Please -about the deaf(?) poster here on DU

[DancingBear]

Just one thing - many here are taking shots at the grammar in the post, saying that even deaf folks can read and write.

My brother in law has been deaf since birth, and even now in his upper 40's he still does not use correct tenses, adverbs, etc. when writing (he mixes up when to use "them" and "those", for example). He is very intelligent, a senior level computer programmer of long standing, and able to "mainstream" in everyday life.

He just has trouble with writing - it is quite common in the deaf community.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is incorrect, and should do a little research before they post what can be construed as cruel comments.

As for the post in question - I'm still thinkin' 'bout that... :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Nicely said!!

It's not like sign language deals with all that grammar crap.

Those of us who hear it are at a clear advantage to learning all that weird grammar shit.

[etherealtruth]

34. ASL has it's OWN grammar and syntax

[newsguyatl]

64. < its > own you mean

sorry, couldn't resist

[etherealtruth]

83. I consistently make that faux pas ...

:spank:

[izzybeans]

2. Seriously, this happened? How embarassing. I'm sorry. nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEAVYHEART]

14. Hmm

I went to the stupid website for the first time when I saw your post about them joking, you know which site I'm talking about. What a shitty fucking website! Looks like a 3rd grader did it! Anyway, I couldn't find the post. The site is very disorganized.

[DancingBear]

19. Jesus, read what I wrote!

I'm pretty sure that post is, but my brother-in-law in a Dem as well. Suppose he decided to post here, and wrote with grammar that some here deemed "suspicious" - would you attack him too?

Trolls are easy enough to catch without resorting to this.

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. It's not the grammar, it's the deaf excuse, DancingBear.

I worked for years with deaf children, none of whom (without some measure of aphasia-a completely different diagnosis-) displayed that sort of grammatical inadequacy.

While I won't call the poster out, I am highly suspicious of his claim of deafness causing the problem. Dyslexia? Sure, MrG has it and cannot type an intelligible sentence even though he is quite intelligent. Aphasia? You bet. Deafness? Not on its own.

[DancingBear]

36. I got it, MrsG

I must say, I am VERY suspicious of the post, as it tries to make it look too much like what it probably is not, if you get the drift.

I must, however, hold to my argument that grammatical problems as seen in that post are not uncommon in the deaf community. My sister-in-laws brother is profoundly deaf (as in unable to speak save for guttural sounds), and his writing exhibits the same type (but NOT to this degree, which is where my well-deserved skepticism comes in) of "behavior" ("it's" vs. "its", "he will be arriving" vs. "he was arriving", etc.).

note: Some time back, there was a special (I think on Dateline) about handicapped people who were in the World Trade Center at the time of the attacks, and how they got out. There was a segment where a Dateline correspondent spoke (via a sign interpreter) to three deaf people - my sister-in-laws brother was one of them.

[izzybeans]

20. I don't doubt that. They like to set up people over here so as to say

"see you guys hate just like we do." Most of the time its just them mirroring one of their own trolls IMO.

[zbdent]

4. Insert Bush grammar joke here

insert evil laughter here . . .

[Flying Dream Blues]

5. I am also very sorry this happened.

I haven't seen the post, but wanted to respond with a show of support for the poster. I hope whoever it is won't be scared off by the ignorant troll.
:hug:

[HEyHEY]

6. Wow, that ain't cool, whoever made comments

:grr:

[mzteris]

7. that's unbelievable

I'm sorry that happened.

The truth is, there are many reasons a person might not be able to "type" or "write" well - and still be VERY intelligent.

Dysgraphia and other written language disorders abound.

People may have bad eyesight, poor muscle control, have arthritis, or other medical conditions that prohibit them from writing to the level of their intelligence. Maybe English is a SECOND LANGUAGE for them, hello??

If one is deaf, ASL is their primary language, isn't it? - which as I understand doesn't have tenses the way that English does. (Kinda like Chinese.)

Or, like me - sometimes I'm just so d@mn MAD that I can't even SEE straight, much less type properly!! (And Ok - I admit it - sometimes it's Friday night and...... well - you get the drift. :) ) The thing is, peop

Still there is no excuse for boorish behaviour.

[faithnotgreed]

11. well said mzteris

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shrike]

13. I know very intelligent, creative people who just can't spell

Katherine Anne Porter, one of our great short story writers, said she was not so good at punctuation and grammar and never bothered with it much in her first drafts -- she'd go over it all later and painstakingly try to correct her mistakes.

