there is no way that I believe the people of Calif. voted for Arnold

[donsu]

Californians are not that stupid or uninformed.

The only way I would believe it is if they used paper/pen ballots - no voting machine.

[fizzana]

1. Unfortunately we did use paper/pen ballots for over 95% of

the votes cast.

Davis was a severely damaged candidate who ran a weak campaign against someone who became the media darling.

Far too many Democrats voted for Arnold.

And yes, this election proved that a majority of Californians are stupid and uninformed.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. nor I

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. The worst part of the numbers is that Dems got less than 3 million

votes if you add up all the candidates and the Repubs got close to 5 million votes if you add all of theirs. Not GOOD for a state that swung totally Democratic last election.

Republicans will stand up for a lying son of a bitch when attacked. Democrats feel a need to commit sepuku.

[diplomats]

7. Arnold's persona was a much bigger factor than his being a Repuke

McClintock was the only traditional Republican in the race.

[diplomats]

4. But this election was a referendum on a horribly unpopular governor

NOT a referendum on Arnold. My God, Davis' approval ratings were in the 20s! Those are Nixonian levels. Now that Arnold's elected, people will start focusing on HIM, and he'll have the burden of governing. But I'm not surprised Arnold won. I'm sure there's no governor in America as unpopular as Gray Davis, and that killed us.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. After seeing what Cali is doing I will not be....

complaining about Ice Cold New England Winters this year!!!!!

[bowens43]

6. They did vote for him......

all the polls said he was going to win and he did. You can bet that if Hatch gets his amendment passed we will be seeing a President Arnold in a few years. Americans are for the most part both uninformed and apathetic. They will vote for the movie star every time.

[diplomats]

8. I doubt if that amendment will go anywhere

but what do I know?

[bowens43]

30. I think you're right.

The amendment doesn't have a chance.

[nolabels]

39. Wasn't that a Bond movie, "Never say Never"

Gee just what need more skeptics saying things will never happen, that’s just silly, just like he will never be elected! Let’s play on people's fears and weakness.

If you do not stand on good principles your weakness or any of the weakness of your points will be exposed.

Please tell me to be how or why I need to be fearful, I like it when people bring out or highlight my ignorance or lack of knowledge about things or subjects

Truly when you give into and start using the tactics of your opponent you lose twice, first by abandoning your own self beliefs and secondly by acknowledging that theirs are more potent and effective. Being able to be locked into any dualism is always the first mistake.

Both sides of left / right have capitulated and used a lot of capital in the last few weeks (the middle used it against them both).

Is everybody going to try to use denial or break down and ridicule people for opposing them or somebody they claim to represent? Or will they try to understand and help others while not dwelling on the circumstances that could hamper things that need to happen from happening.

This is a time to get over it and recognize major failures and loses on many sides. The only thing that won yesterday is a few big egos (so far)

[dfitzsim]

9. Believe it.

It was confirmed by the exit polls. I was born and raised in Southern California. Celebrity is king, and let's face it, we Dems didn't offer up a strong alternative. Gray Davis is not a well like gov. (if we can't see or admit that, we're doomed). Whether it is true or not Bustamante is seen as no different that Davis, and in many eyes, worse. The legislature is seen as the root cause of their budget woes, so anyone from there had no chance. In a short election cycle, name recognition means everything, policy nothing.

Arnold ran on the same platform as Howard Dean is - I'm an outsider. I'm not business as usual (the difference is Dean has a record, not just rhetoric). He tapped into the deep disaffection of voters. I happen to think he is an insider surrounded by Bush/Pete Wilson puppet masters, but that's not what he sold the people of California. I don't think it's a question of the voters of California being "that stupid", they were simply marketed a product that seemed better than all the no-name products and the clunker that they currently own. The press fell down on the job (surprise) and never asked Arnold any serious questions about his qualifications.

I heard a BBC story that stated there were 90 stories a month of good, free press about Arnold in the national media. Contrast that with 5 stories in the national media when Reagan ran for governor of California in the sixties. Add $20 million dollars to the campaign trail, and it's no wonder he won.

[candy331]

36. Yes I believe

that Arnold got the votes. Celebrity won it for him and explain, wonder, or whatever people voted for a celebrity. Money and celebrity in this country is king. Would any company have even considered him as CEO? Well that is exactly what he is for all practical purposes and the stockholder voters were too dimwit to educate themselves on his record so they should swallow down whatever happens because they voted fo him.

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Remember, Davis got 45% of the vote

(No on the recall). Not bad, considering their fiscal crisis.

Of course, Fox News is only saying that Cruz got 32%, McClintock 13%, and Camejo 2%.

[DerBeppo]

14. those numbers

those numbers are true though, cruz, mcclintock and camejo did get those numbers.

as for the landslide discussion, only 8 counties voted no on recall. 8 out of 58.

it really is time to stop making excuses and start focusing elsewhere now.

[republicansareevil]

21. Why would you count individual counties?

Why would you count individual counties rather than the actual vote? You add a layer of abstraction that distorts the truth just to make your point stronger. It reeks of those GOP maps that show Bush/Gore voting by land mass instead of population. Come on. Try to be a little less transparent.

[Qutzupalotl]

23. My point was, they ignored the pro-Davis numbers.

[UCLA02]

26. Your premise is flawed

Sure, 8 counties out of 58, but this is not the Electoral College. It's, of course, strictly popular. 8 of the largest counties voted NO, but that means absolutely nothing. 45% of voters statewide voted NO. Breaking it down by red and green counties on the Secretary of State's webpage only serves to classify where the votes came from, but serves no purpose in determining how many people voted.

Look at Modoc County-WOW, 74% said YES on recall, tuning the county green...then you look and see that just over 3000 votes were cast. So by your logic, should Davis have picked up a few thousand more votes that were distributed throughout the less populated counties, turning them red, the election would have been different, right?

