Question regarding UN condemnations: Once the condemnation

[lindashaw]

is debated and passed, what happens? Does the offending party suffer any consequences besides world opinion?

[Flying_Pig]

1. Moot point. The U.S. will veto it, as they have almost everytime

in the past, and no further action will be taken.

Israel is a co-conspiritor in the U.S./PNAC plan for world domination, and theU.S. will do everything it can to protect Sharon and his fascist Likud Israeli government, no matter what they do.

[lindashaw]

2. I totally agree with your reply, I was just wondering in general...

with any country.

[Josh]

4. How is the Likud government fascist?

I don't care for them much but they an elected government of Israel, which is WAY more than I can say for the Palestinian, the Syrian government, the Pakistani government, the Saudi Arabian government or even the US government.

So how are they fascist? Any why, I'm asking again, do people on the left continue to side with terrorists on a daily basis, just because you hate the government of Israel or the US?

[Fozzledick]

5. They refuse to commit suicide! How dare they!!

The Arab aggressor states have been trying for over 50 years to destroy the state of Israel and drive it's population "into the sea".
Since they were soundly defeated in their repeated attempts to invade with conventional military force, they've resorted to inciting "useful idiots" from the stateless Arab population they displaced by their own military actions into making suicidal terrorist attacks against the Israeli civilian population.

Since their claim on Israeli territory is based primarily on the presumed divine mandate of Muslims to kill any and all non-Muslims they come into contact with, any violence which occurs as a result is obviously the fault of the Israelis for insisting on defending themselves!:mad:

[Flying_Pig]

6. Here's how they are fascist. Go over this list, and see how many you

can apply to both Israel, and the U.S. In doing so, your question will be answered.

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

view the whole page at:
http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

[Fozzledick]

7. One

"Obsession with national security"

Seems quite rational under the circumstances of constant genicidal assault.

But then your original complaint is that they refuse to commit suicide, isn't it?

[John_H]

9. No, the complaint, I believe, is that

both the Lekud and Bush administrations share many traits with fascist regiemes--even if they don't take any of these traits nearly as far as, say, Hitler did.

Conservatives are always talking about a "left wing" world view. Doen't it follow that there is a "right wing" worldview?

I personally don't think they all should commit suicide, although the world would certainly be a much better place if Sharon and Bush were sent into retirement. It'd also be a pretty good idea if the IDF would stop bombing killing children on purpose, knocking down innocent people's houses, using civilians as human shields, stopping law abiding isrealis from going to work, etc? Or are all these things fair game when you're under the threat of suicide bombers?

I don't know your politics on other issues, but I'm always shocked when folks who are progressive on nearly every issue, domestic and foreign policy, carve out an area of "pro right wing tactics" when it comes to dealing with Arabs.

[Fozzledick]

10. Sorting out the accusations

The heart of the accusation that I reject seems to be that Israel is fascist for using military force to defend itself against aggresors who have been trying to exterminate them for over 50 years and have now resorted to terrorism after failing to do so by direct military assault.

Dragging the Bush junta's genuinely fascist overthrow of the U.S. government into it is just a red herring intended to confuse the issue.

I reject your claim that the IDF deliberately kills children when they are clearly targeting the terrorists who attack them while deliberatlely using their own population as human sheilds both to facilitate their attacks and to try to manufacture sympathy. And yes that IS fair game when you're defending yourself from suicide bombers who hide in crowds of supporters.

Demolishing the property of terrorists strikes me as incredibly restrained when contrasted with the Arab governments' routine practice of collective punishment and extermination of rebels' entire families. What other government on Earth would be so restrained in the face of such atrocious attacks?

I'm not advocating any "pro right wing tactics", just self defense in the face of unrelenting aggression. And I continue to be astonished by how many people here seem to be advocating support for a campaign of terrorism motivated by a lust for conquest and genicide.

[Fozzledick]

11. dupe - ignore

[htuttle]

3. Any penalties would be spelled out in the resolution

If the resolution doesn't mention any, then there aren't any.

[HFishbine]

8. Mods, please move

as per stated policy:

"Any topic with I/P content is sent to F/A regardless of which forum it is posted in. So if a topic is started in GD re I/P, it is moved to the F/A forum."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=5045

[Taxi Driver]

12. Israel IS fascist.

Have you ever been there? As a Jew, I went there because it's supposed to be the holy land and all that; and I left disgusted. They confiscate your passport at the airport; Israeli Arabs walk through the streets with their heads hung low; the Palestinian quarters are the modern equivalent of Hitler's Warsaw ghetto; Palestinians are taken advantage of by Israeli businesses because they work at shit wages.

So give me a break with the "Israel is a democracy" crap. It's Bush times 10.