Get a grip people. Davis deserved to lose last night

[jeter]

Look I am a Democrat through and through. But this board has become a bore with all these dire predictions regarding the 2004 election as a result of last nights recall.

Arnold won fair and square. Turnout was higher than most Governor's elections for Christ sake. It's probably true that more Republicans voted as compared to Democrats. But not many more. And with the state tilting center-left, it was about even overall.

Davis lost, because he is unpopular. Richard Nixon had a higher approval rating than Davis does now at the height of Watergate.

How did anyone in their right mind believe that Davis was going to win? I always knew he would lose.

I suggested that the Democrats dump Davis, but they didn't.

I suggested that the Democrats run a strong candidate in the second part. But they didn't because it would undermine Davis.

I suggested that the Democrats come out with a platform or plan and compare and contrast that with Arnold's/Republican's (or lack thereof). Instead they wanted to turn this into a referendum on the recall itself.

It became a personality contest, BECAUSE DAVIS MADE IT SUCH. Not the media. Not the republicans. Not anyone. Davis made it an election about Arnold. Arnold made it an election about Davis. Arnold has a 48% approval rating. Davis a 26% approval rating. Davis lost. Arnold won.

Simple as that.

This in no way benefits George W. Bush. The legislature is Democratic. All statewide officials are Democrats. This recall shows the nations desire for change. That affects Bush as well. Yesterday was bad news for Bush.

So stop your bellyaching and get to work.

[Padraig18]

1. I don't see what happened yesterday as a disaster, either. n/t

[jeter]

2. Now we can hit Bush with all the things they hit Davis with

God I hate cry babies. They couldn't see an advantage or possiblity if it bit them in the ass.

[eileen_d]

6. If I could bite you in the ass right now, I would.

It's probably out of reach since you're up on that high horse.

[jeter]

21. Oh eileen-d

Yes. I would prefer to sit around and feel sorry for myself.

Oh, boo hoo, look at me. I am a Democrat. And an idiot Democratic governor, that I always hated, lost yesterday. Oh, boo hoo. It's over. Bush might as well be sworn in now for a second term. Hell, let's make him Emperor. Why? Because a retarded Governor, who thinks of no one but himself, was defeated yesterday.

No thanks. I prefer to see things my way.

[shance]

93. "Oh Jeter", you're a Democrat who has given zilch to DU

and wow, you are telling us to get a grip?

Thats some pretty bold talk there(700 posts) for not donating any money in the kitty to a forum that represents and voices your so dearly held Democratic beliefs.

Instead of attempting to shame us Dems into believing this election was legit, and telling us to get over it, why don't you try either faking atleast to respond like a true Dem would react, or if you are so knowledgeable in the issues facing California, why not run for governor yourself since you think our true Governor was, what was it you called him....um... retarded?

Yeah thats it!

[javadu]

3. I Think This is An Excellent Post

I know that I will be working harder for my guy and hope that the rest of us are working harder for those that they are supporting. All is not lost and we should continue to work hard for our side.

[jeter]

9. Not only is not all lost

But nothing is lost. We lost an unpopular DLC fucker Governor. Nothing more. Who gives a shit about Davis.

[Speed8098]

111. I hate your style, but I agree with your point

You are very gruff and you might get more people that agree with you if you tone it down a little.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Neither do I

What I see is more is needed to be done... and the seeds
of recalls have been planted folks, they are going to
reap what they sow

[Noordam]

5. I agree Davis should have dropped out

Nobody liked him.

[slackmaster]

12. Davis has no sense of party loyalty

And the feeling in the state legislature is mutual. Davis would have been term-limited out of running in '04, so he was no longer of any use to what's left of the old Willie Brown machine.

[Piperay]

39. Right

he should have let Bustamante take his place.

[rudeboy666]

7. Right on!

Post of the day!

[dbt]

8. Ask Bill Clinton what happens

When a Governor "raises" car license fees--and when he/she is seen by voters as not being firm enough with "certain" ethnic groups. He learned his lesson pretty well!

:evilgrin:
dbt

[elperromagico]

84. I remember that election - 1980

Ahh, yes, I remember that. Car tags and Cubans... Frank White came from out of nowhere to beat Clinton in '80, the first Republican to beat an incumbent Democratic governor... uhh... ever.

But Clinton certainly learned his lesson. He came back and hasn't lost an election since.

[Art_from_Ark]

87. Ah, the election of 1980

The Cuban problem-- Where to put "Castro's rejects"? Ah, yes, there's good old underused Fort Chaffee, near Ft. Smith. Never mind that it was a Federal government decision and Clinton had little to do with it.

As for car tags, there was a lot of moaning about that, but personally I had no idea what it was all about.

