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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:07 AM
Original message
Right-winger fined for harassing woman over liberal bumper stickers
A Greensburg man who left a note on a car displaying political bumper stickers found himself writing a check for $423 when he was cited for harassment.

Murrysville police filed the citation against Allen Ritz, 34, of Concord Avenue, on Oct. 3.

Ritz was cited after he left a note on the windshield of a North Huntingdon woman's car and later talked with her by phone, police said.

The woman's car was parked at the First National Bank along Route 22 where Ritz, who works for a Monroeville real estate title company, was making a business call.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/westmoreland/s_384409.html






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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. good ... nt
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. D'oh!
You don't put your phone numbers on anonymous notes!

:rofl:
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. He wanted to talk her about politics.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 11:34 AM by Eric J in MN
She phoned him and instead was like "Don't touch my car!"

He called her expletives and communist.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good (nt)
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Itchinjim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Boy, I wish one of those bastards would harass me.
I really, really do.
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Bloodblister Bob Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Don't Sign the Note, Dumbass. n/t
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here is more:
""The first one said, 'Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry,'" he said. "The second one said, 'Support our troops, bring them home,' and the third one said, 'President Bush is killing our troops and our democracy.'"

Ritz said he was disturbed by the stickers.

He wrote a note that said: "Did you know George Bush got better grades at Yale than Kerry? Most people don't because of our liberal media. I think George is doing a great job. Do you think we should fight terror?"

Ritz didn't sign the note but jotted down his office and cell phone numbers. The woman called him at his office, he said.

"The conversation opener was, 'Don't you ever touch my car again,'" Ritz said.

The woman told police Ritz swore at her and called her "a communist and a leftist." Ritz denied the allegation.

Shortly after, Ritz got a call from Murrysville police Officer Joseph Bergamasco. "

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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
48. The better grades comment...
I would have replied that since I got better grades than both of them, and Mensa says I have a higher IQ, I will be running for President next year. "Thank you sir for helping me make up my mind. Would you like a vote for VLR button?"

:rofl:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
59. Good!
And no Kerry had way better grades then Bush dumbass. Kerry started out as a C student but he got better as time went on as you should do with college. Bush stayed a C student. :eyes: Can't even get the facts straight!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #59
88. Didn't you get the memo? Facts are stupid things......
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. seems like a violation of his Free Speech
if there is nothin more to it than what is in the article.

She didn't have to phone him. I wouldn't have.

It's not illegal to call someone a communist.


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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. She called him to tell him to never touch her car again
and he started the harrassment about Bush. I think that's where he crossed the line. Had he said, "I'm sorry and I won't do it again." we would never have read this story.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. oh please!
She called him, and he can't say whatever he wants to her? If he had threatened her life or something, OK, but he did nothing more than state his admittedly stupid opinions, which is not illegal and is not harassment. It's a very conservative attitude to want the state to punish morality.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Boo hoo. She found a note under her windshield wipers.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 11:46 AM by Eric J in MN
My heart bleeds for her.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. I'm guessing that there is more to this story than is being reported
The paper that reported this story is owned by Richard Mellon Scaife and has a very bad reputation for biased reporting. I have been told by a reporter that works on the Tribune Review that they are told HOW to report stories. People who admit to being liberals are not hired or if they are outed after they are hired they get relegated to writing obituaries.

If I get more info, I will post it.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I think that the fleeting reference of "swore at her"
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 11:31 AM by Eric J in MN
plays a bigger part in the story than the reporter emphasizes.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. I think so too
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Eric J, you and I agree on the free speech point.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 12:08 PM by Neil Lisst
She didn't have to call the number. She could have tossed the card and been done with it. While his conduct was annoying, it is not illegal, and this kind of precedent usually bites US, not them, in the ass later.

We have struggled with the other side of this issue since Bush stole the presidency. When Bush's palace guard aka Secret Service forces citizens to leave the president's path with their signs and T shirts, aren't they telling people they can't express a negative opinion?

The notion that everything objectionable in life should be illegal and carry a fine is a bad one.

I can think of a lot of devious things one could do with his cell phone numbers and name, things that involve posting them at various places on the internet. For example, one might post that name and those phone numbers with this notice, somewhere, or perhaps many places: Rightwing bottom seeks dominating liberal daddy.



