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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:16 AM
Original message
Gov. Blanco Bans Red Cross from New Orleans
. Blast Blanco: Please tell me I am wrong...Blanco is behind this!
As much as I want to pin everything on *, I have to let my logical self look at the evidence on this bit of insanity!:

Gov. Blanco Bans Red Cross from New Orleans

The premier disaster relief organization in the world is being banned from New Orleans. Today the Red Cross announced that:
““* Access to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.”

Louisiana Gov Kathleen B. Blanco controls both the Louisiana National Guard and the state Homeland Security Department. Through both entities she is keeping the Red Cross out of this desperate city.

She furthermore announced in her news conference Friday night that she was immediately forming a new state based Louisiana Disaster Recovery Foundation and requesting that contributions be sent there for the relief effort.

What is going on here? Is she snapping under the pressure? Why would someone try to invent and rely on a new disaster relief agency it the middle of the nation’s worst natural disaster?


Please help me sort this out before I blast this to the media!
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. because the response from established agencies has been lacking
to put it mildly?
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I_Make_Mistakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Look at the churches (good ones in the area)
They are close by and have money transferred and can mobilize in a day. I don't care what your belief's are. There are good churches and they will respond in a quick second. They are in the area, and have access in many ways.
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tservo Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Why would people give to the Red Cross
when they aren't letting them in there? I hope this is just temporary.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. The Red Cross is outside the city, however
They have set up temporary placement centers in Baton Rouge and elsewhere.

"Shelters – 284 American Red Cross shelters are open in 9 states: Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Tennessee, Arkansas, Florida, Missouri and Georgia, with many more on standby."
http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease/0,1077,0_314_4509,00.html
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. I fully understand snapping. What I do not understand is her BLOCKING
the Red Cross from New Orleans and trying to reinvent the wheel in the middle ot the flood.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. If she is "snapping" its because they were left to sink
and she just saw their calvary fly in for a photoop and then move out.

Maybe she doesnt believe that the government is going to help them considering that FEMA is a bunch of fucking idiots and the boy man is a completely retard.


I will not get sucked into blaming the locals till there is 100% undeniable truth.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. she does bear blame
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 02:22 AM by imenja
but so does the federal govt. This is far beyond any state's resources.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. She told them that on 8/28... have you read the memo she sent the shrub?
She told them this was beyond the state's resources... She told them that it would be so devastating there was no way they could handle it.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. yes but clearly LA has very poor evacuation procedures
living in FLa, hurricane central, the difference between our procedures and theirs is astounding. No one person holds blame for this crisis, but Gov Blanco is horrible. Remember she pulled police away from search and rescuer to combat looters. Police are guarding grocery stores their. The woman is handling this very poorly. Just cause she's a Democrat doesn't give her a pass. Human life is more important than pathetic efforts to defend incompetent politicians.

The Fed govt bears great responsibility for this, but I see no earthly reason to defend the LA governor.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. and I see no earthly reason..
to not put the great burden on FEMA and our Federal Govt.

Im not defending her.. but I will not let her be a scape goat.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. This is not about scapegoating her. It is about stopping the blocking
of aid to the city.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
44. yeah, but she was hearing reports about women being yanked off
the streets and raped. if you're in her shoes you have to deal with that immediately.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. so you support her shoot to kill policy too?
You agree with her pulling officers away from search and rescue to protect property from looters? You agree with dispatching police to guard grocery stores while people are starving to death? A memo makes all that okay for you?
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. And what the hell would you do?
Im curious.. if you called out to the police and they didnt answer... just what would you do?

Why exactly do you think that this one woman is to blame?
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. no one started talking like that until the random shootings and rape
stories started coming in.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
40. I did see that memo..That is another reason that I am perplexed.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I do not want to blame her. It is just that I think that the decision to
keep the Red Cross out of New Orleans is bizarre. I will not send out anything that blames her, but. people are dying while relief efforts by many are being blocked. Certainly, FEMA is responsible for a lot of this, but this decision is in her chain of command.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Link?
need a link.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. second that! n/t
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Sure.. Red Cross web site:
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 02:43 AM by mom cat
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

On edit...sory, I am semi fried as we all are.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. If she feels the fed are just interfering, that might warrant forming
a separate state agency.

I don't know why the Red Cross et al. have been kept out, and would like to know.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. I could see her telling FEMA to F themselves, but this is the Red Cross.
They are doing a lot in the rest of the state, but they are justifying the decision to keep them and other rescue efforts out of NO so that people do not start coming back into the city. I can see that she does not want people to get the false impression that it would be OK to come back since the Red Cross is there. However, people need help as they are leaving, and for better or worse, the Red Cross has more experience in dealing with disasters thanany other group..at least any that could get there soom.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. There are several threads about this here
I know what you know, about the Red Cross at least. That is true. She isn't the head of state Homeland Security, however, someone else has that title, I remember him being interviewed. I don't know what she was told or what she was up to as far as the rest goes.



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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. no one is falling for GOP efforts to place blame on local government
not even the cable networks. The GOP can't spin this one. This is beyond their regular machinations. I wouldn't worry about writing to media outlets about this. Most of the broadcast media seems very critical of the federal and state governments both, as they should be.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
34. Who is "falling for GOP efforts to place blame on local government"?
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 02:39 AM by oasis
Perhaps some here at DU after the Blame Blanco Brigade has done the GOP's work for them.
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. What the hell is wrong with her?!????
I don't care what the exscuse is, Blanco needs to resign immediately! I call for her removal.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Step away from the Koolaid nt
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 02:23 AM by BeTheChange
not worth it.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. so if someone has a D after their name they can do anything?
sounds like you've drunk a few gallons of kool aid yourself. LA govt does bear a lot of responsibility for this crisis, as does the fed govt and the entire long term policy of avoiding spending of public works and programs. Just cause someone is a Democrat doesn't mean she is competent. If you don't hold leaders to a higher standard you might as well be a Bush supporter. It's all the same.
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Tyranny_R_US Donating Member (988 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Seems like no matter how much Blanco fucks up...
People here never hold her responsible, on the other side no matter how much Bush fucks up they never hold him responsible, If this "my guy" bullshit doesn't end we're all going to be fucked 6 ways to sunday by our representatives!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. How many of "our" representatives do you support?
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Tyranny_R_US Donating Member (988 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. All of the black caucus without a doubt
The others I'm not sure about...
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. I don't recall any black caucus member criticizing Blanco. Are they
sellouts or do they have their prorities in order by criticizing FEMA and Bush?
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Tyranny_R_US Donating Member (988 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. I really don't expect them to by critical by another democrat...
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 03:08 AM by Tyranny_R_US
but since they are critical of Bush that is good enough for me but make no mistake I wish they could be critical of her and her decisions, I just don't see or expect them to do it.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. I take it you don't question their leadership even though they don't find
fault with the way Blanco's handled the situation.
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Tyranny_R_US Donating Member (988 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:18 AM
Original message
Atleast they have been OPENLY critical of Bush...
perhaps you missed them on CSPAN, Blanco on the other hand praises him to gain political points but to answer your question quickly 'No' I don't fault them.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
39. I dont give a shit what she has after her name..
all Im saying is to call for resignation of the governor of LA is fucking ridiculous at this point.

All this fucking people are so outraged, they are so indignant.

This is a fucking tragedy, but lets get all of our shit straight first...

We are all fucking remiss. Every single one of us. Because we let the status quo happen. Now we run around like Chicken little screaming, off with their heads..

Give me a break.
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Tyranny_R_US Donating Member (988 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Hey BeTheChange ever taken your own advice?
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. And how is that?
Why the hell are you people so quick to place blame on the governer of LA?

I didnt realize I paid my taxes to the LA state govt. When a tragedy like this happens there are no fucking state lines. Those are my people, they are this nation's people. They are not just LA's people.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's gotta be a lie.........
The Red Cross would have used this defense a lot earlier in the week if it was true.

Another Red Cross defense I've heard floated on Friday was the "We were told not to set up in the city of NO so as not to discourage people from leaving the city" excuse.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. It's right on their website, read it yourself!
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Doesn't mean she made the call. That's political suicide.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I didn't say she did
Like I said below, it was the FEDs or Homeland Security handing out these orders.

I have no idea what she had to do with it, if anything. She isn't, as I said, the "head" of state Homeland Security, I can't look it up just now, but I remember a guy being interviewed who had the title.

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. My bad...I was referring back to the thread title.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. No prob n/t
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #25
51. I thought that this was the state of LA Homeland Security Dept.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. And it's not a "defense", it's an outrage!
Jesus, I want criminal charges brought over this, denying people food and water because they might stick around in the city too long? Is that good PR? They were told to do this by the fucking FEDS!
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
43. I've heard this too ALL day...
news reporters were saying similar things. On the one hand, RED CROSS is being kept out by homeland "so people will not flood INTO the area and so that those still there will NOT decide to stay. It's all just too weird.

NONE of it makes any sense. News reporters on the tube were saying there were people stranded on passable highway overpasses and being HELD there against their will. They are being prevented from even walking away to the west side and parts away from NOLA! WTF?

"We want to evacuate people, we want to hold people back from leaving" ???????????????????????????????????

I do NOT get what is going on down there but it's clearly a huge
Clusterfuck.

They let the reporters come and go but not the people. Go figure.
I don't know whose fault any of this is but it IS MESSED UP.
.......................................
Another thought I had is why, if they won't let RC in, don't they allow the GOODS, RC has, pass through via the military vehicles? Babies and animals aren't okay with MREs..

I hope we get the truth of this one day soon. I'm really exhausted from outrage and sadness.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. without a link, i don't believe it is her call
I thought it was the feds that were refusing entry.
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. That it is the Red Cross that's blocked is what is hard to believe
...haven't they and the Red Crescent amassed some considerable expertise in these matters over many years, worldwide?

Through wars and all sorts of crises, they've been there...why the hell is everyone else (VA cops, Chicago recue units, et al) being kept away, and the "evacuees" not really being rescued?
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. This is what it actually says:
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

<http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html>
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. Look, Blanco is not Giuliani.
The fact is that NO and Louisiana in general did NOT have the resources to even begin to cope with a disaster of this magnitude. It takes $$$ to mobilize enough buses, trains, aircraft to evacuate a population of that size -- in other words, federal assistance. It was requested. We've seen the response of our government to this tragedy. It's been pitiful.

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
46. Where did you get this?
This looks like a talking point memo.
BLAME BLANCO!
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
47. Chairman of the Red Cross - Bonnie Hunter - Political Donations
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
49. It's actually pretty illogical
The actual Red Cross statement says nothing about Gov. Blanco. You inferred it by yourself.

In fact, the Red Cross hasn't been banned at all. They are not being allowed in right now. The order applies to everyone, not just the Red Cross. The place is a disaster area, and is dangerous. And the Red Cross has plenty to do outside the city.

The Louisiana Disaster Recovery Foundation is not a relief agency in the same sense as Red Cross or the Salvation Army, it's a foundation that will be collecting and directing funds on an ongoing basis.

We're only in the fifth day of this crisis, and the Democratic instinct for self-destruction has already kicked in.

I've seen dozens of threads and messages tonight along the lines of "Let's hold Our Own responsible". It's the well-worn tactic of saying "Bush messed up ... but in fairness, so did Democrats". Which is exactly the Republican Talking Point. Oh, yes, we're about to hear all about the errors and omissions of every Democrat in the political food chain who even so much as visited N.O. And it's ALL we're going to hear until preliminary estimates of the number of dead come in.

NO ONE should be blamed until we know exactly what happened and when. The exception to this should be Bush. His four-day absence is inexcusable. But the actions of local officials will be more difficult to investigate, and investigate we will.

--p!
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neweurope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
52. Maybe she knows more than we? Forming a new foundation
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 03:04 AM by neweurope
seems absolutely crazy under these circumstances - unless one suspects that the Red Cross has fucked up in some way.


---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. They haven't had a chance to fuck up NO. They can't get in.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
53. Quarantine?
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #53
62. Except some people have gotten out.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. This information sounds very fishy to me...
Red Cross met with W this morning and this shit comes out after that??? Is Red Cross now inbedded with W??? Very fishy!
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. Red Cross ratted Bush out about prisoner abuse in Iraq. They are far
from perfect, but we don't have time to wait for perfection.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
56. I hope Blanco does not get reelected.
What respect I have for her has diminished. She bungled this up badly. Sure there is plenty of blame to pass around but are actions border on the irrational.

I hope some real Democrat takes her on for her seat and kick her behind from the Governor's Mansion. The people of Louisiana deserve better.


John
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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
58. in some way it
makes some sense to have them out...this way the National Guard can get the city under control and bring order to chaos...get the people out and clean things up...if the red cross stays there they people will not leave...

The Red Cross has done an outstanding job throughout this ordeal...they have done better the FEMA, Homeland Security, and Dim-son...
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. I think that what you stated IS the reasoning. I think that they were
rightly concerned about people wanting to stay at first...before the huricane struck. Those fears were real.
However that was before bodies were floating. People desparately want to leave now.
It is almost like they are still stuck on evacuation being the most urgent need (as well as the frustration about and probably the anger at the people who stayed). Evacuation was urgent, and still is, but the Red Cross could have fed peopld on the way out of town..These are not mutually exclusive goals.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
59. Someone is keeping the Red Cross out. I want to know where to direct pleas
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 03:27 AM by mom cat
to change this decision. Please cool down and think this through with each other. I am not blaming Blanco, but if she has made a bad decision, then I want ue to dierct ouw efforts into changing her mind if that is at all possible. The LA State National Guard is under her control. Blanco is not the administrator of the LA state Homeland Security Dept, but that administrator would answer directly to her. The Red Cross is not being allowed in by both of the above. I think that we need to flood her office with pleas to let in the Red Cross. Her contact info is :

Governor Blanco: Contact info:
Office of the Governor
Attn: Constituent Services
P.O. Box 94004
Baton Rouge, LA. 70804-9004

Telephone Numbers: 1-(866) 366-1121
(225) 342-0991 or 342-7015
Facsimile: (225) 342-7099

E-mail: first go to
http://www.gov.state.la.us/contact.asp
Then click the link that says:

Email the Governor

Please just ask her to please let in the Red Cross..that is all I am asking for. Just get in the help that might be able to help!
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