flyer for local church sent home from school

[shugah]

i'm sure most parents of elementary age kids know about the "___day packets/folders" that come home with the kids on the specified day of the week - various forms, school info, educational offers, articles the teacher wants parents to read, etc.

last week, my sons packet contained a flyer for a local church. it kind of made me raise my eyebrows at the time, but i just tossed it in the trash along with all the other information that is useless to me. but it's been bothering me since, for a couple of reasons. 1) i don't know if the flyer was included in packets district wide, or if the teacher decided to include it herself. 2) there are a plethora of churches in our area - apparently 70% of the county population attend church regularly and this is one of the most religiously growing areas in the state - it disturbs me to think that all of them could promote through public schools. 3) it seems inappropriate, and 4 (perhaps most important) ) i'm not even sure if it is legal?

this is nagging at me. i'm going to call the school tomorrow to ask if it was the school/district that sent the flyer or if it was the teacher. i am going to find out what the policy is. i don't know what i'll do then - i guess it depends on what the answers to the questions are.

anyone else ever have this sort of thing happen?

[xultar]

1. I'd be soo hot I'd be wakin the effin effers up tonite. I was going to

complain cuz the High School I pay taxes for in my neighborhood hosts the big sky church on sunday's in the gym.

[Maat]

5. Well, due to the Equal Access Rule ..

per the U.S. Supreme Court, they must grant privileges to use the facilities equally to all community organizations/individuals, even if they are religious.

Big Sky probably demanded the equal access, and so it was granted.

[politicat]

6. If they pay to rent it at market rates, it's a community resource.

My atheist group pays to rent the library space at the high school in my area. There's a church on the premises at the same time in the cafeteria; we split the fee for the janitor that has to be there for us.

It's all about community resources and making sure that the schools can afford to do what they need to do, and if it means renting rooms to who ever will pay for them, then....

[marbuc]

18. Atheist group eh?

Do you get together to NOT worship God?

[shugah]

20. ha ha

i assume you were being witty?

[marbuc]

23. I tried

but I'm curious what goes on at an atheist meeting. I've known some atheists, but none participated in any sort of group.

[unrepuke]

24. You may be half right . . . ;-)

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. I'm curious. Are you being cute or what?

Your comment smacks of bigotry, to be honest and i have a feeling if you attended meetings with a group you felt strongly about and someone made a smartass remark about your activities, you might feel the same way.

BTW, Atheist groups meet and discuss any number of subjects.

Including religion and it's inherent flaws.

[marbuc]

26. Considering I dish the smartass remarks, I'm certain I would take them

in stride. Furthermore, I am agnostic (don't have the balls to completely deny God's existence) and some of my best friends are atheists, so no, I'm not bigoted towards that group.

[SeattleGirl]

7. Do they host it or rent the space?

I understand why you would want to complain about it, but given the tight straits so many schools seem to be in now, financially speaking, maybe this school needed the money. Even with taxes, there are an unbelieveable number of teachers who spend their own personal money to make sure their classrooms are adequately stocked and their students have what they need.

[shugah]

8. i think the churches that meet in schools

pay for the use of the facilities? that is what i always thought anyway. if they pay, that would make a difference, as long as the $ goes into supporting the (yeah, it's true, already supposed to be supported by tax dollars) school.

but that just made me think of something else - if the flyers are being printed with school supplies... i have teachers in my family and i know that there can be shortages of everything, including copy paper. plus there is a cost for the number of copies made. hm... more questions to ask tomorrow.

[Maat]

2. No, but I'm glad you are going to make that telephone call.

Do NOT let them 'con' you into thinking that this is even close to being constitutional.

[shugah]

12. i am really curious about what they will have to say

i don't know - i guess i don't get as up in arms as i should. i am very aware of the fact that i live in a very "religious" area. plus - these days what may be constitutional is not necessarily represented accurately by law or in court. (i'm expecting it to get even worse with the SCOTUS shake-up).

[politicat]

3. Just Boy Scouts.

Which can be just as bad.

I seem to recall that when I went to a Mormon dominated HS, there was sometimes information given out in school about the Stake events, but it's been a while.

[shugah]

15. i decided the boy scouts were not for my sons

many years ago - and actually for the wrong reasons - but as it turns out, even being wrong, i was right! pshew! ;-)

[msongs]

21. would that be "burning at the stake" events? nt

[SeattleGirl]

4. I never have, but I would sure want to find out the origin.

That seems really improper to me. Let us know what you find out.

[freesqueeze]

9. We Were Given Mini Bibles in the Fifth Grade

I prefer my children study science, math and reading. we have our own arrangement for religious study that would not match the local school board's beliefs.

If they claiming it's an equal access issue then all it will take is one call from the local pagans to prove them frauds.

http://www.freesqueeze.com/karlrove.htm

[Dangerously Amused]

16. No doubt.

If they try to bully you into thinking it's okay, come back in a few days with a flyer inviting all the kiddies to join in the next local Wiccan ritual, and tell the school you would appreciate having it distributed in the next school packet.