And finally, there was the Reagan Revolution. Frank White came out of nowhere riding on Reagan's coattails. But two years of "Creation Science Frank" was enough to send him packing. As good reason as any to have kept the governor's term at two years.

[republicansareevil]

10. unpopularity is not a good reason to recall

Should we start recalling candidates every time one's popularity falls below 50%? That's an awful lot of recalls. For some candidates that would be election day since many candidates win with a mere plurality rather than a 50% majority.

[jeter]

13. Well Republicansareevil, who gives a shit if it's a good reason or not?

He lost didn't he. So obviously it is a good enough reason.

[republicansareevil]

17. Okay. I guess I can't argue with that infallible logic.

:eyes: :crazy: :shrug:

[VOX]

47. You're missing the bigger picture here completely, jeter...

Davis won last year in the regular gubernatorial election, didn't he? Fair and square, didn't he?

Well, why didn't the Republicans just let that go? Because this recall was conceived, financed and steamrollered through by REPUBLICANS. It would never have happened if not for the efforts and big money of REPUBLICANS.

Forget about Davis, and think about the disadvantage Democrats now have in 2004 with California tucked under the right wing.

[fizzana]

16. unpopularity is not a good reason to recall but the law allowed

it and the GOP took advantage of it.

BTW, it's been tried 31 times before in California but this is the first time it's ever made it to a vote. The bar is definitely set too low but that's the law we have to live with.

It might make it easier to get Arnold if he blows it.

[CoffeePlease1947]

100. unpopularity-- is an understatment. 27%

OK, I think Saddam had a higher rating than that. Davis was not unpopular, he was HATED. It is only the party and let him get 45% of the vote. He lost to someone that is one step below a rapist. That is how bad it was. I don't think he ever stood a chance.

I don't agree with the recall. But if it had to be anyone, it is best that it was Davis and not a well liked liberal Democrat. Davis was flip-flopped on a lot of issues, he raised the car tax which hurt many poor income familes, and he was for the death penalty. We could of also lost to someone like McClintock that was very conservative and stripped many people of their rights. It was a loss. But it was not that big of loss. We will be OK.

Mike

[Cush]

11. Misdirected Anger

I think thats what someone from the LA Times is calling the whole thing.

[1a2b3c]

14. Someone thought davis should or would win???

Sorry i try to stay out of this forum and in the one that i know best. Its fairly bad when you get recalled so who here thought davis should have won last night? I could see the mentioning of Bustamante....but Davis? Maybe you guys will get your power and money problems fixed now.

[davidinalameda]

15. you're right

Davis should have resigned before the whole damn thing started and let Bustamonte take over when he still could

he cared more about himself than the state or the party

[Classical_Liberal]

18. Exactly

.

[Regice]

19. I agree

Winning or losing a few battles in not the war, and this doesn't help Bush at all.

Part of the reason Davis lost is because he forced people to choose. Voting no on the recall was voting yes on the car tax. A lot of people bought new cars last year. Arnold promised to repeal the tax. People would get hit with a $600-$800 tax that they can't afford to pay. It doesn't really matter to Joe6pack that Arnold won't be able to deliver all that he promised.

Davis did some other unpopular things, and the only person to blame is Davis himself.

[Padraig18]

20. Let's quit staring at our navels

So WHAT if Davis lost??? Did anyone here (except for those of us in Illinois) even NOTICE that our party DECISIVELY took back all THREE branches of state government from the Repukes last November, something we have not done in over THIRTY YEARS? DID YOU??? I thought not...

Gray Davis was a HORRIBLE governor who SHOULD HAVE BEEN RECALED! Who gives a sh*t if some over-developed empty suit cum actor fills in? He'll be toast soon, too.

Pay attention to what Democrats who WIN do, for a change, how about? :wtf:

[Padraig18]

22. Kick

:kick:

[greenwow]

23. How could you possibly claim he deserved to lose?

He got more votes than Arnold! Only due to a cheating technicality did he lose.

[slackmaster]

24. Please explain the "cheating technicality"

As far as I can tell the election was done in accordance with the law. The results show that a majority of voters wanted Davis out no matter which of the alternates was chosen to replace him.

Greenwow says "He got more votes than Arnold!"

Not so. It appears that Arnold Schwarzenegger got more votes than No on the recall measure.

[Padraig18]

26. He was a ROTTEN Governor!

It's THAT simple!

[nini]

50. He did alot of good things under his terms.

I'm trying to find a post by NothingShocksMeAnymore where she listed Davis' accomplishments such as raising the minimum wage, worker rights etc.... If I find it I will post a link to it.. it was a good list of the good things he has done for the people of California

So, he wasn't ROTTEN

[Padraig18]

52. Don't misunderstand, please

I don't mean he was a bad person, or anything remotely similar; I would have voted "No" & Bustamante yesterday, if I had lived in CA. What I meant is that he was a bad politician; the election was his to lose, and lose it he did. I've seldom seen a more poorly-organised campaign.

You can't be 'civil' with these neocon thugs--- you have to kick them in the b*alls, gouge their eyes, rake your nails across their face and be willing to rip their hearts out and eat it while it's still beating. Davis didn't do that, and neither did the Democrats in CA.

[nini]

73. I'm not sure they did such a bad job considering the media

The media is the main problem in this country right now. When you have them in your back pocket you can get away with just about anything while your opponent fights just to be heard - only to be shot down by the media.


If you're a repuke and aggressive your strong, If you're a dem and aggressive you run a negative campaign.

etc..


This whole fiasco was stacked against him. We as citizens of this country and state MUST make sure people are informed. We are fighting corporate media and it won't be easy. We need to send emails to everyone we know giving them the truth and figure out other ways to get around the media whores. Until we do so, we will not see the populace make wise decisions.

[Padraig18]

75. My question

Why couldn't Davis have just resigned, and saved the governorship? Some times you have to sacrifice the one, to save the many.

[nini]

113. Probably on principle

Think of the message that would have sent. Gather enough money, get the signatures and ok.. I'll leave now because some of you are after me.

I know what you're saying, but ultimately you can't just cave and run when a group goes against you.

[Art_from_Ark]

90. So, you don't live in California

and yet you know, "simple as that", that he was a "rotten" governor.
Yeah. Uh-huh.

[Padraig18]

107. Your sarcasm is noted

As is your lack of a substantive rebuttal.

[jeter]

115. I just moved back from CA in July

Simple as that.

[Classical_Liberal]

27. What concrete proof do you have?

Other than there is no proof he didn't. This isn't Florida. The exit polling was showing a massive loss, unlike Florida.

[joefree1]

25. Uhm, we did loose

Stop your bellyaching. Where was this popular Democrat. Davis sucked but Bustamante was there. Did you work for him? Then who?

Easy to tear down our fight but who are you defending. Aunald has three years to f*ck us Democrats.

Unless we're faster. And I'm already working.

Get over it? I don't think so.

11x17 size free download on my web page:
http://darrias.com/small_art/smallart.html

California Democrats for the Recall of Aunald meet here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=3018

Totally Recall Arnold Schwarzenegger Petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/schwarze/petition.html

[VOX]

28. It's not about Davis, dammit, it's about the GOP coup!

I'm not crazy about Gray Davis (who is?), but that's not the point here. This whole mess was never really *about* Gray Davis. Do you honestly believe that the Republicans want to set themselves up in California to actually *help* the state? Sorry, but I just don't see anything altruistic in the GOP's methods or goals.

There is a very disturbing pattern that has emerged over the last few years -- Republicans don't give a shit about legitimate elections, whether it means getting their stooges on the Supreme Court to strike them down, or if it means redistricting a state, or if it means pursuing some obscure, dust-encrusted law on the old books. Over, under, around or through, they're turning the politics of this country into a one-party system.

The moment Davis won the election a year ago, the right wing sat down to get those "fair and square" results reversed. They got a cash infusion of $1+ million from a car thief, and paid a bounty for every signature obtained on their petitions. They got another "perfect" candidate for their coup -- a man with no ideas, no experience, no plan, no unscripted debating, no qualifications -- rather, their candidate has a distinct public image as a cartoonish action hero, all surface gloss and no substance, with a bottomless cash war chest. And who managed this GOP "campaign?" *Pete Wilson*, the failure of a Repub governor who Gray Davis beat back in 1998.

It took them a year, but the GOP just overturned the results of last year's legitimate election in California. This does not bode well for the 2004 presidential election. The GOP now holds the reins in the richest electoral-vote states. Their fundraising machinery will be working overtime. Before yesterday's election, the GOP had written off California. They won't next time. It won't be long before our new gov goes on the stump for Bush, and why shouldn't he? He's a Bush family friend, he worked for poppy, he met with Kenny Lay at the height of the energy crisis. And you don't need a crystal ball to see that Arnold will be a featured player at the GOP's star-spangled ground-zero convention in NYC '04. I'm betting that *Bush will have a photo-op with Arnold before this month is over.

You state that you're a "Democrat through and through," but if all this right-wing manipulation and exploitation doesn't piss you off, then I'd recommend some soul-searching.

edit: typos

[Classical_Liberal]

29. Bush is so unpopular in California because of Enron

that if he stole it, it would be obvious. That is the reason why dumb Davis should have linked him to Enron instead of doing the scandal dance.

[Padraig18]

30. I'm pissed off

But there is NO denying that the people of CA decisively rejected Gray Davis' leadership yesterday, is there? Be concerned about the Repuke tactics, certainly, but don't ignore the message, either. It's time for the Dems in Sacramento to get their sh*t together and solve the problem with the budget--- no smoke and mirrors, either. THAT will impress the voters next November.

[jeter]

72. GOP coup...blah, blah, blah

So Davis should take no responsibility?

We shouldn't either for supporting the idiot?

HE WAS VERY UNPOPULAR. That's why the recall succeeded. If he hadn't been, then like Clinton in 98 he would have survived.

Newsflash: Republicans want power. What is this a surprise to you? It doesn't surprise me. Because I live in the real world.

This in no way reflects 2004. If anything, it works in our favor.

- Davis DID give illegals drivers licences (which was opposed by a majority of Latinos BTW)

- Davis DID raise taxes (tripling them in some cases) on automobiles.

- Davis WAS the one who didn't do anything during the Energy Crisis.

- Davis WAS the one who waited until the last moment to do anything about the budget deficit.

- Davis DID run a lousy campaign. He offered no hope or solutions to the problems only more of the same bullshit attacks. The same type of attacks we criticized the GOP for against Clinton.

I think people are pulling the wool over their eyes. They see what they want to see and are easily distracted. Gray Davis deserved to lose because the people of California said so. That this is GOP inspired is irrelevant. They just took advantage of it, just like we would.

How many people here believe that if say George Pataki were being recalled and we had a chance to beat him, that we wouldn't because he was "fairly elected" last year. No one would say this.

I won't spend another minute defending Davis. He doesn't deserve it. He is selfish, unorganized, and just plain stupid. He WAS A LOUSY GOVERNOR. A Governor has to lead - and he hadn't led. Democrats abandonned him, Independants rejected him and the GOP took advantage. That's what happened. Don't turn it into something it is not.

There was positive news coming out of last nights recall. Namely that people are itching for change. Let's use that in 2004. Instead of crying about California in 2003. Because guess what - it won't have any effect in 2004.

[Zhade]

101. You are incorrect regarding the energy "crisis" (which was a hoax)

Davis WAS the one who didn't do anything during the Energy Crisis.

Wrong. I live in California. He was not sitting idly by while we were savaged by Bush's corporate friends.


When power shortages began in the summer of 2000 and wholesale power prices tripled, Davis immediately accused generators of gouging electricity customers. State regulators cited indications of price manipulation and deliberate withholding of power supplies by generators. In response, the governor demanded that FERC impose price ceilings on generators' prices.

His pleas went unanswered for more than a year. A solid majority of FERC's commissioners, Democrats and Republicans chosen by then-President Bill Clinton, were ideologically committed to California's electricity deregulation program, the first in the nation. Imposing price controls would brand the California plan a failure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A37482-2003Aug23¬Found=true


In May 2001, during the peak of California’s energy crisis, Gov. Gray Davis met with Bush at a Los Angeles hotel to ask for federal assistance, such as price caps, to rein in soaring energy prices. Bush refused, saying California legislators designed an electricity market that left too many regulatory restrictions in place and that’s what caused electricity prices in the state to skyrocket.

<SNIP>

Moreover, in March 2001, while the energy policy was being drafted, while Davis was accusing energy companies of withholding electricity supplies from the state and while Cheney was meeting with Lay and other heavyweights in the energy industry, Tulsa, Okla., based-Williams Companies entered into a confidential settlement with FERC agreeing to refund California $8 million in profits it reaped by deliberately shutting down one of its power plants in the state in the spring of 2000 to drive up the wholesale price of electricity in California.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0303/S00252.htm


Governor Davis has been joined by the governors of Oregon and Washington and by nationally known economists in calling on FERC to approve temporary price caps to give the new generation we are building time to come on line and to allow the other market reforms he has instituted a chance to work.

http://www.iamaw.org/territories.asp?c=1476 (June 10, 2001)


Governor Davis proposes a bit of re-regulation and government purchase of more of the power system. (The public already owns the Los Angeles electricity and water system which – no surprise – is not in ‘crisis.’) In other words, Davis’s cure is one part realism, one part populism and one part so-she-lizm.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=81&row=1


Bush and Cheney responded personally to California Gov. Gray Davis' cries for help in May of 2001 by saying the crisis was the result of California's poorly designed power market, which left some regulatory restrictions in place. Although that is partially true, it's now become apparent that energy companies bear most of the blame.

http://www.counterpunch.org/leopold02032003.html


No. Davis was not perfect. But it's misleading - and wrong - to claim he did nothing while Enron raped us here in California. As is a matter of public record, Davis repeatedly tried to get price caps to fight what he knew and later was proven to be price-fixing.

[uhhuh]

106. Let's have it

I would like to see a link to every one of your assertions. I am tired of hearing the RW talking points with nothing to back them up. I've been here in California listening to them non stop for three months.

