Let them have cervical cancer....... so sayth the fundies

[FM Arouet666]

http://www.ctx3.com/wordpress/?p=395
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051006/ap_on_he_me/cancer_vaccine;

In the US, for instance, religious groups are gearing up to oppose vaccination, despite a survey showing 80 per cent of parents favour vaccinating their daughters. “Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV,” says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV.

“Giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex,” Maher claims, though it is arguable how many young women have even heard of the virus.

[mcctatas]

1. Yeah, because without that shot, little mary jane remains unspoiled...

This from the same stupid motherfuckers who gave us Anal...oops...I mean abstinence only education:banghead:

[JVS]

84. Anal only education? Sweet!

[elehhhhna]

98. that's oral/anal. n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

2. WTF?

:wtf:

Okay, sure. All these women can die now.

Fucking misogynists.

I REFUSE TO BE PUT BACK IN MY PLACE!

Sorry. Had to get that out.

[Tace]

3. The Fundies Are A Scourge Upon Us All -- PERVERTS!

Like kids need a licence to engage in premarital sex.

[eyesroll]

4. Oy.

So they're sure these chaste young women will never be raped?
They're sure these chaste young women will marry chaste young men who have not been exposed to the virus?
They're sure these women's husbands will remain faithful?

There are plenty of ways for women who remain virgins until they marry to end up with HPV anyway.

[atommom]

5. These people really are infuriating. They'd rather see others suffer

and die (and explain it away by calling it God's will) than take very simple measures that could have saved them. I just don't understand how any reasonable person could justify that.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

6. "Reasonable" being the key word, there.

Fundies are almost NEVER reasonable.

[abluelady]

7. They Really Can't Die

Because if they are death's door, the fundies will try to keep them alive. Such moronic behavior out there.

[KitSileya]

50. The problem isn't that they won't take measures to save themselves.

The problem is that they want to deny others the chance to save themselves. It's not enough for them that their daughters and wives refuse to take the vaccine and then die of cervical cancer; they want to make sure that all women get equal chance of dying. They screw around worse than hippies in the 60s, but any consequences are the woman's fault. Grrr arrgggh!

[DBoon]

8. Fundies vs. 80% of US parents

Looks like they love being unpopular.

[PurpleChez]

89. Maybe so, but in today's America, the Fundies will still win.

The thumpers could be outnumbered 100 to 1 but rethuglican congressmen will still vote "fundie" and squeal that they're protecting real american values.

[rwenos]

9. Let's Play Ostrich

My kid will never have sex, if I simply don't tell him/her about it.
My kid will never have sex, if I simply don't tell him/her about it.
My kid will never have sex, if I simply don't tell him/her about it.

In the words of Mark Twain: "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt."

[FM Arouet666]

12. Nice quote... ;) n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

15. LOL. n/t

[NVMojo]

10. sick unreality jerks!

[AussieDave]

11. I heard this on a news report and just about barfed

It just shows how completely insane the Christian Taliban are - they'd rather see their daughters die a painful death than compromise their "values".

Sick sick sick...........

[serryjw]

20. Wait! Wait! Wait! this is a REALLY bad idea

When is everyone going to realize that the pharmas are not our friends. They only care about making money. The UK & US are talking about immunizing every child (boys are carriers) before they are sexually active....and 10 years from now we will have a generation of infertile kids.

We have 3900 deaths in America from severe dysplasia or HPV.( My guess of woman that don't go to have annually paps) I had a class 5 pap 25 years ago and they did laser to kill the bad cells and have never had a problems again. IF a sexually active female does annual paps, uses a condom and is reasonably discreet on partners this should not be a big problem.

http://www.gynalternatives.com/treatment.htm
http://www.health-science-report.com/

Remember Merck is having BIG financial problem with the withdrawal of VIOXX.....don't be so gullible. This is not a good idea. I wouldn't let my kid do it

[FM Arouet666]

26. I am confused...

You post a link to beta-mannan all natural therapy yet you mention that modern medical science was used to treat your cervical dysplasia. Hypocrisy?

I missed the double blind randomized controlled clinical trial used to establish beta-mannan as an effective agent for HPV. I did find a host of links regarding the HPV vaccine. You can check Medline if interested.

http://www4.infotrieve.com/newmedline/detail.asp?NameID=15887427&Session=&searchQuery=hpv+vaccine+barr&count=15

Efficacy of Beta-Mannan based on testimonials?

http://www.health-science-report.com/cgi-bin/alotek.cgi?topics=2&article=46

I did enjoy the link to Dr Glickman's Bible study. What a hoot.

http://www.health-science-report.com/cgi-bin/alotek.cgi?w=prophecy&ext=1

Your logic escapes me, you can avoid HPV infection, so therefore, a vaccine is not needed. Same is true for HIV, Influenza, and a host of other communicable diseases.

You suspect that the cervical cancer deaths are mostly women who did not get a pap smear. Laying blame on the victim? What about people who cannot afford medical care, no insurance, poor eduction? Too bad, should have had a pap?

On edit. Damn links are a pain.

[skids]

38. The Pharma conspiracy in this one is tame.

It's there, but tame.

This vaccine actually isn't news. The original research was done two years ago or even earlier. The testing has been done at various university labs. There are probably even competing products.