If you're dealing with someone on a typing-only basis it might occur to you, "Jeez, can't he/she write a sentence"? But there are plenty of LDs out there, dyslexia and the like, that plague people into adulthood.

[defiant1]

8. Just a question....

So your brother in law is a senior level computer programmer, but he can't master grammar?

I'm just asking, not trying to be an ass.

*Edited for spelling*

[Modem Butterfly]

15. I, for one, wonder what his code comments look like...

[DancingBear]

29. Do you have a dictionary?

If so, try looking up the word "compassion."

Your comments are disgusting - I would almost wish a life of no sound for you, but I already know someone like that, and he has you beat twelve ways from Sunday.

[Modem Butterfly]

31. Lighten up, Francis

I have no compassion for trolls, even those who claim to be disabled. Moreover, I have known enough folks in the deaf community to know that there is nothing, NOTHING, that prevents someone with a hearing disability alone from having strong reading and writing skills.

If you are close to wishing hearing disabilities on people, you need to logoff DU for a couple of hours and get some fresh air.

[DancingBear]

38. You have many friends in the deaf community?

Profoundly deaf, or hard of hearing? There is a world of difference. If you knew, and interacted with, the profoundly deaf you would know one thing, and that is this - NOBODY that has anything to do with the deaf community would ever say something as absolute as the phrase "NOTHING, that prevents someone with a hearing disability alone from having strong reading and writing skills."

In the world of the deaf, reading is to writing what a tree is to a can of soup.

You have much to learn - I hope it comes quickly.

[Modem Butterfly]

39. No TRUE scotsman eats his oatmeal with honey!

:eyes:

Seriously, you need to take a breather. I realize that your sister-in-law's brother is deaf, but that doesn't make you an expert.

[DancingBear]

43. "that doesn't make you an expert"

the poster says, after spending time writing posts that are chock full of absolutes.

Now THAT"S funny.

[Modem Butterfly]

47. When all else fails, go personal

I think you have a lot of misconceptions about hearing disabilities based on limited experience. While you seem like a naturally sympathetic person, you seem to have a problem with being contradicted, which led you to nearly wish a hearing disability on me simply because I take a different position. To be honest, that's kind of sick.

Whatever your problems are, I hope you find peace.

[DancingBear]

66. Yes, you are absolutely right

I am a sycophant.

Everyone here knows it, especially all the DU folks I've met.

As for the limited experience, again, spot on. Thirty plus years with a deaf relative, deaf nieces, hearing impaired relatives, deaf education teachers in the family.

What was I thinking??? <end rant>

On a personal note, I have no quibble with your position, but I do have problems with making statements without cause. If you believe that deafness is NO detriment to correct grammar, then all I ask is that you show proof to that effect. There are many here who argue cogent points that are contrary to mine, and I (and others) respond. We all learn.

If there is a history of deafness in your family, and if you have experiences that differ from mine, then I welcome your input. What bothered me was, quite frankly, your insistence that A cannot cause B. I am trying to tell you that it can. Save from being deaf myself, I don't know how much more personal experience I can bring to the table.

I hope you understand, and I do not wish ill to you in any way. My sincere apologies if that was construed by you as my intention. I just know that the deaf community has enough hurdles to climb as it is, and I watch my small part of it do things that I could never imagine.

As John would write - "them are good people."

Peace.

[DancingBear]

22. Yes - he can write code like nobody's business

When he left his last position there were no shortage of offers.

BTW, we kid him about that a lot... :)

[graywarrior]

9. Judge not....

[txindy]

10. My aunt has been deaf since birth

As I mentioned in that other thread, yet she has perfect grammar. :shrug:

Forget his explanation, it's the original post that's most interesting. Particularly the "Dumb Democrats" remark. Do YOU know many college students, particularly freepers, who would use those words before attacking someone? I certainly don't. They'd use lots of other words before "dumb." And they'd be unlikely to attack someone without a group backing them up.

[Brother Buzz]

16. Did Hawkeye X pipe in on that thread?

Seems he might have some input on the subject. He's been posting today, but search function isn't working so I can't locate the thread.

[txindy]

26. I don't think he has. Not yet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4769227&mesg_id=4769227

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Trouble writing is common in the aphasia community, not the deaf community

I used to work with deaf children, and even they showed better writing abilities than this guy. Not one had this sort of trouble. While I am not going to comment on the poster in question, I do raise my brow over the ability to process grammar due to deafness. If this poster had aphasia I'd be a bit more believing....but there are all kinds of troubles in this world. MrG doesn't have the best grammar...he's dyslexic, yet he is an intelligent man.

