. Dems are also at fault, but it appears their only concern is lining their own pockets.
We should all be scared.

[texpatriot2004]

14. I did. I guess he doesn't see it the same way I do. For him, it's

like, it's happening but you know, there's still time, it's not that bad. For me, it's like, how bad does it have to get?

[bleever]

5. This can be frustrating, can't it? The corrollary I hear is,

"Yeah, but how can you stop them? They have all three branches, and the media is under their control too."

The worst part is, hearing it from your own family. Ugh. Just punch me in the stomach, why don't ya.

Here's my answer to "What if none of it happens?": it is already happening. Rich and corrupt people have stolen the government, and are making sure its whole apparatus is used to benefit the wealthy and powerful, at the expense of the public good.

The Iraq war: $200 billion, 2000 dead Americans, tens of thousands (probably more like 100,000) innocent Iraqis dead because they were in the wrong place (home) at the wrong time.

Katrina: Thousands missing, presumably dead, because the agency built and funded to rescue Americans was gutted and placed in the hands of cronies.

The list is longer, but right there we can see: it's already happened.

And when people nearest and dearest to me say, "Yeah, but what can you do?", I say, "Well, first of all, giving up is not an option. I don't know how it will be reversed, but I will do whatever I can to make it happen, and even if the end is nowhere in sight, they haven't really won til we lie down and give up. It's our government, not theirs. We have to take it back. Whether or not it seems impossible is irrelevant."

Sometimes people get it. Sometimes they revert to the "Yeah, but what you gonna do?" mantra.

But I will say one thing in defense of your spouse's viewpoint: you have to take care of your own life and your own family, in order to be an effective actor in this other arena of citizenship. You are the most effective person you can be when you have your integrity, and that means taking care of the home at the same time that you have faith in your convictions, and act upon them.


I hope this is of some use to you, texpatriot2004.


:hug:

[valerief]

7. If life was like the movies…

Numerous rich people would be kidnapped and held for political ransom. Each day more and more would be taken. Some would be led to the guillotine.

Where a French Revolution when you need it?

[RagAss]

12. The French had Guts....

[texpatriot2004]

13. Bleever, I too believe it is already happening. In fact, he asked

me tonight, "what do you think we should do about it?" and I answered, "I don't know what to do about it, if I did I would have done it already."

How can people still think it's not happening?

Bleever, just seeing your post here was very meaningful to me since we have been believers for some time now. I really appreciate your help with these questions.

NGU!

[noamnety]

6. In the words of Teresa Heinz Kerry:

"There is a value in taking a stand whether or not anybody may be noticing it and whether or not it is a risky thing to do. "

[texpatriot2004]

11. Whether you win or lose you stand up. Heard that on a movie

trailer last night.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. I am old, not particularly wise, and have not been at DU

very long at all.

But I'll give you my opinion as I step into my flamesuit.

This is from someone who has been married 33 years. Politics is an abstract until it is at your front door. Most of the time it is not. Someday it might get there. Yes, your individual lives come first EVEN IF "IT" DOES HAPPEN. Because all through history most people lived in crappy times. They lived in times of plague, the Inquisition, invasions, dictatorships and concentration camps. I think you have to decide whether you want to give over your life to righting the wrongs of the world or put your (limited unfortunately) energies, time and resources on your actual life.

I know there are passionate people here on DU and I believe that some of them are giving up their individual lives to right the wrongs of the world, but they are very unique.

So keep your eye on world events, write letters, attend marches if you can, and certainly vote. But keep a certain level of balance and put your husband and YOUR life first. Because if that's messed up you really can't help anybody anyway.

[postulater]

9. My mother has been a Repub all her life and tonight

she said she had had a revelation. She said last night she sat in bed and couldn't figure out if she was a Repub or a Democrat. She had read the new book by Catherine Crier about the fundamentalist takeover of the judicial branch and couldn't believe what she read. When she realized it was the truth she decided she couldn't support that anymore.

This is truly amazing coming from my mother.

[ToolTex]

10. Patriot, something is going to happen, don't fret.

I don't know what, but I am sure that it is not business as usual time. One of about three things is going to happen with the special prosecutor. 1. He has a bad accident in a small airplane, 2. he returns no indictments, 3. he returns some indictments.

Number 3 is the swiftest to fruit because the criminals are not going to be taken down by a pip from Chi-town. Like Tricky Dick said, "who else has cut off his arms for them." These criminals will not agree to be reduced in limbs and will not honor an indictment, (Bush didn't say he would fire the guilty, he said he would take care of them), verdict, or impeachment. They don't have to give up power, they have the army!

Number 1 or 2 are the best for the necrecons. They can keep up the deception of democracy a little longer. Each day in power solidifies their hold a bit more, but they are already not escapable. The collapse of civil rights is just a hair-trigger event away. Even tested now in New Orleans. In fact, US troops and NG can be counted on to let Americans die in numbers and allow great US cities to be destroyed while they sit and await orders. I heard with my own ears, US Air Cav helicopter pilots calling starving dehydrated victims in NOLA "insurgents!" Tempered in Iraq by a feckless populous sprinkled with enough to be deadly, why should airmen react to "looters" and "snipers" in Detroit, Dallas, or New Orleans any differently than Takrit.

