How Would You Quantify Your Support Of Israel?

[THUNDER HANDS]

Just in general terms. Not anything relating to the recent incidents or the woebegone Roadmap to Peace.

[demnan]

1. I think Israel is about as badly managed as we are right now.

It is no longer the land of promise it once was.

[tom_paine]

2. No option for me to vote one

How about "Both sides are so crazy and filled with wrongness that supporting either is not possible."

That I could vote for.

[Sterling]

32. That is my vote too.

nt

[JackRiddler]

38. Wow, let me agree with that...

Or, more politely:

Israel has a right to exist, but it's policy has always been barbaric (not just under this government) and not surprisingly creates the conditions under which Palestinians show equally barbaric reactions.

The only solution is to stop seizing the Palestinians' land. That is the cause of the problems.

[bloom]

3. It would like to have a choice of :

Isreal has a right to exist along side of a Palestinian State.

[Padraig18]

4. Me, too!... n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Me three! n/t

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. I'm sorry

But I wanted to keep the discussion to Israel only.

(pssst, the walls have ears in this place).

:)

[Terran]

14. Impossible

Can't discuss the existence of Israel without discussing the Palestinians as well. If the aforementioned option had been given, I would have chosen it as well, but instead had to choose the hardline third option. I don't believe Israel has a "right" to exist in its current location.

[THUNDER HANDS]

16. why are the two seperate?

If you think Israel has a basic right to exist, ANYWHERE, then it has a right to exist.

Everything else is just the fine print.

[bloom]

17. Well I think it makes a difference.

One person might think:

Israel has a right to exist and Palestine DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST.

another:

Israel has a right to exist and so does Palstine and THEREFORE THEY HAVE TO SHARE THE COUNTRY.




Maybe that would be a good poll. Those two options.

or you could add - Israel has no right to exist - but I think most people would choose one of the first two.

[THUNDER HANDS]

18. well, the third one kinda represents that

And the examples that you gave both say that Israel has a right to exist.

Basically, No. 1 is for a staunch, conservative supporter of Israel. No. 2 is for a liberal, friend of Israel.
No. 3 is for someone who believes Israel has no right to claim that for its own and has never supported any of the country's policies.

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. LOL

Thanks for the radical anti-Israel comment. With comments like this, is it any wonder Israel needs nukes?

[rini]

49. Where would you put it?

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Too bad many of the Palestinians don't agree

nt

[oasis]

5. They need to recall Sharon.

[phillybri]

6. Ariel Sharon is a warmongering shitbag....

:kick:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

8. sharon's going to have a problem

when the White HOuse is no longer his echo chamber

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. The Dem party position is unconditional support for Israel

It is the one issue where Republicans and Democrats speak with one voice.

Any politician who strays too far from the Gary Bauer approved Rapture-Ready doctrine of unlimited funding and unwavering support for whatever Israel chooses to do would be well advised to consult with Cynthia McKinney about alternative careers.

[Taxi Driver]

11. So this means it's OK?

The Dem party is also in line with Republicans on globalization and trade.

[fla nocount]

13. You mean Nader was right?

There is no difference between the parties and the concept of choice if we choose to stay conventional is an illusion? What a concept.

[Taxi Driver]

15. Don't put words in my mouth.

You just need to recognize that AIPAC has a monopoly on both parties. And corporations also have significant influence on both. This does not mean that you should vote third party. What you should do is let your representatives know that you're aware and disapprove instead of saying, "Democrats support it, so it can't be bad."

[Selwynn]

21. MASSIVE AGREEMENT WITH THAT Taxi Driver

Sorry for the post spam, but after my little Nader dig, I needed to state seriously that I couldn't agree more with this post.

[fla nocount]

22. Not a third party voter.

Certainly not a fan of the ambulance chaser. While probably Green by nature, I realize that we won't stop the overt fascists by voting for anything but the same-o same-o from the Mickey D menu. Still, it would be nice to have a clear and definitive choice (call it a dream) and have a chance of being represented by real Men and real Women rather than the available gang of contortionsists who can jump backwards through their own a-holes while getting none on their ears.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Not exactly AIPAC

Americans support Israel in huge numbers. Try and stab Israel in the back and watch voters flock to the GOP.

[beanball]

45. Support for terrorist

seem to ba an american value.

[Selwynn]

20. Nader is right - that's why he's so unviable. :)

[DuctapeFatwa]

44. It means it's OK with the Democratic Party

Whether it is OK with you depends on how loyal you want to be to the Democratic party.

[Taxi Driver]

12. Oh, and

I would like to have the choice, "Israel has a right to exist, and ONLY THAT regardless of whether Labour or Likud is in charge." Because I support Israel's right to exist, but I'll be damned if I'm going to say that it's all Sharon's fault. Israel has been brutal for 50 years. The Six-Day War wasn't caused by teh Likud, which didn't even exist back then. Neither was the Deir Yassin massacre.