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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. It is illegal to harrass someone.
And since he wrote the words he could be subject to libel or slander lawsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel

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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Who exactly did he slander or libel?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. What he did isn't harassment and isn't illegal.
When a woman phones a man and says, "Don’t you ever touch my car again,"
it's legal for him to call her expletives, under the First Amdendment.

It's rude, but it's not the government's business.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
69. Well, that is funny because...
what he did got him fined $500.00...that is pretty interesting considering what he did wasn't illegal.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. There was no trial yet. The cops aren't always right. (nt)
nt
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. Eric, you mean he's not guilty because someone charged him?
God help us if every Barney Fife with a badge in every podunk town in America gets to decide whether freedom of speech is overriden by some local or state law that he poorly interprets.

It's not harassment, it's not libel, it's not slander, to leave a note on a car. It can be harassment, but only if the other actions and/or history between the parties make that so. But it can't be slander or libel. What has he said about her that is a lie, who did he publish it to, and how was she damaged thereby? THOSE are required for a slander case.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
89. How is it that he got fined for harrassment if it's not harrassment?
I strongly suspect a judge heard the case, or a jury, and decided it WAS harrassment.

Stupid judges!!!!!!!! They don't know ANYTHING about the law!!!!
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #89
99. They haven't been to the judge yet
He was issued a citation by the officer. He paid the citation, and requested a hearing - the judge at the hearing will decide if the citation is appropriate, and if not he will ge the money back. I'm willing to bet it will be tossed.

Generally when you are issued a citation by an officer you are required to pay up front. At the same time that you pay (analogous to posting bail), you can request a hearing. If you choose not to request a hearing, you forfeit the 'bail', which is the same as paying the fine. If you lose the hearing, they keep the money. If the hearing officer decides the citation was unwarranted, your money is returned. I'm going to guess you've never gotten a speeding ticket, or else this would be familiar to you - congratulations! :)
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
68. Why did he get busted then?
Liberal bias on the part of the judge?

Inquiring minds want to know. Including, but not limited to, Peter Parker.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. There was no judge involved.
He paid a fine from the police.

Next he will challenge it in court.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
71. Seems like a violation of her car!
WTF keep your crap and letters and Limbaugh bullshit off my car! He doesn't pay the personal property tax on it.

They flaunt W stickers and "the color pride" stickers they are allowed to do so, but putting notes on peoples cars?

Her calling and saying "Don't touch MY car again" is letting him know maybe these guys need to get a clue that people don't like your notes! Maybe she was trying to make a point to him that it's not welcomed. He wants to flaunt his free speech he can do so my getting his own god damn stickers.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. When I find advertising on my car I don't get upset about it (nt)
nt
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. You've gotta love the note he left:
He wrote a note that said: "Did you know George Bush got better grades at Yale than Kerry? Most people don't because of our liberal media. I think George is doing a great job. Do you think we should fight terror?"
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. The money can be returned if he wins his appeal.
And if he does win his appeal, then I guess it's open season on all the "W" bumper stickers.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I have a pile of enlistment papers in my car for just that.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Great idea!
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. Where can I go to download some to print out? :D n/t
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wingnuts think they have a right to harrass people.
Look who their heroes are: bullies, loudmouths, liars, thieves...
"It never occurred to me that this cop could send me a citation for $500," Thinks his behaviour is acceptable, normal. How sad.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
62. Exactly
That's what pisses me off so bad. :mad: They think they can do whatever the hell they want to people and not expect anything back except for being a bully. Will this asshole got what he deserved. I say karma is a bitch.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #62
90. Typical RWer, thinks he can do ANYTHING HE WANTS.
Laws are for the Little People (Democrats), right??
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. He's only 34, so why isn't he in Iraq?
He's probably not intelligent enough to qualify for the armed services. :eyes:

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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. Not sure why you are all happy about this
What's next, we can't talk back to people who start spouting off about * while we're protesting?

This is clearly a violation of the man's free speech. At most he should be cited for putting something on her car, which is actually illegal in some places, but this is obviously not harassment.