Remember Rove's maxim, "every crisis is an opportunity." Only a hair trigger event away from the final Republican solution.

To think these thugs will follow the usual institutions of America when they have shown they respect no convention of Honor or Law is simple minded.

I don't think we will have to wait much longer for it to become overtly obvious. Of course, then it will be too late to resist them, (but it is already too late).

[proud patriot]

15. " yeah true , but what if it does , you can't say you weren't warned "

"decide for yourself , your family but choose
carefully"

[texpatriot2004]

17. I like your tag line. I can't stand PNAC either.

I wonder if there are families torn on what this issue?

[TahitiNut]

18. "Put on your own oxygen mask before helping your child."

That's good advice. :shrug:

Once upon a time, a good friend's daughter-in-law was discussing the (mild) behavior problems of her middle son. "He just doesn't take responsibility!" she lamented. "Do you take so much that there's none left for him?" I asked. (She got it.)

There's a difference between doing it for someone (enabling) and encouraging them to do it for themselves (supporting).

[demgurl]

19. What if it does happen?

I know this is answering one question with another but then you expand on that.

Talk out both scenarios and see where it puts you and our country.

If you naturally act out the scenario that it does not happen, and nothing is done by anyone, then you lose nothing at all. If you do try to do anything (besides violence) then you have lost nothing.

If you take your scenario to fruition, and nothing is done, then we are all in deep trouble. If you have done something then you are at least trying to assure the protection of yourself and others you care about.

Under which scenario are results disastrous? The first one where people shrug their shoulders and say "what if nothing happens"? You must always Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

This is the same argument I use about the environment. We say it needs to be protected because of things like global warming and they laugh at us. When you evaluate this then you will see why my argument is so important.

If we do what they want to do, and ignore the problem, what is the worst that will happen? Well, according to us it is global warming and the end of the earth the way we have come to know it.

What if we are right and we actually work at alternate energy solutions? We may come up with some and make the world a better and less costly place.

When you evaluate these two you see that if you go with our solution, in both cases, you really have nothing to lose. If you do not go with our scenario, and our theory is right, then you have a lot to lose.

It is late and I am tired, did I explain that properly? I hope that was understandable.

I guess the long and short of it is you have nothing to lose by being prepared for your scenario, the same can not be said for the wait and see approach.

demgurl

[texpatriot2004]

20. How do "prepare for the worst" I wonder. Thanks for the reminder

hope for the best prepare for the worst. I see what you mean if you go with the "what if it does happen" scenario and prepare and it turns out to be for naught, so be it. However, if you plan on the wait and see
approach and it turns out to be bad...then you're out of luck.

Did I miss anything?

Thanks for your thoughtful post. You did make sense.

[demgurl]

27. I am glad my message came through because I was pretty wiped

out last night. Yes, you understood it perfectly. In order to see our side you have to see what would happen with both actions if the worst story played out. Our way you are prepared and you have nothing to lose at all. Thanks for plowing through my information and understanding it.

demgurl

[BlackVelvet04]

21. Individual lives always matter.

Without individual lives there is nothing to fight for. Balance is the key.

When talking to a non-believer be cautious with words and emotions....too much pessimism and you lose the person before you get started. Right now it seems that liberals tend to get hysterical and overdo the OMG and WTF? and it turns people off. Settle for talking about a bad scenario not a dramatic end of the world worse case scenario.

[texpatriot2004]

23. true nm

[pitohui]

25. i try to remind myself of that question!

you make different choices if disaster is inevitable than if it is uncertain

for instance, we were living under the threat of terror of nuclear war thru the 50s & 60s, some people took it too seriously & did not bother to invest themselves in their education or their future because they figured it was all going up in smoke, those ppl do not have a bright retirement in front of them or a career they can look back on with pride

i used to be quite anxious that i was wasting my youth by educating myself & that nuclear war would be declared as soon as i found meaningful work, a fear that became much greater when ronnie "the missiles were launched five minutes ago" reagan came into power

the only way to keep moving forward & to keep calm is to remember that question, which is an excellent one

don't just have plan a for the worse case scenario or you could miss yr whole life

also have a plan for "what if it DOESN'T happen"

if yr life plan works under both scenarios, now you have a plan

[uppityperson]

26. Prepare by yourself, keep dealing with those of us who get it.

You can't force anyone to get it, but you can do what you can do and continue to do it.

"What if it does happen? Are you willing to just sit and watch and not try to make a difference? Does having the latest toy matter that much?" Then take them on a trip to help with gulf coast disaster relief and they might get a bit of it.

It is difficult for me because I live with someone who does get it but still doesn't think they can do anything about it so why try. I am glad for DU at times, at times it all seems so petty here to. People are different and drive me nuts at times but here we are. Onward. and peace