Seize the moment, Create the future, Catapult the propaganda

[omega minimo]

(There have been recent threads on positive vs. negative, optimist vs. pessimist. After a lively exchange MuseRider :hi: invited me to post this as an OP.
With apologies ahead of time to zombies, Eeyores and petulant, cross-eyed CJSCOTUS nominees).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2096654&mesg_id=2097116

WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS FOR HOW TO HARNESS THE ENERGY OF THE MOMENT AND CREATE A FUTURE WE WANT TO LIVE IN?

Some Recent Ideas:

Post-Katrina, organize and send a strong, unified message to Congress that they WILL represent us and WILL demand accountability for NOLA disaster from this misadministration (i.e we TELL them, not ASK)

Post-Katrina, bear witness to the human suffering and not shift QUITE so fast back to all the pontificating and theorizing. We lost the moment. Or did we?

Encourage each other to recognize simple ways to empower ourselves and those around us (as noted above). Encourage each other to not assume it's "all or nothing" and "black or white" which sometimes seems to bog down DUers.

Encourage each other to respect our own abilities, awareness and assessments-- not assume there is something we don't get (that is THE game of politics-- it's a bluff). Informed questions work wonders.


Diamante Love (walldude image)

Encourage each other to recognize that heroes like Cindy Sheehan and Diamante Love are us-- and not immediately put them on a pedestal and nominate them for public office.

Connect the dots. Connect the dots. Connects the dots.

Be honest about the fact that everyone, including Congress, is afraid of Bushco. Be honest about the fact that Bushco. is afraid of the American people standing up to the game. You saw Bush in his Disney speech Thursday? THEY KNOW THE MASK IS OFF.

That's why "Post-Katrina, bear witness to the human suffering and not shift QUITE so fast back to all the pontificating and theorizing. We lost the moment."

When get all enwrapped and enraptured with the rationalizations and the cobwebs of Bushco's industrial strength bullshit, we dilute the passion and purity of truth. It's exhausting. No one can keep up with the doublethink. So.....

All of the Above plus:

Give ourselves a break. Do the best we can. Encourage each other.

[rocktivity]

1. Ask EVERYONE, Repub and Dem alike to tell their congressional reps:

"VOTE FOR IMPEACHMENT OR I DON'T VOTE FOR YOU."

Even the Repubs could find some eager up-and-comers who wouldn't mind trying to knock off an incumbent!

I'd love to see a ton of IMPEACH bumperstickers in DC on September 24, too!

:headbang:
rocknation

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Been asking for Impeachment since oh

2002 and have concluded we are dearming, the system is broken, we are way past demostnrations, we are way past screaming, we are way past...

[MuseRider]

4. We are the system.

It has been taken from us and if we really want it back we can't stop. It is tough though, I totally understand.

[omega minimo]

9. I just read a post "...for when martial law is declared..."

and that IMHO is bullshit, the sort of complacency/complicity my WOTWall question was about----

yes we see the implications and the dangers
and NO we don't just lay down in front of the :wtf: steamroller!

Self-indulgent?

In fact, the answer to the question really is:

Benefitting from the American system and saying we believe in the American system but SOMEBODY ELSE makes the American system work FOR US is not democracy, it's hypocrisy.

As long as we ARE paying attention and we DO have civil rights and we CAN petition our representatives (or even TELL them what we DEMAND that they do on our behalf) and as long as there is a chance for unexpected change (Katrina) and even miracles,

Let us NOT create self-fulfilling prophecies of dark futures we don't want to see, as if they are inevitable. Are we VICTIMS or participants?

:rant:

[MuseRider]

19. Personally

unless Bush** calls home all the military I don't see martial law working here. I suppose that reflects my situation, I am not in a city and have many places I can go and friends who are ready in case. We will make a fine group and will be ready, willing and able to take care of ourselves.

Ultimately I do not think everyone ready to give up is self indulgent but some of it is, of course. I just spent the good part of a day indulging myself in just that. My husband has been doing that for 3 years now. I think those that are giving up are maybe not doing it for that reason but they have no clear indication that there is anything left to fight for or how to go about it. After all, all you have to do on a daily basis is look at the news and it tells you that our king is strong and doing the right thing. After a while it wears down people. As I said before, I have been in this position personally and know how to deal with assholes who wear you down but my husband has never been in that position and I see our reactions in those terms. Nobody has ever abused him or held him back so he just does not have those resources. I know that I do not like the victim position and will do whatever it takes to avoid that ever again.

Small things work as well as the big things. I am a source of amusement at the local feed store where I am certain the "guys" are all Republicans. I go in with my attitude, we do talk politics, and my bumper stickers. They used to make fun of me but they no longer do that. Slowly we are beginning to agree on things. I do know that if something bad were to ever come to them they would be out fighting in a second. Now, if I can just nudge them a little further....I keep trying.

I guess it is time to go write to my senators who do not care or will not listen but this time I will see how they react to a demand. Should be an interesting project!

[electron_blue]

57. you're right! He's got too many troops oversees! love it.

besides, why does he need martial law when they can take any election they want and buy everything else?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. We are the governemnt

we the people, and as long as we keep acting as if this still works, they will continue to do what they are doing... it is well past time to take to the streets, it is well beyond time to consider what our founding fathers did... and Jefferson has wise words on this.

[electron_blue]

58. I read an article about Bush last year where he was so bummed

that we the American people actually got to vote. He wished he didn't have to worry about actually getting our votes. Nowadays, I believe they rigged the election, but suppose I'm wrong. It is pretty telling that even Bush acknowledged that the people still have so much power. You're right - we need to start insisting they do what we want.

[omega minimo]

5. Do you think the shock of the brutality of Bush's non-response in NOLA

will force a tectonic shift in the process, in public perception-- and in the Congress?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. It will force a shift, the problem is I think we are well beyond of

acting within the political system, and I don't know what it will take... I have asked in the past what ar people willing to sacrifice? I fear at this point... not much... we are well beyond the demonstration stage, we are well beyond the national strike stage... our founding fathers were marching on Lexington and Concord well, and I mean well, before we got where we are.

[omega minimo]

13. Did you see the DSM hearings DVD?

There was Joe Wilson, Cindy Sheehan, Ray McGovern, testifying before Senator Conyers' committee.

Mr. Wilson and Mr. McGovern both eloquently played by the rules of the system, appealing through the steps of the channels, in legislative lingo and manner-- when all there and all watching knew well that we were WAY beyond that point. They did it anyway.

I hear you, tho I don't know you :hi: or what leads you to......:evilfrown:

There is a lot of work going on in Congress on our behalf that we don't hear much about; people Doing The Right Thing.

Perhaps it seems naive to consider TELLING Congress what we want them to do. IMHO the abandonment of Katrina victims was OUTRAGEOUS enough to demand just such a bodacious response from a riled public.

I'm always in favor of calling the bluff of TPTB and to PRETEND that the system actually works.

Maybe that's the only way it ever has.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yes I saw it

and during the first 48 hours of Katrina I almost went horse telling them how to get the people some help... this is why I say now we are well beyond that point, It dawned on me over the last 48 hours... yes they did much, but the Neo Cons are still gonna run their experiments in NOLA because they can.

Yes our people are busting their chops, and working hard, they also buy into this ... lets work within the system... I don't know... we got some help down there, we did what we could, we went around, but still... when all is said and done those bastards are using this disaster to push their ideology, sick ideology forwards... yes 200 B they need that money but where is it gonna come from? Oh yes cuts, from where? You can use this list for they will use it. All social programs the cons don't like. They have Executive ordered Mavins Bacon off the books. things like that. They are destroying the country but joe six pack seems to be busy watching survivor, maybe he won't be voted off the Asylum.

Me vote me off please... I don't think we can effect much anymore... not the way we are doing it.

We need new creative ways... and what we are doing is not working.

[marions ghost]

11. I'm hopeful

public perception has already changed--it remains to be seen if Congress will respond.

We have not 'lost the moment' I believe. We only need to continue to bear witness re. Katrina.

[omega minimo]

14. Is that effort organized on DU or can it be?

"We only need to continue to bear witness re. Katrina"

[marions ghost]

16. Could be...

Some have suggested a Katrina forum--I'd be in favor of that. I believe Katrina recovery will be years, both in the physical sense and the mental sense. Both for those who experienced it and those who vicariously experienced it. There are so many ramifications.
It's longterm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. it is not a sugestion

it is a reality

In a disaster this size, the early critical period lasts six months, then chronic recovery lasts 10 to 20 years

[marions ghost]

29. right

I agree. My suggestion is that we start a Katrina forum here in acceptance of the fact that this is a long-term recovery.

[omega minimo]

22. I don't get why there wasn't enough outrage for a true

"Tidal Wave Of Compassion" that kicked Bushco's ass right back to the hell they came out of.

[marions ghost]

31. I think there is outrage....

but right now it is more the seething kind than the active kind. You have to allow for the state of shock and depression that follows something like this. It's so huge. And the first 'tidal wave of compassion' has to go to the victims. There is plenty of time for the second tsunami to develop. Right now, so many are at sea themselves, too blown away to kick anybody's ass. Give it time. It's easy to see non-action as forgetting, but it masks a growing sense of crisis. Only the most callous among us could NOT have been affected by what we saw, and the ramifications of Katrina will reach far and wide. Katrina blew the cover off. We who want to see the evildoers get what they deserve have a good tailwind now.

[omega minimo]

34. I do not share this view although we can only hope that

"There is plenty of time for the second tsunami to develop."