Just remember that all these stupid definitions of harassment and terrorism will be used against US too.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I'm with you on this
and if I caught up to the car that cut in line at the drive thru this morning (don't ask), I would have had some words to say too.

Harrassment/menacing is following someone or making threats. My guess is that there is something more to this story than was reported.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I think its his use of expletives which
made the police think he should be fined.

But I disagree since she phoned him, among other reasons.

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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
63. Count me in
with all of you that don't want to give up free speech rights.

And further, as someone who was a victim of stalking, I think it's a bit of a stretch for him to be harrassing her when she called him. Now if he called her back a few times...well...that would be a different story.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #63
81. I appreciate that (nt)
nt
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
91. Do we know for a fact that he didn't call her back? With call return and
caller ID it's possible. I think we don't know all the facts.

Oh, wait, facts are silly........
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #91
107. you wouldn't be
bringing a grudge from a different thread onto this one would you? Because that would be against the rules.

My discussions with you have not been personal. If yours continue to be, I'll be happy to hit alert.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. I put a note on a creationist's car once.
He / she had a license plate frame that said, "Fish don't walk" and I had to set him / her straight with a list of fish that walked: walking catfish, frogfish, etc. :shrug:
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. Catfish walk? (nt)
nt
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Google "walking catfish." n/t
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
84. Jilln, Agreed. Technically, it is a TRESPASS.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 05:13 PM by Neil Lisst
If you go up to someone's car, put a card in the windshield wiper, the only law you've broken is trespass, and even that is tenuous.

First of all, if there is a note on your windshield, you don't have to read it. Second, you certainly don't have to call the person. Third, if you do call them, well, you're asking for trouble.

This is not about whether he's a rightwing jerk, but whether he committed a crime, and whether those shouting for glee are siding with the forces of evil in doing so. I'm not in favor of restrictions on freedom of speech. She got to tell him what she thought. No harm, no foul.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #84
105. I'm not even sure it's trespass
You'd have to check local laws, but where I live it's not trespassing until you have been TOLD not to trespass. She probably did not have a "No Trespassing" sign on her car.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
19. So the article gives Allen's name, address, age and occupation.



Something tells me Allen might be in for a little harassment of his own and possibly a little ID theft as well. I hope Allen considered what he was getting into when he decided to let the lady know how evil she is.





:eyes:


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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm still trying to figure out
what his note had to do with her bumper stickers. Grades? They never address real issues do they.

Not knowing what actually went on between the two of them I can't say if I agree or not with the actual end of it. Personally I would not have been disturbed by the note he left but there may be a lot more that is not being said.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. Melon-Scaiffe newspaper? I smell a rat. Story is all "He-said".
Did she record their phone conversation? Is that why the police gave him a citation? If I was going to call the person who left me a note, I might switch on my recording machine.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. So what if she recorded the conversation?
Since she was the one who phoned him, and he didn't threaten her, it shoudn't be treated as harrassment.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
61. many are suspecting that there is more to the story
like, for example, that he did threaten her. :shrug:

I agree that if the story is as reported (i.e., he left a stupid note on her car, she phoned him, and he called her a communist), he certainly should not have been fined. That would be ridiculous, IMO.

But, like many others here, I don't necessarily take this particular source's stories at face value.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
82. "Ritz swore at her"
but if he also threatened her, I think the police would have told the reporter that.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
94. Pennsylvania statute defines harassment as follows:
5504. Harassment and stalking by communication or address.
(a) Harassment by communication or address.--A person commits the crime of harassment by communication or address when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another, the person:

1. communicates to or about such other person any lewd,
lascivious,threatening or obscene words, language, drawings or
caricatures; or

2. communicates repeatedly in an anonymous manner;

3. communicates repeatedly at extremely inconvenient hours; or

4. communicates repeatedly in a manner not covered by paragraph (2)
or (3).


Also, Pennsylvania Supreme Court clarifies free speech vs. harassment in Commonwealth v. Hendrickson, 555 Pa. 277 (1999):

"...The government has a legitimate interest in preventing the harassment of individuals. The statute is not directed at the content of speech and is unrelated to the suppression of free expression. Rather, the statute focuses on the manner and means of communication and proscribes communications made with an intent to harass. By requiring an intent to harass, the statute does not punish constitutionally-protected conduct and under the principles espoused in Broadrick, the statute is not facially overbroad in relation to its legitimate purpose."

