Do You Favor The Release Of The Abu Ghraib Torture Photos?

[DistressedAmerican]

I have seen a few posts here saying that we should not release them. I wonder about those posts. But just to check the temp around here:

Do you favor the release of the photos?

[Sandpiper]

1. The Truth should be known

No matter how ugly it might be.

[Imagevision]

26. "The Truth should be known"-?? so you can do what with this knowledge?

huh bippy...!

[bloom]

42. It's difficult to make the argument to stop the torture

when some people don't even believe the US military is doing it or having it done for them.

Some people deny there is evidence. (Of course those people are nuts).

Let everyone be ashamed of what our military/government is doing in our name.

[The Stranger]

54. The reason is self-evident.

Truth is reason enough. There need be no other.

[mondo joe]

78. One can be informed. That is more than sufficient purpose.

The electorate needs no greater reason than that.

[uppityperson]

2. They are going to cause problems, should be released.

Problem is that it happened, not that we know about it and evidence is shown.

[Imagevision]

29. and more of your brothers & sisters will be killed, so that we here while

not using our Ipods can be entertained...?!!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

33. So there is no torture or murder too extreme that justifies their release?

We don't care how many attrocities our troops commit in our names and don't care to see them? The next step after that is gas chambers and medical experimentation. How many U.S. troops would that get killed if photos of THAT came to light? How would be ever be sure such attrocities are not being committed if we never want to hear or see about it? I guess it comes down to trust. I personally do not trust the Pentagon Lie Factory.

If US troops are getting killed, for any reason, it is the fault of the people who sent them into a war of occupation, not the fault of the American people for wanting to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[bloom]

44. From what I understand

The people of the Middle East and the rest of the world are well aware of what has been going on. It's Americans that need to wake up and demand an end to it.

If the majority of Americans keep being in denial - keep ignoring it - that would seem like THAT would seem worse to those who have had torture done to them and those that they love.

[MisterP]

64. the photo release doesn't cause the insurgency, the ACTIONS THEMSELVES

did!
word gets out of Abu Ghraib and the other cesspools of American superiority, even if the victims are not released from the prison.
It's not about "entertainment," it's about the truth

[manic expression]

71. I really hope you're joking

Because if you aren't, know that your opinions or positively sadistic and fascist.

The truth is the most important thing. The world MUST see what we have done. Any attempt to censor our actions is, in essence, a great injustice to not only those who have been wronged, not only to the rest of the world, not only to ourselves, but to any notion of respect of truth as well.

If US soldiers are attacked more, it is because people are enraged by our actions. It is OUR fault, so do not blame the victim of a crime for fighting back. America has done wrong, and to hide it does nothing to change reality; we MUST expose our actions for what they truly are: WRONG. We have an obligation to that, to the truth. Reactions to that are justified and right.

Injustice must be exposed. Truth must be shown.

[Booster]

95. The world HAS seen what we've done. Now we need to see it too.

[uppityperson]

74. More people will non-support the administration if they see

I am not entertained in the least by torture photos. If you are, I pity you. I want them released so good-old-americans can see what the current administration allows and perhaps more will vote against them next time and/or press for changes now. "A few bad apples", Lyndie England did it, it was just fun and games that went too far, all those excusing phrases need to be thrown out and pictures can really influence people.

The acts were horrendous. The pictures will be grotesque. They need to be released.

[mondo joe]

79. Or our brothers and sisters can demand accountability.

Please don't treat citizens like children who can't deal with information.

Thank you.

[Pithlet]

105. It isn't about entertainment

It's about not keeping us ignorant. The time to think about that behavior endangering our troops was BEFORE those atrocities were committed in the first place, to prevent it from happening in the first place. The powers that be cannot allow these things to happen and then howl that the evidence will endanger the troops to cover it up. If we remain ignorant of these goings on, then we do nothing to stop it. Keeping those photos from the American public does nothing to ensure the safety of our troops.

I have family over there right now. I certainly don't want them in any more danger. I want them HOME.