No, the "conspiracy" here is that this news story was made into a news story simply to announce to the public in a very noisy way that Merck has the rights to produce it and has a jump on approval by the FDA. Like most news we get here in the U.S. it was entirely about the stock market.

If you're really paranoid, you can probably go overseas and find a competitor's vaccine.

But you should get vaccinated if you are in the right demographic, and overall this is a very good thing -- see unlike here in the U.S., in poverty stricken countries, cervical cancer is much more deadly and claims many more lives.

[Nobody]

53. SmithGlaxoKline

Also has a vaccine and they're racing Merck to see who can be first to market it.

And then the Talibornagains show up and once again fuck with women's health.

Do they want all of us to die from PREVENTABLE diseases? I think we all know the answer to this one.

[mondo joe]

57. Agreed. The pharma-paranoids are as bad as the fundies on this one. n/t

[AllyCat]

64. The right demographic is everyone!

Many legitimate studies estimate that 80 of the U.S. population is infected. HPV is considered endemic.

[skids]

67. Vaccines don't work if you are already infected.

The target demographic is the 20% who aren't.

[KoKo]

40. Agree and that they want to give this to young girls before puberty in

Third World Countries makes me have fears of Eugenics. I wouldn't trust anything coming out of the Big Pharma under Bush. We already know of the deaths that rushing out drugs have caused Merk and Glaxo.

I wouldn't be rushing to give this to young girls. :eyes:

[serryjw]

45. Thanks for paying attention

To inoculate an entire generation is socially irresponsible. THEY are the ones that want woman to NOT be socially active before marriage and NOW this? IF you contract HPV there are treatments available in the industrial countries. As for the 3rd world countries I am more concerned with HIV that is wiping out entire countries in Africa. THEY are not going to die from HPV but a dozen other problems including FAMINE. YOUR concern is well founded..anyone that trusts the motives of the Pharma companies has a lot to learn.

25 years ago my doctor in LA was the only private office that had a $ million laser in his office. It was cheap, painless and never had another bad pap.

Anyone whom believes that western medicine is the only (first) solution is looking for trouble. For every procedure/med you take you are asking for other problems from the treatment. Viagra was 'tested' also and how many men died from it before they realized that men with heart conditions should not be taking it.

At best there should be a 10 year trial among sexually active teens. We are not going to know how it effects fertility for at least 10 years.

[FM Arouet666]

108. Ok, what do you base your post on????

"effects on fertility" What are the effects of this vaccine on fertility? I have not seen any data to suggest that fertility will be adversely affected. However, you may have information, please share this with the forum.

Your premise seems ill conceived. Why inoculate a generation when HPV can be treated after infection? Preventing HPV infection in the first place is much easier than treatment of infection. Your anecdotal story is not to be assumed to be the standard for all women. And as I have pointed out, many women may not have the resources or education to pursue a pap smear.

Why inoculate when many other health concerns need to be addressed. Non sequitur, just because other serious health issues exist we should not neglect a particular issue which is potentially preventable.

[FM Arouet666]

127. Crickets............

Sad. Post unsubstantiated criticisms regarding the HPV vaccine, then fail to address criticisms. A common characteristic among adherents to pseudo-science.

[AllyCat]

63. SerryJW, I beg to differ

While I don't have much love for Big Pharma, I struggled with HPV for 8 long years. It showed up first after the cytology labs got busted for not reading the samples correctly (they were getting paid by the piece) so who knows how long it was there before any found it. Then I went in for colposcopy after colposcopy. Biopsies (painful and not without risk) showed up negative each time. We tried cryosurgery. Expensive...no luck.

Mind you I went in every 3 months at this point for yet another PAP smear. Think of the expense, huh? Not to mention my frustration, time, and discomfort.

Oh yeah, then laser. Painful...still didn't work. Eventually, it just went away. But for all that time, I lived in fear of what would happen when it finally turned into cancer.

No way. If there is a vaccine. I'd take it and get it for my daughters too.

[cloud_chaser1]

72. Unless I am mistaken.....

isnt a vaccine for PREVENTION? A vaccine cures nothing. It prevents you from getting a disease. Yes, there are ways of dealing with cervical cancer once you have it but isnt it a lot better not to have to deal with it at all? Isnt it better not to have it at all?

As far as a vaccine giving some kid the greenlight to go out and have sex all over the place...isnt the vaccine for that proper parenting of that kid...teaching the kid the risks?

I think the fundies who oppose the vaccine are basically admitting that they and their kids are dumb as dirt.

As for the pharmaceutical companies, when you make a solid advance against cancer, the business end of the drug industry is secondary. And the fundies can take a long walk off a short pier.

[Maestro]

105. Vaccine in place of proper parenting...good point.

When we give gives the Hep vaccine or the flu vaccine do we as parents just stop telling our kids to wash their hands after using the restroom or before eating or after sneezing? If there is a possible prevention to some disease, even if it is being produced by the pharma industry, I want it made available. And I am a cancer survivor.

[serryjw]

94. Truly sorry to hear about your ordeal

We are both entitiled to our opinion. Glad to hear things are better.