My husband practices criminal law in the county where this incident occurred. He was discussing this with another local attorney this morning and they both felt that the fact that the woman called the guy was irrelevant.

Also, the newspaper in question is notorious for biased reporting. I have a feeling that the reporter left out parts of what the police chief told him. My husband has experienced this first hand with this paper's reporting on his cases time after time.

I'll update this story if I hear more.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. Thanks so much, PA Democrat
I was wondering if anyone here knows the laws or even knows about the case. Please update us if you have more information on that case.

I am pretty certain that there is more to that story than just someone swearing at somebody else.

:yourock:
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. Under that law, swearing at someone is considered harassment.
"lewd" "words"
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #94
102. Then the statute is in violation of the First Amendment.
Under that law, if I say "Fuck you" to anyone, I'd be in violation for using lewd words.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. What do grades at Yale have to do with this war???
"Did you know George Bush got better grades at Yale than Kerry??

So what???? He is still is a completely incompetent, arrogant, ignorant MORON.


Hey freeper ass:

Do YOU know that Bush started a completely unnecessary war by lying to America and the world?

Do YOU know that Iraq had ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING, to do with 9/11?

Are YOU aware that Bush still hasn't found Osama bin Laden, the mastermind behind 9/11?

Are YOU aware that thousands of our soldiers and thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed because of Bush lies? And you asshole are proud of him?

Are YOU aware that Kerry was willing to die for his country in Vietnam, while coke-snorting Bush was "protecting" Texas bars from running out of business?

I see nasty pro-Bush bumper stickers around here sometimes, but I would never ever touch someone else's car to put a note on their windshield. Bush supporters have a right to publicize their ignorance. This way I know when I am dealing with ignorant assholes.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. It's fine to have a philosophy against
putting notes under people's windshield wipers.

But that doesn't mean he should be fined if he doesn't feel that way.

He's entitled to Free Speech.

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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. and I have the right to file a grievance if I feel threatened or
harassed.

It was the decision of the police to cite him, not hers. They apparently talked to both sides and made the decision to cite him. There might be some facts that the article doesn't reveal. Since he requested a hearing, a judge will decide if his conduct falls under Free Speech.

The article states:

"While Seefeld said the note itself was not threatening, the citation is based on the "whole course of conduct," including the phone conversation"

So, what was his "whole course of conduct?" Did he threaten her? Did he write down her license plate number so he can track where she lives? People who get so riled up about bumper stickers that they feel the need to put a note under someone's windshield might have a little anger problem and a lack of restraint. People can say whatever they want to say, but if I feel threatened by them and what they say, I might file a report, too.

When I still lived in Texas, I had several anti-Bush bumper stickers on my car. I had several instances with huge pick-up trucks driving behind me (small Toyota Corolla), just leaving a few feet between my bumper and theirs, then passing me slowly to gesture or to give me a threatening look. I took the stickers off after someone got too close and then followed me all the way home (which was a 1 hour drive).

Sorry, but I don't have any patience anymore with those depraved shit heads.


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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. my interpretation of what happened
He left a note because he wanted to talk to her about politcs.

She called and immediately said, ‘Don’t you ever touch my car again.'

He said "Fuck you" or something similar.

She didn't have to call the police. The police didn't have to fine him.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. Well, we can all have different interpretations of what happened
But none of us have all the facts.

I really think that the article doesn't give you all the facts. Do you really think a police officer would write a citation just because someone called someone else a liberal communist?

There has to be a little more to the story. My interpretation of the story is that he did a little bit more than just saying "liberal communist" or even "fuck you." No one in his/her right mind would call the cops if that is the only thing he said. As I said in my previous post, if I am in a situation where I feel threatened, I will call the police.

If all he said is "liberal communist," he'll win his case and get his money back.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. I would guess
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 02:36 PM by Eric J in MN
that he also called her a "bitch" or something like that.