[redwitch]

3. Yes.

If we bury the truth we may also finally bury our country.

[Beacho]

4. Yes

So that we, the American public, will know what the Iraqi people already know

[johnnypneumatic]

5. it is absolutely necessary to prove to repubs

that they are responsible for raping children

[deutsey]

6. Ye shall know the Truth and it shall make ye sick.

:evilfrown:

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Only then can we end the madness

People need to know the truth about how BushCo has destroyed our military.

[hwmnbn]

8. I want to know exactly.....

how my tax dollars are being spent.

[fooj]

9. Yep. Time the RW rat bastards see what is being done in THEIR NAME!

Peace.

[txaslftist]

10. I actually went with "no".

Not until our boys are out of there, which should have happened fucking yesteryear.

I recognize that the pictures might have a value in ending the war quicker and getting our boys home sooner, but right now the admin. seems dead set on keeping them there.

I honestly think release of "child torture" photos would make Iraq much more lethal for US troops. It would empower an already emboldened insurgency and weaken what little support we have there already.

[yppahemnkm]

12. I see no good coming of it.

I think it puts are troops in more danger.

[Richard Steele]

16. MORE danger? How, exactly?

The only NEW danger these photos will create
is the danger of a US political backlash
against the people who started this illegal war.

[txaslftist]

38. Higher frequency of attacks, higher level of lethality...

more dead American soldiers.

Imagine the Iraqis are here. Imagine you see a photo of one of them raping a 9 year old American girl on TV. Imagine you hear about "Sayiid Limbaugh on Al-Jazeera" who says it was justified. Imagine your reaction. Then imagine you have an AK-47 in your house and you see an American soldier walking down your street.

Do I have to do the math for you?

[Richard Steele]

43. No, I really, REALLY never want you doing any math for me!

Thanks, but no thanks!

Some of the math I do involves numbers
with 2 or even 3 digits...
while you seem to be struggling with "2 + 2".

[DistressedAmerican]

18. Hmmm.

[alarcojon]

20. Indeed. n/t

[txaslftist]

39. No troll hunting yet, boys. Hold your fire.

I know, low number of posts, conservative position, spleling prolbem, indiscipherable name...

Still not conclusive.

[DistressedAmerican]

47. Hence Just "Hmmm..."

[txaslftist]

52. Your patience is commendable.

[alarcojon]

53. Indeed again!

:)

[DistressedAmerican]

72. I Guess That Was A Driveby...

Too bad. I was hoping to plunge the depths of his/her motivation some before they disappeared.

[bpilgrim]

22. they already know all about it...

Baghdad graffiti from last year...

peace

[DistressedAmerican]

32. If True, Where Is The Mural Of Our Troops Raping A Boy In Front Of His

mother?

[bpilgrim]

73. they knew before we knew... they were passing notes to their loved ones

on the outside to come in and kill or rescue them well before the stories broke in the west :cry:

peace

[Mutley]

27. On the contrary.

The release of those photos, and the subsequent political backlash will show the people in Iraq that not all of us support this criminal of a "president".

[The Kicker]

102. Yes

It may also STOP the torture, rape and killing of imprisoned Iraqis.It seems as though some here value the lives of "our(U.S.)brothers and sisters" more than those of the Iraqis.

I guess them thar "towelheads" just don't deserve the regard us 'Murikan's do.:sarcasm:

[The Stranger]

58. Those who tortured put the troops in danger. The photos must be released.

No more lying. No more looking the other way, pretending not to see. To many thousands have died in the masquerade.

[TahitiNut]

63. Shall we count the things that put "are (sic) troops in danger"???

Let's start with the invasion of Iraq. Seems to me that's a biggie. Then let's count the number of innocent men, women, and children we blithely call "collateral damage" - what a wonderful inscription on a tombstone: "Here Lies Collateral Damage - b. 1997, d. 2003 - Beloved Daughter of Collateral Damage and Collateral Damage." Then let's count the people we murdered in Fallujah. Then, when we're done counting, let's count all the people killed when we were counting.

While we're at it, let's examine the continuing delays in armoring HumVees and the failure to provide troops with personal body armor (which they're buying themselves).

[happynewyear]

86. yeah knowing about raping children & women = not good

It certainly will not help the "image" of the USA. However, the "image" of the USA is shot to hell anyway.

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!

I guess you've never heard those words before have you?

Wouldn't want to put "are" troops in more danger now would we? :argh:

I suggest BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!

:kick:

[Walt Starr]

17. These photos are already all over the middle east

releasing them to the American public won't change anything there at all.

[cry baby]

36. If they are being shown over there, why haven't they made their

way over here, at least on the net? If they had been out, we would have herd about it. The stories are out there, but I'm not sure the pics have been shown in the ME.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

96. How could the NEW photos be 'all over the Middle East' yet not anywhere on

the Web? Are you misunderstanding, or are the rest of us? :shrug:

[K-W]

23. Iraqi's dont need the photos they were in the prison.

The only people who would be confronted with new horrors are the American people and they need to be confronted with what was done in thier name.

[The Stranger]

56. Too fucking bad -- that's the fault of the torturers.

THE TRUTH MUST BE KNOWN

[cynatnite]

57. Do you think the insurgency DOESN'T already know?

I believe Arab television has already discussed these new photos and videos. I don't doubt most of the Arab world already knows what horror is contained within them.

[txaslftist]

61. There's a big difference between 'knowing' and 'seeing'.

Ask anyone whose ever been a juror in a homicide case.

[cynatnite]

69. Yeah, but even the knowledge without seeing has already given them cause..

They've already got the first ones and with those as an example added to what's already been reported it's already a done deal.

To even imagine children being raped does not require any imagery to be outraged.

[NNN0LHI]

87. There is a big difference between "knowing or seeing" it and "living" it

Ask anyone who has been tortured. You don't think the people who were tortured told no one about it? The only people who don't really know what kind of crap was going on is the American people. Not a good thing.

Don

[mattclearing]

11. If we cared what other countries thought, we wouldn't have done it.

The truth should be revealed and we should be held to account.

[longship]

13. The truth is not always pleasant.

But it is always the truth that allows our society to grow, to learn, to account for its failures.

It took a century of sweeping things under the rug for us to learn that racism was wrong.

We need to embrace these pictures as fact so that our country will *never* *again* embrace torture.

[Seansky]

14. the entire country and all US citizens across the globe need to face

up to what our government has done, just like US and UN has forced other governments/countries to face up to what they have done...

It is our responsibility, regardless of whether we supported the war or no, to tell the world we won't be so irresponsible again by letting our government get away with these type of attrocities.

I am so mad I need to stop reading the news for a while......

[StopTheMorans]

15. seems like I've seen that somewhere else before

hmm...

[DistressedAmerican]

19. Nice One. Needs A New Count Though. Way Out Of Date.

[StopTheMorans]

31. as is the idea, i guess

:shrug:

[gratuitous]

21. I paid for 'em, I wanna see 'em

Besides, I don't suppose the victims of U.S. torture have all been killed, and so their stories are out there in the world, in places where the U.S. media are too squeamish to look. If someone's using tales of torture to foment more terroristic actions, then we are best served by knowing what's been going on in our name and with our tax dollars. Forewarned is forearmed, as the old saying goes.

The only people served by withholding these photos are the perpetrators of torture and their superiors.

[Mutley]

24. Yes.

As I said in that other thread; no one WANTS to see those pictures, but everyone MUST see them.

[Imagevision]

25. If 10-20 US. troops are killed? NO! why the fuck show em 4 your amusement!

we know the shit they pulled, Bush couldn't care less, "bring em on" but only more US. troops will get blown to bits because we think this will score more points against the Bush cartel... NOT...! won't do beans, and the slaughter will continue...all in the name of... "WMD's"

get real...!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

80. Or the electorate may demand accountability. But you're not our parent -

it's not for you to decide what we're up to seeing.

The problem is not the photos, but the acts.