[Doctor Panacea]

110. That's nonsense!

"We have 3900 deaths in America from severe dysplasia or HPV. (My guess of woman that don't go to have annually paps) I had a class 5 pap 25 years ago and they did laser to kill the bad cells and have never had a problems again. IF a sexually active female does annual paps, uses a condom and is reasonably discreet on partners this should not be a big problem."

Please, nobody listen to this. I actually looked to see if she had a *SARCASM ON* tag somewhere, but I could not find one.

I am a physician, and I have SEEN (many, many times) the enormous warts that grow on penises, groins, and vulvas caused by the HPV virus. Remember that piece of cauliflower in your last salad? That is the size of some of the warts that I have seen on groins.

I have worked as a college physician, and I can tell you that venereal warts are an enormous problem.

If this vaccine works, it will be a wonderful thing.

[NickB79]

112. Almost 500,000 women per year contract cervical cancer worldwide

It is the second most common form of cancer in women worldwide, second only to breast cancer. Every year almost 275,000 women die from it worldwide. The vast majority of these women are in underdeveloped nations where modern medicine like we have in the US is unavailable. A simple shot given to a child by puberty could save almost all of these women from a slow, excruciating death. Focusing only on what happens in the US turns a blind eye to those in most need of this vaccine.

http://www.prb.org/pdf05/preventcervcancer-brief_eng.pdf

[Pepperbelly]

13. geez those guys sweat uterousi in all forms, don't they?

Could they all be wanting to crawl back into the womb? :shrug:

[Nobody]

54. No they're all grossed out at the fact

that they all were in one once.

[elehhhhna]

100. I want facts. Let's ask the veternarian. lol

[mtnsnake]

14. Abstinence is the best way to prevent future fundies!

At least until there's a Fundie vaccine, it is!

[Autumn]

16. Fuck the fundies

My grandmother died from cervical cancer and that is not a pleasant way to die

[Betty]

17. Women who have sex must be punished

both by pregnancy and cancer. Preferably both. All fundies will tell you that.

[Nobody]

59. Oddly enough having babies is a risk reducing factor

in ovarian cancer.

The incidence is much higher in women who have never been pregnant. The article I saw didn't say whether it made a difference if the pregnancy resulted in a living child, a miscarriage, stillbirth, or abortion. Only pregnancy was mentioned.

As for fundies seeing children as punishment, it seems to follow a great deal. Dobson advocates child abuse. If you consider children to be a punishment, then the chances of you abusing your children goes up. Dobson says you should beat your infants to curb their wills and make them obedient. Only if you see your child as a punishment will you be able to bring yourself to beat an infant. If you're normal and love your child and don't consider it to be a punishment but a blessing, you are far less likely to beat a child with a clear conscience, and an infant? You'd be far more likely to strangle yourself with dental floss first.

Not all child abusers are fundies. But an awful lot of them are and they have a very high incidence of child abuse with extremely young victims. Anyone who thinks a child is a punishment should never be trusted with a child. Society shouldn't punish them with parenthood.

[Lochloosa]

18. This is not an issue IMO....when it comes to cancer

the mother comes out more than the "Father" does....ok mom's prove me wrong.

[Walt Starr]

19. Vile sick evil fucks!

There is NO IDEOLOGY ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET MORE EVIL THAN FUNDAMENTALISM!!!!

NONE

Vile sick evil fucks indeed.

[FM Arouet666]

21. Ah, come on, tell us how you really feel.... ;) n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Maybe they have a point

I mean, you know I hate to agree with the religious right- really I do- but clearly there's too much sex in this society, and man it makes me angry. On this one issue, I think they're pretty much right in saying that no one should be getting their jollies in any way, shape, or form that offends my personal value system. Every time I see a highly offensive mannequin in lingerie or am forced to rent porn against my will, I am angered that consenting adults still have the freedom to read, watch, or do things that I, personally, don't agree with.

We'd all do better if we took a cold shower or thought about Jesus playing baseball with Andrea Dworkin or something.

Really.

[FM Arouet666]

23. You had me there for a minute.....

Jesus playing baseball with Andrea Dworkin

:rofl:

[smoogatz]

44. Dang straight.

Anybody that's having more fun than me is going straight to hell.

[catzies]

91. LOL, "forced to rent porn against my will." that's hilarious.

:rofl:

[BloodyWilliam]

124. Hehe... greatest sexual urge remedy ever.

Plus you get extra points for referencing Andrea Dworkin! that takes skill.

[Ilsa]

24. And wearing a seatbelt is a license to have a wreck.

Same difference. But I'm sure those fundie parents will believe their daughters are different, and they won't "misbehave."

[FM Arouet666]

25. There is a fundie word for mothers which believe this.....

Grandmother.

[Kailassa]

81. I'm a Grandmother, thankyou.

In my experience older people are more likely to be broadminded than kids in their twenties.

[BloodyWilliam]

125. I think the point is that these grandmothers won't be "older people"

They'll be 30-year-olds who look up and BAM! Their teenage daughter is pregnant because they were too fucking stupid to teach them the most basic ways to protect themselves.

[Aviation Pro]

27. Why do they hate....

...women and vaginas so much?

[knitter4democracy]

28. That's always been my question.

I honestly don't know what their problem is, and I used to be a somewhat conservative evangelical. I even went to one of their colleges (don't recommend it), and it was appalling the standards we women students were held to and the male students weren't. Walked away from that church after that.

[PegDAC]

116. I remember this myself

at Dinky Fundie U, women students had to be back in the dorm by 11 pm during the week, and midnight on weekends. Male students had no curfew. There was no social dancing allowed on campus. Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. One time I asked the dean of students what the point of the women's curfew was, because if anyone were going to do anything (have sex) they could do it just as well before 11:00, or midnight, or whatever, as after.
:eyes:

[I Have A Dream]

36. I think that many fundamentalist males (not just Christian) think that...

they could stay sin-free if it weren't for females out there tempting them. They have a problem, but they need to find a way to have someone else take responsibility for it so that they can continue to delude themselves about their inherent "goodness".

All of this is because many religions consider sex to be a bad thing and only a necessary evil to continue the human race. How very sad.

[MountainLaurel]

51. It was all Eve's fault

And the issue is not so much directly about sex itself.

I was raised attending in a fundie church (though my parents never attended and were pretty apathetic where religion was concerned), and you have hit the nail on the head. To them, it all goes back to Eve: She was the one who tempted Adam to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, she was the one who brought sin and, thus, eternal damnation upon mankind. And so, women are not to be trusted because their entire being is designed to tempt man. That's why women must be submissive and subordinate to men.

And then, of course, there's the issue that God came to earth in the form of a man, so therefore men are gods.

[Nobody]

65. My take on this story is this

Eve is the mother of the scientific method and the first human to become sentient.

She ate from a tree that god could have put anywhere in the universe, a tree that god chose to place in the middle of Eden where anyone could get to it. This is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What is knowledge of good and evil? Morality? What makes us human? Morality. What makes us sentient? The idea that we know right from wrong and can make choices with a free will based on the consequences of our actions.

Did Eve die from eating from the tree of knowledge? No, she gained wisdom. She gained the insight that allowed her to say "Oops shouldn't have done that" and because humans weren't used to the idea of oops, she and Adam pointed fingers.

I'm proud of people like Eve who challenge authority for authority's sake, people who prove that dictators are liars, who expand the sum of human knowledge and wisdom.

Remember that god told Adam (and Adam told Eve, she didn't get it from god) and that she had to be convinced when the serpent opened up the possibility that she might have been lied to. When she ate the fruit and didn't die, it was evidence that god lied.

The fundies have taken this to mean sex. I don't see where sex enters the picture. Knowledge of good and evil is what keeps us from robbing our neighbors, stealing from the weak, and wresting food from hungry children. It's also what prompts us to help people when they need our help, look at the lines of people begging to give blood on Sept 11 and the floods of people offering money, services, food, water, and their homes to victims of Katrina and Rita. Without that fruit, this wouldn't be possible.

Instead of castigating Eve, people should be proud to stand up and accept Eve's gift of wisdom, morality, knowledge. Denying this is like wishing that humanity could go back into the prehistoric dark ages when we were still swinging from trees and living our lives according to instinct.

[I Have A Dream]

68. Great post, Nobody. Very interesting take on this subject!

You've obviously thought about this quite a bit.

[Hello_Kitty]

75. Very interesting interpretation of the story

I never thought of it that way. But you really can look at it as god being an authoritarian dictator and Eve saying "Look, I'm not taking your word for it. I'm going to find out for myself!" That's what America was founded upon.

[AllyCat]

61. I'd agree with you. Look at female circumcision in many cultures

They state their reason for doing it it so prevent the women from straying. Who, in most research we have about sex, are most likely to "stray"? Not women, I tell you that.

If men don't want to control themselves in a committed relationship that's one thing. Lets not further punish the women for their indiscretions.

[I Have A Dream]

70. I agree. I think that female circumcision is all about taking away...

the woman's ability to enjoy sex. If you take that away, there's less chance for a woman to stray. (There are other reasons as well, but this is a big one.) Interesting that nothing similar was ever contemplated for men. (What that would be, I don't know.) However, it is men who control these societies, so they make the rules.

Even though women, in my opinion, are less likely to stray, society considers it more problematic when women stray because of the problem of another man's child coming into the man's home. (There's also the fact that in many societies, the woman is considered to be a possession of the man, so when a woman strays, her "owner" feels that something's been stolen from him.)

[ErisFiveFingers]

109. Well, for men...

You might want to check out the history of male circumcision, specifically, the history of such in the US. Interesting stuff.

[I Have A Dream]

111. Yes - I already understand that male circumcision is not a good...

thing either. However, if I understand correctly, it's either done for hygienic reasons or for religious reasons (such as with Jewish men).

Is there evidence that it takes away a man's ability to enjoy sex? (Maybe there's something that I don't understand.) I've never heard of this, and I've never seen any evidence of it.

[ErisFiveFingers]

119. Skin has nerve endings.

Less skin, less nerve endings.

[I Have A Dream]

122. I understand that the net result may be less sensation...

However, I don't believe that this procedure is done on males for the specific purpose of taking away their ability to enjoy sex. I believe that this is the case for what is done to females.

[LeftyMom]

123. Male circumcision was popularized in the US to prevent masturbation

Other, equally stupid justifications (such as the hygine one) came later.