[yewberry]

21. Without meaning to criticize...

I've had some experience with the Deaf community here (Seattle) and you are right that there is no inherent lack of ability to process grammar for Deaf people.

However, in ASL-first environments and among those who are Deaf-of-Deaf or who self-identify as culturally Deaf, English grammar is not necessarily considered primary. In these situations, English is a second language and English grammar is very different from ASL grammar.

Absolutely true that intelligence has nothing to do with it.

[Modem Butterfly]

27. This person claims to have a Cochlear Implant

This is not someone who considers himself culturally deaf.

[yewberry]

32. True, that.

But it sounds like it may be a new implant and the poster may not come from an English-first environment. We don't know.

Again, not trying to challenge, just to understand.

[MostlyLurks]

37. Need definitions.

What do "deaf-of-deaf" and "culturally deaf" mean? Never known any deaf people so I'm ignorant.

Mostly

[yewberry]

45. Sure.

I'm not deaf or hard-of-hearing and am no expert! I only studied the language and found friends within the community.


Deaf-of-Deaf refers to Deaf kids from Deaf families. (ASL is usually the first language.)

"Culturally Deaf" is a harder concept. Frequently, hearing people think of deafness as a disability, something to be managed in order to function within the larger hearing world. People who consider themselves culturally Deaf don't consider deafness to be a disability but belong to a Deaf community with their own language, traditions, and cultural norms.

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaf_culture

[MostlyLurks]

51. Thanks.

Makes sense that those subgroups in the deaf community would be less-than-worried about English grammar and usage.

Mostly

[DancingBear]

40. Here is something interesting about my brother-in-law

While he knows ASL, he was "mainstreamed" all throughout his grammar school/high school life (my mother-in-law taught deaf education, and did not believe that anyone should not be able to function in a hearing society). That being said, John (BIL) still has trouble with grammar.

One of his daughters is profoundly deaf, and communicates by ASL only. Her grammar is at times better than her dad's.

[Mairead]

44. Not so, Mrs G

Long ago I was on a network that included deaf students from Gallaudet University (then College). English was their second language and only used when writing. All but a few wrote in a non-standard way consistent with having grown up using a conceptual rather than syntax-bound language.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. I was speaking from my own experience with the teachers and the children

over 6 years. I've never seen it. Only in those with aphasia or some other learning disability.

[Mairead]

52. It might be that two different populations are involved.(nt)

[Gregory1230]

18. Okay...

It is hard to explain, ok?

Here I go: Before this year, I grew up as deaf person, had lot of problems about English grammar because it was too hard for me to learn. I never learned anything about English grammar. I use hearing aid but did not help me very well. I was not able to understand people and how to speak people.

And now: I have Cochlear Implant (which in my left ear) that allow me to hear everything including birds, cars, etc (that I never hear things before). I am learning about how to speak act like an hearing person and understanding with people. I am intelligent person because I am smart about computers. In fact, I want to become computer programmer (after I can graduate for BA for computer science from Univ. of Central Florida, but I must earn AA first from Central Florida Community College).

So that's why I said I "was" deaf person. I am now almost hearing person but still need learn how to speech and English grammar. I hope you understand me very well.

Thanks!

[mzteris]

23. How old are you?

If you don't mind my asking.

[Gregory1230]

25. I am...

...thirty (30) years old.

[mzteris]

33. I'm curious

if it's not too personal to ask - why you waited so long for the implant. That seems awfully late in life.

[faithnotgreed]

30. hi gregory - im glad youre here

[Gregory1230]

53. Thanks!

[babylonsister]

50. This is trial by fire for you, Gregory.

Welcome to DU, and I hope this mixed response you're getting doesn't deter you from contributing and learning.

[Gregory1230]

54. Thanks!

[Pithlet]

28. I missed that thread.

But, I hate it when people nitpick others for grammar and spelling anyway. To do so when someone has a legitimate excuse is beyond ridiculous. Thank you for taking the time to educate others. They may not be aware of the things you've mentioned. Not that it excuses them.

[theHandpuppet]

58. I for one am thankful for threads regarding grammar and spelling

The literacy level here at DU is (as should be expected) quite high indeed but there are times when we set ourselves up as Freeper bait with posts containing mistakes in grammar and spelling that would make The World Weekly News look like classic literature.

