Howard Dean's blog about his meeting with Cindy Sheehan. Thoughts.

[madfloridian]

Something very serious is going on about our party now. We worked together and got into the position of chairman someone whom most of us feel has the interests of the people of the party at heart. He is right now our best chance to get our party back from the corporations that now control it. He is not perfect, none of us agree on everything he says. There is no way in hell that will happen among Democrats nor should it.

I read a statement today by someone who should knw better that Howard Dean came out with the statement for ulterior motives after his meeting with Cindy Sheehan. I found that offensive, and I think he is sincere in his statement. If you meet with leaders, talk with them in a way most of us don't get to do....then you have an obligation. You have an obligation to respect them, even if you disagree. You do not mock them after they give you the courtesy.

Things are going to come down to being destructive for the party, which truly is a shame. I take firm stands, and I say my mind. But making fun of people is wrong. You don't meet and then mock, you just don't.

I realize Dean's post was put up here before, but I saw it's sincerity questioned again today. I believe the Democratic Party right now is our best vehicle for taking back our country. I think acting destructively toward it is different than being constructively critical.

This is a gracious diary he posted. He has a role now which encompasses all divisions in the party. He does not have the luxury of doing things just his way. He hears from us when we disagree, but it is done knowing that he has to listen to others as well.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/09/meeting_with_ci.php

Meeting with Cindy Sheehan
Posted by Howard Dean on September 27, 2005 at 06:06 PM

I met with Cindy Sheehan and three activist supporters here in my office at the DNC (two of whom were involved in the Presidential race) on Saturday after the rally. Some of you have met her, but for those who have not, I thought I would share my impressions.

She is a delightful person. She had not a drop of holier than thou zealotry. She is unpretentious and very clear. All this I expected, given the terrible sacrifice she has made, and her willingness to speak out.

What I was surprised at was her ability to be so comfortable in her own skin. After she became a phenomenon in Crawford, the Republican spin team realized she was a real threat. Cindy Sheehan, made a tremendous personal sacrifice. A sacrifice being made by too many American families who have had loved ones killed or maimed in this war.

Cindy has credibility the Administration does not have. Even the President tried to diminish her by saying that she did not believe in fighting terrorism. His minions, of course, did much worse, trying to make out that she was a media savvy manipulator -- and even spreading false rumors that she was anti-Semitic.

No one is untouched in the face of personal attack, but Cindy exudes an inner calm and a self-confidence which made it clear to me that she will not back down. I respect and support what she is doing in standing up and speaking out.

Whether you think the Iraq war is a good idea or not, all of us should support Cindy Sheehan. Perhaps the grossest disservice the Republican leadership has inflicted on our country is not the war, the huge deficits, or even the divisive appeals to the worst fears of voters. Rather it is the notion that it is unpatriotic to disagree with the most partisan President in our life time, and that dissent harms our country. Nothing could be farther from the truth -- we are a strong country because we have the right to dissent.

In fact it is the attempts of the Administration to fight dissent with personal attacks as they did during the Nixon era are that diminish our country in the long term.

Cindy Sheehan is honest in the face of a dishonest and corrupt Washington culture. She is plain spoken in an era of cynicism and propaganda, she in committed and idealistic in a time where our government has abandoned what is right for America in favor of what is right for the Republican party. We need more Cindy Sheehans.

If getting out of Iraq is going to be accomplished, it will be accomplished by targeting the ones who supported it to begin with. Cindy has a huge responsibility to report every word said correctly. She owes that to Chuck Schumer, she owes that to Hillary Clinton, and to Howard Dean. That is part of meeting with leaders, being fair.

[seabeyond]

1. i think what dean said was lovely. now i am afraid to listen to what

cindy said because of your post. i saw a thread that said something about what sheehan said about dean. man bummer. dont want to listen, now i feel i have too. double bummer.

[madfloridian]

2. I have had my say and tried to be fair on this issue.

I hate this war, but going after and making fun of one of its strongest foes last year is not very wise.

[Beam Me Up]

8. I do hope you will reconsider and watch the video.

It can be found linked from this DU thread discussing this matter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4946098

Personally, I disagree with madfloridian's characterization of Cindy's remarks as "mocking."

Obviously, Cindy wasn't satisfied with Dean's words but it should be obvious to all that Cindy will not be satisfied with anyone who does not say flat out that we need to withdraw from Iraq immediately.

[seabeyond]

9. thanks beam, cause more than anything, i l ike to be fair. that

at least means listening to. lol lol. i looked for this last night and didnt see the thread. so huge or hugh appreciation posting this for me.

[Beam Me Up]

10. You're welcome!

:hi:

[madfloridian]

11. Disagreement is healthy.

I do disagree with her tone and with the laughter in the room. I would like very much for some of the others who sat in on the interview to verify some of the quotes.