[shugah]

19. local pagans

we actually have some! i discovered the "new age" store owned by the pagan lesbians several months after moving here. the store is somewhat off the beaten track but i am continually amazed, gratified, and stymied about the absolute tolerance in our otherwise backward town.

the equal access angle has already crossed my mind. but i want to hear the answers to the questions i have before responding in any way.

[walldude]

10. I've seen alot of junk in the Monday folders

but never anything like that...

[Bozita]

11. In the mid '60s, preachers were not allowed to distribute Bibles ...

... in schools.

So the preacher stood on the sidewalk in front of the school during dismissal and dispensed his books.

Are we moving forward or ??

[Sgent]

31. Try the mid '80s'

It may not of been legal, but this Jewish boy got a nice mini-bible in school every year with the new testament, proverbs, and psalms.

This was in Mississippi, and I know I recieved one during the 85-86 school year (my 6th grade) in public schools, and at other times in other grades.

[Az]

13. Its not a problem as long as Scientologists and Wiccans have the same

access to students. As long as the school does not favor one religion over another they can distribute whatever they want. So when the Church of Satan (yes there really is one) shows up and asks to have its literature sent home you be sure to tell the school its ok.

[shugah]

25. well that is the question

isn't it?

i am not going off half-cocked - i do wish i had saved the flyer instead of discarding it. but, without knowing if it was the teacher, or the district, and what the school board policy is, there is no conclusion i can draw.

yet.

[Az]

28. I understand

My comment was tongue in cheek. Of course the religious right would never stand for another belief sending home fliers from school. Its the reason why we have to keep religion out of the public square. Simply put the religious right does not play well with others.

[shugah]

29. hey Az!

you know i have no disagreement with you!

it would be better if i had been in a fiery mood when i looked at the flyer. instead, i was just tired mom trying to get thru a bunch of paper and decide what to toss and what needed my real attention (meaning, what does the teacher want to make my sons educational experience the best possible). so, the light bulb went on - just a little late.

it's funny, tho. my little one can't read yet, so the flyer would seem to be directed to me. since i live in such a church-y area it is interesting. christians trying to convert christians? it seems the religious right may not even play nice with the religious right!

[Az]

32. Of course they are

Its a grey scale. We heathens, atheists, and other nonbelievers are the far end of the scale. But each church believes that their take on the doctrine is the correct one. So all other denoms and sects are fair game. Religion is a competitive system. Each faction battles for resources. They evolve different tactics. They prey upon each other. If a particular church cannot keep its numbers up it fades away. They don't want to fade away. So they do what they have to do to survive.

[Maat]

27. This J.D. (law degree) beliefs that while a church ..

can demand equal access to school facilities, and pay whatever required fee to use them ..

this smacks of school (government) sponsorship of religion .. if the flyer was put into the materials either with the school's knowledge or by the school. I would think that the school would still be in trouble even if an employee did it without permission.

It will be interesting to see how the school reacts to the telephone call.

They cannot claim this is an equal access issue; I just don't believe that it is. This is a 'government sponsorship' issue.

No?

[Az]

33. Technically

If they do not sponsor or select the groups providing the fliers they can claim equal access. The trouble is of course its not equal access. The first nonchristian religious group that tries to use the distribution technique will set off every alarm on the county.

[Maat]

36. Well, you are certainly correct about that.

Permitting orgs. to use the school distribution system smacks of school sponsorship to me (but I agree there is another view); in any case, this behavior is definitely over the top.

[kestrel91316]

34. Bad you. You have given me a strong urge to join the Church of Satan

for the sole purpose of trying to get a school to distribute a flyer for it, and test their equal access BS.

I have a naughty streak.

[Az]

35. They might actually be up your alley then

Church of Satan has little to do with Satan and more to do with hedonism and a reactionary nature to Christian ideals. That and a pentient for the theatrical.

[Sydnie]

14. I don't know what your school's policy might be but

I was a school committee chair and created a policy on just this type of thing. No flyers could go out to the general population that were not generated by the school or the district without being approved by the committee first. That included flyers from the PTO on local fundraising activites to once allowing notices to go out about an important town meeting - just dates and issues, without the editorial info - so if this teacher did do this, and there is no policy concerning it by your district, that is the first place to start. Insist that they create a policy that clearly states who is responsible to approve what gets sent home through the kids.

If the church wants to advertise, they can mail it like everybody else.

Make sure to request to be put on the school committee's agenda, where you will be able to request that such a policy be instituted so that they could avoid a lawsuit in the future. That might just get their attention.

[AlphaCat]

17. Good for you!

I'd be furious if something like that happened to me! I believe religion is a private thing and a child's parents are the ones that should be guiding their kid's intoduction to religion. I'm no fanatic about it--I don't care if the kids sing Christmas caroles or whatever, but I think you're smart by just not letting this pass!

[niyad]

30. when the archdiocese opened a new parish here, the congregation met in one

of the local school gyms until the church was built, which took nearly a year. however, there were no flyers in the school about it, ever.