Having a legitimate excuse for language difficulties is one thing and is perfectly understandable (the post about hearing impairment and grammar was most enlightening, thanks!), but by and large most of the mistakes I've seen -- over and over -- make me wonder how some folks ever passed a course in English. Sorry, but the wholesale dismissal of poor language/writing skills smacks of anti-intellectualism to me, relative to the same kind of selective derision many Republicans have so carefully cultivated to appear accessible to the masses. Such a tactic is at its core insulting to those very people Republicans presume to represent; ie, if you're working class person you're incapable of developing proper language skills.

Several articles have been written about the Republican war on language and how privileged politicans such as George Bush and George Allen, for instance, have affected these fake, down-home dialects replete with grammatical nightmares in order to make them seem like the "common man". I find the whole notion insulting as would my own parents, who grew up dirt poor but prided themselves on the quality of their language skills. This was despite the fact that neither one had more than a high school education.

It comes as no surprise that the literacy level in this country continues to deteriorate; I have friends in Europe who speak English as a second language better than some native speakers right here at home. There's really no excuse for that. I don't see how we on DU can mock some Freepers for misspellings such as "moran" for moron, or "hugh" for huge when we're unwilling to address some of our more appalling (not appauling) mistakes right here on this forum. It surely smacks of hypocrisy (not hippocracy, hipocracy or hypocracy).

So if I never see these mistakes again it will be too soon:

"I seen" (I came, I seen, I conquered?)
"shoe-in" rather than shoo-in
"ancy" for antsy
"shutter" for shudder
"loose" for lose
"less people" rather than "fewer people"

These are just a very few among some common mistakes here. There are times when I've felt like taping my fingers together to keep from blistering the keyboard in reply. Expecting basic command of the English language on a board dedicated to political debate is not "nitpicking". Presenting one's arguments in a literate and cogent fashion takes time and effort. To think that others here don't deserve even that is, IMHO, rude and inconsiderate. That's why a day doesn't go by when I don't pull out a dictionary or thesaurus to check my own writings. If I want to engage someone in a debate or discussion it seems the least I can do.

[Pithlet]

63. I'm not talking about general threads about grammar and spelling

And I don't have anything against educating people on correct grammar and spelling under the right circumstances. I do think they're important and it bothers me to see so many people with a lack of basic knowledge in those subjects. I personally cringe when I regularly see "your" when the sentence requires that it be "you're" for instance. I'm talking about personally attacking someone for their spelling and grammar mistakes during a disagreement. I think it's petty and is a last resort for those who've run out of arguments.

I will say that I think DU is above average overall when it comes to spelling and grammar. Message boards for non-political subjects tend to be much, much worse in that regard. But, my grammar and spelling aren't perfect, either. I tend to overuse commas, for example. I can't help myself.

[theHandpuppet]

84. I'm way too fond of commas, myself

I have some nasty habits that are hard to break but I never stop trying to improve. Thanks for the reminder about overindulgence in commas -- I need a jolt every once in a while. (The your - you're thing gets under my skin, too.) ;)

I did not participate in the thread that started this debate even though a number of my relatives were/are severely hearing impaired. My uncle was deaf and mute from birth yet never exhibited any of the problems with the written language apparently experienced by our hearing impaired newcomer.

I must also admit that I was under the impression that a love of READING is the best way to hone grammatical and spelling skills and that those skills do not hinge on an ability to hear the spoken word. The posts being debated come across (to me) as those of someone who does not read, not of someone who cannot hear. I do not mean that as an insult but as an observation only. I will leave the expertise on hearing and any connections to written language difficulties to others with more knowledge of the subject than me.

[SmokingJacket]

76. People who are obsessed with other people's grammar

are insecure about their own intelligence.

Writing well yourself is a far more effective advertisement for the powers of good English than being a scolding harpy.

I say this as a professional writer and a reformed grammar snob.

Not everyone here has had the benefit of a top-notch education, but I don't think that means they should be shamed out of posting here.

In general, the quality of the writing on DU is very, very good. And we all learn from each other, too.

[snooper2]

81. You missed the one I hate the most...

I guess it is a pet peeve, but when people say "Me and Glen went to the store" instead of "Glen and I went to the store", it just urks me to no end.

I think it is part of the me me me in this society bleeding into language.


Good post, and I agree with you 100%!

[mainegreen]

35. I presume its harder for him

beacause ASL is not really english?