IMHO the people trapped, abandoned and homicided in New Orleans were dealing with an immediacy beyond comprehension. We owe them an immediate response-- a witness to their misery and the horror perpetrated on them-- and a call for ACCOUNTABILITY from those who perpetrated it, sooner rather than later.

The Federal Government was in charge.
The Dept. of Homeland Security is supposedly effective.
The President, who said the results were "unacceptable" is in charge of both.
If the American people do not call for immediate independent investigation (and I don't mean sit and wait for it to happen magically, assuming those in Congress are taking care of it), the moment is lost.
They need to HEAR FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE our shock, horror and outrage and DEMAND FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

"When get all enwrapped and enraptured with the rationalizations and the cobwebs of Bushco's industrial strength bullshit, we dilute the passion and purity of truth." (from my OP)

This reminds me of the lackadaisical American response to our second hijacked election. We did not sieze the moment. People barely responded-- everyone was ready to "move on." :wtf: AS IF THERE WAS A NEXT TIME.

May I borrow your phrasing to make a point? I don't presume to know what you think about all this and am not trying to direct my :rant: AT you.....

"Give it time. It's easy to see non-action as forgetting, but it masks a growing sense of crisis. Only the most callous among us could NOT have been affected by what we saw, and the ramifications of (the 2004 Presidential election) will reach far and wide. (The 2004 election) blew the cover off. We who want to see the evildoers get what they deserve have a good tailwind now."

We waited for the Mis-election tailwind to pick us up, fill our sails, deliver us from Black Box Voting.....meanwhile, the nation sat still like good little robots for the second installment of an illegitimate administration, one that considers itself ABOVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ABOVE THE LAW.

Those are the people in charge of what happened in New Orleans. While we "give it time" they are laughing all the way to the World Bank-- "Jesus, can't these people take a hint?"

[marions ghost]

43. I think you misunderstand OM...

Believe me, I'm not saying to "move on' re. Katrina--OMG FAR FROM IT--I'm just saying that there could be a delayed reaction from the public when people have been through such a shocking experience. Thousands, maybe millions of people in this country WILL experience some degree of PTSD from this (I tend to look at things from a psychological perspective) They are processing it I think. The stories are still coming out. It may take time to comprehend to accept. This disaster is profound on so many levels.

-----------------
It's interesting you should pick to compare the two areas I have done (and plan to do) the most activist work on--the election stuff and Katrina. However I don't think you can really compare the public response to the election of 2004 to Katrina response. Reasons for saying that:

There was NEVER any media coverage of the issues about the election or its aftermath. From Day 1, it was 'move along, nothing to see here.' Even the exit polls were suppressed. A complete media blackout on the subject followed for months and a few blogs and articles on the internet was IT. On the other hand Katrina was covered to the hilt while it was going on, and the aftermath is being written, blogged and televised. So you have a MUCH larger percentage of the population who actually 'experienced' Katrina as a mind-blowing event, and saw the criminal negligence and betrayal by the govt. Americans by the millions SAW it, they GOT it. I stand by my statement that only the most callous or twisted would NOT get it. Of course there will be spin, and we must fight that.

But remember that after the election, the MAJORITY of people believed the election was legitimate and there was NO problem (though I'm sure some had suspicions but were in denial). And the spin was vicious--you can't do much organizing when people think you're a conspiracy theorist. It is only through the dogged work of hundreds of people around this country that the truth is finally getting out about the 'election' of 2004 (I'm looking forward to reading the book by Mark C. Miller--"None Dare Call it Stolen"--out soon). BTW I wasn't "waiting for any tailwind" re. the elections--I knew we had to get to work on that starting Nov 3 and I did my part on that effort for many months & am still on it.

I don't think we're dealing with NEARLY so tough a problem of keeping a focus on Katrina as we did with the almost invisible election issues. Katrina affected millions of people very directly and they want answers. Meanwhile thousands of survivors are telling their stories...like a leaking levee, the truth cannot be suppressed no matter how hard the govt may try. Of course we need to be writing congress, LTTES, email lists, talking--espressing shock and outrage --as you say, demanding an investigation. I think the momentum is building for that, despite initial setbacks. Believe me I'm not 'enraptured' with anybody's BS and I'm capable of shining a light on the truth about this for a LONG LONG time.

I think we are going to need a Katrina forum like the Elections Forum here at DU so we can organize around it. We can then bring action items and suggestions and news back to GD. If you are interested, I will certainly support that (I think it takes 10 people to start a forum. Would u be interested in getting together a short list of goals, as DU requires? Or if you have better ideas, well keep posting, because I will be looking to do some work on Katrina Accountability and I'm sure others here will too. I hope some of the protestors in DC next week will be actively networking there and protesting the Katrina aftermath as a Crime Against Humanity along with the war.

best, MG

[omega minimo]

49. This is really interesting

The media blackout after the election was nearly total-- and the viciousness you mentioned towards any who questioned was perpetrated on editorial pages and in the articles... "nothing to see here" indeed.

So-- another case of Americans being told to think what they think everyone else thinks because they're told they think that. :wtf: Oh well.

The consolidated megamedia "enwraps and enraptures" all of us in its sticky web.

So, when that horror unfolded on the screens before us, the reason I am so stubbornly (even though we know time will reveal the true numbers enlightened by Katrina) adamant about an immediate and visceral response is:

--There is no way that ACTIVE INACTION on the part of government rescuers is justified

--There is no way that white people would have been subjected to that treatment

--The fact that those faces were mostly black HAS DIMINISHED THE IMPACT on the American psyche (with or without overt racism)

--The further away we get from The Moment, the more the reality of what we saw is abstracted and "justified" by official explanation and catapult load

Our own psyches provided the media blackout this time-- preconditioned to not see African Americans as fully human.

For shame :cry: This is what we must bear witness to


And I know you are right. Time will tell. People are busy surviving and helping the survivors.

Is it unrealistic to HOPE that there would be an immediate outraged cry from Americans demanding accountability-- before this hijacked White House can do any more damage?

Bushco. is using the failure of their federalization and militarization and consolidation of government agencies to federalize, militarize and consolidate government further.

Maybe we need more impatient, unreasonable, idealism, after all.

Meanwhile, let's continue the dialogue about how to focus these concerns on DU.

:hug:

[marions ghost]

75. it might be unrealistic...

to hope that there would be an immediate outraged cry from Americans demanding accountability..." It might be unrealistic in the current climate. To expect to see that happen immediately anyway. I think you will see a sustained objection in the few public outlets we have left.

After Katrina especially, I can hear 'the silent scream' of George Bush's America quite well. It is the scream of people who are so horrified, frustrated, intimidated and controlled with no reasonable outlet for expression because they think nobody is listening. The People are not happy. Depression and denial is their preferred adaptation it seems..

Rather than my getting into a soliloquy about the reasons why what I'm saying MIGHT be true (Newswolf has already touched on the background of our rise to near-fascism) -- we could discuss it further as a group.

I agree strongly with what you have said here about the TRUTH of what happened in Katrina--agree with all your points strongly except that "the fact that those faces were mostly black has diminished the impact on the American psyche..." I do not believe that the whole 'American psyche' has reacted that way. The elements in our society who do not perceive African Americans as fully human are there in significant numbers, but they do NOT represent Americans who care about Katrina victims--we who care are the much greater numbers.
:hug:
PS--so do you think we need a Katrina forum to work on issues in depth, while also posting on Katrina in GD as well of course? It seemed to work well for the elections forum.

[marions ghost]

72. Correction

The book about the election of 2004 mentioned in marions ghost post above is actually titled,

"Fooled Again"--How the Right Stole the 2004 Election" by Mark Crispin Miller

('None Dare Call It Stolen' is the name of the associated article, which appeared in Harpers)

------------------
"Fooled Again" is at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465045790/qid=1121112021/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-8113061-7269627?v=glance&s=books

[LeahD]

78. Just checked out Amazon, and book hasn't been released yet. n/t

[marions ghost]

81. Right --any day now

I saw a release date of Sept 7, but looks as though it's a little delayed...
thanx

[stillcool]

7. hey....

i logged in just to reply to your post that got blocked. I haven't been allowing myself to log in lately because i'm scared of my own rage. So much illuminated ignorant arrogance is hard to move beyond. But just for you...The world will go on in whatever form...life will go on...have hope..in humanity..and find yourself some joy...create...but most of all be really, really kind to yourself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Well that was one kind of doing this

why are people so afraid of that option I don't know, but it is an option

I keep repeating, in the course of human affairs, we are at a similar moment

[MuseRider]

3. YAY!

Thanks. As I told you before your posts really started me back on track. I was down in the dumps, certain we had lost everything, lost my almost constant optimisic streak. You made me think with the questions and I am back, refreshed and ready to go. I really can't thank you enough. DU always does it, this time it was you. I hope your thoughts help others who might be feeling that way because at this point we really need to get on it.

[omega minimo]

6. I appreciate your insight and honesty about the writing on the wall

I just needed one good answer.

Now we move on.

:bounce:

[mntleo2]

17. Re-Define "Work"

I spoke of this on another thread, and someone suggested it BE a thread of its own....What I mean about redefining work is we no longer allow "work" to be defined as only being a corporate paid job. Right now corporate pay is the only thing respected as contributing to community. It is the attitude that corporations are the *only* "persons" that are advancing society...it considers people power as "doing nothing." Taking 5 week vacations, giving yourself golden parachutes while your workers starve, and duping people out of their retirement however, is "doing something..."

This is all about funding, people.

The 1996 Welfare Reform (called "The Personal Responsibility Act") says the ONLY way you contribute to society is to work a corporate paid job. It says that it is "better" to work a minimum wage job rather than being a parent, caretaker of neighbors and/or extended family, doing any other unpaid work, otherwise you are not being "personally responsible". It says it is "better" for children to be taken care of by someone else rather than by their own parents. It says those tasks are "doing nothing" until it is time to send them to war or work for the rest of their lives in some McJob, of course....

If you think these definitions of work only apply to the poor, just look at what is now being funded with your tax dollars. Not much of it is "trickling down" from the rich. The poor were just a canary in the mine, it is now extending to the rest of you...

The way to plant the seeds now is to *never* allow anyone to say unpaid work is not work. It will begin to spread because even neocons will have to admit it is true, since they are always asking for everyone but themselves to work for free. The more of us doing this the faster it will spread. Soon we will be able to argue that funding of these things are worthwhile because they contribute.

My definition of work is anything that contributes to a family, a community, or another person because it is needed. Help change the un-conscience acceptance that one only "works" when they get paid, this is not always true. Inheritance is *not* work, overcompensation is not work, sitting on your ass and collecting investment money is *not* work. Motherwork/fatherwork IS work, volunteering IS work, helping one another IS work...

Take it from there folks, you probably have better definitions of what is work and what isn't....


Cat In Seattle <---who was warning of this since that PR Act's inception while even most liberals were wildly applauding, the fools!

[MuseRider]

20. I hated that act,

HATED it.

I worked until my second child was born and I was in the fortunate position to be able financially to stay home. I agree. It was important work and hard work. I agree with you on those issues.

I can't do a better job of defining it but I do agree with you, every one of those things is every bit as important to a good strong society as people who work corporate jobs.

[mntleo2]

35. You Are Still Working!

Aha! Gotcha! :7

Never ever even imply that now you do not work, because whether paid or not, you are a hard working and important contributer to your community! This is what I am talking about. Whenever anyone asks you what you do, try saying proudly that you are a business partner with your spouse ~ and to elicit support, help your spouse see you ARE as his business partner. You are a business partner you know, as you oversee the budget, you secretary, you assist with his/her burden by taking care of things they cannot such overseeing the home and children, you are in food distribution, environmental supervision, medical and mental worker, and generally taking care of everyone's needs so they can go out there and "achieve".

Either job, breadwinner or homemaking, is an exhausting endeavor. Both together is done, but it kills you inside and outside. Take it from someone who did ALL of it and I will tell you I could have gotten ahead if I had had a good "wife". But I was exhausted all the time trying to be breadwinner AND homemaker. I spent years in jobs never getting anywhere, because, I was lucky to put on the "work face" and achieve what was expected of me, moving ahead was just too exhausting to consider working toward. Fraternizing with the suits after work in order to "network"? Are you kidding, I had to pick everyone up and get them home and fed. Try walking a croupy baby all night, arising at 6 in the morning to greet your other kids, and then looking "perky" at work. Not an easy thing! Thus I never did any of it very well except with my employment. I did learn to put on the perky face and that was about all, lol. But I was (and am) a wreck when I got home. If you have to, SHOW YOUR SPOUSE THIS POST AND TELL HIM THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK HE SHOULD GET DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND WORSHIP YOU FOR ALL YOU DO!!!!!!

Also, I suspect that what I listed is not all you do, as you are in your community doing things as well such as assisting your friends and neighbors with things like childcare, working in the schools, and other things, which makes you a community organizer. I could go on, but you get the drift...

Cat In Seattle <---saluting you with awe :loveya:

[MuseRider]

36. Boy did I word that poorly!

You got me there!

Thanks. My kids are now away in college, my husband retired and I am doing a lot of things now that I want to do BUT a lot of those things are working in the community. I am amazed, having not been involved like that so much before, how many people spend so many hours in public service without acknowledgment or pay. They are the people who truly love their fellow man and work tirelessly to provide a better life for all of us. I am a small part of a small part of it and I can say, other than my time spent mothering my children, I have never felt so frustrated or fulfilled.

I am always in awe of people who raise children and keep a full time job. I simply cannot imagine how hard that is. Single parents as well. I am lucky because I know I certainly would have done it and lived through it but I would not have been very good at it. I stand in awe of you.

That single act did more to harm the community than a bunch of some of the other anti family acts put together. I never understood how anyone could not see it that way and I shake my head to this day trying to figure it out. I am glad you brought this up. We must one day, when we have the power, work to get our representatives to change that.

[mntleo2]

37. Keep Telling Younger People What You Wrote

Your "faux pas" is a common mistake because well, the world has always said all you have achieved is "not working". All because someone did not come to you with a paycheck of your own. This is bunk! You did work, you did raise some awesome kids, and you did contribute to the betterment of this country ~ far more than some McJob would have done. Someone said once that they had never heard anyone's deathbed confession as, "I should have worked longer at the factory..."

I work with low income women all the time and it is all they can do to muster a smile when I tell them how in awe I am of what they are doing. They do not believe me. They are also trained to think their parenting and everything they do for their communities and families is "doing nothing" while a paid job is supposed to be their main achievement. As a matter of fact a lot of people think what I wrote about being a spouse's business partner would be "streching" when it is the damn truth! And the more of us that insist unpaid work IS work, the sooner it will get into the nation's psyche enough to elicit funding to assist it.

Cat In Seattle <---who is still in awe that you made it!

[omega minimo]

21. Does "The Personal Responsibility Act" apply to POTUS?

:evilgrin:

[mntleo2]

26. Never!

Oh. Oh. Thank-you for getting what flew over most people's head, when they were debating this act. Here were these pasty-faced swine-in-high-heels, prancing around on the senate floor, slopping at the trough every chance they could get. They were "outraged" and waving their fists, just outraged I tell ya, about the mythical welfare queen (that Reagan admitted he made up). All this theater while ignoring not only the budget and the statistics, but pretending the real corporate welfare queens lining their pockets right and left, didn't exist.

And it still goes on...

What kind of American ARE you to expect the people making these laws actually think they apply to themselves or snotty little yellow frat boys who never grew up? You don't expect everyone else but the elite to live up to a bunch impossible expectations, do you? What the hell is WRONG with you?

Red Queen with Bab's face: " What??? He expects ME to WORK ~ and for minimum wage too??? He expects me to buy enough for the whole family on this pennance? How can I live without my Kennebunkport home??? Off with his 'ead! Off with his 'ead!"

Cat In Seattle

[newswolf56]

23. One of the most profound statements ever articulated about capitalism:

"The poor were just a canary in the mine, it is now extending to the rest of (us)..." Especially in America.

[omega minimo]

24. One of the signs most blatant ever catapulted about Orwellianism

The headlines on the same day:

Passage of the Welfare Bill: "The End of Welfare As We Know It"

and

The Dedication of a National Memorial to Franklin Delano Roosevelt

:crazy:

[newswolf56]

25. I believe New Orleans further radicalized those of us who are...

already awake, showing us the real horror toward which Bush's policies are leading (and thereby confirming our darkest suspicions). But it will take a great deal of real work ("work" used here in its oldest and best sense as that which benefits the whole) to turn the atrocity we witnessed into a teachable moment for the 80 percent of white America that, according to the polls, refuses to believe what happened in New Orleans was racism -- or anything worse than dire coincidence.

Furthermore mass media, the Republican political establishment (and even some Democratic politicians: note Howard Dean's defense of Bush as "not...racist") are moving concertedly to close the window New Orleans provides on the vicious underbelly of American capitalism. This deliberate closure is because once there is public acknowledgment of the reality of class warfare and racism (and often both in tandem), the ultimate falsehood of the so-called "American dream" is revealed in all its ugliness: something the oligarchy fears almost more than anything else in the world.

The reason for this fear is the last time such widespread public acknowledgment took place -- in the aftermath of the Crash of '29 -- there was a genuine revolution: the New Deal, which recognized both the reality of class struggle and -- derived from class struggle -- the ultimate imperative of just government: protecting us all -- "we the people" -- from the savage greed and limitless tyranny of the plutocrats.

As to where such notions came from, it is no coincidence that in those days the third largest political party in the U.S. was the Communist Party, and that it was by far the best organized political group in U.S. history -- so much so that when World War Two broke out a dozen years later, the federal government was almost entirely dependent on the Communist Party apparatus for wartime mobilization of the civilian population. The plutocrats in their boardrooms were literally trembling in terror: not only was the United States turning Red -- Red in the most original and very best sense (yet without violent revolution) -- there was also the absolutely peerless Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Red Army to back the transformation. And then when the war broke out, two of the three fascist regimes that had seemed to be Tyrannosauric capitalism's last hope went down to defeat.

But as if America were some horrid economic Jurassic Park, the Tyrannosaur rose from the ashes of defeat. That is what the McCarthy Era was about -- much subsequent history too -- and ultimately why George Bush was given the presidency: the final restoration of capitalism to all its pre-Russian Revolution, pre-New Deal savagery, the ultimate resurgence of the death-dealing greed that was terrified into remission by the Red Army in Russia and militant angry voters in the U.S. -- the greed that now once again threatens to reduce every American who is not part of the oligarchy to precisely the abandonment typified by New Orleans.

That -- the truth of New Orleans -- is what we have to somehow find the word-seeds to plant in the minds of the rest of America.

As to how we do it, I think we need not only another FDR, but also another La Passionaria -- an American reincarnation of the woman, a truly firebrand orator, who so often rallied the forces of the Spanish Republic in their long-ago (and tragically betrayed) fight against fascism. As to what we might do ourselves, I would add to Omega Minimo's suggestions only two points: maximize the potential of the Internet to bypass the interference of the corporate media (and thus spread truth not lies or disinformation), and avoid organizational hierarchies -- instead form affinity groups of people who have known one another for a long while. The latter is the one sure defense against the infiltrators and agents provocateur who will invariably seek to neutralize our burgeoning movement, just as they nearly did to the Civil Rights Movement, and succeeded in doing to the Counterculture that gave birth to the anti-Vietnam War, Feminist and Environmentalist movements.

[omega minimo]

27. The polls are bogus and being used to foster bogusness

"That -- the truth of New Orleans -- is what we have to somehow find the word-seeds to plant in the minds of the rest of America."

The truth was there before our eyes.

Our local paper printed a story last week quoting a poll of (only) 1,000 people and proceeded to claim "whites think this" and "blacks think that." Maybe the same fast food news was spread all over the country. What a crock.

The paper was loaded with accompanying stories that all painted one big distortion of New Orleans and Katrina. Including an editorial page piece promoting the federalization and militarization of the local/state agencies. The press is aiding and abetting the disassemblement of the nation. In other words, doing their job. (Guess it's another history lesson, NW56, to discuss what the role of the press usedta be, hmmm?)

The word-image-seeds are planted. Drowning in fertilizer.

[newswolf56]

30. The phrase "dismumblement of the nation" somehow came to me...

from out of your response, as in "the media is responsible for the dismumblement of the truth of New Orleans" -- dissemination and mumbling combined, as if the resultant incoherence will conceal what the oligarchy wants hidden: not just New Orleans but the further imposition of "bogusness" to counter the dawning real-ization.

You are more optimistic than I about the (alleged) 80 percent: yeah, that's the poll I was talking about (major media -- don't now remember which outlet, claimed 68 percent of blacks but only 20 percent of whites see the abandonment of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast as genocidally racist and/or deliberate class warfare.)

My late father -- in his youth a genuine Leftist in the most hard-core sense possible (and a quiet believer in such principles all the rest of his life) -- was convinced that via the Civil Rights Movement, blacks would force America to fulfill the potential of its Constitutional principles, not just politically but economically. I had precisely the same conviction about the feminist renaissance that was originally called Women's Liberation. I have since concluded both of us were wrong -- but maybe I was too hasty: the verdict of history might not be in yet.

Thus I deeply hope you're right about a great awakening: to win this one, we need all the help we can get.

But I also think there's a lot of real fear out there: people who fretfully say to themselves, "If I acknowledge racism (or class warfare), then I'll have to go where I don't want to go..." Not just the trinket-materialist's fear of losing possessions, but the oppressed person's terror of the new gestapo.

Which is yet another dimension of the infinite truth in Franklin Delano Roosevelt's great statement: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

[marions ghost]

32. a lot are feeling overwhelmed, depressed,downtrodden

in denial. What can get them past this fear?

[newswolf56]

42. What enabled blacks in the South to transcend fear...

during the Civil Rights Movement was focused anger: note in this context the "we are not afraid" verse in "We Shall Overcome." In a somewhat less dramatic way, the same was true of the anti-Vietnam War Movement: until the Kent State Massacre (May 4, 1970), there was no sense the government would kill you for protesting the Vietnam War.

But there is an important, even pivotal difference between the constituencies of these movements and the people we are trying to mobilize today. Southern blacks of that era were abysmally poor; they had virtually no material stake in the status quo. The same was true of the students who mobilized against the war; while they were nowhere nearly as impoverished as Southern blacks, they nevertheless had few possessions to lose -- and they were further insulated from loss or potential loss by the fact so many were being supported by their parents' bourgeois wealth (the underlying reason anti-war radicalism embodied so many reactionary characteristics such as vicious conformity and malevolent hostility toward the blue-collar classes). But apart from the enlightened 20 percent, the people we are trying to mobilize now into a united front against Bush and what he represents -- runaway fascism and the re-emergence of the most Tyrannosauric forms of capitalism -- believe all their possessions and indeed their very material well-being is at stake: not only that their well-being is subject to cancellation if they protest, but that life without those possessions would be too horrible to contemplate.

I have several times denounced the "trinket materialism" of consumerist America. One of its core aspects is the reflexive assumption that possessions and selfhood are inseparable. Most of us who are genuine Leftists don't understand this (and the huge obstacle to radical action it presents) merely because -- thanks to the oligarchy's implacable hostility toward us specifically because of our politics -- we have never been allowed to graze in the materialistic pastures of plenty that (formerly) characterized the American dream. But other members of my family -- professionals and upper-level executives who are nevertheless conformist drones and who live their lives accordingly -- have so grazed (and grazed often), and the difference between them and me is profoundly telling: the great screaming jones of their selfishness demands they shop constantly and compulsively, always on the lookout for "bargains" whether they need them or not; they will become as distraught over a scratch on the finish of an automobile as I would be over the death of a friend; and to avoid any insights that might bring their feverish materialism into question, they will go to any length to keep their relationships uniformly shallow: they choose their pets and acquaintances precisely as they choose the rest of their possessions -- to be as maintenance-free as possible.

Americans are carefully indoctrinated from birth in these values and the core selfishness that fuels them -- never mind this selfishness is symptomatic of a national spiritual deficit that is without human precedent -- and it seems to me very little can shake the victims of such indoctrination out of their customary zomboid state. New Orleans won't do it because another big part of trinket materialism is a chronic and total inability to empathize: hence the 80 percent that refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence of negligent genocide and racism. Most of the 80 percent are literally indifferent; the cries of the victims fall on deaf (uncaring) ears. Worse, such conditioning (and the mindset it is designed to produce) has become the very quintessence of America and Americanism. Hence the very large limits on my very small hopefulness.

The "spiritual deficit" I mentioned above has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity (or any other creed of Yehveh and his patriarchy). It has instead to do with how we each stand in relation to the earth and the cosmos ("Our Mother," as allegedly "primitive" peoples call her) and thus ultimately how we stand in relation to those who -- regardless of color or even species -- are our sisters and brothers. Having successfully lived without electricity and even without plumbing or running water, having spent an entire summer with no more possessions than I could fit into a backpack, having passed entire seasons so far removed from human company my only companions were dogs, I have learned three facts most Americans don't understand: (1)-that our material wealth is not only wholly unnecessary; (2)-that it is an ever-more-impenetrable barrier that keeps us from hearing anything sung or spoken in the Mother Tongue; and (3)-the inducement of such deafness is precisely why trinket materialism is vital to the perpetuation of America: savagely capitalist, malevolently fascist, theocratically religious, tyrannically patriarchal.

Yet some of us manage to escape the zomboid conditioning.

In my case it was a fortuitous combination of a radical parent and an early (probably genetic) ability not only to feel the anguish of other people and animals but a strong compulsion to do what I could to right the relevant wrongs. Resoundingly discouraged by corporate public education, further belittled by the hypocrisies of my own family life, the social-activist impulse nevertheless survived -- a fragile plant that sprouted in the self-chosen bohemian soil of my later youth and finally began to bloom in the Civil Rights Movement and the alternative press. Indeed it was the main reason I picked journalism as my life's work. But even then, my commitment to social justice did not really become the centerpiece of my life until additional bitter experience provided the motivating awareness and semi-retirement the requisite time: quite simply, poverty (ironically) forbade it -- invariably forcing me back to work in the corporate press, typically at ever-lower levels (and therefore for ever-more-reduced paychecks). If I with all my imperatives to activism was so crippled, what about all those others who have neither the prerequisite knowledge nor the emotional inclination?

Nevertheless I have seen others transformed from passive bystanders (and even apparent conformists) into fierce activists, though the mechanism of transformation is typically some trauma. A woman debating whether to give herself to her own Muse and become a painter or comply with her bourgeois parents' ever-more-strident demands that she become a husband-hunting schoolteacher nearly dies in a traffic accident and, upon recovery, rejects her parents' mandates, is disinherited in retaliation, and now on her own begins putting herself through art school and acquiring recognition as a major talent (a true story). A journalist, accidentally arrested in a massive roundup of civil rights workers and their colleagues, is forced to decide which side he is on -- and thus his life is radically changed forever: spiritually and emotionally very much for the better, economically very much for the worse (another true story). A mother loses a son or daughter in Iraq or Vietnam. A nation sees an entire city destroyed by criminal indifference. So it goes. Often whether one can afford to make a proper response is merely a matter of circumstance: luck, fate, karma. Contrary to the singularly American myth, we are not the masters of our own lives. Not now, not ever.

Thus I believe the people who were roused by New Orleans were mostly already awake. But these people can nag their neighbors into wakefulness, and -- little by slow -- a mass movement can emerge. What we have to do to facilitate that emergence is show how New Orleans and Iraq are merely separate battles in the same war in which Bush is the top general: the oligarchy's concentration of wealth and its concurrent reduction of all the rest of us to maximum disempowerment, maximum poverty, maximum fear. In short, the vital usefulness of the historical truth of class struggle: Marx not as a destination but as the first step on a journey that has never ended.

The New Deal showed us how the truth of class struggle can be applied in the context of a democratic republic and the constitutional principles upon which it is founded: government to protect us all -- we the people -- from the savagery of the oligarchy. The Civil Rights Movement, which borrowed its tactics from the labor movement, taught us the value and power of solidarity. The feminist renaissance of the late 1960s showed us all how, with consciousness-raising, individual fear becomes collective anger and with objective analysis evolves into correct action. Alas, I do not know if any amount of consciousness-raising is powerful enough to overcome the seductive malignance of materialism. But the New Deal and solidarity and consciousness-raising are precisely the examples we must emulate if we are to succeed in our newest quest -- undoubtedly the most pivotal such effort in U.S. history: rescuing America from the dire forces that hold her ever more in thrall.


Edit: typos/accidental omissions.

[omega minimo]

53. "Sheductive Malignansche of Materialishm"

---Oh sorry, I was imagining your phrase delivered by Sean Connery :evilgrin:

"Alas, I do not know if any amount of consciousness-raising is powerful enough to overcome the seductive malignance of materialism."

"New Orleans won't do it because another big part of trinket materialism is a chronic and total inability to empathize: hence the 80 percent that refuses to believe the overwhelming evidence of negligent genocide and racism."

---Well then, we're shcrewed! (Would it be worthwhile to discuss the connection b/w materialism and the inablity to empathize?)

"Worse, such conditioning (and the mindset it is designed to produce) has become the very quintessence of America and Americanism."

---OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!

"What we have to do to facilitate that emergence is show how New Orleans and Iraq are merely separate battles in the same war in which Bush is the top general: the oligarchy's concentration of wealth and its concurrent reduction of all the rest of us to maximum disempowerment, maximum poverty, maximum fear."

---Okay, let's try that. :bounce: Let's maximize our empowerment, minimize our poverty and maximize our courage.

And reclaim or redefine "the very quintessence of America and Americanism."

If they didn't want us believing them fairy tales they shouldnta taught um too us en skool.

:patriot:

[newswolf56]

60. As you understand, I am not crying "hopelessness"; I am instead saying...

that if we are going to win this struggle, we must first thoroughly understand what we are up against. This is merely the prelude to good strategy and sound tactics. The strategy and tactics themselves will arise through our analysis of the situation as it evolves. We must never stop asking ourselves, "what is to be done?"

Quoting your terms, I think we "maximize our empowerment" by this very discussion; I think we likewise "minimize our poverty" -- that is, minimize our powerlessness -- and "maximize our courage" too: for many people -- under the omnipresent glaring electronic eye of the government and the new gestapo -- it takes great bravery even to speak up anonymously.

By the way, I too agree we should have a Katrina forum. But we should not name it after the hurricane because that distracts from the very issue upon which we seek to focus. We should instead name the forum "New Orleans": the embodiment of the post-hurricane atrocities and the dire need to keep the message of those atrocities alive in the collective consciousness of America.

As to redefining the quintessence of America and Americanism, one of the great ironies of New Orleans is that its aftermath may do just that: not the heartbreaking grotesques of suffering to which we responded, but the embittering hardships inflicted by the subsequent economic crisis. Ironically this is a crisis the oligarchs could do much to abate, but in their greedy malevolence will allow to worsen to the societal breaking-point-- maximum concentration of wealth, total disempowerment of workers, forcible suppression of dissent: New Orleans as the future of America. So deprived of their trinkets, even the bourgeoisie will eventually awaken. Our job will be to ensure that they awaken to progressive values -- not the prefabricated fascism that is already waiting in the wings.

Which brings me to the good news: in advertising, a 10-per-cent immediate response to a new message is considered the maximum attainable; 20 percent is a genuine miracle. Thus the great awakening has already begun; no wonder the oligarchs are running scared.

[omega minimo]

62. Here's mud in your omnipresent glaring electronic eye

:toast:

"Ironically this is a crisis the oligarchs could do much to abate, but in their greedy malevolence will allow to worsen to the societal breaking-point-- maximum concentration of wealth, total disempowerment of workers, forcible suppression of dissent: New Orleans as the future of America."

Ironically as well, the City of New Orleans is a unique center of culture, music, art.... residents, musicians and artists are determined to return to recreate their city.

So, the "greedy malevolence" will play out the nationwide phenomenon of mercenary gentrification-- and the funky, mighty mighty spirit of New Orleans will push back.

A drama for the ages and for the nation.

[marions ghost]

76. some questions...re. forum

I'm wondering if we wouldn't limit our possibilities if we narrow our focus --I mean, shouldn't the forum encompass ALL Katrina victims and survivors? There are many people in the other states who have serious grievances about the response also...many are poor and black too, but regardless it seems that the entire coast is traumatized. We could actually look at how well the other states are faring and bring some of their stories to light too. I think there are atrocities everywhere actually. And maybe some 'awakened bourgeoisie' from that area will find their voice (not holding my breath but you never know). I think if we make it just about NO we do an injustice to the other Gulf States, who already feel they have been overshadowed by NO. Some input from DUers from those other Katrina-ravaged states would be helpful.

[newswolf56]

89. You're right, of course. I was unclear and will try again:

Actually I had two concerns: (1)-That by calling it "Katrina Forum" it would open the door to the raving nut-jobs who believe Bush controls the weather and MIHOP'd New Orleans and the Gulf Coast; that by calling it "Katrina" it would focus away from the real issue: the aftermath. But the perfect solution might be to call it "Katrina Response Forum," which addresses your absolutely valid objections to the "New Orleans" label, and mine to merely calling it "Katrina."

In fact -- I don't know DU's labeling policies so don't know whether this would be allowed -- I'd like to see it called "Katrina Response: a Humanitarian Outrage." This would open the door not only to those of us who believe (as I do) that it was at least passive genocide, but also to those who are in denial as to the causes but are nevertheless outraged by what happened.

(Actually I think it was far worse than passive genocide. I think one of the reasons Bush deliberately withheld aid is that Bush and his advisers knew the withholding -- and the resultant death -- would be resoundingly applauded by racists throughout the nation. Yes, race-hatred in this country really is that intense: every bit as malignant as it was 40 years ago, just a lot more closeted.)

[marions ghost]

91. compromise is good

Katrina Response Forum = I like because it's probably what anything longer would get boiled down to in use. But we could put it to a vote.

I know race-hatred is alive and well in this country (along with all the other hatreds) but it's hard to imagine that the Bushies would want such a malicious intent to be so obviously revealed. I mean, there are a lot of other constituencies to which they must at least appear to be civilized (hiding their true nature). They usually work hard to cover all their traces. I think it's more likely that they saw the opportunity to use this (sure they knew it was coming) to rebuild the city and control surrounding resources without the bother and expense and racial tension--of relocating a lot of people. Like Baker the racist Rep from Baton Rouge said, "We couldn't clean up public housing, but God did." However there was obviously so MUCH wrong with FEMA and Homeland Security's response that the masterminds got exposed in their cynical plan, and the whole country witnessed the literal sacrificing of innocent people. Oops. I don't think that was SUPPOSED to happen. Not good for PR.
The administration must be held directly accountable for crimes against humanity.

[marions ghost]

83. excellent points as usual newswolf

as u say--when you have literally 'nothing to lose' such as blacks and students did, you are more inclined to protest injustice...but now the constituency we are attempting to prick the conscience of is highly protective of their material well-being. Right. They can't be easily pried from their cocoons and spurred to action. (Remember when they actually promoted "cocooning" as a lifestyle choice or trend? I remember thinking, and what happens when you emerge from the cocoon? (You DO emerge, right?) Your description of the addicted consumer gives me shivers...when consuming things becomes like needing a drug. The 'core selfishness' is indocrinated early, I totally agree.

I do think that in addition to the hardcore cocooners and terminally selfish we have a larger number of "awake" individuals among us than we may think. People who reject materialism as the path to a successful life. When people are quiet they are not necessarily out of touch. I think a lot are aware, but they have been paralyzed out of fear and a sense of hopelessness, with no outlet for their objections. Those people CAN be reached and I think they DO get it about Katrina. And they are growing in number. If they don't get on board our raft soon, we might be sunk. But I'm hopeful after Katrina--as OM says we must HONOR those who suffered there, not only out of empathy but becasue they may very well have died for our awakening. The only way to honor them in that sense is to oppose Tyrannosaur (I'm incorporating that into my personal lingo...)

I appreciated your biographical tidbits newswolf...glad you escaped from the corporate press. Hope you're writing some of those transformational stories you talked about--a collection would be good or even a book. We need inspiring stories for liberals these days> I relate to your background as both my parents were hardworking newspaper journalists. Even on two salaries we only had one car so my Dad walked (!) to work--imagine walking to work these days?! I can still see him taking off in his delapidated loafers and frayed button-down shirts for a long day in the salt mines of the Word World...he managed to get out of it with his sanity too, just barely. Good ending.

[omega minimo]

40. Antidis establishmumblement arianism

"dawning real-ization" :think: :loveya:

"great awakening: to win this one, we need all the help we can get"
:kick: :boring: :kick: :boring: :kick: :boring: :kick: :boring:

"Not just the trinket-materialist's fear of losing possessions, but the oppressed person's terror of the new gestapo."
:hide: :hide: :bounce: :hide: :hide:

"Which is yet another dimension of the infinite truth in Franklin Delano Roosevelt's great statement:
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."" :evilfrown: :evilgrin: :evilfrown:

Every great leader and teacher has taught us that we must embody the principles (of, say, democracy or, say, chrisitanity) or they are meaningless and hollow.

Bleak self-fulfilling prophecies are another sort of hypocrisy.

:bounce: :bounce:

Ghandi suggested we be the change we want to see in the world.

(btw: W has always reminded me of Mumbles from Dick Tracy :rofl: )

[marions ghost]

80. enlightening...

thanks for your sharp insights and long-range perspective newswolf. I agree its going to take a lot to defeat Tyrannosaur. Yep we need a good orator, need to maximize the net (and support new media), and I STRONGLY agree that we need to AVOID ORGANIZATIONAL HEIRARCHIES --which I have seen to be the downfall of many a good affinity group.

What do you think of the idea Omega minimo suggested in post # 33 (and #39)--I also seconded that concept in my post #77. Since you're an idea kind of guy, do you think this could work?

[newswolf56]

88. "Town Hall" type meetings are very good:

I support this idea too. The one stipulation is that to be effective the meetings need to (A) have the sponsorship of some local group (especially to get free access to the meeting facilities) and (B) be adequately publicized well in advance.

I doubt (with the notable exception of John Edwards) today's Democratic Party would touch this with the proverbial 10-foot pole: the party really is too shackled to the corporate interests -- the oligarchy for whom Bush and his all-Republican government is the ultimate achievement. Thus the only likely sponsorship candidate I can think of would be the Unitarian Church -- more properly the American Unitarian Universalist Association (AUUA) -- but I have no idea how to contact it. Also under this administration there's a large probability AUUA would get persecuted by the IRS as a church playing politics (only the Christofascists are allowed to do that), but the Unitarians exhibited considerable bravery during Civil Rights times and therefore might do so again.

Bottom line, yeah: OM comes up with another superb idea.

[jokerman93]

28. suggestion: a consortium for truth

:nuke:

Find a way to bring together in a consortium all the leaders who are now fighting the fight. Sit them all in a room and present a public discussion on live television, the issues that now face our country and our world. Off the top, a few contributers to start with might be: Wes Clark, Dennis Kucinch, John Conyers, Edward Kennedy, Robert Kennedy Jr., Al Gore, The entire Black Caucus, Robert Byrd, Hugo Chavez, and George Galloway (and any courageous Republicans who have had enough).

:mad:

These are just a few people who have already publicly spoken truth to power. They have nothing to lose by coming together in a public consortium and delivering an in-depth examination of the situation and our options as a nation.

:grouphug:

We could also send a DU delegation from each state. And since no one's running for anything here, this wouldn't have to be all speech making either. There could be panels, interviews, questions from the audience, call-in segments, even cell-phone voting ala American Idol. They could cover the range of issues from many angles, historically, sociologically, politically, religiously, technologically...you get the picture. These are the people who can take America to school on precisely what's going on.

:wow:

The public consortium/seminar could even be interspersed with home grown contributions like documentary shorts on poverty, peak-oil, Iraq, terrorism, racism, environmental change and so on. A contest could be arranged to encourage the creativity of young film makers who have something to say about the issues.

:headbang:

We don't have to rely on politics and protest alone to win this one. There's always ways to step outside the power game and use that leverage to advantage. So the idea of a televised consortium of all leaders willing to explore the truth openly just fits. I'm sure (C-SPAN) would be obliged to cover it, and you can bet all the press on the planet would be curious as hell about it - included FOX. (The thought of how pathetic their spin would be just makes me chortle with anticpation.)

:bounce:

Do I have any idea how to go about producing such a forum for the public? Nope. I don't know dick. But one thing I've learned being a lazy ass most of my life :-) -- you don't have to be an expert, you just have to catch the imagination of people that are. I see no reason why this couldn't be done with the help of knowledgeable and skilled DUers and friends.

:toast:

It would be (I think) one step in choosing the bright sustainable future WE envision for everyone in our nation and world. The truth is not political. It isn't up for debate, and America has a right to hear it straight. Maybe people who recognize the urgency of the situation would want to contribute their vision, talent, and clout to some variation of a project like this.

Expose the Bastards,
citizen J
:patriot:

[omega minimo]

33. Great idea. Even better without the cameras

A traveling talking group-- your vision of the larger group broken down into units of say 3-5 speakers, all in different areas of the country simultaneously, discussing themes that they have worked out in the larger group forum previously, maybe broadcast the initial discussion on TeeVee and head out to the people.... gangs of RW blowhards go on tours like this on occasion.

The only reason Big Bushco. Brother gets away with their crap is because people bleeve what they see on the TeeVee. In person is a different matter.

btw: They do have a lot to lose and the Truth is political.

:hi:

[jokerman93]

38. So you're suggesting...

So you're suggesting something like a coordinated tour that covers all the major cities and regions? Do you mean the tour(s) would launch after the larger group adjourns? Ok. I like it, but why do you say no cameras? I think we need to use media and make the event as public as possible nationally and internationally. Media is the right-wing's weapon of choice, IMO we need to learn to use their own mojo against them. Manufactured reality isn't going away any time soon, so we should master the process and turn it to the service of political truth.

Also, what does any of the truth-tellers have to lose that they haven't already publicly risked? All the folks I've mentioned and some that have been suggested on another parallel thread are already on the proverbial right-wing shit list, so how much more trouble can the attract by joining their voices? That's what I meant by having nothing to lose; not stated clearly though.

Is truth political? I suppose it is as long as lies have currency and criminals have credibility. But the idea of "spin" being an alternative truth, like being gay is an alternative lifestyle -- well that just doesn't play.

:evilfrown:

[omega minimo]

39. Why? The Power of Un-Manufactured Reality

"The only reason Big Bushco. Brother gets away with their crap is because people bleeve what they see on the TeeVee. In person is a different matter."

Bring back the town square, the town hall meeting...

Film is good too, for those who can't be there.

[marions ghost]

77. yep good idea

we have to do something to go direct to the people--I like this idea of a traveling group of speakers --reviving the town hall meeting.
The reason the RW has been so sucessful is that they inspire their followers to do this, esp through the churches--to make their message real to people. In conjunction with the hardsell on RW radio, it's very successful for them. We can't only rely on getting across through the net, although that is a huge asset right now and will continue to be.

Since we libs don't believe in proseletyzing through churches we must bring the message to people some other way. I could even see combining this idea of speakers with some "fair" type elements--dramatizations, comedians during the break, music--make it an all-day event. Something to inspire as well as inform (my thing is cultural events)--is this too far-fetched? They do this kind of thing at protests but it could be expanded even a little more. Isn't that what the traveling Middle Ages fairs did...well, these are the Dark Ages--the age of no public media, or not much anyway. I think we need to go direct to shine the light of hope and renewal into peoples hearts. This IS what the rightwingers did for their followers. They energized them.

[jokerman93]

82. The question for me is How?

How is this done? How do "we" get the ball rolling on an idea like this? Would starting a forum to brainstorm suggestions and formats etc. be a good start? Can we generate enough interest?

[marions ghost]

84. if we start a forum in DU

we can use it to judge whether there is enough interest to go to the next level with any ideas. Seems we have enough people to start such a forum. It wouldn't take away Katrina-related posts in GD. More it would be a place to brainstorm action tasks, investigate big ideas like this one, and get into the issues more in depth. Things get lost quickly in the constantly flowing GD board. The elections forum has functioned successfully like this.

[TheStates]

41. Unified repeal of the corporate tax laws, reform of the system!

The tearing apart of the GOP-created welfare system and conservative drowning of government. Immediate disaster relief, disaster response, and public endorsement of raising the minimum wage!!!!!!

No more special interests being thrown around in Congress!!!!! Congress WILL respect our wishes. Every democrat in congress WILL follow our wishes and answer to us!!!

[brindis_desala]

44. I see certain Duers here constantly moaning but I posted this

last week and not a single response. The conditions in some of the shelters are horrendous if you know of one in your area go out and see how you can help. People are angry and pining for leadership.

The NAACP needs help to coordinate the
efforts on the ground please contact Glenn Smith
http://www.drivedemocracy.org

LA NAACP calls for distributed, bottom up organizing
in shelters
by Bob Brigham

Dr. Ernest Johnson of the Louisiana NAACP is making a
huge move and we need to get the word out. Dr. Johnson
needs the netroots to stand with the NAACP in
solidarity.

This bottom up, grassroots model is scalable and could
make a huge difference in the lives of refugees. This is democracy.

Today in NYC we had a rally for single payer health care then picketed the state offices. Replicate it in your state. Actions speak louder than words.

[omega minimo]

46. Thank you for that Brindis

[Chicago Democrat]

45. Let's CATAPULT THE PROPAGANDA COMRADES!!!

(irony and sarcasm intended)


By ALL MEANS NECESSARY

[omega minimo]

47. Repeal the Richie Rich Tax Cut-- that's not the same as "new" taxes!

:kick:

[IndyOp]

48. I PRAY you are right about this:

"Be honest about the fact that Bushco. is afraid of the American people standing up to the game."

I waiver. If you have faith, keep the faith.

:patriot:

[omega minimo]

50. Should we admit this is no longer America?

Americans are a stubborn lot, you know. :evilgrin:

Have we already given up?

[IndyOp]

52. I admit that it is *not* the America I thought it was...

The beginning of real, substantive change is TRUTH.

Americans are a stubborn lot and many of the stubborn Americans are die-hard salute-the-chief types who buy into the propaganda.

And NO I am not giving up. What is giving up? I do what I can do today and then I'll get up and do as much or more tomorrow.

[omega minimo]

55. Good point

:patriot:

[newswolf56]

56. From the perspective of the oligarchy, the great horror of New Orleans...

was that it revealed to the world the dire extent to which today's America is but a hollow shell of her former self -- a skeleton sucked dry of life, a box looted of its contents. But emptied by design -- not accident -- and the Lords of Emptiness still as deadly as ever: capable of nuking the entire world with merely a flick of the finger -- and now officially willing to do so "as circumstances demand." An ultimate (and ultimately Christofascist) declaration of war. Remember Vietnam: "we had to destroy the village to save it -- better dead than Red."

[omega minimo]

59. America-- love it even when it leaves you

We are asking those in denial to look in the ___ faces of New Orleaners and see themselves at risk, abandoned;
and the more they get it, that it COULD be them (or the deeper fear that it already is them and it IS too late) the more the trinket-hypnotized dig in and deny.

That's the game, that IS the big lie-- so outrageous, none will call the bluff.

So, the people get the government they deserve.

Still, somehow, I think we owe a debt of apology and honor to the survivors of New Orleans; we owe them a debt of gratitude for revealing the lizard behind the mask and one final chance to wake up.

[newswolf56]

61. I doubt it would be allowed, but imagine a campaign focused on the fact...

we will all of us, regardless of race, someday be elderly: still-photographs and video of the elderly abandoned in New Orleans, the message repeated in text and voice-over with every image: someday we will all be old/who then will care for us?

(Based on present-day indications, the only politician in the United States who would dare get behind such a campaign is John Edwards.)

[omega minimo]

63. Looks like they're tryin to make sure that doesn't happen either

Gettin old, that is :evilgrin:

Hey, and everybody was a baby once. How bout those babies being starved and dehydrated? That's an image most can identify with. That's why I don't understand..................................:boring:

[newswolf56]

64. The entruthment of America versus its dismumblement (thank you OM):

Betrayed infants and abandoned elders inflicting more damage than all the massed artillery and aerial bombardment of Iraq.

(Some assertions cannot be mumbled into oblivion.)

Irony again: as if the concept of "Shock and Awe" has been flung back against those who first invoked it.

Perhaps the ancient Rule of Threes.

Or karma: as if somewhere a Spinner turns her Wheel and chuckles -- then starts a new thread and laughs aloud:

The convergence of two fibers, each wool, each born far from the other, each with its shearer's own song, each now an equal measure of the Spinner's intent:

The tops of the beech tree
Have sprouted of late
Are changed and renewed
From their withered state.

and

O far and away the road goes winding...

Two fibers, one gray as shadows of the moon, the other red as blood and fire:

The strands combine. The Spinner sings. The Wheel quickens.

(Perseverance furthers.)

[omega minimo]

66. LOL that title made me think of Dr. Seuss

and inside find pure poetry.

Yep, truth trumps mumble, once and forever.

:toast:

[newswolf56]

68. Thank you, OM: dialogue with you increasingly becomes...

as poetically inspiring as it is thought provoking.

[omega minimo]

95. I felt a cleavage in my mind

As if my brain had split;
I tried to match it, seam by seam,
But could not make them fit.

The thought behind I strove to join
Unto the thought before,
But sequence ravelled out of reach
Like balls upon a floor.



....:evilgrin:
:bounce: :bounce:

[marions ghost]

71. I think this is the bottom line...

So many middle-class Americans are scared and worried about their own security. They are processing a disturbing fact --that (as u say) they have 'looked into the face of New Orleaners and seen...themselves.' One of the most interesting things I've observed is that so many people immediately compared their reaction re. Katrina to 9-11. This indicates that they DO see the magnitude, the serious implications, and they are taking it very personally. It also indicates a 'doubling' of the psychological effect, a reopening of an old wound. Though I understand your frustration at inaction OM, I think the general public is not so apathetic as you may fear. I believe they are horrified and seriously shaken, and paralyzed re. Accountability. Right now if they do anything, it's to support relief efforts.

I don't think it's a matter of waking up anybody--I think they're awake and highly sensitized now. The question is what's the best way to help people come together and demand accountability for Katrina--at the point that they are most receptive (ie. just after the traumatic first stage passes (6-8 weeks, or whenever it appears the situation is 'under control' in a basic sense).

BUT we activists have to be careful in the approach and never underestimate the public. Nobody likes a guilt trip put on them or a demand for a certain kind of response. Nobody likes the implication that they have been lax or out-to-lunch before this, and nobody likes a superior tone, as in 'the people get the government they deserve.' This gets us NOWHERE. It's counter-productive. Any activist who goes around with the attitude that the people are 'getting what they deserve' these days needs to go to OZ and get a heart. The guilt trip just won't work. It won't be effective. Expressing frustration here among DU supporters is fine but it's important to relate to the people you are trying to reach, not put them down.

I completely agree with you that this country owes the survivors of Katrina (AND those who did not survive) a debt of gratitude--many have been sacrificed in the flood waters and many will live with psychic pain-- so that this country will finally face the appalling implications of our current direction. That is also the legacy of the victims and survivors of 9-11. The ONLY way they can be honored--is if we act on these tragedies to change things for the future. Never Again.

[omega minimo]

73. If I underestimated the public I would not be impatient

"The question is what's the best way to help people come together and demand accountability for Katrina--"

It would not have surprised me at all if there had been a spontaneous upsurge of active response to government failure after Katrina, directed at political leaders. Perhaps I overestimate the public :evilgrin:

I believe I was quoting one of the Founders who remarked,

"The people get the government they deserve."

As acknowledged elsewhere in this thread, I absorbed the fairy tales of American democracy. I do not suffer from a separation b/w myself and the "people you are trying to reach." The misdirected lecture that follows reflects the distance and condescension that plagues some DUers and most "framing" fans-- projecting an Us and Them attitude in a truly "superior" tone.

"BUT we activists have to be careful in the approach and never underestimate the public. Nobody likes a guilt trip put on them or a demand for a certain kind of response. Nobody likes the implication that they have been lax or out-to-lunch before this, and nobody likes a superior tone, as in 'the people get the government they deserve.' This gets us NOWHERE. It's counter-productive. Any activist who goes around with the attitude that the people are 'getting what they deserve' these days needs to go to OZ and get a heart. The guilt trip just won't work. It won't be effective. Expressing frustration here among DU supporters is fine but it's important to relate to the people you are trying to reach, not put them down."

This discussion has provided great insight and contact with folks who are real people, not cartoon characters, among the "great unwashed" that DU sometimes pretends aren't actually HERE.

"Expressing frustration here among DU supporters is fine but it's important to relate to the people you are trying to reach, not put them down.""

What divides some DUers from people they need to "relate to"? We are here. The sheet of glass that some DU activists perceive b/w themselves and "the pubic" is an impediment to reaching "the people you are trying to reach."

:patriot:

[marions ghost]

74. sorry if you think I gave you a misdirected lecture OM

--it seemed to me that you were using the quote "the people get the government that they deserve' --to make the point that people who are in denial about Katrina or trinket-hypnotized will get the government they deserve. When you say "the people" it leads me to think of average middle-Americans. To make a statement like this sounds condescending to my ears (even though I KNOW your heart is in the right place). It's not just you, I see this attitude all over the place, and my comments were meant generally as a caution. It does not help our cause. We activists do have an image problem with superiority. This would seem relevant to any discussion of how to reach people who may not be quite as with-it or well-informed.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying OM--am I not allowed to express where I disagree without being accused of lecturing? I mean, can we talk? You have alot of energy for this and so do I, so we can find common ground and mutual respect I feel sure. :)

PS--see my post #75 above also.

[Kire]

51. Diamante Love for President in 2034

Start the Campaigning Now!

[omega minimo]

54. Already a leader!

Thank you, LOL love that.

[snot]

65. (1): They want nothing more than for us to give up. (2):

I'm hoping that as a result of the corporate media's brief fling with reality, at least a few more citizens out there are going to start seriously wondering about * Admin credibility.

[omega minimo]

67. Dilemma: complacency/resignation while reading the writing on the wall

is where this discussion started, on a thread about generational differences.

Tonight a thread reveals different perspectives on the death of "The American Dream."

The dilemma: if we are aware, if we know what is goin on, if we see the writing on the wall, how do we end up where we don't wanna go?

In the midst of these recurring DU subjects, a flame in the murk:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2098056&mesg_id=2098158

[LeahD]

69. So very glad I took the time to read this thread. Nominated! n/t

[LeahD]

70. Too late on the nomination. Let's keep this kicked!

[Seansky]

79. Accept the country has changed and that learned lessons are meant

to be used toward a better future. Then ask each other what we want that future to be, find some consensus and help each other move forward by channeling our actions.

Maybe?

[LeahD]

85. Kerry is saying the same in a speech at Brown.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4819246

<snip>
That’s the unmet challenge we have to face together. Katrina is the background of a new picture we must paint of America. For five years our nation's leaders have painted a picture of America where ignoring the poor has no consequences; no nations are catching up to us; and no pensions are destroyed. Every criticism is rendered unpatriotic. And if you say “War on Terror” enough times, Katrina never happens.

Well, Katrina did happen, and it washed away that coat of paint and revealed the true canvas of America with all its imperfections. Now, we must stop this Administration from again whitewashing the true state of our challenges. We have to paint our own picture - an honest picture with all the optimism we deserve - one that gives people a vision where no one is excluded or ignored. Where leaders are honest about the challenges we face as a nation, and never reserve compassion only for disasters.

Rarely has there been a moment more urgent for Americans to step up and define ourselves again. On the line is a fundamental choice. A choice between a view that says “you’re on your own,” “go it alone,” or “every man for himself.” Or a different view - a different philosophy - a different conviction of governance - a belief that says our great American challenge is one of shared endeavor and shared sacrifice.
<snip>

[Seansky]

87. Oh man, I wasn't really being that serious about it.

That was where the maybe came from? don't know how to feel about it...I hope it is the direction we all need Kerry to go... what do you think?

