Would a Prohibition of Pornography cause a rise in sexual violence?

[dhinojosa]

--------Background-----------
The FBI is joining the Bush administration's War on Porn. And it's looking for a few good agents.

Early last month, the bureau's Washington Field Office began recruiting for a new anti-obscenity squad. Attached to the job posting was a July 29 Electronic Communication from FBI headquarters to all 56 field offices, describing the initiative as "one of the top priorities" of Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and, by extension, of "the Director." That would be FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1792492&mesg_id=1792492
------------------------------

So the poll question is, if there ever is a prohibition on pornography in this country, would there be a rise in sexual violence (rape, incest, molestation, etc.)?

[MsTryska]

1. i thought Porn was already prohibited here....

or maybe that's on a state by state basis.



either way, unless the FBI has figured out how to prohibit porn on the internet, it's still gonna be there. so i go with no.

[dhinojosa]

2. There are tons of stores in my city (Albuquerque, NM)

what state do you live in?

[MsTryska]

24. Georgia.....oddly enough there's

tons of stores here too, and strip clubs and everything....

HOWEVER - if i understand correctly - the pornos that can be bought legally are edited for cable so essentially no male naughty bits. females bits are fine - showing a penis - illegal. But that might also be on a county by county basis.

[mongo]

35. Nope.

Genuine 100% American made hard-core porn.

Technically, it's illegal here in Ohio too, but it's hard to get a conviction, expensive for the prosecutors, and generally makes them look like prudes.

Prior restraint of free speech is illegal. I can be arrested for any movie in my inventory, but a jury has to find it "obscene" for them to convict me for it. It's a crapshoot.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. the laws are silly,,,

a guy or gal can get on the net and see anything they want in seconds...

[HereSince1628]

3. No, but there would be a lot more arrests.

I suppose the notion of One Nation. Under lock and key appeals to some.

[Tiggeroshii]

4. If the crimes decrease in the world, they'll increase in prison

But people don't care about what goes on in there anyways...

[HereSince1628]

5. I hadn't considered that. I suspect you are right

[kweerwolf]

6. It all depends ...

If you believe the cathartic theory that porn lets viewers relieve pent up sexual tension, then the availability of porn would cause sexual violence to decrease.

If you believe the desensitizing theory that porn leads to seeking bigger and better "thrills" that can't be satisfied through viewing porn, the it would cause an increase in sexual violence.

Six of one, half-dozen of another. Take your pick. :shrug:

[mongo]

36. How 'bout we just consider it entertainment?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. With The Advent Of The Net How Can You Eliminate Porn?

It's ubiquitous....

[HereSince1628]

9. That's not the point. Being able to incarcerate people is the point

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Incarcerate Who...

80% of the domestic porn comes from a relatively small area- the San Fernando Valley...

I read the L A papers....

I don't see any big busts there...

[HereSince1628]

17. Liberal, Antifamily, Fornicators, Sodomists and GLBT types, of course!

Who are wrecking America for those pure hearted Dominionists

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. The Only Thing Dumber Than A War On Drugs Is A War On Porn

It's ubiquitous....


If the cons ever thought they could control porn that hope went out the window with the net...


I'm sympathetic to the argument that one can "overdose" on drugs and porn but that's not a legitimate argument to ban an activity because some folks can't control themselves.....

[HereSince1628]

29. I agree, but then, we can talk about that in jail!

[mongo]

37. Um - you can't overdose on something that isn't addictive

or altering, like porn.

You can become compulsive with washing your hands too.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Selected, Targeted Prosecution, for when other charges won't stick.

[HereSince1628]

31. Selective, put up charges when they can't find anything else

is more like it. Imagine how easy it is for folks with a Carnivore-like program to have the data to log into a porn site under someone else's userID.

[killbotfactory]

8. Not necessarily, but it would be a big waste of money

That would go right into the pockets of the people who run private prisons... So there you go.

[gollygee]

10. Huh?

Do you think people use porn instead of raping people?

I don't understand why there would be any connection between these two issues.

[mestup]

11. Has anyone actually studied the consumer base?

Are they talking about hard-core pornography? Do child molesters consume different types of porn than what's readily available through mainstream movies or magazines?

For example, you could wipe out much of the soft-core sexploitation of females in television programming and advertising by kicking it up a notch and showing male frontal nudity. Level the playing field, so to speak, and you'd suddenly find male voices decrying the excess of mainstream "pornography."

Would that decrease rates of rape, incest, molestation? Who knows.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. What's Hard Core Porn?

What's soft core porn?

[mestup]

19. That's what I mean - someone would have to define it.

[MsTryska]

25. hmmm....I'll know it when i see it.

:p

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. That Was Potter Stewart...

At one time the Supreme Court was a vote away from legalizing all porn....


That was a long time ago.....

