It's our school not your church

[DanCa]

My grandpa used to say that "there's a time and a place for everything." I fully support anyones right to practice religion however I think that same right applies to me. "Who was it that said your rights end where my nose begin?" I am at a loss for the name right now.

Anyhow the fundamentalist forget that ID is all ready being taught in school. Thier schools and churches every sunday. And thier is reference material and public libraries and on the internet and that's where it belongs. Any more than that amounts to a conversion course and my skin just bristles at the thought.

If the fundies are so scared about public "loosing" religion in public life why not simply isnt longer sunday school programs after thier mega church services or even work out some kind of bush program for kids in the area and give them free id design classes in thier schools that want that thing.

All it seems to me is that they keep on pushing the enevolope and try to convert people to their backward political and social agenda. And note I went to public school and no one stopped me from wearring a cross on my head on ash wed or other such hyped nonsene. Its just right wing scare nonsense. Anyhow end of sermnon. I hope your all have a gentle night, Its getting uglier each day.

[Az]

1. Its a battle for survival

Simply put a progressive society combined with a scientific advances is threatening to their form of belief. They really have no choice. They literally perceive things that do not agree with their beliefs as evil.

Something has to give. Either their way of believing fails and gives way to a more open minded liberal form of Christianity or they rise up and knock down the forces that are threatening them. They will try it through power and government first. But failing that they will seek to destroy the government and then fight the battles at a local level.

[DanCa]

3. Will didnt Albert Einstein believe in god?

There really isnt any compromising with the fundies any more is there? I mean I would rather have my kid learn in extra forty five minutes of math a day, or english or history than I.D. Note I organized bible study and Intelligent Design is just a trojan horse anti choice spring board to get the gop plat form into public schools. Kind of like reganomics in economics classes.

[greyl]

9. Yes, one that transcends reality, not that thumbs it's nose at it.

[mr blur]

10. Einstein was a genius - doesn't mean he was smart (nt)

[Az]

13. Actually Einstein did not believe in god

He even felt it necissary to set the record straight about it in public. He did refer to god in a metaphorical sense on occaisions to make a point. But he was quite firm in his position conerning a personal god.

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

[DanCa]

14. My appologies i heard ron reagan jr say that on connected today.

Was it true that he flunked out of school?

[Az]

15. A lot of confusion over that

The legend is he failed math in grade school. This is not true. He did have problems with Greek and Latin. It is not known whether this resulted in him flunking or not. He later went to college in Switzerland and got relatively fair grades. It is worth noting that he got an F in Physical Experiments for Beginners.

[greyl]

16. He was clear about a "personal" god.

He made that distinction. So what did he leave undefined?

What other concepts of god are there which he may have thought knowledge isn't out there to be found about?

To be clear, Einstein didn't think salvationist religions - those with prophets and miracles - were worthy of belief.
Wouldn't any inclusive critique of Eintein's ideas about the concept of "god" would revolve around semantics and tangents about the character of human consciousness?

I think Einstein was an animist with details. :)

[Az]

17. He danced around the concept

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J. Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3.

I suspect even Einstein worried about the public's opinion of atheists and thus provided comments that would suggest to some that he believed in god.

[greyl]

18. "He danced around the concept"

Ahh, nicely put.

[greyl]

6. The 'weapons' we will use are reason and logic, but

we also must offer a pragmatic vision that replaces their failing one.
__________________

Didn't you present a false dilemma?

[DanCa]

8. How so

:confused: If i did it was unintentional

[greyl]

11. I think you mistook my reply to someone else as a reply to you. ?

[DanCa]

12. yeah lol i did its 3.oo am accidents happen. lol. (nt)

[greyl]

2. I love that!

"It's our school not your church"
Nice. :)

[DanCa]

4. Thanks i am not a psych meds right .

Functioning normally for a while. :D

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Yep

I agree. I get really tired of it myself. *sigh* And even when it does happen (if it does) they still won't be happy because people will rebel.

[DanCa]

7. The next answer rally should be right on the steps of the bishop council

Now that will say something

[DarkTirade]

19. I think the quote was

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. :) Or something like that. I don't know who said it.

[Name removed]

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[DarkTirade]

21. Exunctly

Their right to teach their religion ends where our children learn about actual SCIENCE.
Religion belongs in history, mythology, and anthropology classes. And bits and pieces in music and literature, mostly (once again) in the history portions of the two. That's it.

[Zhade]

25. Shucks, they sure are, pardner!

[NMMNG]

26. And your point is?

[NMMNG]

22. Indeed

The fundies would be up in arms if somebody tried to teach math, English, or (perish the thought) sex-ed in their church or Christian school. So why do they insist on having religion taught in public schools? They just want to have it all. :eyes:

[alphafemale]

23. What they really fear is "Critical Thinking"

Anyone capable of that is less likely to be prey to "Group Think," which is a large part of Fundamentalist type religions.

[Name removed]

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