[troubleinwinter]

28. "Let all of the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out"

[Imagevision]

30. I'm convinced with this post that republicans and democrats both suck

Repugs just have more audacity and balls then Dems...

[SaveAmerica]

34. There has to be accountability, doesn't mean I want to see them myself

I voted yes.

[Qibing Zero]

37. If we want to live in a free society, reality must be shown

This must stop NOW. Not just the torture, the needless killing as well. 'No more excuses' is right.

If common Iraqis are going to be emboldened to try to get us to leave after they see what the US is doing to not only 'combatants' but innocents as well, they fucking deserve to be.

If you're worried about the ever so vague 'terrorists' we're 'fighting' there being emboldened, please tell me how much more gung-ho you can get than blowing yourself up.

[txaslftist]

45. Right now 'common Iraqis' are neutral to hostile toward us.

This will make them universally hostile. That means there will be no safe place for our troops to put their heads in Iraq. They will not be 'trying to get us to leave'. They will be trying to kill American soldiers. That means bodies coming home in bags, families greiving for the loss of sons and daughters, kids without parents, wives without husbands.

Let me be as brutally honest about this as I can be. I value the lives of our troops more than I value the 'truth' of what happened in Abu Ghraib. I have a pretty good idea what happened, because I know what happens in US prisons, and the guys running Abu Ghraib were people who had run US prisons. So I suspect there was a lot of brutality, probably up to and including the rape and murder of children. There is a huge difference between reading about something or hearing about something and seeing a picture of something.

We need to get our troops the fuck out of Iraq. Then we can learn the 'truth'. Every pressure we can bring to bear to bring them home should be put forward, but that does not include turning Iraq into more of a death trap for them than it already is.

No principle is so absolute that it cannot be compromised for another principle. I put the safety of our people over 'seeing photos of how horrible we can be'.

[Qibing Zero]

48. So you value American lives over others?

That's really the only rational way to explain your post.

Put yourself in the average Iraqi's place. Should the US troops even be there? What future is in sight for you if those troops are there torturing your family?

Can you really blame those people, who just want to live, in a situation like that?

[txaslftist]

55. Yep. Gotta go with yes with on that question.

Call me a jingoistic redneck if you like, an ignoramus if you like...

Hell. My grandfather fought in WWII all across the Pacific and also in Korea. He did it because he valued American lives over the lives of others. He voted Democratic all his life, even when Democrats got us mixed up in SE Asia and he thought it was a mistake.

So yeah. I value American lives over the lives of others. And you tell me how publishing photos of American prison guards raping and killing children is going to save lives, while you're gaping at my lack of worldliness.

[joe_sixpack]

59. I wasn't aware

that American prison guards were said to be raping and killing children. I didn't realize it was that bad. Is that a fact? Is that what these pictures are reported to document?

[txaslftist]

60. That's the scuttlebutt.

We won't know, I guess, until we (or someone) sees the actual pictures and possibly video.

If that IS what it shows, I don't want it playing on Al-Jazeera.

[mondo joe]

82. You just made the case for releasing the photos: you don't know what's in

them.

The American people have the right to know what their president has done.

[flyarm]

66. Sy Hersh has seen and heard some of the tapes and

that is what he has reported..rape of little boys a dn little girls, rape of a mother in front of her children and the screaming of a little boy be sodomized!

brought to you by the * administration and gonzalez!!

fly

[DistressedAmerican]

76. Lindsey Grahm Was Pretty Graphic After He Saw The Stuff Too.

Said about the same as Hirsh.

Our Senators have seen the stuff. It seemed to freak them out.

[Qibing Zero]

62. I'll reserve judgement until I'm aware of your logic...

What exactly makes one life more important than the next?

Why do our soldiers deserve life while the Iraqis dying do not?


Also: Is your judgement on this issue due to the fact you seemingly can't relate to that Iraqi who is watching his or her country, family, and friends being torn apart, or is it something more?