But I still respect his Free Speech.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. I would guess
that he could have said "listen you commie bitch, I'll find out where you live and where you work and I'll make sure that your boss knows that you are an anti-American, liberal, communist. I'll post your phone number and address on freerepublic and all over the Internet so my Bush loving friends know where to find you...and by the way...cute little kids you have...would be sad if something would happen to them..."

Free Speech?

Eric, we both imply different things from the same article without knowing the facts.

You imply that it is as easy as calling the police and claiming that someone said something insulting (like liberal communist, fuck you, or bitch) to get the cop to write a $425 citation. Do you know of any such case? If that would be so easy, police officers wouldn't have anything else to do than writing citations for verbal insults.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. If he said anything threatening, why didn't the police
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 04:28 PM by Eric J in MN
say so to the reporter to justify their action?

There is no evidence he said a single threatening word.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Here is what the police chief, Tom Seefeld, said:
"While Seefeld said the note itself was not threatening, the citation is based on the "whole course of conduct," including the phone conversation." (bold of "note itself" added by me)

Reading Seefeld's statement, I could imply that the note itself was not threatening, but his conduct and the phone conversation was.

What was the "whole course of conduct" that earned Ritz a citation? Why did the reporter not ask Seefeld what he means by "whole course of conduct"? If you are an unbiased reporter, wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you want your reader to know the full story?

Apparently, Ritz didn't want to tell the whole story and the reporter didn't want to find out what really happened. It just makes for a much better story to say that a poor Bush supporting patriot is cited because of an anti-American commie.

A citations just for saying "communist leftie" ... give me a break. If that is the case, there is something wrong with our system and he should sue the police department.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. "Ritz swore at her"
He was fined after using expletives, not just for calling her a communist.

I don't consider that harassment since she phoned him.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. he was fined for his "whole course of conduct "
including the phone conversation. Sadly, the reporter didn't care enough to ask what the "whole course of conduct" was. And not printing the whole story just made for a much better article (that darn liberal media) :sarcasm:

So, we both don't know what "whole course of conduct" means.

Again, if you know of any case where a cop cited someone just because that person was simply swearing at someone else, go ahead and let us know.



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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #85
101. This woman seems very assertive
and it was probably easier from cop's point-of-view to write up a fine than to tell the woman he refused to do anything.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. So, the cop gave him a citation because he couldn't deal with
an assertive woman? A cop is giving out a citation to get rid of a woman who is annoying?

Boy, this is getting better by the minute.

If you read the whole thread, you might notice a couple of posts pointing out that the owner of the newspaper is apparently hell-bent on destroying democrats/liberals. This neat little article is just there to portray liberals as anti-American (or commies) who are out to destroy those poor conservative, pro-American patriots who are just trying to exercise their rights. Lots of people don't question the source and believe everything they read.

You certainly wont get the facts from that article.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
93. How do you know whether or not there is any evidence?
You've been to the woman's home to talk to potential other witnesses if she used speakerphone? Or recorded the conversation??

I think maybe you don't have enough facts to judge what is going on. that's why we have a court system, so people can't be punished based on rumormongering and opinions by nonwitnesses.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
27. I wonder what his Free Republic screen name is.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
87. I Wonder What His DU Screen name is
lol...
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. I have to say that
while I think what the man did was stupid, I don't think it was harassment.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. If the moron would have just left the note without his phone number
and left it at that, he wouldn't have had to pay any fine. I hope this judge doesn't rule in favor of him just because he was disturbed by this woman's bumper stickers.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. He shouldn't have to pay a fine either way.
This argument between two citizens isn't the government's business.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. I have a feeling, the news paper is NOT reporting what actually happened!
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 12:18 PM by Rainscents
My guess is, he had done much more than just a phone call conversations... There is much deeper harrasment it took place. Police is NOT going to write him a $ 450.00 ticket for plan stupid shit, I believe, he had done something much more.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
75. A richard mellon scaife newspaper
not reporting the full true story? Surely you jest? :)


http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/27/scaife.profile/
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
86. Thanks for the link. They were obviously not reporting the whole
story. Here are some excerpts:

"Scaife's tax-exempt foundations disclose their grants on the Web. Among them: $2.4 million over several years to American Spectator to pay for anti-Clinton reporting, even a private eye to dig up dirt. And millions more went to other anti-Clinton groups."