[Selwynn]

19. I believe US should stop supporting Israel's HR abuses...

war-crimes, violations of international law and the like, and I'd like it if we were a NEUTRAL (to use the word that got dean in trouble) negotiator for peace, and I wish that I criticism was equally levied on Israel as it is on Palestinians.

I do accept Israel's right to exist, but don't not have much respect for its government or our support of it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. I believe the UN

should stop supporting Palestinian human rights abuses.

[Forkboy]

39. Please illustrate for us how the UN supports Palestinian...

human rights abuses.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. By supporting the PA

Which supports terror. By singling out Israel for special bad treatment when massive human rights abuses abound in the world. By not being critical of the Palestinian terror groups. By not pointing out that Palestinian civilian deaths are a direct reflection of the fact that Palestinian terror groups hide in civilian population centers.

For starters of course.

[Forkboy]

51. You mean statements like these?

Annan condemns 'horrific' suicide bombing in Israel

4 October – United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan today strongly condemned the suicide bombing which killed at least 18 people in Haifa, Israel.

Calling the attack “horrific” in a statement released by his spokesman, Mr. Annan reiterated his “utter repugnance at all acts of terror, from whatever quarter.”

The statement also called on the Palestinian Authority to do everything in its power to halt these vicious attacks, which “only harm the Palestinian cause.”

Mr. Annan also conveyed his prayers for the families of the victims.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=8449&Cr=Palestin&Cr1=

SECRETARY-GENERAL CONDEMNS ‘MURDEROUS ATTACK’ IN ISRAEL,

REITERATES CALL FOR RETURN TO DIALOGUE

The following statement was issued today by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan:

The Secretary-General is greatly concerned by the continuing deterioration in relations between Israelis and Palestinians. He condemns in the strongest possible terms yesterday’s murderous attack in the Israeli city of Hadera, in which six Israeli citizens were killed, as he has condemned all indiscriminate killings of civilians. The Secretary-General calls on the Palestinian Authority to take immediate and effective action against those responsible.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/sgsm8102.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL CONDEMNS TERROR ATTACKS IN ISRAEL

The following statement was issued today by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan:

The Secretary-General condemns today’s two terror attacks by suicide bombers near Tel Aviv and in Jerusalem, in which at least 12 people were killed and many others injured. He conveys his deepest condolences to the families of the victims and to the Government of Israel.

The Secretary-General calls on Palestinian militant groups to halt these despicable and indiscriminate actions, which not only spread death and misery but harm the legitimate national aspirations of the Palestinian people. He reiterates his insistence that both sides should fulfil their obligations under international humanitarian law to protect civilians.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sgsm8858.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL CONDEMNS TERRORIST ATTACK IN TEL AVIV,

SAYS IT MUST NOT DERAIL PEACE PROCESS

The following statement was issued on 29 April by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan:

The Secretary-General condemns in the strongest possible terms tonight’s terrorist attack in Tel Aviv. He strongly urges Israelis and Palestinians not to let this morally reprehensible act derail the resumption of the peace process. The Secretary-General calls on all concerned to exercise maximum restraint and begin the implementation of the “road map” that will be presented shortly.

He reiterates his appeal to the Palestinians to pursue non-violent policies and urges the Palestinian Authority to make every effort to stop these terrorist acts against Israelis. The Secretary-General remains convinced that there is no alternative to a political solution of the long-standing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sgsm8681.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL ‘DISMAYED’ BY BEIT SHE’AN ATTACK, CONDEMNS SUCH TERRORIST

ACTS AS ‘EXTREMELY HARMFUL TO PALESTINIAN CAUSE’

This is the text of a statement today by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan:

The Secretary-General is dismayed by the attack yesterday in the Israeli town of Beit She’an, in which Palestinian gunmen killed six Israelis and wounded many others. He reiterates his utter condemnation of such terrorist acts against civilians, which are extremely harmful to the Palestinian cause.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/sgsm8533.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL CONDEMNS 'DESPICABLE' HEBRON TERRORIST ATTACK

The following was issued today by the Spokesman for Secretary-General

Kofi Annan:

The Secretary-General is horrified by the despicable terrorist attack in the

West Bank town of Hebron that today killed 10 Jewish worshippers on their way to the Sabbath eve prayers and left many injured. He condemns this latest terrorist act against Israeli civilians in the strongest possible terms and conveys his heartfelt condolences to the families of victims and to the Government of Israel.

The Secretary-General reiterates his appeal to all Palestinian groups to stop all such acts of senseless violence, which are extremely harmful to the Palestinian cause.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/sgsm8498.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL CONDEMNS BOMBINGS IN JERUSALEM, HAIFA AS TERRORISM;

CALLS ON PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY TO BRING THOSE RESPONSIBLE TO JUSTICE

The following statement was issued by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Sunday, 2 December:

The Secretary-General is shocked and horrified by the bombings in Jerusalem and Haifa that have taken such a heavy toll of human life in the past few hours. No cause and no motive can ever justify the deliberate murder of innocent civilians. The Secretary General unequivocally condemns these acts as terrorism. They undermine those who are working on all sides for peace and justice.