[txaslftist]

104. IF the pictures show what I've been told...

and it is true, I DON'T know; then it will mean more killing, more rage and more death. That means more dead Iraqis AND more dead Americans. And yes, again, I value American Soldiers' lives MORE than I value the lives of others. That is not a position I can justify other than to say that's how I feel. I know it is not a just position or a fair one, and certainly doesn't make me a "citizen of the world". I'm not a citizen of the world, I'm a citizen of the US.

Some full bird colonel said that if the pictures are released, it will mean more 9-11s. I don't know if that is true or not. I am not willing to take that chance, although seemingly 97% of the responders here are. It will also mean that the debacle in Iraq might well deteriorate into a bloodbath in Iraq.

Listen, I hate the Republican Party as much if not more than anyone else here. I want them out of power, and I certainly recognize the utility of these pictures in that effort. I also recognize the value of telling Rush and Sean and Mike to STFU about "club Gitmo". I also recognize the value of waking the Murkin sheeple up about what our gummint is doing.

I don't favor suppressing these photos forever. I do favor delaying their release until our boys are home. I favor a public admission of what their contents are without their publication.

I know the inflammatory affect and the immediacy that a photo has, probably more than most people here because I deal in evidence daily. If the cost of these photos is more American dead and more Iraqi dead, I don't want them published.

[The Kicker]

106. "our boys"

Last I knew, we have "girls" over there too. I guess, like the Iraqi lives, our "girls" lives aren't as valuable to you as our "boys". Or so it seems by your choice of words.

[txaslftist]

108. By "our boys" I meant our soldiers, no matter the gender.

Don't even start with that gender crap with me.

[The Kicker]

109. Words have meaning.

What is so difficult about typing out "our men and women"? Gender crap? Why don't you say what you mean instead of assuming everyone "knows" what you mean. Gender crap? Whatever.:eyes:

[donheld]

70. If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel

If American's were the prisoners/rape victims etc. Would you still feel we should not see and know what went on? If iraqis were guilty of crimes like these would you prefer they stay in the dark so more american's would not hate Iraqis? Maybe you'd want the Iraqis to leave and then make known their crimes.

[mondo joe]

81. Sometimes living in a free society has risks. Those risks are worthile

for the future of our country and the world.

[bloom]

40. Some people are still in denial that the US military is torturing people

:(

[sniffa]

41. yes

but onLy for my amusement. :eyes:

[RC]

46. Get this abuse out into the light where it can be dealt with.

If it stays hidden, how will we know it was being dealt with in a manor to stop it? We all know what would happen. Keep it in the dark and nothing would happen. It needs to be exposed to be properly dealt with.

[Fire Walk With Me]

49. Yes if they cause positive change, no if they deepend people's denial.

[rodWA]

50. Yes. For the same reason the world needed to see the horrific

images of the holocaust. America now gets to feel the shame that so many other nations in the world have felt. So the next time some gobshite stands up and declares us superior, she/he will get a resounding FUCK OFF.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

67. Or these horrific images

Photos of the My Lai massacre, when US soldiers went nuts and killed 504 mostly women, children, and old people from an entire village in Vietnam. The information was suppressed by the Pentagon until one soldier, Ron Ridenour wrote a letter to President Nixon. Seymour Hersh then spoke to that soldier and broke the story. Even then, there were many rightwingers in America angry at Hersh and the media for making these horrific photos public.

[DistressedAmerican]

77. Good Call!

:patriot:

[rodWA]

88. Yes. Exactly. And all the other atrocities.

[SillyGoose]

51. Sadly, I voted yes because the sheeple think the torture committed was

nothing more than frat house pranks despite Rumsfeld and Lindsey Graham making statements to the contrary. I hope that if they are confronted with the damning truth in all its misery, they will wake up enough to demand punishment for those at the top who authorized this despicable behavior.

[OhioChick]

65. Yes.............

People need to see the atrocities committed. Seeing "is" believing.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

68. Of course yes. For those who say no: if U.S. soldiers had set up death

camps like Auschwitz, do you think those pics should be shown? How many Germans do you think were unable to think their countrymen were incapable of such acts until the photos and film were made public?

