We, as democrats, are losing the battle.....

[FM Arouet666]

I am sickened about the recent disaster and what it means for our future. Allow me to explain my realization.

I work in a red state in a profession filled with republicans. I live in an affluent republican neighborhood and I am constantly bombarded with right wing rhetoric. Except for my wife, I know of only two other democrats with which I interact.

After Katrina hit the coast, everyone was disgusted by the tragic loss of life. Right wing cable news actually showed a bit of integrity, reporting without spin. Conservatives in my sphere were as outraged as I, how could such a tragedy be compounded by incompetence? Why were we not ready, after 9-11 there can be no excuse!

Then came the spin, cable news, hate radio, conservative press started to twist the facts. Don't point fingers, we were told, while those admonishing us to refrain began their insidious spin, assigning responsibility toward the opposition, away from conservatives.

Those same republicans I had spoken with a week earlier, blaming the administration, had changed course. "The local government is to blame, Nagin is guilty, Blanco is incompetent, the corrupt local government had the money to fix the levees long ago, but pissed it away.... etc etc." "Sure the FEMA director was bad, but it was not Dubya's fault, how could anyone have anticipated a category five hurricane?"

I decompensated Friday after hearing this for a week, informing those in my work space to "Shut the fuck up, and if they didn't like it, get the fuck out of my room." I felt better for a bit, but a sickening realization has set in.

Before my melt down I asked those spouting GOP talking points where they got their news, why the flip-flop in support of Bush after such an obvious display of incompetence. Why, they saw it on the news, O'Reilley, Rush, CNN, Fox etc. The more "learned" said that they had researched the issues completely, the source, the Wall Street Journal.

Sixty Million Americans voted for the chimp and these same people consume right wing media. The truth has been spun with Rovian talking points and now bears no resemblance to the facts. There is no great upheaval among conservatives, they are back in goose step with their leader.

Nothing will change if progressives fail to get the truth out. Cable and T.V news are conservative, the radio is conservative, the print media is probably 50% and all we have is the internet. Someone please tell me how we are going to change the current trend? Sure, chimpy's numbers are down and a 2006 forcast looks good for democrats, but I fear this will all change as the election nears. Propaganda will cloud the minds of the media consumer, lacking in critical thinking, too afraid or too lazy to look for the truth.

A link to the article which prompted me to post my diatribe. Now excuse me while I go throw up. :evilfrown: :puke:

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/43/deadline-finke.php

[MissWaverly]

1. Time and Newsweek told it like it is

Also what is scaring Republicans is that they realize how helpless
George is w/o Karl Rove, who was hospitalized during 2 days of the crisis. Karl is back up on the active list and is calling Cindy Sheehan
a "clown." What you do not realize is that a large part of his base is
not fooled, and Weldon is still digging up material on Atta and Able
Danger. The Pentagon now confirms there are staff saying that they
knew about Atta, the truth is being to pour out everywhere. Toto truly
has pulled the curtain back on the Wizard of Oz.

[FM Arouet666]

7. I agree, the truth is hemorrhaging from every GOP levee

However, we are talking about an administration which got re-elected after taking the country to war for WMDs they knew were there, 100%, yet found nothing.

Progressives tend to take the time to read alternate sources and discover the facts before offering an opinion. I don't think conservatives do, the large number of right wing media outlets has bred a population of followers.

I listened to two colleagues argue over the issues, one stating that Hannity was an idiot, but Fox was a reliable network, the other disagreeing, stating MSNBC was better, but O'Reilly was the genuine article.

Members of Bush's base in my area have not given up on the chimp. Progressives cannot assume that because all appears bad for the GOP, a spark of sanity will ignite in his followers. The spark was extinguished in little over a week in my area.

[MissWaverly]

40. I was thinking about you today

My boss is a doctor, she told me that 154 patients were left to die
and were never evacuated, that ought to strike a chord with the home
team up your way.

[pretzel4gore]

13. cindy should challenge rove to a fistfight

i'm serious....cindy wouldn't have to worry about rove accepting (whether he a coward or just the repukelican idee of male supremecy etc) he caught on horns of dilemma! chris rock should demand awgeebush meet him for a battle of the wits....the crazed racist punk bush also would be forced to fall back on 'propriety' he meanwhile mocks every day to avoid it...
i wish someone would make the destruction of our civilization personal, as it is personal

[MissWaverly]

36. I remember as a kid watching detective shows

There was always the last 10 minutes when the wrongdoer was "unmasked."
That is what is happening now. How any public servant which Karl Rove
is (since we not George pay his salary) would refer to the mother of a dead soldier as a "clown." It is so far from normal that it is pathetic, why is it that this crowd resembles racketeers more than
civil servants. I cannot imagine anyone in any staff of any president
before George acting like this. It is simply intolerable.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. Newsweek often has some good articles - the dummies don't read....

n/t

[natrat]

2. it's all over now

You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last.
But whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast.
Yonder stands your orphan with his gun,
Crying like a fire in the sun.
Look out the saints are comin' through
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense.
Take what you have gathered from coincidence.
The empty-handed painter from your streets
Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets.
This sky, too, is folding under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

All your seasick sailors, they are rowing home.
All your reindeer armies, are all going home.
The lover who just walked out your door
Has taken all his blankets from the floor.
The carpet, too, is moving under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Leave your stepping stones behind, something calls for you.
Forget the dead you've left, they will not follow you.
The vagabond who's rapping at your door
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Strike another match, go start anew
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

[GreenArrow]

3. the Truth will eventually set in, alas, too late,

and "there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth."

[Butterflies]

4. I agree

I live around and work with lots of Repubs too, and I don't talk politics with them anymore. If they bring something up I'll give them the reasons why what they are saying is wrong, but most of them are too brainwashed to hear me anyway. I'm just hoping the backlash against the neocons is on it's way . . .

[whyzayker]

5. Words to live by

No one can say you failed - until you quit trying.

Just a thought.

[Guaranteed]

6. Gee, I hate to disagree. I think the Bush Administration has taken

a massive hit over this.

We all have an understanding that it is ultimately the federal government's responsibility to ensure that the people of our country are SAFE. If people are saying otherwise, I suggest that you make sure that they spell the idea out quite clearly to you, and maybe even put it in writing.

This was a multi-state disaster. To think that the federal government wasn't going to get involved is RIDICULOUS- and they didn't even react for four days.

So, I'm sorry, their whole argument is a farce. In fact, IN their argument they're doing nothing but demeaning their own man, George Chimpy Bush. They're saying it wasn't his responsibility. Clearly, it was- but, it seems that they don't WANT him to have so much responsibility.

And that's a fucking shame.

Maybe we shouldn't be letting him start wars, either.

[FM Arouet666]

9. I hope your right, but the repugs I have spoken with are still delusional

When I stated that FEMA, and by extension the Bush administration was largely to blame for the aftermath, I was rebuffed. Blanco did not call in aid on time, she forbid the national guard from going into the area, she acted only after Bush prompted her... etc etc.

Those putting forth this crap are not radical ideologues, these are well educated professionals. Doctors, hospital administrators etc

After such a gross display of cronyism, incompetence, corporate greed, I would think there was not a person on earth who could support Bush. I guess what I am saying is that we cannot assume that all the bad news for the GOP is going to work in our favor. Don't let your guard down.

[Guaranteed]

10. Make analogies and exaggerate (???) their position.

The position that your coworkers are taking is that the federal government has NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WELL-BEING OF THE CITIZENS OF LOUISIANA, MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA???

Did Giuliani have to "call for" the federal government's help when the WTC's were destroyed by terrorists?

Or did Bush just decide that "maybe he should get involved" because Pataki or Giuliani called him up?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

They're trying to get RID OF their own responsibilities.

Well, you know, if you don't take responsibility, you lose power, as well.

And if they're not going to take the responsibility to PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF OUR COUNTRY, then they don't get to make these huge decisions and have their buddies make billions of dollars off of them, either.

Tell them that it is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE to be saying shit like that, while ACTING as if you're supporting somebody who is supposed to be POTUS. These kinds of excuses are unbelievable.

PUT IT THIS WAY::::::::::


IF BUSH DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN CHARGE, HE CAN RESIGN.

[FM Arouet666]

18. I hear you, and I agree

Hence my melt down. I just cannot understand how intransigent people can be in support of this administration. Logic seems to fall upon deaf ears, I have argued until I was blue in the face, with damn little to show for it.

However, I do agree with the poster below, you have to continue to get the truth out.

Conservatives tend to believe the nonsense they are told, if Rush says FEMA is there only to assist the local government, then they buy the crap. One person told me it was the "Louisiana FEMA" that was at fault not the federal FEMA. After telling her what the fuck the F in FEMA stood for, I had to stop the argument for fear of committing a homicide.

[Guaranteed]

27. You have to REFRAME *WHAT* they are being told.

What they are being told is that the federal government isn't supposed to have any responsibility, and, thus, no power.

Put it to them in those terms. If the man at the head of our GODDAMNED ****COUNTRY**** isn't supposed to have any power, then, as far as I'm concerned, he can just shut the fuck up on just about everything.

They've put all this faith in him, and now they're SAYING HE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A LEADER AT ALL. No! That's not what the Chimp is supposed to be! He's not SUPPOSED to be a leader!!

Anyway, I think you get the idea. There are a lot of different ways of saying what I'm saying. But this approach that they're taking has a lot of judo-potential. Oh, it just wasn't his responsibility. Think about where you can go with that. The possibilities are endless.

Go and kick the shit out of them.

[MissWaverly]

32. tell them that FEMA made volunteer docs mop the floor while

patients died in front of them, they holed up 600 firefighters
in a hotel and lectured them on protocol. I think that it will grab
their attention, buy the Time and Newsweek and leave it sitting in the breakroom.

[TankLV]

39. At least we now know who the idiotic 35% who still support these criminals

are!

[LondonReign2]

42. If they are doctors and nurses, I'm gong to assume they aren't stupid

So, they are merely brainwashed and/or selish.

So would showing them the timeline of what actually happened with Katrina sway them? Perhaps back them into a corner with, "IF I could show you FACTS that disagreed with what you've said, would you be willing to admit you are wrong and change your mind"?

[FM Arouet666]

48. Stupid, no, content to keep the status quo, yes

People believe what they want to believe, and you can point out the truth repeatedly, and they will tend to return to those who feed them what they want to hear.

It is not always futile, I think I have made the anesthesiologist in the room rethink where he gets his news.

[JDPriestly]

8. My advice to people in the author's situation.

Buy a card table. Make some signs that don't take positions but merely ask questions on the issues. Put up your table in a public venue -- a local farmer's market or popular park. Copy some fact and/or issue papers from the internet -- articles you like from your favorite Blog. Choose topics likely to appeal to conservatives -- like Bush's deficits, the inadequate funding for the No Child Left Behind, Bush's failure to give our troops the things they need, the failure of the whole Iraq venture, cost of health care, the bungling of the Katrina effort by FEMA, the campaign against Social Security, etc.

Ask a friend, your children, your wife, someone who agrees with your political views to "table" with you. Here's how you "table." With your biggest, most friendly, most disarming smile on your face, you hand out those fact and issue papers you got from the internet to those who pass by you in the public place that you have chosen. Do this two to four hours every week in the same place at the same time.

Some people will stop to talk. If they disagree with you, just tell them you guess you will have to agree to disagree, smile in a friendly way and invite them to take your information and read it anyway. You will be surprised at how many people actually agree with you on this or that issue. Spend lots of time with this bunch. Get to know them. Appear regularly in the same place. People will begin to expect you to be there and will develop a relationship with you.

Never get angry with anyone. Just be patient. Slowly but surely common sense will prevail with an ever increasing number of the people you talk to. The most important things are to enjoy what you are doing, be honest, be yourself and don't get mad. Don't blame the Republicans for their misinformation and self-defeating views. You wouldn't blame a pre-school child for not knowing how to read, would you? The people you meet are your students. Treat them gently. Introduce them to your ideas slowly and patiently. It will be very difficult for people to admit they are wrong, but, as they begin to know and like you, a few and then a few more will become interested in your point of view and some will begin to agree with you.

Your right-wing friends are repeating what they are hearing in the media. If you love them and speak to them with respect, they will appreciate your telling them the truth. Always seek common ground. One such common ground is the universal need to call politicians with regard to corruption and paybacks. The Bush cabal has big problems in that area. You might want to start your tabling with information on this issue.

Try it. Through this means, you can change a few voters' minds, if not the world. And you will feel good about the new friends you make. That is what democracy is all about.

[Jeanette in FL]

11. We are not losing

Everyday Bush's poll numbers are lower than the day before. Yes this is hard work to inform the uninformed. But it is our duty. My husband asks me everyday, "Why do you do this, the American people are stupid?". "Because I have to". And every day, I turn someone on to the truth.

When I come across diehard Repubicans defending Bush I ask them three questions:
1. What do you know about PNAC?
2. What do you know about Arbusto?
3. What do you know about Diebold?

Usually, I get the deer in the headlights look. Sheepishly, they will say that they don't know what I am talking about. That is when I tell them that they are too uninformed to continue the discussion.

Either they will try to educate themselves or they will continue to drink the Koolaid.

Since the 2000 election, there has not been a day that has past that someone hasn't said to me, "You were right". Lord knows I didn't want to be right, but I have chosen to continue fighting along with the rest of you. We have to and to quote our pResident "It's hard work".

[MelissaB]

12. Great set of questions!

Mind if I use them?

[Jeanette in FL]

14. Be my guest

It is very disarming, without being confrontational. At that point they know they don't know what they are talking about.

[MelissaB]

15. Thanks, neighbor!

I'm in Alabama. :hi:

[FM Arouet666]

22. I agree, and even saw a glimmer of hope

After my diatribe in the operating room, yes I told everyone during an operation to shut the F* up and leave, the anesthesiologist came up to me the next day and we talked about politics. He is a very kind, intelligent person, but a republican. He brought up his points and I countered them with references he could find on the internet. I think he is actually thinking about what I said.

Thanks for the three questions, I will use them in round two with this individual on monday. Progressives will have to win, one vote at a time.

[Jeanette in FL]

24. Another thing about your original post

I monitor right wing radio, where most of them get their "facts". I start off with some local yokels who start "the spout of the day". Then I move on to Neal Boortz, Rush, Sean Hannity, all the same, all on the same page. So then it becomes so easy to diffuse them. The "believers" will then use these newly founded "facts" to argue. It becomes so easy.

The other day one of my neighbors told me that I was a "sexual intellectual", "a fucking know it all". I said "Thank you for the compliment". He really is alright, because everyday he will ask me a question and I know that he thinks about my answers.

[FM Arouet666]

28. You have a stronger stomach than I

I start with Laura Ingram, then Michael Medved and Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly, and round out the day with Michael Savage. I listen as I drive between work sites. Lots of aggressive driving and yelling at the radio. I can only listen for a few minutes at a time before a rage sets in. But it is important to try, your right the die hards get their facts from hate radio, and it is easily refuted.

[Jeanette in FL]

31. I learned early to sit quietly and observe

I would argue loudly until one day someone I truely admired told me "sit quietly and observe". "Just watch". I thought that would be impossible, but then, that is when I learned the most, to just be quiet and observe. That is when I learned to ask the questions that I ask. People who are listening to the debate, got so much more from my silence than my argueing. When you ask questions and they cannot answer or defend anymore says volumns for those who are listening. When it becomes a screamfest, it turns off everyone.

[TheStates]

16. Remember its not Bush. Its Diebold and the GOP!!!!!!

Get rid of the lies, the whole thing equals Diebold and the GOP they are responsible, and they are the whole bit.

They allowed Bush and every crime to happen and the treason. Keep the issue focused on THEM!!!!

End the lie: Take back the whole thing and issue the blame where it belongs, the entire GOP conservative agenda.

Verified Paper Ballots and NO MORE SECRET COUNTING....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0501/S00155.htm

Support Rush Holt and get his legislation shoved through congress!

[emulatorloo]

17. If they are reading the Wall Street Journal NEWS pages, not good for Bush

WSJ news division has had some pretty hardhitting stuff about FEMA failures.

Of course the nuts on the editorial page are still delusional.

[FM Arouet666]

20. Your correct

The editorials were what this one person was referring to. I think conservatives are filtering out the bad for positive spin. Gawd forbid their world view is all a load of crap.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. WSJ has a very good news department, and a lousy

editorial department... the NYT has a great editorial page, but the rest of the paper is not even good for fish wrap or parrot cage paper liner... yes I give credit where it is due, Randhi Rhodes... and she is right

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I agree with you actually

and fired this to my critter... for I am fed up...

Dear Congress woman

There are several points about Katrina but they all seem to come down to one point: Cronyism and a culture of corruption not seen since the Guilded Age. Now what we are seeing is Little Baghdad, with all the big corporations already moving in with no bid contracts... and the locals pushed aside per American Enterprise Institute Plan, and to make the joke on all of us even sweeter, Karl Rove in charge of the 200B.

Speaking of that money, what programs are going to be destroyed? I mean we are already living on the credit card but I guess phase two of the government destruction is now ahead of schedule thanks to Katrina. Oh and need I mention Rove's possible role in outing a CIA agent, which is nothing short of treason? (By the way a real president would have asked for shared sacrifices and gasp, higher taxes)

Then some wonder why people like me have had it, and will not take nothing less than impeachment and the trial of the whole cabal for yes treason. Taking the country to war on false pretenses is a violation of national and international law... and now this so called response, the incompetence was not coincidental. Yes if these were white folks, (I am white and I recognize the racism and classism here) who were middle to upper class, FEMA would have been outstanding, like they were this week in NC. The Counties affected are rather well heeled.

There is a class war going on in this country. These people hate the poor, the disadvantaged and the colored. No doubt in my mind about this any more. Of course what they have also accomplished is the complete lack of trust in all institution, ranging from Government, (A republican goal, after all they hate government) to the media (which has sold out and needs many a monopoly broken, and the Fairness Doctrine needs to come back), to state and local. I know today that if a killer quake hits San Diego, I am on my own. I also know today that voting may be an exercise in futility (electronic computers GEMS database... in case you wonder San Diego County uses the damn database, even if there is a paper trail)

So many Democrats are deluding themselves if they think an election will make a difference. After all, to quote Joseph Stalin, it does not matter who votes, but who counts the votes. At least I have lived in a country likes that, just never thought that the United States would follow that route as well... yes I was naive, as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

By the way, I am sure you missed the Guardian Article where they noted something interesting, that most of us paying attention already knew. The United States population is united maybe by a flag, but for all intents and purposes has been atomized to quite possibly the point of no return. I have shared this thought with my brother in law, and now I will share them with you... reaching for the Historian's Hat.

1._ I expect a nice hot civil war in this country, or rather the cold civil war to heat up and include bullets soon..
2.- I don't expect to die in the United States, but to die in any of the three to four successor states that will come after the country breaks apart.

This process may still be reversed, but in order to do such Democrats need to stop looking like Republicans, and Democrats must embrace the people. Look at Kucinich, that is a leader I could follow (ok his 30 second spot needs work but still) The party needs to stop dancing to the Republican dance. You have an opportunity, and yes they will accuse you of politicing Katrina (which I will remind you, they messed up, royally and on purpose)

Now while the break down of the country into successor states may be stopped, what is not going to stop, and this is the REPUBLICAN legacy, is the fact that this country is NO LONGER a super power. By the time they are done, the only people carrying arms in the US will be those damn Mercs from among other places BlackWater, which reminds me... ask yourself, when was the last time Mercs patrolled American Streets? If you said during the American Revolution, give yourself a pat on the back. (Hessian troops to be specific, brought by the Empire to fight us damn Colonials)

Now what is the problem with Mercs? They are loyal to money, they are not loyal to the government, and they will turn at the sign of a better contract. I guess though that if they are ordered to open fire against American Civilians they will do such... the NG, Kent notwithstanding, probably will not, and the same goes for the US Active Duty Component. This brings me to the next item... Posse Comitatus: The Right is chomping at the bit of getting rid of it and increasing the Imperial Powers of the Presidency to the point that we might as well hang this shingle called we the people... for the powers of the President are not consistent with those given by our Founding Fathers. But hey, I know many will say but the military will be able to handle these disasters (Just listen to CNN or FOX) , and to do that they need to have police powers... yep right, that is why Posse was passed to prevent policing by the regular military. As is, the powers of FEMA are quite impressive, of course they only work when FEMA is staffed by professionals, not lackeys (and yes Chertoff must resign as well) .

So yes I tell you right now, what we face is quite possibly a fork on the road, Empire, civil war, dissolution, or the reestablishment of the Republic and an open account of what has been done in our name. You did not choose to serve at this critical time, yet you are my rep in Congress... what will it be Congress Woman, what will it be?

Sincerely,

[Lexingtonian]

23. to be blunt

This is what they've all been doing all along. The way it works is that the Believers give up when there really is no plausible excuse left whatsoever- and it's been demonstrated to them. None of that 'reasonable' or 'humane' (i.e. 'liberal') stuff.

But I wouldn't be so depressive about it- when they have nothing left they give up on goodwill and desperate efforts at some kind of coherence, then some minor thing kills their last benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry you have that kind of environment- and let me suggest to you that if you can, don't go antagonistic to these people. There is nothing you can do by argument other than be their foil. Staying reasonable and well informed and maintaining your integrity is your job, of maintaining polite skepticism of their latest effort at Belief. Reality alone is the eloquent, though blunt, argument that gets to them.

About the article...remember that no one with substantial mental powers ever goes back to that system of belief once abandoned. It's like fundie Christianity- there's no going back, only a slow healing of the wounds and betrayal and intellectual gaps, and anger at the deception. People with diminishing mental powers and/or those with magical beliefs in the first place cannot be saved from falling for this cult/occultism and suffering its failure against reality. It promises them power and affirms their vanity...they have to learn from experience that the power promised is an illusion and that vanity/ego is invariable a false guide.

There's no helping them. The GOP is presently a very efficient machine designed to exploit these stupidities, and they have to free themselves of it. In a way it's kind neat to watch the process; it's like an orange juicer, leaving only sad husks of the idiots as their sense of triumph fades.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

26. The Repubs play the "peepul" & use propaganda and we don't.

The Dems either don't know how to or they refuse to use it. Most likely the former.

[DeepModem Mom]

29. I live in a red area of a blue city, and I just wanted to substantiate...

your experience. I've said many times in the last several days that these people blame Nagin, Nagin, Nagin, and Blanco, Blanco, Blanco. I told my husband that the next time we heard that shite we should ask the person their source of news. But, like you, I know exactly their sources. Depending on socio-economic status, it ranges from Rush to the Wall Street Journal. They think they are so damned smart, and some (especially those who read the WSJ every day) are smart. What they don't realize is that they are being duped, fooled, tricked, fed a line that they buy, without question. They think they are smart, and they are fools. I'm rehearsing the words to say to those I know who are smart enough to know better, that they are being played for fools, when they believe the spin, and outright lies, these people are putting out. They should be ashamed of themselves, should wake up and smell the effing bacon, and should start using their beautiful minds.

[FM Arouet666]

30. Amen....

And I live in a red area of a blue city in a red state. I wish we could all just go blue, what ever happened to "better off dead than red.? :evilgrin:

[elehhhhna]

33. You must understand: they are choosing WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

Their true thoughts and demotions were expressed when they saw the Feds lacsidasical approach, but they WANT to believe the Bush line of rosey BULLSHIT. They CHOOSE it.

Once Rush gave them a tidy explanation, they retreated into their "it's can't happen to me" coma.

[FM Arouet666]

34. Exactly what I was thinking. The sad thing is

it will take a catastrophe before they change. When this nation building experiment gets us into another war, a draft, and many more Americans dead. People will have to see the light.

[elehhhhna]

37. Sadly, it'll have to be a personal catastrophe ot they won't give a rip.

[FM Arouet666]

38. Perhaps a stock market crash. It's all about money and power n/t

[populistdriven]

35. I have two totally hardcore democrats - highly educated doctors

in my family. I hadn't talked to them for 12 days after Katrina and all they knew was Rove's propaganda. I clued them in on the phone.

My Sister was furious and I hope she learned her lesson.

I think it is impossible to train millions of Americans in how to resist the neocons propaganda.

But what other choice do we have?

:shrug:

Forums like DU need some kind of "killer application" that will get 1000x more people on here

[marions ghost]

53. it's a shame to me...

that there are so many rightwing or leaning right doctors. I mean you expect business people to be only about the bottom line, but not doctors since that used to be a highly-skilled service profession bordering on humanitarian. I sure wouldn't want any of them working on me. I'm going to ask their political affiliation before hand from now on.

"How to Resist The Neo-Con Propaganda" -- somebody needs to write a book.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. Don't lose the truth but get Smarter at Framing and at Politics of Power.

[Pepperbelly]

43. It is a puzzle that defies solution.

This is the end result of a 35 year campaign by the hard right to do exactly what you described. They started with their "think tanks", followed up with deep-pocketed supporters like Moon and either purchased or created major newspapers and television networks, they whined to high heaven about the "liberal bias" of the media (and of course, they still beat that dead horse regularly), and then they began consolidating conservative control of the mainstream media outlets.

Going after Clinton, in all candor, the New York Times and the Washington Post published more egregiously inaccurate stories than the Washington Times or the New York Post.

The single ray of hope that I see, unfortunately, the internets. And that is still a battle currently raging.

[FM Arouet666]

49. I absolutely agree.

The internet is the last avenue of information which needs to be controlled. Once they have that, the fourth Reich begins.

[never cry wolf]

44. Here's another link that may prompt a diatribe

From a recent speech by Bobby Kennedy, Jr.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0916-27.htm

snip-------

There is a right wing media and if you look where most Americans are now getting their news, that’s where they’re getting it. According to Pew 30 percent of Americans now say that their primary news source is talk radio which is 90 percent dominated by the right.

22 percent say their primary news source is Fox News, MSNBC or CNBC, all dominated by the right and another 10 percent, Sinclair Network which is the most right wing of all. That’s the largest television network in our country. It’s run by a former pornographer who requires all 75 of his affiliate television stations -- and this is where Mid-Westerners get their news, red state people get their news -- all of them have to take a pledge to not report critically about this president or about the war in Iraq.

Then the rest of us are -- the majority of Americans are still getting their news from electronic media and it’s the corporate owned media and they have no ideology except for filling their pocket books and many of them are run by big polluters. All of them are run by giant corporations that have all kinds of deals with the government and are not going to offend public officials.

This all started in 1988 when Ronald Reagan abolished the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine said that the airwaves belong to the public. They were public trust assets just like our air and water and that the broadcasters could be licensed to use them but only with the proviso that they use them to promote the public interest and to advance American democracy. They had to inform the public of issues of public import. They had to have the news hours. None of those networks wanted to show the news because it’s expensive, they lose money on it. They had to avoid corporate consolidation. They had to have local control and diversity of control. That was the requirement of the law since 1928.

Today as a result of the abolishment of that doctrine, six giant multi-national corporations now control all 14,000 radio stations in our country, almost all 6,000 TV stations and 80 percent of our newspapers, all of our billboards and now most of the Internet information services, so you have six guys who are dictating what Americans have as information and what we see as news.

snip--------

If you look at the PIPA Report and I’ve known this for many, many years because I do 40 speeches a year in red states Republican audiences and there is no difference. When people hear this message and what this White House is doing and the Gingrich Congress, there is no difference between the way Republicans react and the Democrats react except the Republicans come up afterwards and say, “Why haven’t we ever heard of this before? I say to them, “It’s because you’re watching Fox News and listening to Rush.”

And 80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on .

snip---------

[stanwyck]

45. You've succinctly exposed our biggest problem

fighting the spin. My experience mirrors yours. I really felt optimistic that people were waking up to how ruinous this administration is. Then the spin doctors got busy. And, unbelievably, it worked. The Republicans got their daily doses of rightwing lies and were, once again, blind to the truth.
It's frustrating. Even my brother, always a rational, thoughtful person, has become one of their zombies. He doesn't read anymore. He watches Fox. And knows about a fourth of what he should.
I'm trying to be positive about the future.
But, it's difficult.
The Bushies (and their adherents and successors) are a very smooth machine. They have enormous amounts of cash and a very complex corporate structure which supports their fascism.
We have to be resolved to cut through their propaganda.

[FM Arouet666]

47. Glad someone got my long winded diatribe

The spin is killing us, almost every media outlet pushes right wing nonsense. Sure there are a few liberal voices, but how many right wingers will bother to listen when they have countless conservative sources to reinforce their beliefs?

Mark my words, unless something happens which is beyond the GOP's spin machine to handle, 2006 and 2008 will be a disappointment for us. Progressives have to get the facts out, the GOP has the spin machine we need an effective fact machine. How? It will have to be more than a few senators speaking out and one or two liberal cable programs.

[stanwyck]

52. there is some good news

and that's where we are right now. The internet will help. It's where younger people go...they're not watching network news. Or even cable. Except for The Daily Show.
We're totally polarized now. We can all chose according to our beliefs. Some of us will venture out and read more accounts. Typically, liberals have a much wider range of reference. We're less fear based. We travel more. We're more educated.
The news is no longer the news. It's corporate owned propaganda. As other DUers have pointed out, Mark Twain was incredibly on the money decades ago: "It's not that the people don't know anything. It's that so much of what they know is wrong."
Tough for us to combat. But we've got thousands of committed people working to get the facts out there.
Your question, and mine, is...who will be paying attention?

[lonestarnot]

46. Nope you may be correct in your immediate area.... but he's

slipped even lower... 35% I saw today... People are seeing him for what he is a looooooooooser.

[populistdriven]

50. Ok so he is losing people, but we need to draw them in to the Internet and

forums like DU need some kind of "killer application" an irresistable reason to get real news.

[FM Arouet666]

51. Until his next "great" accomplishment spins the numbers up

Wait, North Korea just said they would cooperate. What a great time for that to happen...

However, I just read that they are demanding a reactor, guess Bushy will have to find something else to get the GOP spinsters to re-initiate his brain dead followers.

I hope I am wrong, I am rooting for a rating of 0% by Christmas.