We need a Recall Amendment to the Constitution, with a Fascism clause

[Melodybe]

Of course for a recall to work we have to wrestle the voting machines and the national polling companies out of the hands of the religious right, but information is power and the more people that know about the voting machines the closer that reality will become.

But I was thinking about it and why can't we have a recall amendment? Not one like what happened to Gray Davis, where the majority of California voters didn't even vote, but one where a political party can not resort to using Nazi progoanda techniques.

Facism/Corporatism is a threat to democracy itself. Facism seeks an all encompassing combined power, in our case it is corporatism where corporations are taking all power away from the people, which if you have ever read Jefferson, then you know the founding fathers didn't want that for America.

One can argue that in a free country the people have a right to elect facists, but when the fascist are brainwashing people just so they can take away our rights and when they own the polling companies and have privatized voting, it is time to put our foot down and say you can't do that anymore.

So who's with me? Can we have a recall Amendment with a facism clause?

[blm]

1. I'll sign on to that.

.

[Ignacio Upton]

2. How could a national recall work?

Would people have to collect 15-16 million signatures from all 50 states? (which would be about 12% of the number of people who voted in 2004, which is based on California's recall in percentages.) I don't see how a national recall could work, although in theory it is a good idea.

[Melodybe]

6. We'd have to work on it for sure, but after Buscho

we have to make sure that evil fucktards like them can never get to this height of power again.

[silverweb]

3. Works for me.

Of course, actually getting it passed has a snowball's chance in hell.

We can't even get the ERA passed, and this country is supposed to be all about "liberty and justice for all."

:eyes:

[CityZen-X]

4. And The Cow Jumped Over The Moon!

do you really think that your premise will change things?
Think again, Read the book Che Guevara on Guerrilla Warfare.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Hear! Hear!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Would move-on.org take this on, and maybe the PFAW, as a petition started to get asdd this? But am wondering...I know that IF such a thing were to pass 2/3 majority in the Senate, and would also have to be ratified by 2/3 of the states, would there be a suit filed that took it to the SCOTUS for this to become an amendment to our constitution? Would there be a fair panel of SCJs to adjudicate this in making it law?

A few days ago, I was wondering about the same thing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4737623&mesg_id=4737623

And learned that as the Constitution stands now:
Q130. "I know the state of California recently did a recall election on their governor. Can recalls be done against any elected officials?"

A. The recallability of any state or local elected official is subject to the laws of the state or locality, so it is hard to give a general answer to that part of the question. The President and Vice President can only be removed via impeachment. The other elected federal officials are Senators and Representatives. The Constitution does not specify that they can be recalled, nor does it say that they cannot be. The courts have never ruled on the subject. So the question is unresolved. However, several things point to the unconstitutionality of recalls of federal officers. First, the terms of Senators and Representative are set to six and two years respectively; a recall would effective reduce the term. Second, the Supreme Court has said that Senators and Representatives cannot have term limits; a recall is akin to a term limit in its practical application. Lastly, each house of Congress has the power to expel members; if a member has committed acts that could lead to a recall, the acts could just as easily lead to expulsion. It is likely that a vote of no confidence from a state's electorate would go a long way in influencing an expulsion vote.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a7.html

[Melodybe]

8. With that in mind I think that congress critters should have term limits

[Whoa_Nelly]

13. Once again! Hear! Hear!

:applause: :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

So, how does this get started?

While I completely support Cindy and all who call for withdrawal of our troops, having what is being talked about here could lead to important and positive changes within our government, and hopefully no more pre-emptive greedy wars.

It could possibly be the open window that leads someone to open the door from the inside in welcoming back democracy.

[napi21]

7. NO, I think it would be a mistake. Look at what happened in Calif.

Enough people were unhappy with the way things were, so they organized a recall. Except, it's no better now!!!!

Think about how that would have been used when BC was Pres. They tried every other underhanded play in their deck and failed to remove him from office. Can you imagine how quickly it could have been done if they had the recall option?

Plus, I think it would just cause more Americans to NOT pay any attention to who they vote for. They'd just rationalize that, if they weren't happy with the choice, they'd just recall 'em!

Nope! Bad idea, I think.

[Melodybe]

9. Well the recall wouldn't be an easy thing to get

especially a national recall, but make it hard to get but possible if 70% of Americans agree.

[Cleita]

11. I don't believe the recall would have worked without a lot

of interference from the extreme right. Davis was recalled after having been elected to a second term. It was backroom deals that did it, not a bunch of unhappy campers.

[Whoa_Nelly]

16. I think the comparison of California

to an entire nation is not a fair comparison.

In looking at this past year-and-a-half, have personally listened to many who regret having voted for ChimpChump. And quite a few have stated they only voted for him (again) only because they absolutely did not believe Kerry would make any differnece...they saw him as so centrist as to be namby-pamby/wishy-washy; they didn't believe he had anything to offer. Have to say, this last prez election was the most pathetic and sad one have ever known.

