How should we get out of Iraq?

[Quixote1818]

Buy the way, I don't know if that is really John McCain's plan but I had to give someone credit for it.

Edited to put in "US out UN" in as I forgot about that option.

[BlueJac]

1. By Plane

[whistle]

2. Order troops to prepare to evacuate, then leave....

[bemildred]

3. Walk due South. nt

[jjmalonejr]

4. You mean, invade Saudi Arabia?

nt

[bemildred]

10. Is there some part of "Walk due South" that confuses you? nt

[Quixote1818]

11. I think he/she was just making a joke as Saudi Arabia is south

of Iraq.

[Quixote1818]

12. Wow, I never noticed that Iran is surrounded by Iraq and Afghanistan

That seems like the prefect strategic situation for a two front war against Iran? Hummm

[bemildred]

16. Yeah, that has struck me a time or two also.

Purely a coincidence though, of course.

[jjmalonejr]

14. Thanks for posting the map

I wasn't joking. Walking due south seems pretty clear to me, and it doesn't sound like an exit strategy.

Maybe bemildred was joking, but I can't tell.

[jjmalonejr]

13. I don't think so, It sounds like you're advocating invading Saudi Arabia

Why not clear up the confusion if you think it exists instead of accusing me of being dense.

Is that what you are advocating? Or are you joking?

[bemildred]

15. I said nothing about Saudi Arabia.

The OP does not ask for an exit strategy, it asks how to
leave Iraq. I gave directions on how to get back to Kuwait.

[jjmalonejr]

20. OK, I get it.

You know, that wasn't exactly clear from your post.

I don't know why you had to ask me "Is there some part of "Walk due South" that confuses you?" like I was some kind of jerk.

Yes, there was some part of "walk due south" that confused me. The "walk due south" part. Saudi Arabia is due south of Iraq. Kuwait's in the far southeast corner.

Sorry if you were bothered by something I said, but I meant know harm. I think perhaps you misunderstood me.

[bluedawg12]

5. Draw down the troops, garrison them in strong

secure centers of control whose function is to train the Iraq's.

Then, get out.

Stop the suicidal patrols, exposing our troops to guerrilla warfare and IED's, in the midst of their civil war.

Draw down, garrison, and train. Then leave.

I can't quite accept that any diplomatic efforts with Syria- home of the Bath party will lead anywhere.

I can conceptualize diplomatic efforts with Iran.

Someone pointed out today that we fund our troops while we fund the Saud i's with our petro-dollars and they in turn fund the war against us. What a fVcking losing strategy these neoconnie egg heads came up with.

[Quixote1818]

7. Good point about Syria

nt

[MindPilot]

6. How to leave Iraq? Very simple: Hey guys, gather up your shit.

Get on the plane.

I also think as a country we should take no responsibility--fiscal or otherwise--for rebuilding or restructuring Iraq. We should just get the hell out.

Bush and his cronies love Iraq so much, they can go over there and mop up the mess with their own damn money. Since they clearly would rather be the leaders of Iraq than America, let them. See how long the Iraqis will tolerate their "leadership".

[Quixote1818]

9. If only Kerry could have fraised it that way!

[Ardis]

21. Ardis

Don`t forget every member of congress that voted for it,and every lobbist that lobbied for it.Everybody that supported it should be imprisoned and all their assets sized sold off and put towards the debt.

[MindPilot]

24. maybe they'll have to let some pot smokers out to make room

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[me b zola]

8. US out--completely, UN in--NOW

[welshTerrier2]

17. i really disagree with Clark's position on Iraq ...