The Secretary-General calls on the Palestinian Authority to take immediate and decisive action to arrest and bring to justice those responsible for these and earlier acts of terrorism.

The Secretary-General sends his heartfelt condolences to the families of all those who were killed or injured in the bomb attacks, and to the Government of Israel.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/sgsm8056.doc.htm

This just for starters of course.

I suggest you bookmark this so you can no longer feign ignorance when this subject comes up again.Also,I suggest actually reading these links instead of spouting the usual right-wing p.o.v.

[MrPrax]

27. I believe...

that if the UN (the irrelevent debating society) had a magic wand that could artificially create a nation of questionable legitmacy, then it can wave that magic wand and create Palestine immediately.


If it can't do one, then the other shouldn't exist.

Funny how liberals and 'leftists' can't see the Middle East in the terms of 'white people' stealing 'brown' people's land--AGAIN

It has often be said that South Africa caused as much of a moral inconsistency for the Right as Israel does for the Left.

[THUNDER HANDS]

28. um...hmm....

....well....um.....

I'd hardly call the Jewish people a bunch of 'white people' any more than I'd call the Palestinians 'brown people'.

Their basically both the same people. Line up 10 Israelis and 10 Palestinians and I bet you wouldn't go 10 for 10 in figuring out which was which.

They both trace their roots back to the same spot, basically.

This is not, IMO, morally equivilent to what America did with the native americans.

[MrPrax]

30. Your rap makes no sense dude

The white ones are the invaders...you can tell them by the heavy brooklyn, German, Russian accents and the importation of 'western' custom (the particular custom of trying to turn deserts in places that resemble Arizona)...

"They both trace their roots back to the same spot, basically." BOTH?...yeah right
You and I can trace our roots back to Africa--why don't we claim that as our 'homeland'...jeez

Be consistent...you would no more put up with having your land, water, economy and birthright taken by some guy fresh off a plane from Heathrow whose sole legitimacy to taking your land is that he has 200 nukes?
And IF YOU BELIEVE in the right of conquest--BE HONEST

[Taxi Driver]

31. No that's incorrect and quite racist

Almost half of the Israeli population is Sephardi or Mizrachi.

PS if you don't know what that means, then you shouldn't be discussing Israel's many ethnicities.

[rman]

33. so the other half would be ashkenazi: white jews

10 jews next 10 palestines: 5 jews would stand out.
that's odd to say the least.

[DuctapeFatwa]

35. Many Americans are black and brown but it's a white man's country

Same with Israel.

When's the last time you saw an Ethiopian or Yemeni Jew on Fox news calling Palestinians animals?

[THUNDER HANDS]

36. I've never seen any jew call a Palestinian an 'animal'

[Forkboy]

40. Go down to F/A

according to one of DU's posters Arabs have their own smell.

[THUNDER HANDS]

42. on TELEVISION

People who post on DU aren't exactly foreign policy experts.

[Forkboy]

43. I'm not sure about the ones on TV either

:)

[DuctapeFatwa]

47. Watch MSNBC and FoxNews, you will

I don't know if I have heard it on CNN or not, I know I have heard it on the other 2, on many occasions.

I have also noticed that Israeli political leaders seem to be mostly European immigrants, or the children of same.

Palestine is not the first ancient land that did not demonstrate great enthusiasm for European invaders.

If you look back through the last few centuries, you will see that this is not an uncommon occurrence.

[Taxi Driver]

41. Ranaan Gissin is always on tv

He's a Sharon adviser and Sephardi. I don't think he'd be calling Palestinians "animals" though.

Judging from my experience Sephardis are the most anti-Palestinian. I think this is because after the State of Israel was established, their governments began harassing them. They feel indignant.

I have Sephardi friends but no Ashkenazi friends, even though I am anti-occupation.

[sujan]

29. #3

[ikojo]

34. I've never been to Israel and would love to visit.

They have taken a turn for the worse in so many ways...not only is Sharon a hardcore right-winger in the Bush mold but the country has abandoned many of the democratic socialist principals upon which it was founded. It has adopted the American attitude that it's survival of the fittest.

When I was 17 I wanted to move to Israel and live on a kibbutz but let my highschool guidance counselor talk me out of it. Even the kibbutzim have adopted capitalism as the model. Few are run as collectives anymore.

To disagree with Israel's policies is not to think the state does not have the right to exist.

[qwertyMike]

37. Israel has a right to exist

as a Province of a Palestine state

[sujan]

48. true

[GabysPoppy]

50. Locking this thread

All threads of Israeli/Palestinian content belong in the I/P forum. This thread would be locked there because it is not a current news story or editorial.

GabysPoppy

DU Moderator