To those who say people should have evacuated...

[mondo joe]

... if the people had enough warning to evacuate, why wasn't that also enough warning for FEMA to get its act in gear?

If a poor elderly woman had the time to get herself out of NO why didn't FEMA have time to get supplies in place to move in when the hurricane subsided?

If a person without a car or income had time enough to find a ride to a place where he'd be homeless, why didn't the federal government have time to get the national guard prepped and ready to move in?

We all KNOW there were warnings of what could happen. My question is why are individuals expected to anticipate and act on the warnings, but not the people who are charged with addressing them?

[Liberal Veteran]

1. Amen. It take more than saying "get out" to prevent a disaster.

There needed to be a coordinated effort by the National Guard and every other public service capable of transporting people to get everyone out. There is no excuse that so many had to stay in the Superdome, much less their homes.

Of course, that's assuming there is enough guard and military transport equipment left in the US to do a proper evac.

[mondo joe]

3. How can the same people who say the residents knew they should get out

turn around and say Bush and FEMA couldn't have known what was coming?

[Liberal Veteran]

5. These are of course the same people who probably believe....

...Bush's line yesterday about "I don't think anybody anticipated the levees being breached."

Talk about bald face lie.

Hell, we were talking about days before the storm hit right here on DU and I've known about the problem for years.

It's not like it wasn't common knowledge.

[Telly Savalas]

9. How were we supposed to know that some Iraqis would be pissed

that we invaded their nation?

And you know what is really surprising to me? Giant ass tax cuts for the wealthy put a dent in government revenues resulting in a large budget defecit. Who expected that?

It's just one surprise after another.

[Telly Savalas]

7. Because Clinton got fellated in the White House!

Duh.

[SeekerofTruth]

2. Agree and disagree, maybe? I think

I agree that why wasn't FEMA ready. Also, why wasn't the New Orleans Emergency Management team ready as well?

However, I do expect individuals to act to protect themselves and not rely solely on the Federal government.

So, did I agree that the local and federal government screwed up and are screwing up? YES! But I believe individuals screwed up just as equally. And isn't the government made up of individuals.

round and round in circles I feel I am spinning. :crazy:

[mondo joe]

6. But if you look at the footage of those that didn't evacuate what do

you see?

Elderly, poor, disabled people. NO has a remarkably high percentage of people living in poverty - no car to get out, no $ to pay for anything once they get anywhere.

Should those who COULD evacuate do so? Yes. But that's not the case for MANY of the survivors.

Local resources are not NEARLY adequate to deal with this.

Why didn't FEMA do ANYTHING to prepare??

[Neshanic]

4. Tell it to "Big Eddie". He of that twisted..."should of left" thought.

[peacetalksforall]

8. The demographics of the city of NO are well known. Yes, where

were the buses, the ambulances, the water. Who wasn't on the phone making arrangements. So they demanded that people evacuate. The demographics show that many/most of these people were without ordinary means.

Little old lady has the key:
The little old lady on C-Span this morning implied that everyone should have three days worth of food and a saving account to be as prepared as she is (paraphrased). It seems she forgot to think about what she said.

However, on the other hand, I am sure that the three days worth of supplies that all these paycheck to paycheck people had stashed, may have floated to the top of the water and perhaps someone who was flooded out benefited from the stash (if they had a can-opener).

With all due contempt for the little old lady who is sitting pretty with her three day supply and her savings account that she started when she married 60+ years ago.

The new meaning of chrisitan-republican compassion - advice with critique from little old ladies who are sitting pretty.

[TahitiNut]

10. Excellent catch. This is the kind of critical thinking needed.

If they can send in 30,000 troops (with their own water, food, and shelter), why haven't they sent in the water, food, and shelter?

If the media has been on the ground and broadcasting since Day -1, then where the hell are the FEMA relief workers? Communications?

How can they tell 25,000 people to assemble at a central location and not have resources and support meet them there?

Does anyone think we'd have as much warning about a terrorist attack as we did with Katrina? Is this how FEMA would fail to repsond?

Only the Coast Guard has stepped up to the plate - rescuing over 3,000 people from rooftops. Why not let the Coast Guard command structure take over?

Why haven't they used the military's amphibious vehicles? The conditions are perfect for them.

When over 50% the police desert, it's a clear condemnation of corruption and incompetence at the very top. Those cops KNOW!

[Spike from MN]

11. On TV last night, I saw an interview with one lady that had

tried to get out before the storm hit. They had heard a hotel had shuttles leaving town so she went to the hotel with about 4 of 5 others only to have the hotel inform them that the shuttle was only for guests. She said hotel guests were loading their luggage in their own SUVs and getting ready to leave. Gee, since most people had their own vehicles, wouldn't that mean the shuttles had room? Oh wait. You're not a hotel guest. Sorry. Now fuck off.

The members of her group asked the various SUV owners to give them a ride out of town but no one would let them ride along. WTF?? They had plenty of room on their huge vehicles but not a goddamned one of them would give them a ride. Unfuckingreal. One of the hotel employees gave them the key to her apartment so that's where the group is now staying. Uh, stranded is a better word I guess.

And in case anyone thinks this was a racist thing, everyone in her group was white so apparently it was more of a class thing. The rich SUV owners didn't want anyone else in their precious vehicles. Two of the group were tourists from Scotland so I'm sure they're REAL impressed with the US. I don't blame them. I hope the whole group gets out of NO safely but what are the chances of that?

[SiouxJ]

12. This is the key rightwing talking point - blame the victims

I have heard it parroted by people I never expected would believe this crap. I have heard it from friends of mine who don't follow politics. Somehow, this mantra of blaming the victims has made its way to them and they shock me by saying things like, "to be honest, I can't feel sorry for them because they should have just left when told to do so." After I get over the shock of my beloved friends being so cold and uncaring, I begin to explain to them that the financially sound people all got out but the poorest of the poor (and this is probably the poorest part of America) could not do so. I ask them if they think it's just a coincidence that all we are seeing is poor black people suffering in the film footage from this disaster? Why are there no well-off white people lined up outside the evacuation centers? Exactly why is that? Do they really believe these people stayed because they are stupid? They stayed because they did not have the means to get out! I ask them why transportation was not furnished for these people when the government should have known that these people would not be able to get out on their own. Their usual reaction when confronted with these points is to stare back at me blinking. Once you point these things out, most, except the extremely selfish and arrogant, will realize you are right.

Then to top it all off, I inform them of the dismantling of the levee projects and the diverting of funds and the reaction is more looks of disbelief. We need to get out there among our friends and relatives and dispel the utterly selfish idea that the victims themselves are to blame for their situation. Don't let the rightwing media machine change the message. We all know they are selfish, heartless, irresponsible bastards, but we can't let them sway the opinions of our otherwise intelligent and caring friends. I realize when faced with something of this magnitude it's sometimes easier to say, "well, they were just stupid and that's why they are where they are," because it makes them feel less vulnerable, but I can't stand hearing that coming from the mouths of my otherwise caring friends, just because that's what the Shrub admin. wants everyone to believe.