1) I would like a link demonstrating that the majority of latinos opposed licensing dangerous, illegal immigrant drivers. The initiative did not originate with Davis, he just signed it after he was convinced it would be better to get people familiar with how to drive and require them to pass a test to be on the road, by the way.

2) I would like you explain how it was Davis who originated the car tax, rather than Wilson, who put in the provision that it would be raised if the conditions we are now in were met. Remember your links, please.

3) I would like a link showing that Davis didn't try to do anything during the energy crisis, like appealing to the chimp to enact regulatory controls on the outrageous inflation of energy prices by the chimp's buddies at Enron and the like.

4) how about an article about Davis doing nothing about the budget deficit, which has to be passed by a 2/3 majority in order to be enacted? Are you saying he could have single-handedly "pumped up" a 2/3 majority in the Legislature with a large republican contingent? Show me how?

5) Rather than pointing out, line by line, all the false information that was presented day in and day out in every local media outlet in every area of the state that I have spoken to people in, why don't you provide something more than an opinion about the Failures of Davis and present some facts? None of what you pointed out as his faults, other than he didn't get out a message, is true, and the reason he didn't get out a message is beacause he and Cruz( who was elected totally separately from Davis, so I don't know why people think they have any connection to each other) were sytematically drowned out of any real opportunity to get their voices heard.

[Zhade]

97. DAMN STRAIGHT. I couldn't have said it better myself.

NT!

[Taxi Driver]

31. Gray Davis is an embarrassment.

He made us look very bad. Bustamante ran a joke campaign. Is he stupid? "Tough Love for California" was the most idiotic campaign agenda I had ever heard.

We should have gotten Feinstein to run.

[Padraig18]

32. Kick

:kick:

[nini]

33. Then he should've been voted out last November!

it wasn't about Davis in my mind.. it was the fucking election we had not even one year ago that can be thrown out the window because the other side couldn't put up anyone to beat him at the time.

this is a dangerous, dangerous precendent to screw around with the electoral process and THAT IS WHAT PISSES ME OFF!

[slackmaster]

34. The recall system has been in place since 1911

This is not something new and menacing. It's just the first time it's been used successfully against a governor of California.

[nini]

37. I know that...

I also know it was a obscure, poorly written law that was not meant to overturn elections as much as have the ability to recall a governor who may have committed a crime etc..

As far as I know Davis' biggest problem is not being a Republican and a puppet for Bush.

I don't give a shit that he isnt' Mr. Personality or that he wasn't the perfect answer to all... the system was abused and I stand by my statement it is a dangerous precedence to start screwing around with stuff like this.

[slackmaster]

58. Sorry, it's clear that you are misinformed about the purpose of CA recalls

...not meant to overturn elections as much as have the ability to recall a governor who may have committed a crime etc.

That is incorrect. The purpose was to allow people to shit-can any politician who wasn't doing the job they hired him or her to do FOR WHATEVER REASON. The recall provision in the state constitution requires assertion of a reason for a recall, but the reason is "not subject to review" by anyone.

As far as I know Davis' biggest problem is not being a Republican and a puppet for Bush.

In a state where Bush was soundly defeated in the 2000 Presidential election? A state where over 43% of voters are registered as Democrats? A state where 2/3 of both houses of the state legislature are all Democrats?

I don't buy it.

[nini]

66. Sorry.. I know what the intent was here.

does it make you feel better if I saw I believe they took advantage of the stupid ass law?

starting the recall about 2 months after the last election and shortly after the gov. was sworn in is hardly giving him enough time to do the job he was elected to do so I will never believe the goal was anything other than a power grab.

I am not arguing the existence of this law. I am saying it was abused.

I'm saying it is a bad precedent to do this kind of shit. Unless the reason is severe enough to justify it the state of California could be in a state of constant turmoil with recall after every election.

[Padraig18]

70. No disagreement with that.... n/t

[slackmaster]

82. No, that doesn't make me feel any better

It's not a stupid ass law. It's a VERY FUCKING POWERFUL tool of direct democracy that can be used for both good and bad purposes. In this case it was used for a mediocre purpose.

You wouldn't take away a fireman's axe just because he once chopped open a door that wasn't even locked, would you?

[Zhade]

102. Totally agree.

NT!

[VOX]

40. Yes. And it took GOP million$ to make it finally work...

Most everyone here is missing the big picture. Yes, Gray Davis wasn't particularly good at projecting a positive public image, and he lacked charisma.

But it's NOT about Gray Davis. The GOP MADE this election happen! And now they hold the reins in yet another electoral vote-rich state.

[slackmaster]

59. There are plenty of wealthy Democrats here too

Nobody is going to buy the idea that it was just money. If that's all it takes maybe someone like Barbara Streisand or Susan Sarandon can spare a million or two to get another recall going once things settle down.