[LeahD]

90. Better than treading water!

I think we're going to hear much more, not only from Kerry, but other Dems as well.

On edit/grammar

[jokerman93]

86. definitely.

:toast:

[newswolf56]

92. I posted this on another thread but it is absolutely relevant here:

(Note especially how portraying Bush as "incompetent" and a "blunderer" provides an immediate rationalization for inaction and therefore reinforces our sense of powerlessness. And yes I believe that is precisely its purpose -- that the powers that be are indeed just that cunning, and are now merely applying to politics the darker manipulative techniques long ago perfected by Madison Avenue for sales and marketing.)

Bush is NOT an "incompetent": his alleged "blunders" (whether in New Orleans or Iraq) are all deliberate expressions of meticulously crafted policy. Bush is in fact the most savage class-warrior (and race-warrior) ever to hold the presidency -- the most cunning tyrant in U.S. history -- specifically put in office to facilitate the oligarchy's concentration of wealth and the total disempowerment of all the rest of us.

The stubborn refusal to recognize that Bush's alleged "incompetence" is in fact policy is the most damning example of dishonest rationalization I have ever encountered in politics anywhere: dismissing Bush as "incompetent" merely bolsters the myth of powerlessness -- rationalizing and excusing silence and inaction. This is because "incompetence" is incurable (and therefore must be endured until the next election). But policy is totally different: policy can be exposed, challenged, protested in the streets, obstructed, repealed.

Indeed their own eager acquiescence to the myth of "incompetence" shows precisely the horrific extent to which the Democrats too have been co-opted by the oligarchy.

[omega minimo]

93. Got something to hide? Send the dumb guy out to answer questions

Standard MO for all levels of government.

He is a competant front man for the policy makers. :evilfrown:

[omega minimo]

94. Post-Y2Katrina Can-o'-Worms Focus Group Hug

If there is a DU Forum dedicated to the Katrina Response and its aftermath, could it be focused in some fashion similar to DU Groups? Posted below is info on how to form a Group, including a request to contact the Administrators by email if the subject is controversial. The current discussion is about motivation and action; about harnessing the energy on DU to organize local and/or televised public forums and campaigns of pubic input to legislators.

In our various levels and timeframes of outrage and outreach, we are interested here in honoring the suffering of the survivors in New Orleans, suffering inflicted by the negligence of officials in charge of rescue and relief services;

We choose to honor that suffering with calls to action including:

--Support for ongoing relief and relocation efforts for all survivors displaced by Katrina

--A call to our elected representatives for IMMEDIATE independent investigation of the accountability of the national administration for their responsiblities in responding to the crisis in New Orleans.

--Local and national meetings calling for unity within the community and the nation, to examine the issues highlighted by Katrina; and to explore the nation's new awareness of The Common Good.

--Engagement with national Democratic leaders who will address these issues with concerned Americans

--Etc.

Note: these events have put a spotlight on the tangle of socioeconomic issues that are most vital-- and most threatening-- for all Americans (whether they know it or not). Will we have the perspective and the courage to address the point at which all these issues converge?

For revealing the rot at the core of the American commonwealth, for suffering with dignity and courage the most terrifying indignities, for baring the Soul of America to itself, we can honor the New Orleans survivors and victims of Katrina in a simple way-- by bearing witness to what we have seen; by honestly and willingly facing the implications and the consequences.

:patriot:

This revision of a famous poem was posted 9-6 by OM

First they betrayed the truth, to make war
I did not speak out
because I was not responsible .

When they betrayed the Iraqis,
I did not speak out
because I was not an Iraqi.

When they betrayed the American military,
I did not speak out
because I was not a soldier.

When they betrayed the City of New Orleans
I did not speak out
because I was not poor or black;

And when they betrayed me,
there was no one left to speak out.

:smoke:


First They Came... is a poem by Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) about the quiescence of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. In Spanish-speaking countries the poem has been often erroneously attributed to Bertolt Brecht since the 1970s.

An early supporter of Hitler, by 1934 Niemöller had come to oppose the Nazis, and it was largely his high connections to influential and wealthy businessmen that saved him until 1939, after which he was imprisoned, eventually at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. He survived to be a leading voice of penance and reconciliation for the German people after World War II. His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the phenomenon of social chaos, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control.

First they came for the communists,
I did not speak out
because I was not a communist.

When they came for the social democrats,
I did not speak out
because I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists
I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews
I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew;

And when they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

:yourock:

The Activist HQ has some great resource/action threads.

The research thread started by momcat was most excellently organized by category. (Heavy thread-- 540 posts)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22805&mesg_id=22805

DUers Katrina Research Thread: Organized by categories

I am starting this thread to organize information about hurricane Katrina. Please please please help keep this site organized. We need a place where people can find information fast. Here is the design. First I will establish categories as replies to the original post. Each of these will be like a folder. If you have links to articles please put them in the right folder-reply-post. The folder-reply-category-posts will have names such as the following:

Before K: Info about the likely consequences Scientific articles
Befork K: Info about likely consequences madia articles
Before K: What the Government knew
Just before K: Weather and news alerts
Just before K: Govt action..city, state, fed
Before K: FEMA
During K: FEMA
After K: FEMA

If you add any information to these categories, please format the information as follows:

subject line: date first, title of article
message area: link to the article(that has been refreshed), brief description of the article or post from it so that someone can immediately figure out what it is about.
Please use this thread only to organize material into categories. If you do not see your category already listed, please only add new categories if you use the format listed above: pre- K, during K, and after K. Tomorrow we will start a new category called after September 8.

Please also do not use this thread to post replies, comments, or request for information.

:applause:

Greenpartyvoter also started an action thread with a multitude of resources and links.

ACTIVISM REQUEST: Blast Homeland Security Committee and Congress for the disaster in the wake of the disaster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=22507&mesg_id=22507

:kick:

How to Suggest a DU Group

One of the best things about DU Groups is that members have the ability to suggest new groups to the Administrators of Democratic Underground. If you wish to suggest a group, please follow this procedure:

1. Start one discussion thread in the forum of your choice to tell people about your idea for a DU Group.

2. In that thread, you must get responses from at least ten DU members who agree to be active participants in the suggested DU Group. All ten members to respond must have donor stars.

3. In that thread, members must agree on a proposed mission statement for the DU Group.

more: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=206x10

If you are considering a DU Group on a controversial topic, the Administrators would appreciate if you contacted us before collecting your ten members, so we may discuss any sensitive issues. This courtesy will increase the chance that your Group is approved. Also, please be aware that proposed Groups that are redundant with existing DU Forums are unlikely to be approved.
If you have any questions, please contact a forum Administrator.
Skinner
EarlG
Elad
Democratic Underground Administrators

[marions ghost]

96. OK, does this amount to a proposal for a group?

Your calls to action seem to be a good basis for defining the group's purpose. Pretty well sums it up.

But would a 'Katrina Response forum' be redundant with what's being done by the DU activist group? If not redundant, then I suggest to put this out as a another post--a short proposal listing goals and purpose--so that others who are interested can show support.

Time to do this would be soon if you don't want to miss the moment. I'd do this myself but don't want to step on any toes, as there appear to be others who are leading the way. At any rate someone needs to come forth who'll just get this going if it's meant to happen. Doesn't matter to me who does it but we need to act on the momention here, provided the DU activist corps is OK with it. Or should we just work with them?

[omega minimo]

97. Let's discuss interest in this action idea

Let's get some feedback. I will contact Admin and invite comment from GVP and momcat.

:patriot:

[marions ghost]

98. sounds good

will you kindly post that as a new thread when you get some info so that others can join in without wading through all this preliminary chatter?

Thanks

[omega minimo]

99. Chatter?

Yer East Coast, aren't ya? :evilgrin:

[marions ghost]

100. yep

but here's where my 3 best (lifelong) friends in the entire world live: Frisco(near), LA, San Diego
(oh yeah and there's one more in Eugene, Oregon)
It's only a little difference in style, not substance.

Right, I am tired of talking about the WHY (which I feel we've been doing since K week) and get on with the what and how (not that more talk and group support isnt OK in conjunction) but I'd like to get going on some concrete things. It seemed to me your post is calling for that kind of focus. A work group can also be a kind of support group--that is true in the elections forum (esp after the brutal shock of the election of 2004--support was certainly one of the functions). If a designated forum on Katrina doesn't work out, I'll just keep doing my lonely thing, but I think it would help consolidate the effort.

[newswolf56]

101. The Europeans get it even if most Americans don't. And...

some Americans do get it. Here are two more vital links:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,375496,00.html

and this from Paul Krugman:

http://www.pkarchive.org/column/091905.html

Also there's a DU thread evolving from the Spiegel link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4831356

[omega minimo]

102. RE: Katrina Response Forum concept + action/discussion links

Currently the response from DU admin on a dedicated Katrina Forum is pending (previously requested by others who are active in Katrina efforts on DU).

The DU Activist HQ Forum contains an amazing resource thread (over 540+ posts) minded by the awesome momcat. Also, a rich resource thread by the mighty mighty GreenPartyVoter. Please see post #94 above for links.

Both contain a multitude of threads for action and links to articles on ALL aspects of the can of worms called Katrina.

Check out NewsWolf56' thread linked in post # 101.

:patriot:

Thank you all for an excellent discussion.