"Today he owns a newspaper, Pittsburgh's second largest, the Tribune-Review"

"In Pittsburgh, Minarcin edited a magazine for Scaife, but resigned. "He presented a list of people who he wanted the magazine to attack, a kind of enemies list," Minarcin said"

You bet your ass that the reporter wouldn't dare to write what really happened. I am so tired of those conservative shit heads being portrayed as innocent victims...some poor guy who was just supporting Bush and America got victimized by an anti-American commie...

Liberal media my ass...


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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. I remember during the 2004
campaign..a reporter from the scaife newspaper was harassing Teresa Heinz Kerry and she told him to "shove it" in so many words. And there was a Huge uproar from the hypocrites about Teresa telling a reporter to "shove it".

I read that she said scaife had done everything to make her life miserable..paraphrasing here.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. I remember that
and the "liberal media" made a huge deal out of it.

There is a bumper sticker saying "The media is only as liberal as the conservative businesses that own them" ... how true.

It is just sad that with articles like that, liberals are portrayed as trying to take away rights of poor conservatives who are just trying to exercise their constitutional rights. And too many people don't consider the source or are unwilling to dig deeper for the facts. The article said it, so it must be true. How scary.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
97. Imagine that !
What is sad is that Scaife has bought out all of the smaller local independent papers and he now has a monopoly on the printed local news in Westmoreland County. The only alternative is the Pittsburgh Post Gazette which is from a different county and does not cover as much local news for Westmoreland County. Westmoreland has a majority of registered Democrats but has voted Republican in the last 2 presidential elections. Most politically active Dems here feel that it is more than a coincidence.



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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #97
106. Here's to changes in Dem
Counties, where scaife owns the newspapers, thanks the overreaching hubristic style of chimpy and his gang of cutthroats.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
96. My guess is he threatened her with physical harm.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 06:27 PM by kestrel91316
That's the sort of thing it takes to get the cops involved, not just cussing. Or used caller ID and called her back repeatedly to harrass her.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. I read all your comments
and it was a very interesting thread. I guess having done that, I think there is more to the story than what was reported.

It does seem odd that he would be fined for a call she initiated. Maybe he did more than swear at her, maybe threatened her in some way.

Maybe he swore at the police officer that called him. Or maybe the officer called to tell him not to put notes on cars and he refused or something.

This just can't be all there is to the story. It doesn't add up, IMHO.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. I disagree.
Suppose the woman told the police she wanted to file a report agaisnt a man who put a note on her car and cursed at her on the phone.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that they would fine him.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. but then wouldn't that qualify as more to the story? n/t
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 02:38 PM by koopie57
edited for crappy spelling.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Not really. It's there or implied. (nt)
nt
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. okay, I'll reread it ... n/t
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. REMEMBER this literary MASTERPIECE I found on my car>>>>
<>
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. What does Harold have against cats?
:evilgrin:
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Harold's a DISCRACE!!!! (nt)
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. He never mentioned cats,
but obviously pussies terrify him.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
64. (Hmmm) It must be the sword. (Maybe he was rapiered.)
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 02:54 PM by TahitiNut
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. I think this might be what you had in mind ;-)


No swearing at me, hssssssss
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
72. I remember that!
I was about to write that in a previous post. Just to go and show how often these assholes can't handle the heat and walk away.

They tailgate you, flip you off, swear, road rage usually ensues, or they go and key your car, vandalize it or leave these lovely notes which should always be written in pencil *cough* Libiral.. I mean Liberal
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
58. Good
We have free speech to fuckers. Ugh! They think they can get away with crap like that, but I'm glad they can't!
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. I think he deserves a pie in the face from Pieman
This punishment is not enough.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
66. This story warms my heart
this moran on another board is stocking me, and supplied me with enough ammo to send to the authorities.

Life is good :D
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. Who's Stalking You? (nt)
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
70. I would have posted his numbers on every bathroom wall in town.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
92. Thank You!
In my opinion, his action calls for an equally obnoxious personal action, call it instant karma.

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