[VOX]

92. The recall was a concerted *partisan* effort to remove a Democrat...

from a legitimately elected office. It wasn't some benign mechanism that just kicked in at a particular time.

If Republicans hadn't put up the millions, AND hired the manpower AND bankrolled the organization, this recall never would have taken place.
It's not only the money, it's the right-wing determination to undo legitimate elections, whether by partisan supreme court justices, or redistricting, or by disenfranchising blocs of voters, or by recall.

The right-wing money *enabled* the whole thing. Of course there are wealthy Democrats -- but then they weren't trying to recall Davis now, were they?

[slackmaster]

110. It works both ways

The right-wing money *enabled* the whole thing. Of course there are wealthy Democrats -- but then they weren't trying to recall Davis now, were they?

Are you saying the left is incapable of doing exactly the same thing?

[Zhade]

103. Sure - if there was still a free press, or a multi-party system.

The VRWC, which clearly exists, has the tools in hand.

We don't.

They can force a recall. We currently can't even force a reCOUNT.

[diplomats]

35. Excellent post, jeter

I don't believe this helps Bush, either. Davis was a terrible governor, so he lost. Hell, even Dem voters disapproved of him. Why he was defeated is no big mystery.

[Padraig18]

36. Exactly!

:thumbsup:

[Redleg]

38. Fair and square? The recall was bogus and Davis was blamed

for things beyond his control (high energy prices, sinking economy, etc.). Not to mention the steady right-wing attack and lies against Davis. Sure, I'll grant that Davis is not a real charismatic guy but would you rather have a movie star Republican and alleged groper as governor?

[ibegurpard]

41. If this was a regular election I would agree with the original poster

But this was a right-wing sponsored recall...I don't care whether it was legal or not, there was no justification for it. You don't just recall an elected official because they're not popular. Davis may have been a shit but Californians had the opportunity to vote him out in 3 more years. If they don't like that then they should amend the constitution to make governor's terms shorter. Recall should be reserved for criminal wrongdoing or fraud, IMHO.

[Padraig18]

44. No argument

It shouldn't have been used the way it was, but it was, nonetheless, and the People of California spoke last night, for good or ill. *shrug*

[Classical_Liberal]

45. You can recall a governer just because he is unpopular in California

Besides we're going to recall Arnie so what good does it do to maintian this farce.

[Padraig18]

46. 2 pieces of Chicago ward politics advice:

1. Never step in front of a perfectly good train wreck.

2. If you go after him, take him DOWN, because there is NOTHING more dangerous than a wounded animal.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

[VOX]

42. Thanks, redleg, for seeing the bigger picture...

This narrow-minded "anti-Davis" thread was about to give me a stroke!

:toast:

[Pastiche423]

71. Thank YOU, rezmutt!

I, too, couldn't believe my eyes when reading the original post and most that followed.

Has everyone forgotten the Three R's?

Recount
Redistricting
Recall

All brought to us by the fucking Republicans!

For the people, on this thread, that are centering on Davis, WHY???

Have you not been paying attention?

Jezes crimminy shit!

[Classical_Liberal]

43. All politicians get blamed for those things

California's recall was constitutional. Nothing illegal about it.

[Redleg]

81. That doesn't mean it's ethical.

Do you think the Repubs that initiated the recall petition did it for the good of the people of California or for the good of their own party?

[Classical_Liberal]

108. They probably conflate the two

. It's good for the people they know.

[jeter]

76. Redleg, beyond his control?

That's Davis' problem. He accepts responsibility for nothing. It's not that the budget or energy crises were his fault. I agree, they were not. It's that he waited SO LONG to address them. And when he finally did, he offered no solutions. Only platitudes hoping the issues would get off the front pages.

He ignored his constituency throughout his entire governorship. Only when he needed them did he come calling.

So why should anyone support him? What reasons has he given. He never worked on the legislature which was Democratic. He signed those bills into laws (the ones he mentioned last night), but he hardly initiated them. There's a reason Democrats abandoned him in California. Because he sucked. He was a fundraising machine and nothing more. An empty suit.

And all you can see is GOP GOP GOP. Sure they wanted the CA governorship. Sure they initated and financed the recall. But they were irrelevant in the scheme of things. Had Davis not been a shithead and actually done his job, a) there would be no recall; b) if there had been, it would have been defeated.

You can't blame republicans for being republicans, anymore than you can blame snakes for being snakes. But Davis was a shit governor.

He's the one who should take responsibility for what happened last night.

[Redleg]

80. I didn't say everything was beyond his control.

I just pointed out that the big economic issues with which he got beaten over the head were largely beyond his control. Californians liked him enough to vote for him last November. The only thing that has changed since then is the daily, incessant Republican rants about getting rid of Davis.