[Cleita]

19. That's because the Rovian machine was working to

maneuver into position a weak candidate in Kerry. Then to make sure he didn't win, they swiftboated him and probably cheated on the election in some key states. Remember with these people, the ends justifies the means.

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. Yes, you are right...but

try explaining it to those who at the time, thought no one in the GOP were liars, or didn't care if that were so because Hey! Clinton lied! Some have had a rude awaking over the last year, and some have had outright epiphanies since Katrina.

[Cleita]

25. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the disastrous Katrina

will prove even too big for their spin machine and that it will be the catalyst that brings this whole cabal of ghouls down permanently.

[Cleita]

10. I dunno. The recall got us Arnie for governor and took

away the governor we had elected. The recall was used as a tool by the neo-cons. What they did was not what the intention of recall is. If we do have a fair election and elect another Democratic governor, I believe the same factions will recall again to install a Republican governor in California again.

I think we need to have an ammendment to outlaw any party that props up racists, homophobes and sexists. This would make the Republican Party and it's leaders today, illegal and unable to participate in politics.

I think any Party that condones homophobia, sexism and racism shouldn't be allowed to run candidates in any election.

[tx_dem41]

12. Nope...no thank you. With just a Fascism clause?!?

Please tell me you're kidding, especially with the Fascism clause bit! Why not include all "isms". The same recall amendment would be used against all Presidents.

[Melodybe]

14. When you have proof that a party is using Nazi propaganda techniques

such as bandwagon, repetition, and strawman to brainwash the masses, that should be good enough.

Prove that they are fascists and call them on it.

[tx_dem41]

15. Are you that desparate?

Have you just given up?!?

[Melodybe]

17. No not at all I am the eternal optimist, I think that in the future

to protect us from falling into facsist hands again we should start working on an amendment like this one.

With Chimpy in mind I hope that we can impeach his ass next year after we take back the house and the senate.

[tx_dem41]

What about all the other "isms" and "archys" that are antithetical...

to freedom?

[Melodybe]

20. Well communism and socialism are all about power to the people

like democracy, where as fascism, since it seeks a totalitiarian government, it is the complete opposite of democracy.

[tx_dem41]

28. In theory maybe....

but, some of us (but sadly ONLY some), live in a world of realism.

[Melodybe]

34. True

[tx_dem41]

35. Telling....very telling. n/t

[Cleita]

18. Have you read "Mein Kampf"?

This administration could have written it. Just update a few words and there you have a blueprint for a neo-Nazi America that is happening right in front of your eyes.

A good definition of facism. It was often said that Mussolini made the trains run on time. That wasn't true. What was true was everyone was afraid to complain about it so it seemed the trains were running on time. I think we have arrived. "What hurricane damage? Everything is fine and dandy. Now shut up!"

[Melodybe]

21. I haven't read Mein Kampf, but I've read plenty of Hitler speeches

and I know that they are eerily similar to what Chimp says every fucking day.

Also KKKarl Rove cites Mein Kampf as one of his inspirations.

[Cleita]

24. Thanks for that bit of information about Karl Rove.

I was suspicious that it was his playbook.

[tx_dem41]

26. Yes, I have.

I believe that one of the first things Hitler did was to "rig" Weimar Germany's Constitution to insure total power.

Soooo, is * the only one flirting with fascism, here?

[Melodybe]

29. Well his whole little Nazi party is flirting with fascism

if you look at their social policies.

But there are plenty of Dems *cough*Biden*cough*Feinstien*cough who are all about helping along the corporatist side of fascism.

[tx_dem41]

30. Fascism comes in all forms...

just look around...It's not hard...you don't even have to look past this thread.

[maine_raptor]

22. There already is one in the Constitution

It's called impeachment.

Just takes a little longer and a lot more effort.

Tho' it helps if the party that has the White House doesn't control Congress.

[Melodybe]

27. See, in times when they controll everything it would be nice to have a

recall amendment.

[maine_raptor]

31. Too Dangerous

Recall would be subject to temporary passions of the masses. Impeachment, that has to go through the House and then the Senate, would mean that there is a true consensus among the people whose wrath had not cooled while the process moves along.

[onenote]

32. would the recall only be allowed for "fascism"?

Seems a bit odd. Who's going to decide whether the official being recalled has engaged in "fascism"? Will the validity of the charge be decided before the recall or after? In California, you may or may not realize, all that's necessary is for the recall petition to state a reason and there is no challenge to the sufficiency of that reason. Also, will the recall be a straight recall, where the next person in line for the office moves up, or will it be combined with a new election? Will the recall be based on the electoral college approach or popular vote?

All in all, at the national level, recall would be an extraordinarily bad idea; after any close election, there immediately would be an effort by the losing side to recall the victor. Given the low threshhold for getting it on the ballot, recall elections would constantly be taking place, forcing elected officials to spend their time campaigning rather than governing. Democrats would be as vulnerable, if not moreso, to this kind of tyranny.

So no thanks.

onenote

[tx_dem41]

33. Ahhh...the cavalry has arrived.

thanks.

[Melodybe]

36. I still don't understand where the fascism clause would go wrong.