[MsTryska]

28. yup.....nice catch! nt

nt

[DJ MEW]

34. what defines the two

If they actually show the penetration it is considered hardcore. Oral is considered soft core unless it is done in a violent or vigorous manner.
I know a guy the runs a head shop and I am friends with one of his chief employees and that is how they define hardcore and soft core.

[DBoon]

12. only indirectly

sexually repressive societies tend to be those where women are not treated well.

Banning porn is an aspect of the US becoming this sort of place.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Also The Way I Understand Stanley V Georgia

the private possession of obscenity or pornography is legal so one can theoretically pull whatever they want from the net....

Stanley V Georgia



http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=394&page=557

And pornographers could just use offshore servers....

Sounds dumb to me in any case...

[leftofthedial]

15. no, but it would trigger a national epidemic

of wifely headaches

[Guaranteed]

18. I've heard that where non-violent pornography is unavailable,

the incidence of rape increases.

However, the inverse is true of violent pornography.

[Yupster]

22. I worry about the truly weird stuff

the very violent or just weird. Would people even get the idea to do stuff like that if they didn't see it on the internet?

I think violent porn on the internet may cause more problems than it solves.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Violent Porn-Yeeeeecccccccchhhhhhhhh

But not much we can do about it....

[mongo]

42. I would tend to agree with you

But is there that much difference between that and an r-rated teenage horror slashfest?

[Guaranteed]

45. Or Passion of the Christ? nt

[mongo]

40. Do you have a source?

I would be very interested.

Most of the reputable studies show no correlation between porn and violence - although I don't know if they have studied "violent" porn.

[Guaranteed]

44. No, I don't. Somehow I knew someone would ask that.

It's just something that I've heard, more than once, actually.

Take it with a grain of salt.

[porphyrian]

26. No.

It would then just be entirely underground, which it practically is anyway. Despite what its detractors want you to think, pornography doesn't drive anyone to do anything except masturbate. People who commit acts of violence and/or rape would do so regardless of the existance of pornography, and are just using porn as a scapegoat and a possible way of getting a lesser sentence once they're caught. Obsessive thought and compulsive action occur because of a chemical imbalance in an individual, not because of the images one looks at.

[mongo]

43. You win the voice of reason award.

Ted Bundy never mentioned porn in two previous confessions, until Jerry Falwell talked to him - after that it was all porns fault.

[porphyrian]

48. Interesting you should bring up Bundy...

Until a little over a year ago, I used to live in Tallahassee, Florida. In fact, I worked on FSU campus in a building right next to where he parked his van the night he killed those sorority girls. Anyway, my father-in-law is a psychologist there, and he's familiar with the guy who interviewed Bundy shortly before his execution, the one that was taped where Ted blamed pornography for his killing. This guy is a crusader against porn, apparently, and has been trying to prove its horrible for some time. Anyway, it's my father-in-law's opinion that Bundy was just throwing the guy a bone in that interview and offering a final "screw you" to the rest of us by strengthening the anti-porn guy's case. After all, let's be honest. If pornography made men violent, no one would be left alive. It's the lack of sexual gratification that makes guys nuts. Even then, very few of us get violent.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. "It's the lack of sexual gratification that makes guys nuts"

Statements like that kinda scare me. The implication is that guys need to have sex with another person to acheive gratification and are thus entitled to use other people's bodies toward that end, though I know you don't mean it to be taken that way. But I think that is what causes sexual violence and abuse. Sexual gratification can be acheived through masturbation. It is not imperative that another person be available to facilitate it. If you can get a willing partner, great. If not, too bad. We have got to get that through our heads as a society or this shit will continue, porn or no porn.

That's why, though I'm no fan of porn, I don't blame it for rape and violence. There is a tremendous incidence of rape in Muslim countries where porn is prohibited. Male dominance and rigid gender roles are the problem IMO.

[porphyrian]

59. You're right, I didn't mean it that way.

I don't advocate rape. I meant to refer to sexually repressed men who sublimate their sexual energies in unhealthy ways.

[Wizard777]

30. Shouldn't we be hunting down and executing kids that wet the bed instead?

In this post 9/11 world can we really risk allowing them to go on to become serial killers and mass murderers? We need to take preemptive action right now! We need to introduce the Wet The Bed And You're Dead Act. If we put the electric chair in the picture opposed to the potty chair. Kids will relieve themselves BEFORE going to bed and there will be no more serial killers or mass murderers in the world. We can shut both off like a faucet!

This is from the horror movie Dr. Phil goes to Washington.

[mestup]

32. Prohibit any belief set that characterizes sex as a "sin."

That's the ONLY place to start.

[Burning Water]

33. I voted NO, because

I don't see the cause/effect relationship.

Anybody got a clue?

[the_spectator]

39. I'm disturbed by the increase in the anti-woman tone of MAINSTREAM porn.

First, I don't think a ban on porn (which I would oppose) would cause an increase in sexual violence.