Sure, Davis may not be a charismatic guy or even a likable person. Is that reason enough to put some clown like Arnold in office?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demgrrrll]

49. I heart skittles n/t.

[KamaAina]

51. That does NOT imply that Schicklgroper deserved to win.

If people had been thinking rationally, and not blinded by the celebrity/media spotlight, they could have expressed their displeasure with Davis by voting in Bustamante to replace him, while still avoiding a Repuke/Fascist takeover.

But nooooooooooooo! They were led down the garden path into electing a bad actor turned Repuke as Governor. Sound familiar? It should...

:scared:

(actually Raygun was a better actor than Schicklgroper :-) )

[frank frankly]

53. right-o

right on, brother!

[Carolina]

54. if Davis deserved this

after having won, fair and square, last November, then what do you have to say about Bush who didn't win in 2000 and has consistently lied about everything of import to the people ever since his installation. Davis didn't deserve this recall, Bush did and does, and no matter how you slice it, it was wrong. I was despondent last night and still am now because in the context of history, remember it was California that gave us Nixon and Reagan. So flame Davis all you want but beware the consequences of your justification of his ouster. If Orrin Hatch has his way and toys with the Constitution, Arnold may try to follow in another CA governor's footsteps. Heaven forbid

[Taxi Driver]

55. Your post read my mind.

Instead of contrasting a progressive platform with Arnold's non-platform we got Davis running a personality campaign WITH THE BIGGEST ACTION STAR IN THE WORLD. And then there was the sexual assault issue. That could and SHOULD have been pulled up MUCH earlier.

Davis (or his campaign at least) was pathetic. The night before the election he went on Larry King looking like he was about to put a bullet in his own head. He should have resigned (saving us the pain of the recall), or someone more popular than Bustamante (say... Feinstein? yeah, she said no; but Bustamante as Lt. Gov. is basically Davis's right-hand man. In other words, those dissatisfied with Davis would not have a Democratic candidate to look at).

I think we should "stop bellyaching" too. This will have no effect on the presidential election because in one year, Arnold will not be riding high. If Davis had stayed, Bush would've been able to capitalize on Davis's unpopularity. And yes, the recall does show that the nation wants change.

[AP]

56. I disagree with just about everything in this post.

...

[linazelle]

83. I disagree as well

First and foremost, the post misses the primary point of the impact of this win on the '04 election. For jeter to repeatedly deny that this is a non issue is suspect.

Also for jeter (I hope I'm spelling the screen name correctly) to repeatedly criticize Davis without balancing the criticism with the causes for his failures is also biased.

I don't appreciate this bashing and flame baiting.

[Deja Q]

57. I agree wholeheartedly, and yet...

the Californians chose Arnold out of 138 candidates? They chose Arnold despite his tawdry shameful excuse of groping women et al? These same voters who voted for Shchwarzzie had better have not been against Clinton in 1998. That's my problem, Schwarzzie is far worse than Clinton and yet nobody cared this time. Especially the republican party who was all for Arnold.

[Cheswick2.0]

60. no he didn't

what a deumb thing to say!

[Selwynn]

61. Well most won't like what you say, but I totally agree (nt)

[VermontDem2004]

62. isn't this against the new rules?

BECAUSE DAVIS MADE IT SUCH.

Doesn't this fall under excessive capitalization.

[Donna Zen]

63. BUT.. we did not deserve to lose!

A party is a group of people...not one person. There was a team that worked with Davis, there is machinery at the state level that the Dems no longer control.

And beyond that, many of the problems that Davis was blamed for had little to do with him and much to do with jacked-up energy prices and the bushistas policy.

So Davis....I was never impressed, but did the party need and deserve this quake? Well, we are the party...so did we deserve this?

[Carolina]

68. exactly

see my post #54, above. Neither Davis nor the Democratic Party deserved this recall and all the changes it now brings into effect!

[jeter]

77. Donna, I agree -

Our ideas are better. Our party is better. We lost because we threw our support behind Davis. We let him lead us. And he led us into the toilet.

[roguevalley]

64. the freepers are talking about how to come here,

run up a few hundred posts here in this forum
and then 'tweak' here and there. The big finale
for these impeccably lame and lifeless fratties
is to 'unmask' themselves after the 2004
election and gloat.

Unbelievable.

[Taxi Driver]

65. Are you implying that the original poster

is a freeper? If that's what you're doing; it's against the rules.

I don't think you're a freeper if you objectively state that Davis's campaign was lackluster.

[Selwynn]

67. Give me a f*cking break. (nt)

[nini]

74. BRING 'EM ON!

stupid ass idiots.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

88. roguevalley...i hear ya

[Junkdrawer]

69. Sorry, wrong number...

You dialed d e m o c r a t i c u n d e r g r o u n d . c o m.

Please try again or call your operator for assistance.