[Kailassa]

80. because the ones that want to keep women down,

both male and female, are gay and have to pretend they're not.

The fundie opposition to gayness can really twist those dominated by it.

edited to make clear this is a reply to Aviation Pro, post 27:

Why do they hate....
...women and vaginas so much?

[elehhhhna]

101. ding ding we have a winner!

[Talismom]

29. Why should this surprise us? All their policies move us back towards the

dark ages!

[Kurovski]

30. "The Culture Of Creepiness" that's what they've officially become.

The nut-jobber fundies have fallen off a cliff, and they think they're flying.

[Canuckistanian]

31. This is the exact article anyone should point out...

... whenever anyone asks, "What's wrong with having a little more religion in our public life?".

[Kber]

32. Death is an appropriate consequence for non-marital sex.

:sarcasm:

Seriously, witholding lifesaving medical treatment is the modern equivalent of taking a women to the villiage outskirts and stoning her to death.

[AllyCat]

62. Good point nt

[BrklynLiberal]

33. "Right To LIFE"..as long as it is IN THE WOMB!!!!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

HYPOCRITE is too kind a description for these people.
There are no adequate words for them. These are the people of whom Mick Jagger sang in "Sympathy for the Devil"

Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
I’ve been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man’s soul and faith
And I was ’round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general’s rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
’cause I’m in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I’ll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, what’s my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what’s my name
I tell you one time, you’re to blame
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
What’s me name
Tell me, baby, what’s my name
Tell me, sweetie, what’s my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah

I am thrilled to be vote #5 so this makes it to the GREATEST page...

[Jose Diablo]

34. The fundamentalists have better ways of dealing with HPV

The old fashioned burkas have proven throughout the ages as the best way to prevent skin contact and thus cervical cancer.

And to help the young women maintain an appropriate personal moral compass, female circumcision will be adopted next.

Truth is, christian men are far far behind the islamic men in dealing with female sexuality, but they are trying very hard to catch-up. It was probably women's sufferage that caused the christian men to be delayed in their development in trying these tried and true ways to keep women in their place.

:eyes:

[Nobody]

69. I know!

Let's abort all female fetuses! No women will ever stray again.

Brought to you by the

Alien Residential Real Estate Agency Relocation Services. We have had several offers on your planet. We can cut you a good deal if you can be gone in less than two generations.

[Maraya1969]

35. IMPORTANT - I had a bout with this and when I went to a holistic

doctor he told me that it would not have happened if I had been taking about 1,000mg of Folic Acid/day. Interesting because doctors now tell women who are thinking of becoming pregnant to take Folic Acid. Maybe it is just good for the female anatomy.

(It was pre-cancerous cells that were removed and I am fine)

[muchacho]

37. The End of Faith

I'm currently reading Sam Harris' "The End of Faith." Though I don't agree with all of his views (including his view on Chomsky) but it does address the roots of fundamentalism and how this type of behavior makes perfect sense in their framework of willful delusion.

A danger to progress and, likely, our survival.

[BiggJawn]

39. Ouch! That hurts!

I read that and automatically started banging my head against the radio console here....

I will now entertain a string of posts claiming "But, they're not REAL Christians!" or "I'm not THAT KIND of Christian"...

Bunch of superstitious, mouth-breathing MORANS! Sex education makes kids want to fuck, condoms make kids want to fuck, rock music makes kids want to fuck, Listening to Howard Dean makes kids want to fuck, Vegemite sandwiches make kids want to fuck, Bill Clinton makes kids want oral sex....

Tell me this, Myth-believers....Did Adam and Eve have sex education? Seems to me they were fucking all the time...

Fundies hate birth control. You wanna know WHY they hate birth control? Because without a swelly belly to point at, they have NO way of knowing for certain if a young woman's been doing IT.

This is outrageous.

[Teena]

41. They are still living in The Dark Age...

...or they want to create a new one.
My doctor told me that they used to think HPV was more prevalent in women who had multiple partners, but recent findings suggest that it is something that just happens to "be there." If there is a vaccine to prevent a cancer that is caused by a virus that just shows up wherever it wants to, we should use it. Citing promiscuity as a consequence of preventative measures, whether it be to prevent pregnancy or cancer, is the same old "saw" they use over and over to keep women in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

[AllyCat]

58. Welcome to DU Teena!

You are right. Many studies I've read put estimates of the infected in the U.S. at 70-80% of the people. Men never know they are infected and most HPV does NOT cause the warts that can be associated with it. Women only find out when they go to get PAP smears and come back with "atypia" or "atypical squamous cells of unknown significance" (ASCUS), or "HPV".

Of course, for many years, they PAP slides were read by people paid by the piece and thousands of women died of cervical cancer. When investigators went back to look at the archived slides, the cancerous cells had been showing up for YEARS and the speed-readers never alerted physicians to the problem.

I'm so sick of the Religious Wrong I could just scream. These people are willing to let people DIE to prove thier sick, cold-hearted, illogical points. Like I said before, a pox on all of them.

[KittyWampus]

42. Now I Understand Why Health Professionals Market This As Anti-Cancer

because to say it prevents a virus that leads to cervical cancer eggs on the Fundies.

It took a while for me to get that.

