So am I the only person who simultaneously thinks that...

[Der Blaue Engel]

...Dem bashing sucks and is counterproductive,

AND

...we do not need to move to the center or give up on GLBT and reproductive rights in order to win elections?

Is it not possible to be a lefty progressive and still hate seeing Democrats trashed for every imagined slight while the Bush cabal is raping us all?

After reading some of the threads here today, I'm beginning to think I'm a freak. (Hey! Don't answer that! :P )

edited for typo

[murielm99]

1. You are not a freak.

And thank you for this post.

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. Thank you

and you're welcome. :)

[mestup]

2. The left needs to hijack the "family values" mantra right now!

I know I keep saying this, but...

Go after the largest percentage of voters in the US - the non voters. They need to talk tough about single payer healthcare, wages, the environment and education. These are today's "family values," regardless of anyone's position on abortion or gay marriage or whatever money-making wedge issue they've been using.

I lean very socialist, but I see no reason in attacking left of, center, or right of - Dems.

In this quasi-two party system, Dems are the only game in town.

Democratic Socialists of America
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

[Der Blaue Engel]

4. "In this quasi-two pary system, Dems are the only game in town"

Too true!

And we've got to work to get the game to go in our favor instead of refusing to play.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. We need to go to war

and we have not... yes...

[DarkTirade]

10. I've never understood why

we haven't long ago. We value all families, not just white straight christian ones.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I think bashing is counter productive

good solid criticism is needed though, the pugs are at war, we are at best case engaged in recon ...

;-)

and there are several elephants in teh room, one of them is... the desire to move to the center, which is far to the right of where the center was in 1992... that is what we have gotten for our continous move to the center

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Criticism, yes, as long as it's directed at change

and not mere mud-slinging.

I've had to put an awful lot of people on Ignore today, and interestingly, a number of my Ignore list is already tombstoned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I try to be constructive,

one thing that I learned many years ago from product development: You don't offer the critique without the solution.

One solution right now... first we need to address the elephants, the first one is perception, (perception is reality), the second, and I do believe this in my heart the DLC is more of a liability today than good, and we need to find a new way of raising money that will allow us to get around the corporate money structure

I want the members of the party to fully participate with the base

Oh and stop the attacks on the progressives or the progressives will go to war... in many ways the country is ready for the progressive and populist message, that is my feeling.

now in the pie in the sky category

1.- Finance reform, and publicly funded elections (ask for the sky what is left here?)

2.- Find a way to create a parliamentary system allowing us for more than two parties... actually would be healthy for our democracy, john stuart mill

Now for the truly pie in the sky....

1.- dismantle the Imperial Presidency, which may happen after we finally realize that one of Bush's legacies is, we ain't a superpower no more.

2.- Dismantle the national security state.


yes I know I am reaching here, Wit these last two.

;-)

[Spurt]

18. Your "pie in the sky"....

....are valid, but longer term as I see it.

Your "truly pie in the sky" could happen.

Think about a POTUS who is not yet known. A true partiot beholden to nobody. A patriot driven by an honest love for his(her) country. Untainted yet by political office.

A person with all the skills needed to lead the nation to clean up all its messes and put the pieces back together.
A person of great wisdom, intellect, diplomacy and humility.
A person of great courage who can clean up the governments both state and federal and make them all function better than ever.
A person who can apologise sincerely to the world for the past wrongs, and accept with grace the worlds advice and assistance.
A person who really does work hard for the nation and its people.

A person who can do all that in under 8 years.

I reckon there are a number of people out there who could each be such a POTUS.
It's time for a fresh start.

How's that for a fantasy?

Oh, and it should be a person who doesn't do blowjobs in the office - of flesh or powder. ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I truly hope so

but at least one requires a constitutional ammendment... and I realize that, and yes they are very much long term

[TreasonousBastard]

8. You're not alone by any means...

but Democrats come in all shapes, sizes, and colors, and have been squabbling for years. It sucks, but it's what we are.

How'd you like to have seen DU if it was around when Democrats were either Southern segregationists or inner-city machines?

DU when Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, or Carter were running. Or Reagan? Dukakis? Ike vs. Stevenson? Think about those years for a moment and imagine the furor on these boards. Or, maybe it's best we don't think about that.

Biggest problem I see is that it's difficult to figure out who has a legitimate gripe, who's a deliberate disrupter, who simply refuses to compromise on some issues, and who is just plain stupid or annoying.

It's not easy. Really, it's not.

Anyway, the ignore button is your friend, as long as you don't advertise your ignore list, and there's still plenty of good stuff in here to keep everyone occupied.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. ah yes, enjoy your stay

for as long as it will last...

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Please don't do that...

we understand the sentiment, but it makes things run so much smoother if you just hit the alert button.

As it is, this one might have hastened his exit with that reply to MY post.

(The NERVE!)

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Oh com'on is part of the fun

I wish at times the stupidity could be there for all to see, but hey....

:-)

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Yeah, I know, but...

we gots rules against these callouts because they do get out of hand.

FWIW, this particular bugger was all over the place and alerts were coming in so fast he already got his granite cookie by the time I got back in the mod forum.

[LynnTheDem]

17. "granite cookie"...lol!!!

Lovin' it! :D

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yummy

good job

[davepc]

12. I think it fundamentally makes the party stronger

Back when Northern big city bosses and Southern segregationists were the main blocs of the Democratic party the rank and file didn't actually talk very much...every few years at a convention where the real deal making was done behind closed doors anyways...today all parts of the Democratic tent are meeting and interacting in one space...all the time...our differences are not temporary impediments to selecting a candidate every few years...but a daily back and forth.

I think media like DU is actually going to weaken the two party system, as the cracks and fault lines between the coalitions become more apparent.

This isn't a Democratic problem either. You can see the fault lines in the Republican party quite clearly these past few days with the Miers nomination.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Ultimately. I think. or at least hope, you're right....

note that it was Wilson, FDR, Truman, and Johnson who came up with some real ideas for progress, and are the ones who actually changed the country, and occasionally the world, for the better, even with their flaws and problems. Not Reagan, or the rest of that other crew.

Democrats fighting the Democratic party all the way, sometimes with nastier fights than with Republicans.

We're still trying to figure out who we are as a party, and probably never will to everyone's satisfaction, but we are still the ones looking to the future and have the ideas most of the time.

The bosses still have their say, but that's just a political reality everywhere, even with Republicans. But, this is a new age, and us little guys are starting to have more power on our own and are cutting into the bosses turf. If DFA, Greens, and other newbies at the game eventually get it together and can become a real force, things will happen.

And who knows where it will lead?