[Mairead]

48. It's not only not really English, it's not even anything LIKE English

The only similarity is that both languages encode a lot of meaning in the order of the tokens (signs and expression in the case of ASL, word order in the case of English).

ASL like other sign languages is a conceptual language, completely different to non-gestural languages.

[Zodiak]

41. This post is true

It is a common characteristic of the deaf. After all, they do not have the luxury of knowing what "sounds" right. Our brains use hearing to feed back into our language centers.

[RayOfHope]

42. I agree. There was a state school for the deaf in my hometown

I worked in a drugstore. Many deaf students would come in to purchase things, and since I didn't sign we would write our conversations. Almost all the students seemed to have problems with grammar. I assume it's because ASL doesn't use many words that speaking people use.

[Gregory1230]

49. Criticize?

So are some of you criticize me because of my bad grammar?

[Mairead]

55. Some people are ignorant and criticise everyone who's non-standard

Ignore them.

[Brother Buzz]

82. Criticize? Nah. Hmmm, a suggestion, though...

Read, read, read, then read some more. Communicating on the internet is closer related to reading than anything else I can think off. Fiction, biographies, history...it doesn't matter what you read, but you will pick up syntax faster by reading then any other way I can think of. Just an idea, and I hope you don't misconstrue it as criticism.

[petronius]

56. I don't know any deaf people currently

but I do think that a lot of my knowledge of English comes from speaking/hearing it constantly. I have no idea if the other poster is a troll or not, but many responses in that thread is way over the top. If you think he's a troll then ignore him - no need for the mockery...

You may get jumped on for 'feeding the freeper', DB, but you're right to object to what's going on over there...(IMHO, of course).

[Gregory1230]

57. No I was not...

...grew up culturally Deaf. I was mainstream when I was high school, but teacher gave me very easy English. In fact, it was only 6th grade English during High School. Can you believe that? No, I am not learning disability.

[MuseRider]

59. I just read through

the thread in question. I have no clue about deaf people and their problems with grammar but it does make sense that it would be difficult for them. Whatever. If the poster is sincere I can't imagine him ever wanting to stay in a place where so many people who I know and respect treated him with such little respect. Really, that is a pretty sad thread.

[Scout1071]

60. I think it was the combo of low posts and poor grammar.

That usually means only one thing. But, there is an exception to every rule.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout1071]

67. Exactly.

[MuseRider]

68. Yes but

they discuss everything we do here. I have not gone over to look at what they are saying but really, if someone farts over here they are laughing about it over there within seconds.

May I say that apart from that particular thread in question that I am proud to belong to such a watchable group? Infinitely entertaining and educational. Always fun, never a dull moment for the people who can only watch because they do not have any ideas of their own.

Edit spell check is always a good thing to do

[Scout1071]

70. That's true, but my meter was going off.

I'm sorry, but the whole thread smelled like troll. I mean, come on. He got on and posted about being scared and running away from a big, bad freeper. Give me a break.

If said poster is really legit, I will be the first to apologize. I will also be the first to recommend some self-defense courses so that he can toughen up a bit.

Lou Ferrigno - a/k/a The Incredible Hulk is deaf too, but you'd sure as hell never see him running from a dumbass freeper.

[MuseRider]

72. Oh I know

it does seem unusual for a newbie and there have been so many trolls lately. I have not made up my mind either and it doesn't sound like DancingBear has either.

I have no doubts that if he is legit that you will be the first in line to apologize. You are just like that. :hug:

[Whoa_Nelly]

61. Thanks for making your points!

Deafness is one handicap that is much often discriminated against than any other. I know this. I am deaf. Mine is hereditary and has made its presence known as I age.

Because people can't see this handicap, it seems to make this a handicap that receives a lot more ridicule. I can't tell you the number of insensitive remarks I have received over the years and the "am pretending to talk but am mouthing words so I can tease you" actions by people who at most other times act as kind and compassionate friends. when these instances happen anymore, I simply look at these people and ask, "If I were blind, would you open the door for me? If I were in a wheelchair, would you give me an assist? But since I am deaf, and even with my hearing aids I still have difficulty digitally discerning voice input, you seem to think it's OK to ridicule a handicap that can't be outwardly seen." This usually makes them think, but have actually had a few respond, "Well, it's hard on ME when I have to sometimes repeat things to you." I respond, "Well, gee! Am sure then you understand how tough it is to be suddenly no longer included and completely disregarded during a conversation in which you were actively participating."