Multi-colored maps only work on a presidential election. Perhaps look at the statewide overall numbers and reevaluate your "only 8 of 58" argument.

[joefree1]

19. It will interesting how Aunald will fare in a recall election

Get over it? I don't think so.

11x17 size free download on my web page
California Democrats for the Recall of Aunald meet here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=3018

Totally Recall Arnold Schwarzenegger Petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/schwarze/petition.html

[tjdee]

11. Yeah, they *really* wanted "tough love".

When Bustamante trotted out that crap "tough love" thing, I knew he'd lose. I just hoped he wouldn't.

People vote on the PERSON more than the issues.

[marley]

12. I am

willing to bet that Californians are just as stupid and uniformed as everyone else.

[fizzana]

13. Look on the plus side

Being an outsider is good when things aren't going that well. This sentiment will work for either Clark or Dean in '04.

[donsu]

15. I'm still not convinced

how can you all discount the riggable voting machines?

[dfitzsim]

16. Exit polls.

The are nearly always right, and in this case the margin was huge.

[donsu]

17. who did the exit polls?

nt

[Bluzmann57]

18. Sometimes it seems like

there is too much time spent worrying about "conspiracies" and not enough time spent busting butt for the candidate of one's choice. We Democrats MUST take the White House and/or the legislative branch of the U.S. government next year. Perhaps we should work towards that instead of spending excessive time on conspiracy theories.

[donsu]

22. you think riggable voting machines is a conspiracy?

where have you been?

[fizzana]

20. Do you live in California?

I'll bet you don't. If you did you would have known that Davis was a hugely unpopular governor. The writing was on the wall weeks ago.

Deal with it.

[donsu]

24. Davis wasn't that unpopular - they just re-elected him

nt

[UCLA02]

29. True, the media helped tremendously.

Tell me the media didn't want Arnold to win. Every other sentence out of their mouths described how unpopular Davis was or replaced his title of "Governor" with "California's Unpopular Goveror..." and how cool it was to be travelling with Arnold on his bus. YEUK!

Shit, I got home at 8:30 last night, fipped on BSNBC, and saw the big sign at the bottom "ARNOLD WINS!" (empahsis theirs). People were still in line to vote for Chrissakes!

I wanted to drive down the 10 to Santa Monica and kick Tweety's ass all over the pier. (and I would have thrown Peggy Noonan and Howard Fineman in for good measure...just to make the drive really worth it!)

[fizzana]

37. Davis was only re-elected because he managed to knock

Dick Riordon out of the GOP primaries. He then had to face Bill Simon who is a far right wing idiot who also had a number of questionable financial dealings as a negative. Riordon would have cleaned Davis' clock which is why Davis spent millions on knocking him out of the primaries.

What also helped was the California GOP's stupidity in pushing Simon because Riordan wasn't ideologically pure enough.

[fizzana]

38. Davis was only re-elected because he managed to knock

Dick Riordon out of the GOP primaries. He then had to face Bill Simon who is a far right wing idiot who also had a number of questionable financial dealings as a negative. Riordon would have cleaned Davis' clock which is why Davis spent millions on knocking him out of the primaries.

What also helped was the California GOP's stupidity in pushing Simon because Riordan wasn't ideologically pure enough.

[OldSoldier]

25. The DNC/DLC screwed us

There must be some likeable Democrats in California. That's not who we ran.

McAuliffe made it a my-way-or-the-highway choice with his Davis stance; every American knows that Californians love highways.

[Liberal Classic]

27. What about the possibility a majority wanted Davis out?

http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/recall/mapN4.htm

California has its own version of the blue-state, red-state
breakdown, only here it's counties, and the Secretary of State's
map colors them green and red. Just 15 of the state's 58 counties
opposed the recall yesterday, and eight of them were on the coast.
Six of the remaining seven were either continguous to a coastal
county and immediately inland, or touching San Francisco Bay.
Yolo County, which was 49.8 percent "yes" as of 6:40 this morning,
was the only "inland" county for Gray. And other than Los Angeles
County, which was 51 percent "no" on the recall, the southernmost
county for Gray was Monterey. I will come back with the precise
numbers on this, but it appears that if you took away Los Angeles
County and those counties which touch SF Bay, the recall would
have passed 60-40, and perhaps by an even greater margin.



California Secretary of State website

http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/recall/mapN4.htm

[UCLA02]

32. Why would you do that?

"but it appears that if you took away Los Angeles
County and those counties which touch SF Bay, the recall would
have passed 60-40, and perhaps by an even greater margin."

California DOES NOT have version of the blue-state red-state. That works for the Electoral College only. It's still a popular election, no matter HOW you bin the numbers. County, city, latitude, who really cares? With your logic, "if we threw out the redneck, shit kicking, unpopulated counties, the reacll would have failed 60-40"

[bring_em_home_bush]

28. ~

Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half.
Gore Vidal

[slackmaster]

31. You have entered Stage 1: Denial

Best wishes for your prompt advancement to Anger and beyond. May your healing be quick and complete.

[dfitzsim]

33. A "no" vote on the recall is not the same as a "yes" vote for Davis

Some here seem to think that by getting 45% of the vote, that people were somehow voting for Davis. With a 20% approval rating, that idea is laughable. Many voters who voted "No" on the recall were voting against the idea that you can replace a sitting governor simply because he is unpopular. After that, they voted for Arnold, Bustamante, or one of the other 130+ candidates, or left part two of the ballot blank.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boudicea]

35. You are so eloquent -- it's mind boggling

[HitmanLV]

40. it's true just the same

Think what you want, but Arnold won by much more than anyone expected.