[Undemcided]

79. The car tax killed him.

It pissed off a lot of people who generally don't pay any attention to politics.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

85. get a grip Gore deserved to lose in 2000...do you hear yourself????

jays'us...with dems like this who needs repukes!

[Thelakedoctor]

86. Davis was a selfish ass

He should've bowed out and let Bustamante take over.

But nooooo It was about his legacy and now he is paying for it.

CA will to with that ring winger now in charge.

[Art_from_Ark]

89. Yeah, that's the ticket, just bow out when you're unpopular

Hell, why doesn't everyone who is unpopular "just bow out" and let someone else take over?

:eyes:

[jeter]

91. The alternative is watching the ship sink

and everyone dying.

Davis is selfish. Because we were stuck defending his sorry ass. And he even ran a shitty campaign.

Isn't it just possible that some elected Democrats just don't deserve to be in power?

Jesus, Davis was hardly a liberal.

[Pastiche423]

94. Unbelievable!

You do not live in California. Hell, you don't even live in the United States. You ignore the posters on this thread that know what the recall was all about. And yet at this late date (post #90), you are still blathering on that it was Davis' fault!

lol!

The recall was just one more RETHUG grab!

[jeter]

116. Yes I do live in the United States

I grew up in Canada. Moved to US at 15. Born in MA and lived there until I was three. Lived in Toronto area until I was 15. Moved to Buffalo area and lived there until I was 22. Went to college in MA. And lived in California for the past two and a half years. Moved back to upstate NY in July.

[Djinn]

95. I know nothing about Davis

not being american let alone californian I'd never heard of him until a few weeks ago - but I seriously doubt he was soooo bad at his job that the state's position would be improved by being run by a boorish simpleton who knows NOTHING about politics (if it could Rush Limbaugh should be Prez)

There is one thing I often wonder about americans though, and it's been prompted by a few posts in this thread describing why people didn't like Davis and it seems to come down to "my taxes went up"

What is it with you guys that you seem to see taxes as almost akin to satan himself? I mean taxes get a going over everywhere and everyone whinges but how do all the “no new taxes” “don’t raise taxes” people think the govt gets it’s money?? Who pays for schools, hospitals etc

What so wrong with tax? - I pay 30% of my low to average wage in tax but if I and others like me didn’t I wouldn’t have been able to get a really good PUBLIC education, I wouldn’t now be working in a clean, highly technological and brilliantly staffed public hospital (where no-one asks if you have insurance) and I wouldn’t be driving home on decent well lit roads.

And what exactly is Arnie going to do? raise taxes or cut services? surely it has to be or the other - or is he just going to continue spouting vapid soundbites about his last lame arse movie for the next few years

[charlie]

98. Considering the unabashed nationwide

media boosterism for Governor Arnie, I can easily imagine the next act in this deranged play would be that the honest Mr Schwarzenegger is unable to enact his agenda for Golden State Utopia because of recalcitrant Dems in Sacramento. The Throw the Bums Out fervor that fueled this mess can be extended to the state capital. Possible second term for Arnie, Dems in trouble. Jeter starts another thread telling us they deserved to get bounced too.

[Zhade]

105. Well, damn, can we expect BushCo to get lost, then? HA!

:)

[Zhade]

104. Um. Just so you know, you misspelled "America" in your sig...

NT!

[Zhade]

96. My 2002 vote was invalidated. How's THAT for democracy?

NT!

[stickdog]

99. Exactly. (NT)

[CWebster]

109. Democrats were in a bind

They were forced to back the unpopular and exceptionally untalented politician, Davis, to oppose the Republican recall effort undermining Democracy. Again.

[scots]

112. it's nice...

Nice to see a sensible post there. Davis was a weasel. Nothing else. No amount of plotting, scheming, or planning can change that. If you don't want things like this to happen, don't run candidates who make the masses want to punch them in the face.

[fizzana]

114. How Davis could have won the recall vote

Instead of signing the car tax increase which was mandated by previous legislation he should have refused to sign it and very publically said that while California is in a fiscal crisis he's not going to try and solve it on the backs of hard working Califirnians.

I guarantee you it would have worked.

There are many conflicting stories about the car tax and some include the belief that Davis had no choice. I don't buy that. If he had flat out refused to sign the tax what could have happened? Other than that he might still be governor, I've yet to find an answer to that question.

[Clete]

117. Davis didn't deserve to be recalled.

Half of the registered Democrats did not vote. 65% of the registered Republicans did. Now I don't know if there were disenfranchised Democratic voters in poorer areas than in the more affluent Republican areas, but I think it should be investigated because Democrats are still the majority in California.

The tone of your post suggests to me that you voted for the recall. Did you? You don't have to answer of course, but if you believed he should have been recalled, then you shouldn't have a problem saying it.