[cmf]

43. These people are insane.

Don't they freaking know that as many as 50% of all adults catch this virus sometime in their life? And just because little Jane stays a virgin until marriage doesn't mean that her beloved groom Jack did. He could be infected and not even know it. These people are trying to bring us back to the dark ages. To say they make me sick is a huge understatement.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. "Ignorance is the most violent element in society." Emma Goldman

"Ignorance is the most violent element in society." Emma Goldman

[mom cat]

47. And what about rape victims? n/t

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

117. Rape victims are to blame, so sayeth Dobson and all the other fundies

So are we to punish girls who might contract the disease because they are raped? How would an abstinence pledge help a woman about to be raped? Are we to judge them as whores if that was to happen, heaven forbid? The Religious Right says yes, of course. They are the ones who always blame the rape victims as if it was their fault. You hear such classic phrases as "She deserved it, she dressed like a whore" and "she was asking for it" They never condemn the rapist as if he were only an instrument of God's punishment on the woman. They never condemn him because in their vision of society, a patriarchal one, rape is probably a way of discipline or something sick like that. So if she gets cervical cancer that could have been prevented by a vaccine, tough. Let her die. It's her fault she put herself in that situation.

It sounds like I'm exaggerating, but you can go to some priests or other religious leaders and they'll tell you the same thing.

[mom cat]

121. Yes, three year ole rape victims brought it on themselves. These

people are morally depraved and twisted.

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

126. Well judging from the local Christian Coalition leader

who is accused of molesting his three daughters when they were pre-teens, a woman, even a little girl is at the mercy of her father. Since their vision is a patriarchal society, a father can do anything he wants to his daughters, even if the law prohibits it, in the name of discipline or his patriarchal authority. It's the Roman paterfamilias all over again.

Twisted it is, but this is how they view society. Of course there are those who totally want to replace the U.S. Constitution with Biblical law. Perhaps because then they know they can do anything to their families with impunity, even stone their kids when they misbehave.

[politianskissit]

48. Fine! Then don't give the vaccine to any Republicans...

... it might help cull the herd, as they keep breeding like rabbits thanks to the "successes" of their absetinence programs.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

55. Cheers! Great post! n/t

[Olney Blue]

79. LOL! That's funny.

Welcome to DU!

:yourock:

[dogday]

49. When do we expect the chastity belts to come

back in style?x( :mad: :wtf: :hurts:

[McCamy Taylor]

52. These groups are made of people who hate their mothers.

Their goal is to dominate and punish women.

[AllyCat]

56. Sick, sick *ucks. A pox on all of them. HPV can be transmitted during

birth to male AND female children. If the mother has an active case of warts, it is possible to give to the baby while going through the birth canal.

In nursing school, we read a few studies (these are REAL studies in nursing journals and medical journals) that put estimates at the number of people infected with HPV at 80% of the U.S. population.

So the Fundies prefer not to protect:

Women or children who are raped

Married couples who engage in sex, even if only for reproduction and previously virginal if they have been infected at birth

Women whose husbands/partners cheat on them

But yeah, you frickin' Religious Wrong nutballs, lets go ahead and punish ALL women because you can't find it in your cold hearts to protect them from a frequently fatal cancer.

[ClintonTyree]

60. The ignorance of these people never ceases to amaze me.

They're clinging so desperately to their god myth they want to change the hands of time and return to Puritanical days. They won't be happy until young women are wearing "scarlett A"'s and men are the only ones who can vote. All women's rights must be removed for their planned utopia to take shape and they're trying desperately to do that. I'm eternally grateful that these people are a small minority and that THINKING Americans will not allow this to happen.

I keep telling my daughter that "A Handmaid's Tale" scenario is exactly what these people are striving for. Of course, I get the, "yeah, right Dad :eyes: " from her but she's young and thinks things have always been at least close to equal for women in this world. She has no memory of women's struggles over the years to get the equality they deserve. She's even studied them but it still doesn't register, the same as civil rights struggles don't register.

These people are the antithesis of everything Christianity stands for in my opinion and the reason I have eschewed religion since my teens. They must be stopped, their agenda cannot be allowed to progress. Only by moving forward can we solve the problems of today's world, certainly not retreating into the dark ages of superstition and myth.

What the hell are these people so scared of? Maybe I just answered my own question. Hell. They continue to believe in the myths of countless religions that were cherry picked for their best "stories" and then remixed into "Christianity". Heaven and Hell. They actually believe that myth. Very few of these people realize that their "one true religion" is composed of myths from dozens of other pre-existing religions and condensed into one that happened to have a "savior" figure (evident in countless religions before Christianity) that people agreed with and most importantly they could WRITE ABOUT and not have the record expunged from history as so many others had. They're totally ignorant of HOW their religion evolved (tell them that and their heads explode) and only believe in the printed word ( written a few centuries AFTER the fact I may add) as being infallible and unerring. IDIOTS! Blind, stupid idiots! They're so willfully ignorant of the origin of their religion yet so pompously declare it to be "the one true religion"! :puke:

Sorry, I have a low tolerance for stupidity and tend to rant about these asswipes when they do totally stupid shit. Which is always. I'll stop now. :rant:

[ruggerson]

66. These people are evil filth

pure evil filth.

[sakabatou]

71. I bet to them, everything leads to premarital sex

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

73. Not surprised

When a cure for syphlis was found about a century ago there was a big outcry among religiuos conservatives. In those days prostitution was largley tolerated because of the likelyhood of getting an STD. It was only after the likelyhood was reduced that there was an effort to crack down on prostitution.

These people want to make sure people have sex only for the purpose of procreation.

[elehhhhna]

74. My neighbor died a HORRIBLE death last summer with Cerv. Cancer.

TELL HER FUCKIN KIDS WHY THIS VACCINE IS A BAD THING
goddam it my heads gonna explode. I need a grood cry now.

These religiowhackos make me feel very, very violent.

[madmark]

76. In a addition to the "license" aregument being inane, what does

Bridget say to those girls who get raped and contract the virus that could have been prevented by the vaccine. I guess any moron can slap together an entity name and become a self-styled expert that gets media attention.

[Hello_Kitty]

77. It's about punishing women and girls for sex

This totally exposes their "pro-life" lie. Here you have a vaccine that could save lives and they object to it because women might feel freer to have pre-marital sex.

[dretceterini]

78. This reminds me about the joke

about Mormon women..

Why do Morman women stop having children at 39.

Because 40 is just TOO many

....but in all seriousness...why is it OK for women who are associated with fundamentalist women to have as many children as they want (and with some "religions", with as many different fathers as they please) and evil for all other women to have sex?

[hedgehog]

82. Forget the fundies, they aren't the real problem.

I told my doctor that the vaccine had been approved and that I wanted my girls (all virginal and chaste by the way) to have the vaccine ASAP. He very bitterly responded that I had better be prepared to pay $150 a dose because he expects the drug company to price it there and the insurance companies to refuse to cover it!

[NC_Nurse]

83. I have watched many women die from

cervical cancer, despite the best treatment we could give them. Most were young and had fought valiantly through some of the most painful treatments I have ever had to carry out on patients. A lot of young women don't get a pap smear every year...they are busy, forget about it, whatever. Often the tumor is only discovered when they start having bleeding after intercourse or other late symptoms. Then the treatments are radiation implants, mainly SYAD implants and chemotherapies. It's a tough road and even the ones who make it end up with a lot of physical damage from the treatments themselves.

These fundie jerks should have to work on oncology wards for a few years or maybe raise a couple of crack babies before they open their big, stupid mouths.

[savemefromdumbya]

85. HPV not always caused by sex and major connection with head & neck cancer

They might consider vaccinating all people with HPV along with the regular ones such as Rubella etc as this is a major problem for various cancers especially head and neck cancers not only cervical.
_________________________________________________________________

Some research also suggests that genital HPV can be transmitted through nonsexual routes, via fomites — inanimate objects such as towels or underwear — but more research must be conducted to examine these modes of transmission (Carson, 1997; Keller, et al., 1995; Stevens-Simon, et al., 2000).

The virus can also be transmitted from mother to infant during childbirth (Puranen, 1997). — about 2,000 out of every 4 million newborns (Jay & Moscicki, 2000

[Raksha]

86. Personally, I hope they trumpet this agenda from the rooftops!

They will only hasten their own well-deserved marginalization and demise that way, because there is no way they can disguise the inherent misogyny of their position. They can't even say that another life is involved as they can (with some justification) when the issue is abortion. Nope, they can't hide this one behind the "pro-life" fig leaf when it's CLEARLY a matter of the woman's life and health and nothing else. So let 'em just keep on proving to everyone they are the American Taliban.

[cynatnite]

87. This will be the same line they'll use when a cure for AIDS is found...

:banghead: :grr: :banghead:

[Selteri]

88. It is criminal to oppose something like that.

These people are not just proving they are immoral, but they are showing just how much they must truly hate women to fight against something that will stop cancer. As a person who's family has been touched by Cancer twice and it is horrific to watch how it destroys lives. These people are below the most dangerous animal for how they would punish people for their arrogance.

[panzerfaust]

92. Even marriage and the missionary position won't save you

The vaccine “...gives protection against two strains of the human papilloma virus ... which cause 70% of cervical cancer. But most women who are sexually active become infected ... at some time, so girls as young as 10 to 13 will be the target population.”

Remember that any disease is sent as a punishment, or as a trial, from God. Any attempt to prevent (or treat) disease - except by prayer and attonment - is an attempt to thwart the Will Of God. Though it beggars belief that such a powerful and so vindictive a Being could possibly be thwarted by our poor efforts.

None-the-less, the Religious Wrong is not taking chances, and is simply trying to save immortal souls, not transient and worthless lives. For our physical existence simply is the preliminary trial for where we will spend eternity.

Nicht wahr?

[abrupt]

90. wait till it`s one of her own

I wrote Ms Maher a long e-mail when this first came out.
Asking if she had ever had a love one die from cancer?
Of coarse , she did not reply.I can`t stand when these people spout, life threating bullshit to the public and never have to answer to anyone.

[valerief]

93. I bet if you asked a large group of mentally retarded people

if they were against the vaccine, they'd say they were, too. But who cares what mentally retarded people about this? Therefore, who cares what fundies think about it?

[BadgerKid]

95. Great quote

" I know that when I got a tetanus vaccine, the first thing I wanted to do was to run out and play on rusty manure-spreading farm equipment in an effort to get as many puncture wounds as possible."

http://web.morons.org/article.jsp?sectionid=2&id=6554

[Best_man23]

96. The cosmos is expanding every second every day

But the fundies minds are shrinking as they close their eyes and pray.

[Contrary1]

97. Every woman who agrees with this idiotic way of thinking...

should have to endure cryosurgery, not once; but twice, just as both my daughter and I have had to.

I've got news for them. HPV doesn't just occur in those having premarital sex. I guess that means all young females, married or not should practice abstinence, rather than get a vaccine to protect them.

What Morans they are.

[doubleplusgood]

99. fundies opposed anesthesia in 1840's

I heard that when the first practical anesthesia (ether ?) was developed in the 1840's, that some fundie preachers were opposed to it because, in their words, it prevented people from experiencing the pain that God intended them to feel.

[elehhhhna]

102. imagine how these idiots feel about HIV/AIDS patients. Good god.

[put out]

103. To those who say "I'm fine now",

Maybe you are, maybe you are not. That virus hangs around in your body forever. Forever. Just like the herpes virus that causes chicken pox...then gifts you later with shingles. As with the herpes virus that makes a sore on your lip. You might not have an outbreak, but you may be shedding virus which will infect someone you kiss.

I notice that some posters say they were cured of this virus by unconventional means. After they had been treated by medical means. So, most probably, these cured people carry the virus. Thus, they may transmit it to a loved one.

Don't believe you are fine, with this virus. You can get treated once you are diagnosed, and it's not very fun. And, as with most viruses, they do never go away.

My edit, TMI.

[monobrau]

104. The only cure for this thinking

Is a hammer blow delivered to the temple. These vermin are not just going to go away; they are going to have to be dealt with or they will continue spreading their disease.

[and-justice-for-all]

106. FRC can goto HELL

What in the Hell gives this religious terrorist cult the right to impose on such decisions??!! This is bullshit!!
Those Fundamental Imperialist HAVE NO RIGHT into those processes, our health has NOTHING to due with their religion..These people are driving me to the extremes! You know whats going to happen when they do find a vaccine for HIV its going to be the same scenario with these reich-wing nazis...If they could gas people, they would. But whats the difference between gas and invading Civil Rights? Nothing.

The FRC and the Christian Coalition and other christian sects need removed from Lobbying immediately!! And all Congressional that support such terrorist organizations or cults need to be removed from office. These people are not in it for the betterment of society as a whole, they are in it for their own agenda of forced religious principles upon the american society and the world.

Christian fundamentalist are a Cancer and needs cured NOW! They are whats wrong with this country, they are the ones in Satan's hands, they are the ones that support this Holy War in Iraqi, they are the ones that are TRULY UN-AMERICAN!!

For an organization like FRC to detour the Government away from actual life saving medicines and research by means of outlandish persuasion is utterly repulsive.

[Spiffarino]

107. I have to admit, I haven't read the posts to this thread

...because I don't think I could get any more outraged.

This has probably been said many times, but...

You FRC Nazis are out of your fucking minds!

[misternormal]

113. Neither religious or Right...

These are the same people that advocate no condoms for teens... The same people that want sex education out of the schools because that sort of education belongs in the home... The same people who want religion and morality, (Theirs), to govern everything, so why should this be any different.

I remember being a teen, and getting the abstinence talk from my parents... I don't remember much of the talk but it was "Bad, bad, bad... wrong, wrong, wrong... What more incentive does a healthy, curious young adult need to try it out?

The use of this vaccine will give no more a nod to pre-marital sex than the word NO.

They really need to think this out.

I wonder what would have happened had there been a plague vaccine... hmmmm.

[Teena]

114. It'll never happen...

but I'd love for "the right" to really work on reducing the use of one of the worst scourges on societies everywhere - cigarette smoking! My husband and I, as well as our brother-in-law, cannot tolerate cigarette smoke any more. I was just getting over a cold on Friday, exposed myself to cigarette smoke in a bar, and now I'm really sick - worse that I was on Thursday. My husband gets terrible headaches and feels weird from smoke and my brother-in-law's face actually swells up. None of us smokes! Maybe manufacturers are putting something different in them lately to make smokers continue the habit.
I know they'll never do anything about this because tobacco is grown mainly in "red states." No - they just attack people who are trying to prevent cancer of part of a woman's sex organ because then it will reflect their "Christian values", right? Frankly, I'd like to be able to "religiously" breathe whenever I want to!

[bunnyhugger]

118. THERE'S A REASON

at LEAST one....and that's cuz tobacco companies give plenty to republican (and demo, i understand) election accounts.

cigarette smoking is a scourge and our government lets it happen.

HERE-- HAVE SOME CANCER!! BUT WAIT!-- YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, TOO!!

[Dukkha]

115. these people need to be permanently silenced

by ANY means necessary! Ignoring them simply won't make these dangerous psychopaths go away. Extremists need to be dealt with with extreme measures.

[matcom]

120. my wife almost DIED from cervical cancer

c'mon fundies. say this to MY face. i'll fucking KILL you where you stand motherfuckers.

i.dare.you.