Second, I am not opposed to pornography per se. In fact, I have been a consumer of it myself, I will admit.

HOWEVER, I am concerned by the trend in MAINSTREAM porn over the past 15 years or so.

Look, through the 80s, most mainstream porn scenes concluded with, and went no further, than vaginal sex.

By now, MAINSTREAM porn scenes are chock-full of rough anal sex in which the women who are subjected to it are clearly in pain. "DP"s (if you don't know, don't ask) used to be unseen; again, they are now standard fare for mainstream porn. Finally, the "money" shots seem to be "facials" as a RULE rather than as an occasional thing.

As man-centered as porn has always been, at least it used to be about regular, one-on-one sex. Now, in so many ways, it's not about creating the illusion of mutual pleasure; it's about playing to violent, degrading, anti-woman impulses. It's not pretty.

[mongo]

46. This is a mischaracterization

The largest companies, Wicked, Vivd, Adam & Eve do NOT produce "violent, degrading" porn. All of Adam & Eve's movies are certified by a team of psychologists as not "degrading"

Yes, there is more anal sex, and more facials. No more soft filters and the look of film like the 80's too. But there was plenty of anal in 80's movies too - and just as many if not more rape scenes.

[mestup]

50. You're so right on! How anyone can't see that neo-porn is...

..nothing more than a metaphor for males engaging in violent gay sex, is beyond me.

That they choose to use females as substitutes for their raging homophobia is truly sad, and sends a terrible message to impressionable young people. Male and female.

[blogslut]

58. say what?

I'm no fan of humilitainment porn but I really don't think it's based in homphobia.

[mongo]

60. LOL!

..nothing more than a metaphor for males engaging in violent gay sex, is beyond me.

That they choose to use females as substitutes for their raging homophobia is truly sad, and sends a terrible message to impressionable young people. Male and female.

Thanks for the laugh - I suppose that is because there isn't any gay porn out there at all, right?

Keep it up - you're doing a fine job living up to your username...

[methinks2]

41. hasn't it already!

what is the sexual violence rate in Amsterdam?

[Canuckistanian]

47. People will just go back to National Geographics

And the lingerie section of the Sears-Roebuck catalog.

[dhinojosa]

49. Ah the Sears Roebuck catalog.....

Providing happy imagery in my pubescent years.

[Behind the Aegis]

55. LOL!

Jim Palmer (baseballer) in his "tighty-whiteies!" There are plenty of "sexual" images in today's media...porn is almost a non-issue.

[prolesunited]

51. No

I don't believe sexual violence is about sex to begin with. It's about power and domination, not sexual gratification.

[mestup]

52. But hasn't our culture spent years tying sexual gratification to violence?

Think "horror films."

[Not_Giving_Up]

53. No. Rape is about power, not sex.

The rapist uses sex to obtain power.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. Very thought provoking!

I have no problem with "porn." I use quotes because porn is different to different people. Personally, I think porn is legitimate entertainment, just as I think prostitution is legitimate business.

But, would there be an increase in sexual violence if a ban was in place? Perhaps. Sometimes, I think porn is an outlet for people, for others more of an aphrodisiac, and still others, just fun. However, rape and sexual violence are not one in the same. Rape is about power not sex. As a survivor of rape, I can say it wasn't about sex, it was about his dominating me. So, lack of "porn" would have made no difference to him (and he was a stripper).

So, I have to say "I don't know." It could result in an increase in sexual crimes. I think, however, the real problems come from the "fear" of sex and sexuality, not the lack of access to it.

[Giant Robot]

56. Actually there was a study done during the Nixon

administration, like 1970-ish, on the linkage between porn and violence like rape and sexual assault. I read this report well over a decade ago, so my memory is a little fuzzy, and I really have no desire to try to track it down, so if that's what anyone feels they need, good luck finding it. Anyway, the report, which had a reasonable scientific basis to it, produced results that were not what Nixon wanted, so it was, well, covered up so to speak. It certainly wasn't widely publicized.

What the report showed is that there was a definite correlation between porn usage and sexual violence. But what it was, however, wasn't what some would think. It showed that the sexual offenders that had been tried and convicted had both less incidences of viewing porn, and if they had viewed it, started viewing it at a much later point in their lives than most of the non-offending folks. So there is some relationship between these two things, it may not be fully defined or understood, but it is there I believe.

There was another report on porn during the Reagan era. I think Ed Meese had something to do with that one. I never read it personally, but what I heard of it, the science was more fuzzy and it came off as a moralistic piece saying porn is bad, we just can't prove it. Just thought I'd share for what its worth.

[Mutley]

61. I'd like to see the stash of porn these guys have hidden in their closets.

[calico1]

62. I think there should be a Prohibition on

porn. Look how well the liquor Prohibition worked! :rofl: