Need info. on why Clinton signed this.

[romantico]

http://www.fema.gov/library/eo12919.shtm

Freeper having a tizzy over this.Never heard of it before.This is the 1st time I ever heard about this.Can't imagine its a big deal or the Freepers would be spewing this non-stop.

[romantico]

1. No one has ever heard of this?

n/t?????

[madfloridian]

2. I found this article from NewsMax to give some context.

There are people here who know a lot about FEMA, as there have been some good discussions.

From this article they seem upset that Clinton was applying it to other emergencies than nuclear? Not sure.

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/10/10/232529

SNIP...."It was created to deal solely with nuclear disaster. But under the Clinton-Gore administration, the Federal Emergency Management Agency gets involved in everything from routine snow removal to landscaping golf courses.

And while FEMA may have a legitimate role to play in disaster relief, James Bovard, author of "Feeling Your Pain: The Explosion and Abuse of Power in the Clinton-Gore Years," says the agency spends so freely it should change its motto from "People Helping People" to "People Helping People to Other People's Money."

"Clinton has totally changed the focus of FEMA," Bovard told NewsMax.com last week. "There is no concern about the waste of money. Now it's simply the federal government feeling people's pain........"

If Clinton did it, it is wrong to them, even if it is right.

[Mountainman]

8. NewsMax is not creditable. You should not use it as a source.

NewsMax is a wing nut news service. It feeds the ignorant freeper types. It is mostly lies and half truths but wingnuts use it as a source for news. That's why their opinions are so f..ked up.


It is in the class as Fox News, Mike Weiner, Ann Coulter.

[madfloridian]

9. Excuse me, but I know that. I used it to show why they were upset.

I am well aware of News Max, but that is what they read. If you don't go to their sources, then you don't know their lines of thinking.

If you don't keep up with what they are saying and reading, you can not respond appropriately.

[sandnsea]

3. Oh a Marshall Law thingie

Here's a link http://members.tripod.com/~Sidlinger/ml.html

Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president and Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.

Therefore, Clinton was going to declare Marshall Law. And, it is something to be concerned about I guess, depending on who the President is. One of those who'd a thunk we'd have a creton like George Bush in the White House.

[romantico]

7. Didn't Jeb Bush

declare amrtical law on Sept.10th?

[scarletwoman]

11. It's MARTIAL law.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves. There is no such thing as "Marshall Law" -- unless maybe it's some guy's name... :P

from: Merriam-Webster Online -- http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

Main Entry: mar·tial
Pronunciation: 'mär-sh&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin martialis of Mars, from Mart-, Mars
Date: 14th century
1 : of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior
2 : relating to an army or to military life
3 : experienced in or inclined to war : WARLIKE

Main Entry: martial law
Function: noun
Date: 1568
1 : the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power
2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety

sw

[madfloridian]

4. I read they are way behind in helping disaster folks from Louisiana.

I can't find the article now. They appear to be running out of funds.

[Tinoire]

5. People have been upset about FEMA for years

All the horrors we're living today with the Patriot Act and other emergency measures were prepared years ago and the information available on "consiracy" sites that people easily dismissed.
FEMA was a big item. I'm not sure exactly why the freepers are in a tizzy not having the thread. Maybe they want to blame this all on Clinton? I don't know. Do you have a link?

One of the reasons it's a big deal is that FEMA had inspectors on the grounds of the WTC the night before the attacks, on Sept 10.

Dan Rather conducted an interview with Tom Kennedy, head of FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency), who clearly stated that FEMA had arrived on on-scene in NYC on "monday night" and start working "Tuesday morning".

Dan Rather: "Tom Kennedy, a rescue worker with the National Urban Search and Rescue which is part of FEMA..."

Tom Kennedy: "We are currently one of the first teams that was deployed to support the city of New York for this disaster. We arrived on late Monday night and went into action on Tuesday morning. And not until today did we get a full opportunity to work the entire site....."

http://www.thepowerhour.com/postings/fema.htm



The other probable reason they're in a tizzy is because the wheels to take away people's freedom were greased before Bush ever took office.
----

Another revealing piece of the puzzle was also recently revealed by Chuck Baldwin, writer. According to Baldwin, former President Bill Clinton was quoted while speaking to a CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) gathering:

Referring to President G. W. Bush's new Homeland Security department, former President Bill Clinton told a gathering of Council on Foreign Relations members last week, "We have been building this for a long time."

http://www.tpromo.com/gk/jun02/062602.htm

---
Homeland Security Act

President Bush signed the Homeland Security bill into law on November 25th, 2002.

The Bush administration has claimed that the Homeland Security department and the Homeland Security Act are reactions to the 9/11 attacks on America. In fact, CNN and other news agencies have repeatedly reported this.

<snip>

However, this is not the case. Plans for the Department of Homeland Security and the Homeland Security Act were underway as early as 1998. In 1998 the United States Commission on National Security/21st Century began working on a report called Road Map for National Security: Imperative for Change, which was issued January 31st 2001. This report called for the creation of a National Homeland Security Agency.

The Commission was actually put together by the Clinton administration and supported by Senator Lieberman. The Bush administration was initially against the idea of the Department of Homeland Security because it was part of the Clinton legacy. However, the initial report by the Commission has been significantly changed and added to by the Bush administration since 9/11.

The initial report outlining the National Homeland Security Agency can be found here:

http://www.nssg.gov/phaseIII.pdf


The Commission was strongly influenced by the Council on Foreign Relations; 9 of its 14 members were members of the CFR.

The Council on Foreign Relations is a semi-secret private organization with strict membership standards. The CFR was created in 1921, originally known as the Rockefeller Council on Foreign Relations. In the CFR's own words:

"If the Council as a body has stood for anything these 75 years, it has been for American internationalism based on American interests. If the Council has had influence during this period, it has derived from individual members taking the varied and often conflicting fare of Council meetings and publications to a wider American audience. From Foreign Affairs articles by W.E.B. DuBois and George F. Kennan to books by Henry A. Kissinger and Stanley Hoffmann, the Council's role has been to find the best minds and leaders, bring them together with other Council members, and provide forum and stage."

Most of the previous directors of the CIA have been members of the CFR including Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, William Colby, George Bush, William Webster, James Woolsey, John Deutsch, and William Casey.

<snip>

Bush cabinet members Condoleezza Rice, George Shultz, Robert Blackwill, Dick Cheney, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Dov Zakheim, Lewis Libby, and Robert Zoellick are also members of the CFR, as are other members of the Bush cabinet. It should be noted that members of the Clinton administration were also members of the CFR as well; in fact members of the CFR have been part of nearly every administration since WWII.

The CFR has bee accused of being everything from a Nazi organization to a Communist organization, and is typically associated with conspiracy theories about Anglo global domination and the New World Order. The CFR has had a strong influence on American foreign and domestic policy, but its impact on America is typically not exposed in the media, nor is it open to public scrutiny.

The official CFR website:

http://www.cfr.org/


Back to Homeland Security.

When the Homeland Security proposal was first put forward it was a 32 page document, and by the time it was finally signed into law by the President it was a 500 page document that calls for the creation of the largest federal agency in history with 170,000 employees. The proposed budget for the agency for 2003 is $37.45 billion. The agency will bring the tasks of 22 agencies under one umbrella.

The bill was voted on and passed by the House and Senate with little debate and not enough time to actually review the document.

The Homeland Security Act has changed over time, and some of the powers initially included in the Homeland Security bill have been taken out in part due to the protests of citizens and special interests groups such as the ACLU.

Items of interest in the Homeland Security Act:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/analysis/

By reporting information to the Department of Homeland Security corporations can have information classified as confidential, no longer accessible to the public
By reporting information to the Department of Homeland Security federal and state agencies can have information classified as confidential, no longer accessible to the public
The exact text of the bill can be found here (below is the analysis of the section):

http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/analysis/title2.html#204

"Section 204. Information voluntarily provided.

This section encourages the sharing of information with the Department of Homeland Security by the private sector, state and local governments, and individuals. It provides that information voluntarily provided by non-federal parties to the Department of Homeland Security that relates to infrastructure vulnerabilities or other vulnerabilities to terrorism is not subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act. Also, such information would not lose its protected character if forwarded by the Department of Homeland Security to other federal departments or agencies."

The ACLU's response to the section:

http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=10525&c=111

The Total Information Awareness program, lead by John Poindexter who was found guilty of illegal activity in the Iran/Contra contra hearings, designed to collect and analyze data on all US citizens including purchases, medical data, e-mail, internet activity, academic records, and records from all law enforcement offices. This program is currently on hold for further review. http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/01/29/tia_privacy/index_np.html
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/TIA/

The official TIA Office web site:

http://www.darpa.mil/iao/index.htm

Items that have been removed from the act due to public outcry:

The ability for the federal government to mandate vaccinations
Removal of legal responsibility of vaccination companies so that there would be no legal recourse for victims of death and injury resulting from vaccinations
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccination/vaccination-program-qa.asp?type=cat&cat=Smallpox+Program+Implementation&subCat1=Liability+Issues

The TIPS program, which was a program designed to encourage citizens to spy on their neighbors and co-workers
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11295&c=206


Tons of information available at
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/homeland_security_act.htm

[madfloridian]

6. Do a search on FEMA and shadow government.

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0802/081402nj1.htm

Here is one example. It is NOT just a Clinton thing, it has gone for a long time. It is a Bush thing, too.

SNIP......"During the Clinton administration, under FEMA's direction, the 1950s-vintage shadow-government bunkers were updated with computers, videoconferencing and improved telecommunications, new paint, and daybeds to replace sleeping cots, said former FEMA Director James Lee Witt in an interview.

"It was like doom and gloom in there. We redid the entire thing," Witt said, recalling one of the bunker locations, which was equipped with manual Underwood typewriters.

"We replaced the water," he added. "There was still the water Johnson had put in there, bottled water in glass bottles from Mountain Valley water, from Hot Springs, Ark.... It was unreal."

[Tinoire]

10. It's creepy - I started hearing about this stuff while Clinton was Pres

thanks to the internet and it spooked me. I seriously began to wonder about our entire government at that time.

I know, I know :tinfoilhat: but the evidence is unsettling. The more you read, the more you wonder, at least I do, who's REALLY running the show because they all seem to be working off the same script.

[scarletwoman]

12. Here's some reading for you...

The Rise of the National Security State: FEMA and the NSC
by Diana Reynolds

http://www.hackcanada.com/blackcrawl/patriot/national_emergency_04.txt

A STATE OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY

Since the advent of changes which took place during the Reagan
regime, America has been a presidential directive away from a
civil security state of emergency which, if ever enacted, could
create a constitutional crisis equal in severity to the American
Civil War.

A national state of emergency can be declared by a concurrent
resolution of both houses of Congress or by the President in the
case of natural disasters, nuclear war, a massive mobilization in
anticipation of an enemy attack on U.S. territory, or domestic
civil unrest.

A disturbing shift in policy occurred during the Reagan years
which could have profound consequences with respect to civil
liberties. Whereas civil defense planning in the past had focused
on disaster relief, the national security focus of the Reagan
administration meant implementing new ways to expand police powers
in times of nuclear war, domestic unrest, or civil disorder.

Bending under pressure brought by the Reagan Administration,
Congress gave the president and his executive agencies sweeping
emergency powers. This article will examine how those powers came
to be...

(more...)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The Establishment of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/FEMA_WC_JVW.html

(The following text comprises footnote 23 in Chapter 8 of The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars Against Dissent in the United States, by Ward Churchill & Jim Vander Wall, South End Press, updated edition 2002.)

<snip>

A development roughly corresponding with the emergence of the JTTF was the establishment of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) through Jimmy Carter's E.O. 12148, in 1979. This was an extension from the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency (FEPA), created in 1976, under Gerald Ford's E.O. 11921.

In 1980, with the advent of the Reagan administration, FEMA was used as the vehicle for creation of a quasi-secret, centralized "national emergency" entity, headed by a federal "emergency czar." Appointed into the latter position was Louis O. Giuffrida, the former national guard general and counterinsurgency enthusiast who had built up the California Specialized Training Institute (CSTI) and contributed heavily to the Garden Plot and Cable Splicer plans of the late 1960s and early '70s, before going on to serve as a government consultant during the repression of AIM and during the 1979 "counterterrorism conference" held in Puerto Rico, among other things (see Chapters 4 and 7).

While FEMA's charter called for planning and training activities concerning "natural disasters, nuclear war, the possibility of enemy attack on U.S. territory, and incidents involving domestic civil unrest," Giuffrida focused his agency's energy and resources entirely upon the last category. By January 1982, this emphasis had led to the preparation of a joint FEMA-Pentagon position paper, entitled "The Civil/Military Alliance in Emergency Management," which effectively voided provisions of the 1877 Posse Comitatus Act (prohibiting military intervention in domestic disturbances).

The plan was considerably reinforced by Reagan's top secret National Security Decision Directive (NSDD 26) during the spring of 1982, a pronouncement which appears to have formally interlocked FEMA, not only with the military but with the National Security Council (NSC).

(more...)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Fearing FEMA

http://www.guerrillanews.com/civil_liberties/doc1611.html

Most Americans know FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, as the helping hand that shows up after major natural disasters or large-scale terrorist attacks like 9/11, handing out blankets and dolling out loans like a friendly neighbor with a taxpayer-fattened bank account. But beginning in the early 90's, a small contingent of "conspiracy theorists" began to claim there was something much more sinister to the agency. They see FEMA as the nothing less than the stormtroopers of a New World Order, a dark force for oppression that hides behind its benevolent public image waiting to round up patriotic Americans who dare question the creation of a United Nations-controlled One World Government. Frequently, Jews are implicated as part of the scheme, as are assorted Rockefellers and Rothschilds.

The idea that such a seemingly benign agency could harbor a hidden agenda has been largely dismissed by the mainstream media as the paranoid rantings of people who wear tinfoil hats and spend way too much time indoors. But is there any substance to the black helicopter crowd's suspicions?

In fact, the agency does have a long history of totalitarian impulses. In an era of vanishing civil liberties, GNN believes now more than ever it is important to ask: Should we fear FEMA?

FEMA's precursor was the California Specialized Training Institute, a counter-terrorism training center started by then-Governor Ronald Reagan in 1971. Reagan inaugurated the idea of utilizing the military and law enforcement to combat dissent. He hired retired National Guard General Louis O. Giuffrida to design Operation Cable Splicer. The Cable Splicer plans were martial law proposals to legitimize the arrest and detention of anti-Vietnam war activists and other political dissidents. At the Army War College in 1970, Guiffrida had written a proposal that advocated the roundup and transfer to relocation camps of at least 21 million "American Negroes" in the event of a national uprising.

In 1979, under President Carter, FEMA was officially created with a single stroke of a pen by Executive Order 1-2148. However, Ronald Reagan elevated FEMA to intelligence agency status by giving the National Security Council authority over the planning for civil defense policy and security. Reagan created a senior-level interdepartmental board, the Emergency Mobilization Preparedness Board, or EMPB, a precursor to the cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security. The EMPB was charged with coordinating plans for civil security.

(more...)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Doing a google search using "FEMA police state" will net you LOTS of interesting reading -- of varying degrees of tinfoil, paranoia, and actual facts...

sw

[bluestateguy]

13. So if * declares martial law and cancells the 2004 election

it will be Clinton's fault?

That's that I call "preemptive spinning"

[jmowreader]

14. Clinton fixed FEMA

In August 1992, Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida. FEMA sent people, the Army sent people (the whole 10th Mountain Division, part of the 82nd and part of the 101st), we had Marine engineers, Air Force airlift support, and probably Navy guys though I never saw them. FEMA was lead agency.

My unit was alerted to deploy to Homestead. We ran Relief Center Number 1, right across the street from the biggest elementary school I ever saw. The morning of the deployment, we were bussed from Fort Drum to Griffiss AFB, flown to Homestead AFB and taken to a huge empty field. Someone had delivered a huge pile of General Purpose Medium tents, which we set to erecting. After a short time, we had a really nice tent city with lights, supply tents and everything. (Everything except a way to keep the ice we were issuing from melting.) One of our troops was a hotel manager before he enlisted, and he designed a really slick guest management system. We had it going, I'm here to tell ya.

The morning after we arrived, we got a busload of US Marshals and FEMA people. The FEMA folks stepped off the bus, found our colonel, reported in and asked one question: "Now what?" These people had absolutely no idea of what to do. FEMA at the time was so geared toward post-nuclear-holocaust situations that they were completely unprepared to handle a domestic disaster. We had to tell them okay, do this, then this, then the other. Eventually they caught on. (The real hero? Our unit's mess sergeant. He'd never even seen a hurricane before, but somehow he knew exactly what to do. He ran everything. The Army gave him a three-day pass when we got back; they should have given him the Legion of Merit. He saved a lot of people.)

I moved to the Carolinas in 1994. When Hurricane Floyd hit, FEMA was down there quick. They knew what to do, they did it well. To this I credit Clinton, for realizing that while it's good to be able to pull America back together after They Drop The Bomb, natural disasters need remediation too.

[madfloridian]

15. I am concerned about the Louisiana deal....can't find anything on it.

I don't think they have helped anyone there from TS Bill, or at least I think that is what it was.

I guess I am not using the right search terms. Said funds were needed.