Note: crossposted from GDP

Clark argues that we should push for a regional dialog with other Arab states including Syria and Iran ... i think that's great ... and he argues that we should work to turn off the flow of weapons and fighters going into Iraq ... well, that's fine too ...

but these ideas cannot succeed as long as the US is viewed as an imperialist occupation force ... and no "dialog" is going to change the hearts and minds of people in the Middle East anytime soon ... the US has been an abuser in the Middle East as far back as FDR if not before ... we assassinated Mossadeq in Iran ... we installed the tyrannical Shah ... we supported the tyrannical Saddam ... we invaded Iraq on a pack of lies ... we've propped up the hideous royal family in Saudi Arabia for decades ... and rightly or wrongly, US support for Israel is a major source of hatred for the US in the region ...

the US has squandered its good will and built a horrible reputation throughout the Middle East ... the idea that we could have bush convene a "dialog" to build credibility for any kind of peace or stability process, let alone democracy, while we continue to be imperialist occupiers is frankly absurd ... and to make matters worse, Clark supports the building of US military bases in the country ... he justifies this by arguing they are needed to safeguard American troops ... i can't think of a worse signal we could send to those worried about permanent American military occupation ...

I appreciate Clark's sincerity in looking for solutions in Iraq ... i think his ideas were exactly what was needed after the first Gulf war ... support from the region at that time should have been built upon ... unfortunately, greed and oil got in the way ...

the problem i have with General Clark's position, at least to the extent it is explained in the BP, is that General Clark seems unwilling to recognize the extent to which the US does not hold the moral suasion to drive any kind of negotiating process ... any path to peace or stability needs to start with the end of US occupation ... no one in the Middle East is going to trust the US or its motives while we continue to impose our will inside Iraq ... and furthermore, it is NOT at all clear that negotiating at a government to government level will resolve the infiltration issues either ... if we can't get Tehran to abandon its nuclear program, what makes General Clark believe we could get the Iranians to side with the US on quelling the violence inside Iraq ... you build good diplomatic relationships by respecting national sovereignty; not by invading and becoming a long-term occupation force ...

the solution to Iraq begins with withdrawal ... after that, we should look at the kind of regional negotiating framework, driven by the UN not the US, that Clark is calling for ... we cannot gain trust and act as neutral "umpires" when we're one of the teams in the game ...

sorry, Clarkies ... that's the way i see it ...

also, check out this other post that discusses the utter futility of trying to resolve Iraq's "insurgency crisis" by focussing on "foreign fighters": http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2112748&mesg_id=2112748

the only way to leave Iraq is to load the troops on the planes and leave ...

[Quixote1818]

26. You could be exactly right but I think it's at least worth a try.

You never know, they could be totally open to building bridges with the Democrats. Look at the difference in relations between the US and the Soviet Union. People want to get along with other nations.

If it doesn't work then we simply tell the soldiers, as one person put it: "Everyone gather up your shit and lets go."

At least then we can say we exhausted all our options. Then again, bringing in the UN is an option but I don't think the UN wants to get involved in that swamp.

[Jose Diablo]

18. It's really quite easy

50 Ways To Leave Your Lover Lyrics
Artist: Paul Simon

"The problem is all inside your head", she said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover

She said it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Ooo slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

She said it grieves me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again
I said I appreciate that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don't we both just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning you'll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me and I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free


Just pack the ruck sack, jump on the transport and leave. Now is that so hard?

Edit: Look, these people have been figuring out how to live their lives for what, 4-6,000 years. And now we, in the western civilization somehow know whats best for them?

It's easy, just leave, they will sort it all out for themselves. Maybe look sheepish and say we're sorry, but leave.

[bemildred]

19. Here is a withdrawal plan, if that's what is wanted:

The Plan: The National Command Authority orders all US forces redeployed out of Iraq within one month and out of the theater in two months. Any commander that fails to meet the deadline will be summarily relieved, and replaced with a commander that will thereby be placed on a shorter timeline. I can promise anyone who has no experience of the military that this is perfectly feasible, and that with that kind of command emphasis, the mission can and will be accomplished.

http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08252005.html

[meow mix]

22. it would be nice to avoid WW3 which is a potential outcome

if these escalate further..
how many of you enjoy living?

clark just seems to want it fixed ill follow him.

[Darranar]

23. The longer we stay, the more instability we create.

We must "cut and run" as soon as possible. The United States presence is only excaberating the problem.

The solution to a bad policy is not to continue the bad policy, it's to get rid of it.

[B Calm]

25. We need to admit that Bush is a war criminal, pull our troops out, and

put the adminstration on trial in the world court!

[markus]

27. In Boats