The reason is for the AMERICAN public to see. Too many, i.e. the hardcore shrub supporters, would never believe without pictures. Even then a few will not believe.

[pitohui]

75. i admit i have no interest in seeing the photos

i already know how i feel abt these issues & i don't need to get my blood pressure up any higher

however it is important for the doubters to see what is being done in the name of "freedom"

yes, they should be released as long as the victim's identities are protected, they can pixilate the faces or something to avoid embarrassing victims

[Berserker]

89. Our culture is so fucked up

and back wards. We see a beautiful naked woman and call it pornography when the real pornography should be shown on our protected TVs every day right at supper time.
Show our dead troops show the flag covered coffins show the dead Iraqi's show it show the torture photos show all this shit we try to hide from.
This country is so protected from our eyes so it won't offend people it makes me sick. This is the real America this is what we do. This is why these dirty war mongering bastards get away with this shit. We are a sterilized society.

[0007]

83. If they don't come out America is gonna be one pissed off

dog.

Watch Out!!

[mvd]

84. Yes!

If the sordid details of Clinton's scandal can be released, these certainly can be.

[jmowreader]

85. I voted yes because I live in America, dammit!

I don't live in Saudi Arabia.

I don't live in a country that beheads people, that amputates hands for theft, that tortures prisoners.

I live in a country where those things are abominations.

The fact that my own government is doing this crap, supposedly on my behalf, just pisses me off.

I want someone to hold these pictures in front of every Republican in America and say, "this is your mess. You fix it. You get rid of the bastard and all of his cronies."

And I want them to sit there and contemplate these photos until they remember what it is this country is about, and they get rid of the bastard.

Every day the Republicans go without getting rid of that little SOB is another day they tacitly approve of torturing prisoners. I want them to stand up and say, "this is America. We are better than this."

[4nic8em]

90. Absolutely release these pictures...

maybe the release of these horrors to the American public will inspire a recollection of Gonzalez allowing the "interpretation" of the Patriot Act to render useless the notion of the Geneva Convention and prisoner human rights, under the guise of keeping our asses "safe". Heard of "Club Gitmo"? Thats Rust Lumpbags "support the war" fraternity, you know, the "harmless pranks" that we should all condone and enjoy. This sounds like some really sick sh*t to me. If it's true, I want all of America to be aware and ever so proud of what the current leadership of our country is capable of doing. I guess we torture them over there so we don't have to torture them here. Sons o bitches.

[Berserker]

94. Great post 4nic8em

Welcome to DU

[mmonk]

91. Most definitely

The lights need to shine where the unassuming public can see what has happened.

[enki23]

92. yes. to keep it from happening again.

we need some powerful sunlight to kill this goddamned infection.

[JanMichael]

93. Americans need to see what's being done in their name.

No doubt the Iraqis already know, it's the dimwits here that need the wake-UP call.

[stevietheman]

97. Yes. Begin the Great American Catharsis!

The truth will set us free.

[hootinholler]

98. This boil on the neck of Lady Liberty is

Fucking HUGH!!1!

Lance that puppy and get it over with, it hurts!

252 to 8, wow.

-Hoot

[Lecky]

99. I voted yes but I refuse to look at them when they come out.

I only want them to be released because we have so many people in denial in this country, maybe they will wake up after viewing these horrible photos.

[eggman67]

100. Where's the undecided option? n/t

[LynnTheDem]

101. The Germans were in denial too, until proof was shown them.

It ain't the pictures...it's the torture, the raping, the murders.

And it won't stop until the proof is shown.

[NoBushAndCo]

103. Yes, Need to be Vetted n/t

[Pithlet]

107. Absolutely

If our country is going to commit war atrocities, then it had better well face the consequences. If they were so worried about the safety of our troops they never would have allowed it to happen in the first place. It is the fact that these things happened that endangers our troops, not the evidence of it. The deeds have already been done, and we will face the consequences of it whether those photos are open to the American public or not. There is no reason to keep us in the dark and ignorant except to make it easier for them to continue committing those atrocities.