And so it goes, insensitivity to a hidden handicap tends to show me which people are worth knowing.

[yewberry]

65. "It's hard on me when I sometimes have to repeat things?"

Wow, just wow.

How many people have you crushed into a powder?
:hi:

[Whoa_Nelly]

75. A few

Some people just need a little more "ed-ju-muh-ca-shun" than other. :)

[qanda]

69. I just read the thread you are talking about

And regardless of whether the poster is for real or not, it has some of the rudest responses that I have ever read on DU. It makes me ashamed to think that there are people that cruel and judgmental on DU. Not to mention that it is against the rules to call a poster out. What if that poster really is hearing impaired? I'm just really sad that people on DU can be that rude.

[Carni]

71. I'm sorry I'm not buying the bill of goods that poster is selling

The *oh my a freeper almost hit me--I ran away* etc--nope/not buying it.

[DancingBear]

73. No one is asking you to

What we are discussing is "could and do deaf folks write in such a fashion?"

If he is what many supect, he will be outed in due time.

If not, we have behaved like those we mock.

Either way, there was/is no call for much of what has been said.

[Scout1071]

74. I'm not buying it for one second. The whole thing smells from

the get go.

[DancingBear]

77. What aren't you buying?

The fact that some deaf folks write like this (I know they do), or the fact that this poster is not who he claims ( a valid premise, at least at this point).

I'm trying to steer the conversation back to the deaf argument - guess I'm not doing too well. :)

[Gregory1230]

78. Good bye

I am leaving from DU unless they tell me "I am sorry".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4771683

[Whoa_Nelly]

80. How can you discern the abilities/disabilities through reading text posted?

As a retired SpEd teacher, I know first hand that children, (and for many this continues into adulthood), who are deaf do not receive the cues we hearing people are privileged to enjoy. Deaf people learn few, if any, nuances of speech. To translate thought into writing for some deaf people becomes an obstacle to being able to write coherently, especially if they are writing not for syntax, but from the actual connect they have in verbally expressing themselves.

I'm glad DancingBear has brought up this subject regarding that post. I know when I read it, my first thought was that the poster may be dyslexic. With dyslexia there is a disconnect from thought to written expression, and the dyslexic truly does not see that disconnect when they re-read what they have written as their brain returns to filling in the missing words, spellings and syntax.

on edit:
I, for one, welcome all who support democracy by joining DU, and are willing to share their convictions and experiences in this venue. It's not about discrimination, and it's all about creating a community that accepts we are all human.

[katinmn]

79. I agree. A few people on DU are overly critical of grammar

and spelling in general.

I cringe when I see that because as you said, people who are deaf, and people who have dyslexia or other disabilities are not deserving of the attacks.

I didn't see the freeper's post but I think that's secondary to the point of the OP.

[tblue37]

85. Hi, DancingBear!

I am progressively deafened and wear hearing aids. Because my hearing has deteriorated over my lifetime (it wasn't so bad when I was a child), I did learn to read and write well. (In fact, I teach college English and write articles for the Web on grammar and usage, essay-writing, understanding poetry, teaching, and many other subjects—including deafness.)

Please invite your brother-in-law to visit my "I'm Listening as Hard as I Can!" website:
http://www.deafnotdumb.homestead.com/index.html

On that site I post essays about coping with deafness in a society full of inconsiderate and sometimes rude “hearies.”

People who are deaf from infancy often do not have English as their first language. ASL (American Sign Language) is not just a signed version of English. (There is such a thing—and it is called Signed English.) ASL is a complete and separate language with its own vocabulary, syntax, and visually mediated inflections.

Translating into English from ASL can be very complicated for a person whose first language is ASL. It is even more complicated than translating into English from another written language, because the syntax and inflections in ASL are not in written form!

Also, reading can be difficult for congenitally deaf people, because learning to read depends to a large degree on sound recognition, which is not available to them. With early intervention, excellent teaching, and a lot of hard work on the part of the deaf person, reading can be learned, but it is very hard, and often the learning process is not optimally mediated because of inadequate teaching or because intervention came too late.

An excellent book by the editors of Deaf Life magazine, For Hearing People Only, provides a lot of useful information for people with normal hearing who would like to become less ignorant about the deaf and hard of hearing. One of the editors/writers is Linda Levitan, who was in graduate school with me. (Yes, she reads and writes beautifully, but her hearing loss, though significant, was not as bad in her early years as it became as she grew older.)

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