Disagreement is healthy when it is done with an understanding of who can really do something and who can not.

I fully expect people to disagree with me, but I think the party is our best bet. Not third party, which is the goal of some. Not right now when our country is at stake.

I firmly believe in holding feet to the fire, but I also believe in caution and courtesy. I believe that laughing at our leaders might hurt not help.

[seabeyond]

15. i can see what you are saying. n/t

[seabeyond]

14. very interesting. very good. i like the way she talks thru out most

of it. she shares only so much to promote her agenda. she certainly has an agenda, that is for sure. she states her agenda, and i respect and appreciate her fight for that agenda, yet......

she plays too. she promoted the iwr vote was a vote for war, and leaves so much of the story out. that allows her followers to bring a none truth on this board we battle often. she also speaks of kerry waiting two months, not ok she says. ok, htat is fine she says it, but leaves kerry open without honesty. the reason two months is election. but i appreciate what she says and kerry is a big boy, dean is a big boy and she had valid statements. like .. it isnt so hard (not in her book with agenda, but there is more to the story she refuses to listen to).... kerry's last man to die,......and dnc dean war hard to present. the two essences of both these people i think they should address because it is contradictive to them, ergo looks like a hypocrisy, though i understadn their challenge. i am glad she said it out loud because this may allow dean to reflect how he needs to walk. and kerry too. and all the others. i dont have to beat these people up, i would rather they get it. and the shumer one, cindy leaves me asking, what did shumer really say.

[madfloridian]

16. You put that well.

She does share only what promotes her goals. I have concerns about some things Schumer, Hillary, and even Dean say and do, but I want more on what went on in the meetings. Sone of it is not ringing the right bells in my poor head.

I do admire her very much. I have two sons. I hate the war and I hate the lies. I just want all sides to be heard fairly.

[seabeyond]

17. yes, because truly if not, then it will not be resolved. and that

is the goal. and if we can do this, we have all the power

[hedda_foil]

3. I was at a small event with Dean last week.

This was not a group of DU types (though a couple of us were there). In fact, it was for major DNC funders. (Don't ask me how I got there, as I'm flat broke.) Dean didn't need to mention Cindy. And he certainly didn't need to say anything like what's in his blog. But he did say just that because he meant it.

[madfloridian]

4. Hedda, I wonder if that was the meeting in this diary?

I saw it at Kos a day or so ago. It was well-written and I was impressed by it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/28/224932/882

[hedda_foil]

21. I don't think so, MF.

The meeting I went to was on Monday, and featured Al Gore as the main speaker, along with Dean, who introduced Gore and spoke for about 5 minutes. The meeting in the diary took place on Wednesday, I believe.

[madfloridian]

24. I am jealous you got to see Gore and Dean both.

Very envious. :hi:

[hedda_foil]

41. It was really amazing, MF.

I kept wanting to pinch myself to make sure I was really there!

[shance]

12. Of course Dean needed to mention Cindy Sheehan. That's what makes him

the person that he is and a person that we trust.

I think Cindy and Governor Dean both are bringing so much to the Democratic process which is vital.

I have substantial issues as many of us do, of trust in what have become the rather corporatized organizations of the Democratic party, including the DNC. I am certainly grateful that Governor Dean over anyone is in the 'belly of the beast', however I am also concerned how D.C. can be quite seductive and powerful in quashing change and the best of anyones' intentions in order to maintain a corrupt system.

On another note, which does coincide, the issues of economic disparity and "classism" if you will, within our own party is concerning to me. I think it happens in any group however we need to be building our strength and numbers, and I think we can and must make some changes in shifting the focus on how we build the party and we how we fund raise. Our strength is our numbers. We must encourage individuals to become involved in politics, because many feel they are not valued solely unless they can give money.

Our party needs to become more creative instead of sending out mass letters asking for cash. If we are going to build the party and the Democratic system overall,which is even more important, we have to invite people and engage others in talking about issues and coming together as a community in order to regain the responsibility for their government again. What are ways in which we can do that? Thats the question we need to ask more and I think through the original DFA we were headed in that direction.

With that said*, we also need honesty and authenticity and I believe Cindy Sheehan and Governor Dean offer both.

[madfloridian]

13. And that is why the monthly payments to DNC are vital.

People can want change badly, but sometimes they have to put their money where their mouth is. That is the purpose of the Democracy Bonds.

The very people who are against the war and are not happy with the corporate nature of the party right now.....are the very ones who post here so often that they are withholding support.

We are in a touchy situation where donating means a heck of a lot, and where seeing through a lot of hype is crucial.

[seabeyond]

18. you are right on. 13 a month from me. not a big deal, but a part n/t

[Terran1212]

5. It's good that Dean can talk but not back it up

Is he trying to shore up the Left's support (now that it is growing an alienating the DLC and whatnot) without actually acting for us
?

[madfloridian]

6. Sorry you don't think he is working for us.

And working for the rest of the party as well. I don't know what else to say.

[Cha]

7. What are you saying? What's

Dean not backing up?

[seabeyond]

19. you are wrong, as is your right, lol lol. i am funny

maybe just to me. who is to know.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Why do you think he is not?

What evidence do you have? What have you read that gave you that impression?

Do you speak from knowledge, or assumption?

[yurbud]

20. I think Dean is one of the best Dems but we need honesty not sympathy

and being patronized.

I don't want Congressmen, Senators & party leaders to give Cindy a hug--I want them to tell her the truth.

My fear is most Dems aren't because for whatever reason, they have bought into the economic and geopolitical justification for the war, and it's hard to assume otherwise if they don't talk about those motives.

[madfloridian]

23. We need total honesty on both sides.

We have had spin from both sides long enough. Spin is not honesty.

[yurbud]

25. If Democrats get there first, it will make GOP lies look that much worse

I sent a fax to every GOP senator telling them to stop the lies and tell us why they supported the war.

But I think they are less likely to do so than the Democrats, and I want the Dems to win to fix this and other problems.

[madfloridian]

28. We need total honesty among progressives.

When you get access to party leaders who have to watch every word they say because of the media slant...you have a job to do. Cindy has the freedom to say anything she wants to say. Her job is to present what they said respectfully and cautiously, being critical, but not putting them down. They can not defend themselves really.

There is no one else to report what went on there. It is an awesome responsibility, and it should not involve laughing at them when they are trying to present their case.

[yurbud]

29. How can the media hurt you when you tell the truth?

They did their worst to Cynthia McKinney, and now she's back.

You don't have to be hysterical about it, just make the case.

Or is it that they are afraid of being shut out of the media all together?


It was striking when that happened to Kucinich during the primaries. During one of the debates, Ted Koppel asked if the other candidates thought Howard Dean could win if he was the nominee, and Kucinich said there were a lot more important issues to talk about that affect the lives of American people, and stop the horse race, beauty pageant stuff.

ABC stopped their coverage of him the next day.

[madfloridian]

30. So you blame Dean for media's not covering Kucinich?

As to how can the media hurt you if you tell the truth? I can not really believe you asked that question.

I can see that certain groups have an agenda. It is coming out clearly now. I will not work with groups whose agenda is to hurt the party, but then they probably don't want me anyway.

I will stand up for things my own way, do what i can. It is sad that so many will take a chance on hurting someone who is trying to make the party about them again.

I am going to back off on this topic now. I have been asked not to let people get to me, so I won't. I need to be careful not to argue.

My post was well-thought out, it was not an angry post. It was true.

I am sorry you believe this paragraph you wrote, because I don't think it is true.

" During one of the debates, Ted Koppel asked if the other candidates thought Howard Dean could win if he was the nominee, and Kucinich said there were a lot more important issues to talk about that affect the lives of American people, and stop the horse race, beauty pageant stuff.

ABC stopped their coverage of him the next day."

No wonder there is so much anger towards him. That is a shame.

[yurbud]

31. you missed my point entirely--Howard Dean had nothing to do with

the stupid question. I was saying Kucinich got in trouble for questioning the media, nothing else, which actually supports an argument that I otherwise disagree with, namely, that Democrats have to be super-circumspect to avoid being slaughtered by the media.

It's worth noting Howard Dean eventually recovered from his media beating, and I doubt that could be done to him again.


I think Howard is great, and having him as the head of the DNC gives me hope for real change.

[madfloridian]

32. I agree.

And we need that hope.

[seabeyond]

22. another part cindy ignores, listening to her speak about these

meetings. the democrats at least had the courage to face this woman that speaks out so loud and is heard by so many. they had the courage to have a meeting, allowing themselves to be set up for criticism. there is a certain amount of non appreciation for this that may lead for dems to close down again. i dont think that is smart either. first

firstly.... cindy should thank them for having the balls to face her, eye to eye.

[yurbud]

33. she didn't just or even primarily mock them, but...

it's not enough for them to glad hand her and hope she goes away.

Frankly, what they are doing would have been considered a matter of course before Bush set the bar so low for cowardice about facing tough questions.

[madfloridian]

34. I partially agree.

However, the remarks she made about a man who really has very little that he can do about foreign policy, who never wanted the war, spoke out against it...bother me.

If they are directed toward the ones who can change the policy that is ok, if she quotes correctly.

The fuss that was made by members of a group about Dean's diary about her, one of them writing an article at Democrats.com called Is Dean Drunk...people of the group saying he was trying to use the diary politically...it has disturbed.

I know what is going on, I know the plan was to endorse Dean as chair because they felt he would be the best to manipulate. Can you just imagine their attacks if Rosenberg had become chair? Or Frost? They would not even have bothered.

Rosenberg loves the war, so does Frost. They are going after one who spoke out against it. I don't see this as a good policy. I really don't.

[yurbud]

35. She wouldn't even have bothered to talk to past chairs, she's went to Dean

because we expect him to listen and be honest, which makes getting less than honesty more disappointing.

[madfloridian]

36. See, you are saying he is being less than honest.

I would like to hear from the others who were in attendance, two who were supposedly with the campaign. I can not believe Howard Dean said he couldn't do anything about Iraq because "it's too hard"...there must have been more to it. And what ever it was it was not said in a whiny voice like that.

That is the problem right there. Maybe he was just as honest as he could be under the circumstances. I guess you do realize that many in DC don't want him there. They do not like his intention to build the party with smaller donors. They don't want it that way at all.

As he said recently, if they don't like what he does they will ask him to leave. He simply can not do foreign policy. Attacking him and making fun of him from the left is even worse than from the right.

I know what I would do. I would throw up my arms and walk away. He won't, but he should. Too many don't want change, and the ones who do want the moon. Sorry, but the moon is not in his job description.

[yurbud]

37. he could have said what you just said--the assholes will show me the

door if I speak out on this.

Dean really has one function there, to show that grassroots fundraising can replace the corrupt, corporate driven kind.

I support him in that 100%.

It's probably frustrating to hear that "It's hard" crap because she hears it from people who COULD say and do more if they chose to.

[madfloridian]

39. Yeah, well that would have gone over with a bang.

Let's face it. Unless he said he would advocate pulling out of Iraq right now, nothing else he said mattered at all.

Do you guys understand what he is saying in the diary he posted. No, I did not think so.

You know, we all are frustrated. But beating up on him when he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't is really harmful.

Go after the ones who support it, hold their feet to the fire. Let him do what he can do to change things instead of doing this all the time. He is the target a group has chosen. They should have chosen the pro-war congress people to center on.

Quote them correctly, keep after them. I am for that. I am not for trying to hurt the party when it is so vulnerable. It is making a lot of people mad and it is hurting us badly.

I call congressmen all the time about the war and about getting out. I don't call the DNC about that. It is not their job.

[yurbud]

42. yep.

[seabeyond]

40. saying the war issue is hard is not dishonest. it is just not the

answer you and cindy want. dont say it is dishonest. that is dishonest. you dont think how to address the war issue is hard for dean, where he sits, not only with the american people, the image of dem doves and democratic party that is all over the map. nope, i think he was being brutally honest.

[madfloridian]

26. Did Schumer meet with her or send an aide?

I found this, and I am curious.

UPDATE: According to my sources, the meeting with Schumer did not go well,
to begin with, because he refused to meet with her, and instead sent an
aide. She asked the aide if Senator Schumer would help in the effort to
bring this war to an end, and the aide replied that: "Senator Schumer thinks
this war is good for America." According to the source, Sheehan walked out,
remarking "Wel, I guess this means Schumer thinks my son's death was good
for America." Or words to that effect.
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/comments.php?id=2380_0_1_0_C

This is from September 20.

We do know that Howard Dean met with her, and that two others were there who were involved in the campaign. That is good that he did. I wish the others would speak and clarify more what he said.

[WildEyedLiberal]

38. "When you meet with leaders, you have an obligation"

An obligation to what? Kiss their ass? Shower glowing, gushing words of high praise upon them? Do you have an obligation to agree with them?

I call bullshit. Cindy Sheehan doesn't owe Dean - or Hillary, or Schumer, or McCain, or Bush - a goddamned thing. She met with them, she found their words insufficient. That is HER prerogative. Period.

Somehow, I think it's all fine and dandy with some people if she calls out Democrats they don't like - I seem to remember lots of cheering when she dissed Hillary Clinton - but suddenly a sacred cow of DU is being questioned, so let's turn on Cindy and tell her she has an "obligation" to not dare question the sincerity of Dear Leader. Yes, this post is filled with sarcasm. But I don't care - this OP stinks to high heaven with the reek of hypocrisy.

[LittleClarkie]

43. Eh, don't worry dearest, they're just jealous

After all, their guy didn't make the Hall of Fame.

Neener, neener...:P ;)

[madfloridian]

44. Well, I don't think I deserved your wrath, but that is up to you.

You have a right to think what you think. I tried to word it fairly.